Votes and Proceedings

House of Commons

Session 2003 - 04
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House of Commons Votes and Proceedings
Wednesday 20th October 2004

The House met at half-past Eleven o'clock.

PRAYERS.

1    University of Wales, Cardiff Bill [Lords],—The Second Deputy Chairman of Ways and Means reported from the Committee on Unopposed Bills, That it had examined the allegations contained in the Preamble to the University of Wales, Cardiff Bill [Lords] and found the same to be true; and had gone through the Bill and had directed him to report the same, without Amendment.

Bill to be read the third time.

2    Fourth Standing Committee on Delegated Legislation,—Mr Win Griffiths reported from the Fourth Standing Committee on Delegated Legislation the Value Added Tax (Disclosure of Avoidance Schemes) (Designations) Order 2004 (S.I., 2004, No. 1933) and the Value Added Tax (Groups: eligibility) Order 2004 (S.I., 2004, No. 1931).
Minutes of Proceedings of the Committee to lie upon the Table.
3    Fifth Standing Committee on Delegated Legislation,—Mrs Irene Adams reported from the Fifth Standing Committee on Delegated Legislation the draft Local Authorities (Indemnities for Members and Officers) Order 2004.
Minutes of Proceedings of the Committee to lie upon the Table.
4    Sixth Standing Committee on Delegated Legislation,—Mr Eric Illsley reported from the Sixth Standing Committee on Delegated Legislation the draft Damages (Variation of Periodical Payments) Order 2004.
Minutes of Proceedings of the Committee to lie upon the Table.
5    European Standing Committee B,—Mr Nigel Beard reported from European Standing Committee B the following Resolution:
That the Committee takes note of European Union Document No. 4156/04 and Addendum 1, Financial Services Committee Report on Financial Integration; and supports the United Kingdom's five priorities for the future approach to financial services in the European Union. Report, together with Resolution, to lie upon the Table.
6    Historic Counties (Traffic Signs and Mapping),—Ordered, That leave be given to bring in a Bill to amend the law so as to require traffic authorities to cause traffic signs to be placed on or near roads for the purpose of indicating the location of historic county boundaries; to require the Ordnance Survey of Great Britain and Northern Ireland to mark the boundaries of the historic counties on its maps; and for connected purposes: And that Mr Adrian Flook, Mr John Randall, Sir Nicholas Winterton, Mr Ian Liddell-Grainger, Mr Nigel Evans, Mr David Wilshire and Mr David Amess do prepare and bring it in.

7    Historic Counties (Traffic Signs and Mapping) Bill,—Mr Adrian Flook accordingly presented a Bill to amend the law so as to require traffic authorities to cause traffic signs to be placed on or near roads for the purpose of indicating the location of historic county boundaries; to require the Ordnance Survey of Great Britain and Northern Ireland to mark the boundaries of the historic counties on its maps; and for connected purposes: And the same was read the first time; and ordered to be read a second time on Friday 5th November and to be printed [Bill 165].

8    Section 5 of the European Communities (Amendment) Act 1993,—A Motion was made, and the Question being put forthwith pursuant to Standing Order No. 118 (Standing Committees on Delegated Legislation), That this House takes note with approval of the Government's assessment as set out in Budget 2004 for the purposes of section 5 of the European Communities (Amendment) Act 1993—(Joan Ryan);
The House divided.
Tellers for the Ayes, Gillian Merron, Joan Ryan: 250.

Tellers for the Noes, Mr Peter Atkinson, Gregory Barker: 162.
So the Question was agreed to. Resolved, That this House takes note with approval of the Government's assessment as set out in Budget 2004 for the purposes of section 5 of the European Communities (Amendment) Act 1993.
9    Armed Forces (Pensions and Compensation) Bill (Programme) (No. 2),—A Motion was made, and the Question being put forthwith pursuant to Orders [28th June 2001 and 6th November 2003 (Programming of Bills)], That the following provisions shall apply to the Armed Forces (Pensions and Compensation) Bill for the purpose of supplementing the Order of 22nd January 2004.

Consideration of Lords Amendments
1. Proceedings on consideration of Lords Amendments shall (so far as not previously concluded) be brought to a conclusion three hours after their commencement at this day's sitting.
Subsequent stages
2. Any further Message from the Lords may be considered forthwith without any further Question being put. 3. The proceedings on any further Message from the Lords shall (so far as not previously concluded) be brought to a conclusion one hour after their commencement—(Paul Clark); The House divided.
Tellers for the Ayes, Joan Ryan, Gillian Merron: 260.

Tellers for the Noes, Mr Peter Atkinson, Gregory Barker: 166.
So the Question was agreed to.
10    Armed Forces (Pensions and Compensation) Bill,—The House, according to Order, proceeded to consider the Lords Amendments to the Armed Forces (Pensions and Compensation) Bill.
Lords Amendment No. 1. A Motion was made, and the Question being put, That this House disagrees with the Lords in their Amendment—(Mr Ivor Caplin);
The House divided.

Tellers for the Ayes, Mr Nick Ainger, Margaret Moran: 269.

Tellers for the Noes, Gregory Barker, Mr Peter Atkinson: 181.

So the Question was agreed to.

The Lords Amendment was accordingly disagreed to.

Lords Amendment No. 2.

An Amendment ((a)) was proposed to the Lords Amendment, in line 3, after the word 'widows', to insert the word 'or'.—(Mr Gerald Howarth.)

And the Question being put, That the Amendment be made to the Lords Amendment;

The House divided.

Tellers for the Ayes, Gregory Barker, Andrew Selous: 181.

Tellers for the Noes, Mr Nick Ainger, Margaret Moran: 270.

So the Question was negatived.

A Motion was made, and the Question being put, That this House disagrees with the Lords in their Amendment—(Mr Ivor Caplin);

The House divided.

Tellers for the Ayes, Mr Nick Ainger, Margaret Moran: 279.

Tellers for the Noes, Gregory Barker, Andrew Selous: 180.

So the Question was agreed to.

The Lords Amendment was accordingly disagreed to.

Lords Amendments Nos. 3 and 4 were agreed to.
Ordered, That a Committee be appointed to draw up Reasons to be assigned to the Lords for disagreeing to their Amendments Nos. 1 and 2. That Mrs Liz Blackman, Mr Colin Breed, Mr Ivor Caplin, Mr Gerald Howarth and Derek Twigg be members of the Committee. That Mr Ivor Caplin be the Chairman of the Committee. That three be the Quorum of the Committee. That the Committee do withdraw immediately.—(Derek Twigg.)
11    Adjournment (National Service Framework for Children, Young People and Maternity),—A Motion was made, and the Question being proposed, That this House do now adjourn—(Dr Stephen Ladyman);

And it being Seven o'clock, the Motion for the adjournment of the House lapsed, without Question put.

12    Armed Forces (Pensions and Compensation) Bill,—Mr Ivor Caplin reported from the Committee appointed to draw up Reasons to be assigned to the Lords for disagreeing to certain of their Amendments to the Armed Forces (Pensions and Compensation) Bill, That it had drawn up the following Reasons, which it had directed him to report to the House:

The Commons disagree to Lords Amendment No. 1 for the following Reason:

Because it could allow a claim to succeed even though the conditions for entitlement were probably not fulfilled.

The Commons disagree to Lords Amendment No. 2 for the following Reason:

Because it would involve a charge on public funds, and the Commons do not offer any further Reason, trusting that this Reason may be deemed sufficient.

The Reasons were agreed to.

Message to the Lords to communicate the said Reasons, with the Bill and Amendments.

13    Adjournment,—Resolved, That this House do now adjourn.—(Gillian Merron.)
And accordingly, the House, having continued to sit till twenty-five minutes past Seven o'clock, adjourned till to-morrow. [Adjourned at 7.25 p.m.
Michael J. Martin

Speaker

Mr Speaker will take the Chair at half-past Eleven o'clock.

APPENDIX I

Papers presented or laid upon the Table:

Other Papers:

1    Defence, Foreign Affairs, International Development and Trade and Industry,—Government Response to the First Joint Report from the Defence Committee, the Foreign Affairs Committee, the International Development Committee and the Trade and Industry Committee, Session 2003-04, on Strategic Export Controls [by Command] [Cm. 6357] [Mr Secretary Straw].

2    Sea Fisheries,—Solent European Marine Site (Prohibition of Method of Dredging) Order 2004 (S.I., 2004, No. 2696), dated 19th October 2004 [by Act], with an Explanatory Memorandum [by Command] [Secretary Margaret Beckett].

APPENDIX II

Standing Committees

1    Civil Partnership Bill [Lords] (Programming Sub-Committee),—The Speaker has appointed Andrew Selous as a member of the Programming Sub-Committee of Standing Committee D in respect of the Bill.

2    Employment Tribunals (Constitution and Rules of Procedure) Regulations 2004 (S.I., 2004, No. 1861):

(1) The Speaker has allocated the Regulations to the First Standing Committee on Delegated Legislation; and

(2) the Committee of Selection has nominated sixteen Members to serve on the Committee: Mr Richard Bacon, Gregory Barker, Mr Henry Bellingham, Mr Clive Betts, Malcolm Bruce, Brian Cotter, Mr Parmjit Dhanda, Mr Neil Gerrard, Jane Griffiths, Lynne Jones, Chris McCafferty, Rosemary McKenna, Lawrie Quinn, Mr Richard Shepherd, Mr Gerry Sutcliffe and Mr Tom Watson.

3    Value Added Tax (Disclosure of Avoidance Schemes) (Designations) Order 2004 (S.I., 2004, No. 1933) and the Value Added Tax (Groups: eligibility) Order 2004 (S.I., 2004, No. 1931),—The Committee of Selection has discharged John Cryer and Mr Terry Lewis from the Fourth Standing Committee on Delegated Legislation (nominated in respect of the Orders) and nominated in substitution Mr Jim Cousins and Jon Cruddas.

4    Draft Local Authorities (Indemnities for Members and Officers) Order 2004,—The Committee of Selection has discharged Mr John MacDougall from the Fifth Standing Committee on Delegated Legislation (nominated in respect of the draft Order) and nominated in substitution Alan Howarth.

European Standing Committees

5    European Union Document No. 12343/04, relating to the marketing of oilseed rape genetically modified for glyphosate tolerance, has been referred to European Standing Committee A.

6    European Union Document No. 11545/04 and Addenda 1-3, relating to credit institutions and investment firms, has been referred to European Standing Committee B.

APPENDIX III

Reports from Select Committees

1    Defence,—Minutes of Evidence taken before the Defence Committee [Future Capabilities]; to be printed [No. 1031-ii] [Bruce George].

2    Draft Mental Health Bill,—(1) Minutes of Evidence taken before the Joint Committee on the Draft Mental Health Bill; to be printed [No. 1127-ii]; and

(2) Memoranda laid before the Committee; to be printed [No. 1127-iii]

[Mr George Howarth].

3    Education and Skills,—Minutes of Evidence taken before the Education and Skills Committee [Prison Education]; to be printed [No. 825-iii] [Mr Barry Sheerman].

4    Environment, Food and Rural Affairs,—Minutes of Evidence taken before the Water Pricing Sub-Committee of the Environment, Food and Rural Affairs Committee [Water Pricing]; to be printed [No. 1186-i] [Mr Michael Jack].

5    Environmental Audit,—(1) Fifth Special Report from the Environmental Audit Committee [Government Response to the Tenth Report of the Committee, Session 2003-04, on Budget 2004 and Energy]; to be printed [No. 1183]; and

(2) Minutes of Evidence taken before the Committee [Hazardous Waste and Waste Policy]; to be printed [No. 1184-i]

[Mr Peter Ainsworth].

6    European Scrutiny,—(1) Thirty-third Report from the European Scrutiny Committee; to be printed, with the Minutes of Proceedings of the Committee relating to the Report [No. 42-xxxiii]; and

(2) Minutes of Evidence taken before the Committee [The CBI and European Scrutiny]; to be printed [No. 1185-i]

[Jimmy Hood].

7    Human Rights—(1) Twentieth Report from the Joint Committee on Human Rights [Scrutiny of Bills: Eighth Progress Report]; together with Appendices; to be printed, with the Minutes of Proceedings of the Committee relating to the Report [No. 1187];

(2) Twenty-first Report from the Committee [The International Covenant on Economic, Social and Cultural Rights]; together with Appendices to the Minutes of Evidence; to be printed, with the Minutes of Proceedings of the Committee relating to the Report [No. 1188]

[Jean Corston].

8    Modernisation of the House of Commons,—Minutes of Evidence taken before the Select Committee on Modernisation of the House of Commons [Sitting Hours]; to be printed [No. 892-iii] [Mr Peter Hain].

9    Northern Ireland Affairs,—(1) Sixth Report from the Northern Ireland Affairs Committee [Social Housing Provision in Northern Ireland], together with Appendices to the Minutes of Evidence taken before the Committee; to be printed, with the Minutes of Proceedings of the Committee relating to the Report [No. 493-I]; and

(2) Minutes of Evidence taken before the Committee [The functions of the Office of the Police Ombudsman for Northern Ireland]; to be printed [No. 956-ii]

[Mr Michael Mates].

10    Procedure,—Fifth Special Report from the Procedure Committee [Programming of Legislation: The Government's Response to the Committee's Fourth Report of Session 2003-04]; to be printed [No. 1169] [Sir Nicholas Winterton].

11    Science and Technology,—Minutes of Evidence taken before the Science and Technology Committee [The Work of the Economic and Social Research Council]; to be printed [No. 1122-i] [Dr Ian Gibson].

12    Welsh Affairs,—Minutes of Evidence taken before the Welsh Affairs Committee [Police Service, Crime and Anti-Social Behaviour in Wales]; to be printed [No. 1182-i] [Mr Martyn Jones].

13    Work and Pensions,—(1) Minutes of Evidence taken before the Work and Pensions Committee [Departmental Report]; to be printed [No. 1171]; and

(2) Third Special Report from the Committee [Government Response to the Fourth Report from the Work and Pensions Committee, Health and Safety]; to be printed [No. 1137]

[Sir Archy Kirkwood].

[W.H., No. 90]

Minutes of Proceedings of the Sitting in Westminster Hall

The sitting commenced at half-past Nine o'clock.
Adjournment,—Resolved, That the sitting be now adjourned.—(Derek Twigg.)
And accordingly the sitting was adjourned till to-morrow.

[Adjourned at 4.53 p.m.

Sir Alan Haselhurst

Deputy Speaker



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