| The House met at half-past Two o'clock. |
| PRAYERS. |
| 1 | City of Newcastle upon Tyne Bill [Lords],—The Order of the day being read, for the Third Reading of the City of Newcastle upon Tyne Bill [Lords]; |
| | Ordered, That the Bill be read the third time on Tuesday 18th April. |
| 2 | Greenham and Crookham Commons Bill,—The Order of the day being read, for the Second Reading of the Greenham and Crookham Commons Bill; |
| | Ordered, That the Bill be read a second time on Tuesday 18th April. |
| 3 | Utilities Bill,—Mr John McWilliam reported from the Standing Committee A, That it had gone through the Utilities Bill, and made Amendments thereunto, and had amended the Title as follows: |
| | A Bill to provide for the establishment and functions of the Gas and Electricity Markets Authority, the Gas and Electricity Consumer Council, the Telecommunications Authority and the Telecommunications Consumer Council; to amend the legislation regulating the telecommunications, gas and electricity industries; and for connected purposes. |
| | Bill, as amended in the Standing Committee, to be considered to-morrow; and to be printed [Bill 110]. |
| | Minutes of Proceedings of the Committee to be printed [No. 428]. |
| 4 | Second Standing Committee on Delegated Legislation,—Mr Eric Illsley reported from the Second Standing Committee on Delegated Legislation the draft Immigration (Leave to Enter and Remain) Order 2000. |
| | Minutes of Proceedings of the Committee to lie upon the Table. |
| 5 | Organ Transplants (Presumed Consent),—A Motion was made, and the Question being proposed, That leave be given to bring in a Bill to establish a national register of people who have not given their consent to transplant of their organs after death; to lay down procedures to be followed before an organ transplant takes place; and for connected purposes—(Dr Nick Palmer); |
| | And the Motion being opposed, after a brief explanatory statement from the Member who made the Motion and from a Member who opposed it, the Speaker put the Question pursuant to Standing Order No. 23 (Motions for leave to bring in bills and nomination of select committees at commencement of public business). |
| | |
| | Tellers for the Ayes, Dr Nick Palmer, Ms Jenny Jones: 113.
|
| | Tellers for the Noes, Mr Edward Leigh, Dr Julian Lewis: 23.
|
| | So the Question was agreed to. |
| | Ordered, That Dr Nick Palmer, Mr Vernon Coaker, Dr Evan Harris, Dr Howard Stoate, Mr Michael Jabez Foster, Jane Griffiths, Ms Jenny Jones, and Dr Ian Gibson do prepare and bring in the Bill. |
| 6 | Organ Transplants (Presumed Consent) Bill,—Dr Nick Palmer accordingly presented a Bill to establish a national register of people who have not given their consent to the transplant of their organs after death; to lay down procedures to be followed before an organ transplant takes place; and for connected purposes: And the same was read the first time; and ordered to be read a second time on Friday 21st July and to be printed [Bill 109]. |
| 7 | Local Government Bill [Lords],—The Order of the day being read, for the Second Reading of the Local Government Bill [Lords]; |
| | And a Motion being made, and the Question being proposed, That the Bill be now read a second time; |
| | An Amendment was proposed to the Question, in line 1, to leave out from the word 'That' to the end of the Question and add the words 'this House declines to give a Second Reading to the Local Government Bill [Lords] because it is a centralising measure which will have the effect of undermining local democracy, because it will put pressure on local councils to introduce structures which may not suit local needs and circumstances, which will tend to encourage and facilitate a culture of secrecy and lack of consultation, engender corruption, diminish the role of ordinary councillors, encourage the growth of a class of professional local politicians with large salaries, pensions and other fringe benefits, and place officers in a position of potential conflict of interest, because the arrangements in the Bill for the conduct of local referenda in respect of elected mayors are inadequate, because the new power to promote economic, social and environmental well-being, while welcome in principle, is insufficiently defined and overly subject to ministerial interference, because the powers being taken relating to the frequency of elections are too centralising in their nature, and because, although containing welcome provisions relating to the protection of school children from the promotion of homosexuality in schools and from bullying, and the conduct of local councillors and officers, it fails to provide for open, accountable and empowered local government with councils adopting structures that best suit local needs, including modernised and streamlined versions of the committee system', instead thereof.—(Mr Archie Norman.) |
| | And the Question being put, That the Amendment be made; |
| | |
| | Tellers for the Ayes, Mr Stephen Day, Mr Peter Atkinson: 130.
|
| | Tellers for the Noes, Mr David Jamieson, Mr Robert Ainsworth: 342.
|
| | So the Question was negatived. |
| | And the Main Question being put forthwith, pursuant to Standing Order No. 62 (Amendment on second or third reading):—it was agreed to. |
| | The Bill was accordingly read a second time and stood committed to a Standing Committee. |
| 8 | Business of the House,—A Motion was made, and the Question being put forthwith, pursuant to Standing Order No. 15 (Exempted business), That, at this day's sitting, the Motion on Standing Committee on Regional Affairs may be proceeded with, though opposed, until any hour—(Mr Graham Allen):—It was agreed to. |
| 9 | Local Government Bill [Lords] [Money],—Her Majesty's Recommendation having been signified to the proposed Motion relating to Local Government Bill [Lords] [Money]; |
| | A Motion was made, and the Question being put forthwith, pursuant to Standing Order No. 52 (Money resolutions and ways and means resolutions in connection with bills), That, for the purposes of any Act resulting from the Local Government Bill [Lords], it is expedient to authorise the payment out of money provided by Parliament of— |
| | (a) any expenditure incurred by the Secretary of State under the Act; and |
| | (b) any increase attributable to the Act in the sums payable out of money so provided under any other enactment—(Mr Graham Allen):—It was agreed to. |
| 10 | Welfare Reform and Pensions,—A Motion was made, and the Question being put forthwith, pursuant to Standing Order No. 118 (Standing Committees on Delegated Legislation), That the Report by the Secretary of State for Social Security under section 82 of the Welfare Reform and Pensions Act 1999, stating the changes in the law which the Secretary of State is proposing in the Child Support, Pensions and Social Security Bill by way of amendments to the Child Support Acts 1991 and 1995, the amount of the expenditure which the Secretary of State proposes to incur and the purposes for which he proposes to incur it (House of Commons Paper No. 270), which was laid before this House on 13th March, be approved—(Mr Graham Allen):—It was agreed to. |
| 11 | Supreme Court of England and Wales,—A Motion was made, and the Question being put forthwith, pursuant to Standing Order No. 118 (Standing Committees on Delegated Legislation), That the draft Access to Justice Act 1999 (Destination of Appeals) Order 2000, which was laid before this House on 22nd March, be approved—(Mr Graham Allen):—It was agreed to. |
| 12 | Local Government Finance,—A Motion was made, and the Question being put forthwith, pursuant to Standing Order No. 118 (Standing Committees on Delegated Legislation), That the Local Government Finance (England) Special Grant Report (No. 57) on the Promoting Independence: Prevention Grant for 2000/2001 (House of Commons Paper Number 338), which was laid before this House on 23rd March, be approved—(Mr Graham Allen):—It was agreed to. |
| 13 | Local Government Finance,—A Motion was made, and the Question being put forthwith, pursuant to Standing Order No. 118 (Standing Committees on Delegated Legislation), That the Local Government Finance (England) Special Grant Report (No. 56) on the Promoting Independence: Partnership Grant for 2000/2001 (House of Commons Paper Number 337), which was laid before this House on 23rd March, be approved—(Mr Graham Allen):—It was agreed to. |
| 14 | Local Government Finance,—A Motion was made, and the Question being put forthwith, pursuant to Standing Order No. 118 (Standing Committees on Delegated Legislation), That the Local Government Finance (England) Special Grant Report (No. 58) on the Promoting Independence: Carers Grant for 2000/2001 (House of Commons Paper Number 339), which was laid before this House on 23rd March, be approved—(Mr Graham Allen):—It was agreed to. |
| 15 | Standing Committee on Regional Affairs,—A Motion was made, and the Question being proposed, That Standing Order No. 117 shall be repealed, and that the following Standing Order shall be made: |
| | 117.—(1) There shall be a standing committee called the Standing Committee on Regional Affairs, which shall consider any matter relating to regional affairs in England which may be referred to it. |
| | (2) The Committee shall consist of thirteen Members representing English constituencies nominated by the Committee of Selection; and in nominating such Members, the Committee of Selection shall— |
| | (a) have regard to the qualifications of the Members nominated and to the composition of the House; and
|
| | (b) have power to discharge Members from time to time, and to appoint others in substitution.
|
| | (3) Any Member of the House representing an English constituency, though not nominated to the Committee, may take part in its proceedings, but may not make any Motion, vote or be counted in the quorum; provided that a Minister of the Crown who is a Member of this House but not nominated to the Committee may make a Motion as specified in paragraph (10) below. |
| | (4) The quorum of the Committee shall be three. |
| | (5) Paragraph (1) of Standing Order No. 88 (Meetings of standing committees) shall not apply to the Committee; except that the proviso to that paragraph shall apply to any sitting at Westminster. |
| | (6) A Motion may be made in the House by a Minister of the Crown to specify (or to vary) any or all of the following: |
| | (a) the matter or matters to be referred to the Committee;
|
| | (b) the period to be allotted to proceedings on such matters;
|
| | (c) when and where (within England) the Committee shall meet;
|
| | (d) the hours for the commencement and conclusion of any sitting;
|
| | (e) any days when the Committee shall meet at Westminster at Ten o'clock;
|
| | and such Motion may be moved at any time; and the Question thereon shall be put forthwith and may be decided at any hour, though opposed. |
| | (7) Where any order made under paragraph (6) above makes no provision for the period to be allotted to the proceedings on any matter or matters which have been referred to the Committee for consideration at a particular sitting, those proceedings shall be brought to a conclusion no later than three hours after their commencement. |
| | (8) At the commencement of business at any sitting of the Committee, the Chairman may permit Ministers of the Crown, being Members of the House, to make statements on any matter or matters referred to the Committee for consideration at that sitting, and may then permit members of the Committee to ask questions thereon. |
| | (9) No question on a statement by a Minister of the Crown shall be taken after the expiry of a period of one hour from the commencement of the first such statement, except that the Chairman may, at his discretion, allow such questions to be taken for a further period not exceeding half an hour. |
| | (10) The Committee shall, following any such statements and questions, consider each matter referred to it on a motion 'That the Committee has considered the matter'; the Chairman shall put the Question necessary to dispose of the proceedings on each matter at the time, or after the period, specified in accordance with paragraph (6) or paragraph (7) of this Order, and the Committee shall thereupon report to the House that it has considered the matter or matters without any further Question being put. |
| | (11) Any period allocated to the consideration of any matter or matters shall include any time spent on statements by Ministers of the Crown and questions thereon, except when otherwise provided by any Order of the House made in accordance with paragraph (6) above—(Margaret Beckett); |
| | An Amendment (a) was proposed to the Question, in line 6, to leave out the word 'thirteen' and to insert the word 'twenty-four' instead thereof.—(Mr Paul Tyler.) |
| | Question proposed, That the Amendment be made: |
| Wednesday 12th April 2000 |
| | —Amendment, by leave, withdrawn. |
| | Another Amendment (b) was proposed to the Question, in line 10, to leave out the words 'composition of the House' and insert the words 'party representation of Members of the House sitting for English constituencies' instead thereof.—(Mr Paul Tyler.) |
| | Question put, That the Amendment be made; |
| | |
| | Tellers for the Ayes, Mr Tom Brake, Mr Don Foster: 130.
|
| | Tellers for the Noes, Mr Don Touhig, Jim Dowd: 190.
|
| | So the Question was negatived. |
| | And the Main Question being put; |
| | |
| | Tellers for the Ayes, Mr Don Touhig, Jim Dowd: 187.
|
| | Tellers for the Noes, Mr Peter Atkinson, Mr Geoffrey Clifton-Brown: 130.
|
| | So the Question was agreed to. |
| | Ordered, That Standing Order No. 117 shall be repealed, and that the following Standing Order shall be made: |
| | 117.—(1) There shall be a standing committee called the Standing Committee on Regional Affairs, which shall consider any matter relating to regional affairs in England which may be referred to it. |
| | (2) The Committee shall consist of thirteen Members representing English constituencies nominated by the Committee of Selection; and in nominating such Members, the Committee of Selection shall— |
| | (a) have regard to the qualifications of the Members nominated and to the composition of the House; and
|
| | (b) have power to discharge Members from time to time, and to appoint others in substitution.
|
| | (3) Any Member of the House representing an English constituency, though not nominated to the Committee, may take part in its proceedings, but may not make any Motion, vote or be counted in the quorum; provided that a Minister of the Crown who is a Member of this House but not nominated to the Committee may make a Motion as specified in paragraph (10) below. |
| | (4) The quorum of the Committee shall be three. |
| | (5) Paragraph (1) of Standing Order No. 88 (Meetings of standing committees) shall not apply to the Committee; except that the proviso to that paragraph shall apply to any sitting at Westminster. |
| | (6) A Motion may be made in the House by a Minister of the Crown to specify (or to vary) any or all of the following: |
| | (a) the matter or matters to be referred to the Committee;
|
| | (b) the period to be allotted to proceedings on such matters;
|
| | (c) when and where (within England) the Committee shall meet;
|
| | (d) the hours for the commencement and conclusion of any sitting;
|
| | (e) any days when the Committee shall meet at Westminster at Ten o'clock;
|
| | and such Motion may be moved at any time; and the Question thereon shall be put forthwith and may be decided at any hour, though opposed. |
| | (7) Where any order made under paragraph (6) above makes no provision for the period to be allotted to the proceedings on any matter or matters which have been referred to the Committee for consideration at a particular sitting, those proceedings shall be brought to a conclusion no later than three hours after their commencement. |
| | (8) At the commencement of business at any sitting of the Committee, the Chairman may permit Ministers of the Crown, being Members of the House, to make statements on any matter or matters referred to the Committee for consideration at that sitting, and may then permit members of the Committee to ask questions thereon. |
| | (9) No question on a statement by a Minister of the Crown shall be taken after the expiry of a period of one hour from the commencement of the first such statement, except that the Chairman may, at his discretion, allow such questions to be taken for a further period not exceeding half an hour. |
| | (10) The Committee shall, following any such statements and questions, consider each matter referred to it on a motion 'That the Committee has considered the matter'; the Chairman shall put the Question necessary to dispose of the proceedings on each matter at the time, or after the period, specified in accordance with paragraph (6) or paragraph (7) of this Order, and the Committee shall thereupon report to the House that it has considered the matter or matters without any further Question being put. |
| | (11) Any period allocated to the consideration of any matter or matters shall include any time spent on statements by Ministers of the Crown and questions thereon, except when otherwise provided by any Order of the House made in accordance with paragraph (6) above. |
| 16 | Public Petitions,—A Public Petition from residents of Norwich for aid to be directed to education for child labourers was presented and read; and ordered to lie upon the Table and to be printed. |
| 17 | Adjournment,—A Motion was made, and the Question being proposed, That this House do now adjourn—(Mr David Jamieson); |
| | And the Motion having been made after Ten o'clock on Tuesday evening, and the Debate having continued for half an hour, the Deputy Speaker adjourned the House, without Question put, pursuant to the Standing Order, it being then five minutes to Two o'clock on Wednesday morning, till this day. |
| [Adjourned at 1.55 a.m. |
Betty Boothroyd
Speaker |
Madam Speaker will take the Chair at half-past Two o'clock.
|
| APPENDIX I |
| Papers presented or laid upon the Table: |
| 1 | Appropriations in Aid,—Treasury Minute, dated 11th April 2000, directing the application of certain receipts as appropriations in aid of the Votes specified in the Estimates for 2000-01 [by Act] [Mr Andrew Smith]. |
| 2 | Financial Reporting to Parliament,—Departmental Reports 2000: The Government's Expenditure Plans for 2000-2001 to 2001-2002 for the— |
| | (1) Department of the Environment, Transport and the Regions, Office of the Rail Regulator, Office of Water Services and Ordnance Survey [by Command] [Cm. 4604] [Mr Secretary Prescott]; |
| | (2) Department of Social Security [by Command] [Cm. 4614] [Mr Secretary Darling]; |
| | (3) Department of Trade and Industry, Export Credits Guarantee Department, Office of Fair Trading, Office of Telecommunications and Office of Gas and Electricity Markets [by Command] [Cm. 4611] [Mr Secretary Byers]; |
| | (4) Home Office and the Charity Commission [by Command] [Cm. 4605] [Mr Secretary Straw]; |
| | (5) Law Officers' Departments [by Command] [Cm. 4607] [Mr Solicitor General]; |
| | (6) Lord Chancellor's Departments [by Command] [Cm. 4606] [Mr David Lock]; |
| | (7) Northern Ireland Office [by Command] [Cm. 4621] [Mr Secretary Mandelson]; |
| | (8) Scotland Office [by Command] [Cm. 4619] [Mr Secretary Reid]; and |
| | (9) Wales Office [by Command] [Cm. 4620] [Mr Secretary Murphy]. |
| 3 | Law Commission,—Report of the Law Commission for 1999: Law for the 21st Century [by Act]; to be printed [No. 327] [Mr David Lock]. |
| 4 | National Audit,—Report by the Comptroller and Auditor General on Compensating Victims of Violent Crime [by Act]; to be printed [No. 398] [Clerk of the House]. |
| 5 | National Lottery,—Accounts of the National Lottery Distribution Fund for 1998-99, with the Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General thereon [by Act]; to be printed [No. 427] [Clerk of the House]. |
| 6 | Public Accounts,—Treasury Minute on the Fourth and Ninth Reports from the Committee of Public Accounts, Session 1999-2000 [Cm. 4695] [Mr Stephen Timms]. |
| 7 | Public Expenditure,—Paper, entitled Public Expenditure: Statistical Analyses 2000-01 [by Command] [Cm. 4601] [Mr Chancellor of the Exchequer]. |
| 8 | Supply Estimates, 2000-2001,—(1) Estimates (Classes I-XVIII) for 2000-2001 [by Command]; to be printed [No. 377] [Mr Stephen Timms]; |
| | (2) Estimates (Class XVIII, A, House of Commons) for 2000-2001 [by Command]; to be printed [No. 374] [The Speaker]; |
| | (3) Estimates (Class XVIII, B, Vote 1: National Audit Office) for 2000-2001 [by Command]; to be printed [No. 375] [Mr Robert Sheldon]; and |
| | (4) Estimates (Class XVIII, C, Vote 1: Electoral Commission) for 2000-2001 [by Command]; to be printed [No. 376] [Mr Secretary Straw]. |
| APPENDIX II |
| Standing Committees |
| Draft Immigration (Leave to Enter and Remain) Order 2000,—The Committee of Selection has discharged Mr Andrew Love from the Second Standing Committee on Delegated Legislation (nominated in respect of the draft Order): and nominated in substitution Mr Bill Etherington. |
| APPENDIX III |
| Reports from Select Committees |
| 1 | Agriculture,—(1) Third Special Report from the Agriculture Committee [Government Response to the Second Report from the Committee, on The Marketing of Milk], together with an Appendix; to be printed [No. 424]; |
| | (2) Minutes of Evidence taken before the Committee [Government Proposals for Organophosphate Sheep Dips]; to be printed [No. 425-i]; and |
| | (3) Memoranda laid before the Committee [Government Prosposals for Organophosphate Sheep Dips; Implications for UK Agriculture and EU Agricultural Policy of Trade Liberalisation and the WTO Round] |
| | |
| 2 | Education and Employment,—(1) Fourth Report from the Education and Employment Committee [Employability and Jobs: Is there a Jobs Gap?], together with Appendices to the Minutes of Evidence taken before the Committee; to be printed, with the Minutes of Proceedings of the Committee relating to the Report [No. 60]; |
| | (2) Memoranda laid before the Committee [Employability and Jobs: Is there a Jobs Gap?] |
| | |
| 3 | Environment, Transport and Regional Affairs,—Minutes of Evidence taken before the Environment Sub-Committee of the Environment, Transport and Regional Affairs Committee [The Planning Inspectorate and Public Inquiries]; to be printed [No. 364-iii] [Mr Andrew F. Bennett]. |
| 4 | Foreign Affairs,—Minutes of Evidence taken before the Foreign Affairs Committee [Weapons of Mass Destruction]; to be printed [No. 407-ii] [Mr Donald Anderson]. |
| 5 | Home Affairs,—Minutes of Evidence taken before the Home Affairs Committee [The Work of the Criminal Cases Review Commission]; to be printed [No. 429-i] [Mr Robin Corbett]. |
| 6 | International Development,—Minutes of Evidence taken before the International Development Committee [After Seattle—The World Trade Organisation and Developing Countries]; to be printed [No. 227-v] [Ann Clwyd]. |
| 7 | Statutory Instruments,—Sixteenth Report from the Joint Committee on Statutory Instruments, together with Memoranda laid before the Committee; to be printed [No. 47-xvi] [Mr David Tredinnick]. |
| 8 | Trade and Industry,—(1) Eighth Report from the Trade and Industry Committee [BMW, Rover and Longbridge], together with Minutes of Evidence taken before the Committee and Appendices to the Minutes of Evidence; to be printed, with the Minutes of Proceedings of the Committee relating to the Report [No. 383]; |
| | and (2) Minutes of Evidence taken before the Committee [UK Space Policy]; to be printed [No. 335—ii.] |
| | |
| 9 | Treasury,—Fifth Report from the Treasury Committee [The 2000 Budget] together with Appendices to the Minutes of Evidence taken before the Committee; to be printed with the Minutes of Proceedings of the Committee relating to the Report [No. 379] [Mr Giles Radice.] |
| 10 | Welsh Affairs,—(1) Third Special Report from the Welsh Affairs Committee [Responses of the Government, the National Assembly for Wales and the Audit Commission to the Sixth Report of the Committee, Session 1998-99, on Denbighshire County Council's Funding Legacy]; to be printed [No. 426] and |
| | (2) Minutes of Evidence taken before the Welsh Affairs Committee [Social Exclusion in Wales]; to be printed [No. 365-ii] |
| | |
|
| CORRIGENDUM |
| In the Votes and Proceedings of 10th April 2000, the first teller for the Noes in the first division should have been Mr David Wilshire (not Mr Edward Leigh), and the first teller for the Noes in the second division should have been Mr Edward Leigh (not Mr David Wilshire). |
