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House of Commons
Session 1997-98
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House of Commons Votes and Proceedings
Wednesday 11th November 1998

The House met at half-past Nine o'clock.
PRAYERS.
1Adjournment,—A Motion was made, and the Question being proposed, That this House do now adjourn—(Mr David Hanson);
 
        And it being Two o'clock, the Motion for the adjournment of the House lapsed, without Question being put, pursuant to the Standing Order.
2Alliance & Leicester plc (Group Reorganisation) Bill [Lords],—The Order of the day being read, for the Second Reading of the Alliance & Leicester plc (Group Reorganisation) Bill [Lords];
 
        Ordered, That the Bill be read a second time on Tuesday 17th November.
3Alliance & Leicester plc (Group Reorganisation) Bill [Lords],—Ordered, That the promoters of the Alliance & Leicester plc (Group Reorganisation) Bill [Lords] shall have leave to suspend proceedings thereon in order to proceed with the Bill, if they think fit, in the next Session of Parliament, provided that the Agents for the Bill give notice to the Clerks in the Private Bill Office of their intention to suspend further proceedings not later than the day before the close of the present Session and that all Fees due on the Bill up to that date be paid;
 
        That, if the Bill is brought from the Lords in the next Session, the Agents for the Bill shall deposit in the Private Bill Office a declaration signed by them, stating that the Bill is the same, in every respect, as the Bill which was brought from the Lords in the present Session;
 
        That, as soon as a certificate by one of the Clerks in the Private Bill Office, that such a declaration has been so deposited, has been laid upon the Table of the House, the Bill shall be read the first and shall be ordered to be read a second time;
 
        That the Petition against the Bill presented in the present Session which stands referred to the Committee on the Bill shall stand referred to the Committee on the Bill in the next Session;
 
        That no Petitioners shall be heard before the Committee on the Bill, unless their Petition has been presented within the time limited within the present Session or deposited pursuant to paragraph (b) of Standing Order 126 relating to Private Business;
 
        That, in relation to the Bill, Standing Order 127 relating to Private Business shall have effect as if the words "under Standing Order 126 (Reference to committee of petitions against Bill)" were omitted;
 
        That no further Fees shall be charged in respect of any proceedings on the Bill in respect of which Fees have already been incurred during the present Session;
 
        That these Orders be Standing Orders of the House.—(The Second Deputy Chairman of Ways and Means.)
 
        Message to the Lords to acquaint them therewith.
4Fourth Standing Committee on Delegated Legislation,—Mr Andrew Welsh reported from the Fourth Standing Committee on Delegated Legislation the draft Legal Aid Advice and Assistance (Scope) (Amendment) Regulations 1998.
 
        Minutes of Proceedings of the Committee to lie upon the Table.
5Fifth Standing Committee on Delegated Legislation,—Mr Peter Atkinson reported from the Fifth Standing Committee on Delegated Legislation the draft Contracting Out (Functions in Relation to Insurance) Order 1998.
 
        Minutes of Proceedings of the Committee to lie upon the Table.
6European Standing Committee B,—Mr Roger Gale reported from European Standing Committee B the following Resolution:
 
        That the Committee takes note of European Community Documents Nos. 7046/98, Commission Communication on the Establishment of a new Financial Perspective for the period 2000-2006; 7221/98, Commission report on the implementation of the Interinstitutional Agreement of 29th October 1993 on budgetary discipline and improvement of the budgetary procedure together with proposals for renewal; 9302/98, the European Court of Auditors Special Report No. 6/98 on the Court's assessment of the system of resources based on VAT and GNP; and 11666/98, Commission report on the operation of the Own Resources system; and supports the Government's efforts to maintain budget discipline in the Community and to ensure the fair financing of the EU, reflecting Member States' ability to pay.
 
        Report, together with Resolution, to lie upon the Table.
7Message from the Lords,—A Message was brought from the Lords, as follows:
 
        The Lords have agreed to the Regional Development Agencies Bill, with Amendments; to which the Lords desire the concurrence of this House.
8Regional Development Agencies Bill,—Lords Amendments to the Regional Development Agencies Bill to be considered to-morrow and to be printed [Bill 259].
9Registration of Nannies,—Ordered, That leave be given to bring in a Bill to extend local authority registers under the Children Act 1989 to cover nannies who look after children on domestic premises: And that Mr Keith Vaz, Mr David Taylor, Mr Martin Salter, Jackie Ballard, Mrs Helen Brinton, Ms Ruth Kelly, Caroline Flint, Ms Julie Morgan, Ms Jenny Jones, Mr Andrew Dismore, Mr David Kidney and Mrs Anne Campbell do prepare and bring it in.
10Registration of Nannies Bill,—Mr Keith Vaz accordingly presented a Bill to extend local authority registers under the Children Act 1989 to cover nannies who look after children on domestic premises: And the same was read the first time; and ordered to be read a second time to-morrow and to be printed [Bill 258].
11Scotland Bill (Programme),—Ordered, That the Order [13th January] relating to the Scotland Bill (Programme) be supplemented as follows—
Lords Amendments
 
        1. Proceedings on Consideration of Lords Amendments shall be completed in two allotted days and shall, if not previously concluded, be brought to a conclusion three and a half hours after the commencement of proceedings on the Bill on the second allotted day.
 
        2.—(1) The Lords Amendments shall be considered in the following order, namely: Nos. 215 to 220, 1 to 87, 125 to 129, 237 to 278, 88 to 124, 130 to 214, 221 to 236 and 279 to 302.
 
        (2) The two allotted days shall be allotted in the manner shown in the Table set out below.
 
        (3) Each part of the proceedings shall, if not previously concluded, be brought to a conclusion at the expiry of the period (calculated from the commencement of proceedings on the Bill) specified in the second column of the Table.
TABLE
 Allotted dayLords AmendmentsAllotted period
 First dayNos. 215 to 220 and 1
Nos. 2 to 22
Nos. 23 to 52
Nos. 53 to 87
Nos. 125 to 129
Nos. 237 to 278
1 hour 30 minutes
2 hours
3 hours 30 minutes
4 hours
5 hours 30 minutes
6 hours 30 minutes
 Second dayNos. 88 to 124, 130 to 214, 221 to 236
and 279 to 302
3 hours 30 minutes
 
        3.—(1) This paragraph applies for the purpose of bringing any proceedings to a conclusion in accordance with paragraphs 1 and 2.
 
        (2) The Speaker shall first put forthwith any Question already proposed from the Chair and not yet decided.
 
        (3) If that Question is for the amendment of a Lords Amendment the Speaker shall then put forthwith—
 
          (a) the Question on any further amendment to the Lords Amendment moved by a Minister of the Crown, and
 
          (b) the Question on any Motion made by a Minister of the Crown, That this House agrees or disagrees with the Lords in the Amendment or (as the case may be) in the Amendment as amended.
 
        (4) The Speaker shall then designate such of the remaining Lords Amendments as appear to the Speaker to involve questions of Privilege.
 
        (5) The Speaker shall then put forthwith—
 
          (a) the Question on any Amendment moved by a Minister of the Crown to a Lords Amendment, and
 
          (b) the Question on any Motion made by a Minister of the Crown, That this House agrees or disagrees with the Lords in the Amendment or (as the case may be) in the Amendment as amended.
 
        (6) The Speaker shall then put forthwith the Question on any Motion made by a Minister of the Crown, That this House disagrees with the Lords in a Lords Amendment.
 
        (7) The Speaker shall then put forthwith with respect to the Lords Amendments designated by the Speaker which have not been disposed of the Question, That this House agrees with the Lords in those Amendments.
 
        (8) The Speaker shall then put forthwith the Question, That this House agrees with the Lords in all the remaining Lords Amendments.
 
        (9) As soon as the House has agreed or disagreed with the Lords in any of their Amendments, or disposed of an Amendment relevant to a Lords Amendment which has been disagreed to, the Speaker shall put forthwith a separate Question on any other Amendment which is moved by a Minister of the Crown and relevant to the Lords Amendment.
 
        (10) The Speaker shall put forthwith the Question on any Motion made by a Minister of the Crown for the appointment, nomination and quorum of a Committee to draw up Reasons and the appointment of its Chairman.
 
        (11) Proceedings under this paragraph shall not be interrupted under any Standing Order relating to the sittings of the House.
Supplemental
 
        4. A Committee appointed to draw up Reasons shall report before the conclusion of the sitting at which it is appointed.
 
        5. Standing Order No. 15(1) (Exempted business) shall apply to proceedings on Consideration of the Lords Amendments—
 
        (a) on the first allotted day, for any part of the period of six and a half hours after the commencement of proceedings on the Bill which falls after Ten o'clock, and
 
        (b) on the second allotted day, for any part of the period of three and a half hours after the commencement of proceedings on the Bill which falls after Ten o'clock.—(Mr Graham Allen.)
12Scotland Bill (Lords Amendments) [1st allotted day],—The House, according to Order, proceeded to consider the Lords Amendments to the Scotland Bill.
 
        Lords Amendment No. 215.
 
        A Motion was made, and the Question proposed, That this House disagrees with the Lords in the said Amendment—(Mr Secretary Dewar);
 
        And one and a half hours having elapsed since the start of proceedings on the Lords Amendments this day, the Deputy Speaker, pursuant to Order [this day], put the Question already proposed from the Chair.
 
        The House divided.
 
          Tellers for the Ayes, Jane Kennedy, Mr David Clelland: 303.
 
          Tellers for the Noes, Mr Stephen Day, Mr Nigel Waterson: 173.
 
        So the Question was agreed to.
 
        The Lords Amendment was accordingly disagreed to.
 
        The Deputy Speaker then put forthwith the remaining Questions necessary to dispose of the business required to be concluded at that hour.
 
        Lords Amendment Nos. 216 to 220 were disagreed to.
 
        Lords Amendment No. 1 was agreed to.
 
        Lords Amendments Nos. 2 to 31 were agreed to.
 
        Lords Amendment No. 32.
 
        A Motion was made, and the Question being put, That this House disagrees with the Lords in the said Amendment—(Mr Henry McLeish);
 
        The House divided.
 
          Tellers for the Ayes, Mr David Hanson, Mr Greg Pope: 350.
 
          Tellers for the Noes, Mr Stephen Day, Mr Tim Collins: 119.
 
        So the Question was agreed to.
 
        The Lords Amendment was accordingly disagreed to.
 
        Lords Amendments Nos. 33 and 34 were disagreed to.
 
        An Amendment ((a)) was made to the Bill, in lieu of Lords Amendments Nos. 32 to 34 disagreed to.
 
        Lords Amendments Nos. 35 to 87, and 125 to 127 were agreed to.
 
        Lords Amendments Nos. 128 and 129 were disagreed to.
 
        Amendments ((a), (b) and (c)) were made to the Bill in lieu of Lords Amendments Nos. 128 and 129 disagreed to.
 
        Lords Amendments Nos. 237 to 278 were agreed to.
 
        Ordered, That further consideration of the Lords Amendments be now adjourned.—(Mr Keith Hill.)
 
        Lords Amendments to be further considered to-morrow.
13Northern Ireland,—A Motion was made, and the Question being put forthwith, pursuant to Standing Order No. 118 (Standing Committees on Delegated Legislation), That the draft Local Elections (Northern Ireland) (Amendment) Order 1998, which was laid before this House on 19th October, be approved—(Mr Keith Hill):—It was agreed to.
14Representation of the People,—A Motion was made, and the Question being put forthwith, pursuant to Standing Order No. 118 (Standing Committees on Delegated Legislation), That the draft Representation of the People (Northern Ireland) (Amendment) Regulations 1998, which were laid before this House on 19th October, be approved—(Mr Keith Hill):—It was agreed to.
15Adjournment,—Resolved, That this House do now adjourn.—(Mr Keith Hill.)
 
        And accordingly the House, having continued to sit till seven minutes to Nine o'clock, adjourned till to-morrow.
[Adjourned at 8.53 p.m.
Betty Boothroyd
Speaker        

Madam Speaker will take the Chair at half-past Two o'clock.

APPENDIX I
Papers presented or laid upon the Table:
Papers subject to Affirmative Resolution:
1Broadcasting,—Draft Broadcasting (Restrictions on the Holding of Licences) (Amendment) Order 1998 [by Act] [Mr Secretary Smith].
Papers subject to Negative Resolution:
2Education,—Education (School Government) (Transition to New Framework) Regulations 1998 (S.I., 1998, No. 2763), dated 10th November 1998 [by Act] [Mr Secretary Blunkett].
3Environmental Protection,—Groundwater Regulations 1998 (S.I., 1998, No. 2746), dated 6th November 1998 [by Act] [Mr Secretary Prescott].
4Pesticides,—Plant Protection Products (Amendment) Regulations 1998 (S.I., 1998, No. 2760), dated 10th November 1998 [by Act] [Mr Nicholas Brown].
Other Papers:
5Ancient Monuments and Archaeological Areas,—Report of the Ancient Monuments Board for Wales for 1997-98 [by Act] [Mr Secretary Michael].
6Bank of England,—Treasury Minute, dated 11th November 1998, directing a raising of the limit on the amount of the Bank of England's fiduciary note issue [by Act] [Ms Patricia Hewitt].
7European Communities (No. 5, 1998),—Convention, done at Brussels on 29th November 1996, on the Accession of the Republic of Austria, the Republic of Finland and the Kingdom of Sweden to the Convention on the Law Applicable to Contractual Obligations opened for Signature in Rome on 19th June 1980, and to the First and Second Protocols on its Interpretation by the Court of Justice [by Command] [Cm. 4106] [Mr Secretary Cook].
APPENDIX II
Standing Committees
1Disability Discrimination (Exemption for Small Employers) Order 1998 (S.I., 1998, No. 2618):
 
        (1) The Speaker has allocated the Order to the First Standing Committee on Delegated Legislation, and has appointed Mr Roger Gale Chairman; and
 
        (2) the Committee of Selection has appointed sixteen Members to serve on the Committee, viz.: Mr Peter Bottomley, Mr Paul Burstow, Mr Harry Cohen, Ms Margaret Hodge, Mr David Jamieson, Mr David Kidney, Mr Martin Linton, Mr Tim Loughton, Mrs Theresa May, Laura Moffatt, Mr Mark Oaten, Mr Andrew Rowe, Joan Ryan, Mr Paul Truswell, Dr Alan Whitehead and Mr David Winnick.
2Draft Social Security (New Deal Pilot) Regulations 1998 and the draft Jobseeker's Allowance Amendment (New Deal) Regulations 1998:
 
        (1) The Speaker has allocated the draft Regulations to the Second Standing Committee on Delegated Legislation, and has appointed Mrs Ray Michie Chairman; and
 
        (2) the Committee of Selection has appointed sixteen Members to serve on the Committee, viz.: Mr Nigel Beard, Ms Judith Church, Mr Tim Collins, Yvette Cooper, Mr John Cummings, Mr Quentin Davies, Mrs Janet Dean, Mr Nigel Griffiths, Mr David Jamieson, Mr Paul Keetch, Miss Julie Kirkbride, Dr Julian Lewis, Mr Chris Pond, Joan Ryan, Mr Andrew Smith and Steve Webb.
3Draft Civil Procedure (Modification of Enactments) Order 1998:
 
        (1) The Speaker has allocated the draft Order to the Third Standing Committee on Delegated Legislation, and has appointed Mrs Marion Roe Chairman; and
 
        (2) the Committee of Selection has appointed sixteen Members to serve on the Committee, viz.: Mr Harry Barnes, Mr John Burnett, Mr Keith Darvill, Mr Brian H. Donohoe, Mr Edward Garnier, Mr Nick Hawkins, Mr Stephen Hesford, Mr Keith Hill, Mr Geoffrey Hoon, Mr Elfyn Llwyd, Mr David Lock, Mr John McDonnell, Ms Joan Ruddock, Mr David Ruffley, Mr Phil Sawford and Mr John M. Taylor.
4Social Security (Contributions) (Amendment) (No. 3) Regulations 1998 (S.I., 1998, No. 2211):
 
        (1) The Speaker has allocated the Regulations to the Fourth Standing Committee on Delegated Legislation, and has appointed Mrs Irene Adams Chairman; and
 
        (2) the Committee of Selection has appointed sixteen Members to serve on the Committee, viz.: Mr Julian Brazier, Dr Vincent Cable, Mr Edward Davey, Mr Howard Flight, Mr Paul Goggins, Mrs Teresa Gorman, Mr Ivan Henderson, Mr Kevin Hughes, Judy Mallaber, Mr Andrew Miller, Mr Eric Pickles, Mr Stephen Pound, Angela Smith, Ms Gisela Stuart, Mr Stephen Timms and Mr Phil Woolas.
5Draft Education (Grammar School Ballots) Regulations 1998:
 
        (1) The Speaker has allocated the draft Regulations to the Fifth Standing Committee on Delegated Legislation, and has appointed Mr Roger Gale Chairman; and
 
        (2) the Committee of Selection has appointed sixteen Members to serve on the Committee, viz.: Mr John Bercow, Mr Graham Brady, Mr Ivor Caplin, Mr Roger Casale, Mr Geraint Davies, Mrs Llin Golding, Mr Damian Green, Ms Beverley Hughes, Mr David Jamieson, Mr Paul Keetch, Estelle Morris, Dan Norris, Mr Jonathan R. Shaw, Rachel Squire, Mr Robert Syms and Mr Phil Willis.
6Draft Parliamentary Constituencies (England) (Miscellaneous Changes) Order 1998:
 
        (1) The Speaker has allocated the draft Order to the Sixth Standing Committee on Delegated Legislation, and has appointed Mr John McWilliam Chairman; and
 
        (2) the Committee of Selection has appointed sixteen Members to serve on the Committee, viz.: Mr Tom Brake, Mr David Chaytor, Mr Edward Davey, Mr Christopher Fraser, Mr John Greenway, Mr Mike Hall, Mr Nick Hawkins, Mr George Howarth, Mrs Tess Kingham, Mr David Lepper, Mr Gordon Marsden, Mr Austin Mitchell, Mr Kerry Pollard, Miss Geraldine Smith, Paddy Tipping and Mr Nigel Waterson.
7Social Security (Welfare to Work) Regulations 1998 (S.I., 1998, No. 2231):
 
        (1) The Speaker has allocated the Regulations to the Seventh Standing Committee on Delegated Legislation, and has appointed Mr Barry Jones Chairman; and
 
        (2) the Committee of Selection has appointed sixteen Members to serve on the Committee, viz.: Mrs Helen Brinton, Mr Paul Burstow, Mr Tony Clarke, Mr Tim Collins, Mr Paul Goggins, Jane Griffiths, Mr Kevin Hughes, Ms Melanie Johnson, Ms Jenny Jones, Mrs Jacqui Lait, Mr Edward Leigh, Dr Nick Palmer, Mr Eric Pickles, Mr Stephen Timms, Mr Desmond Turner and Steve Webb.
8Education (Infant Class Sizes) (England) Regulations 1998 (S.I., 1998, No. 1973):
 
        (1) The Speaker has allocated the Regulations to the Eighth Standing Committee on Delegated Legislation, and has appointed Mr Bowen Wells Chairman; and
 
        (2) the Committee of Selection has appointed sixteen Members to serve on the Committee, viz.: Caroline Flint, Mr Christopher Fraser, Mrs Linda Gilroy, Mr John Grogan, Mr John Hayes, Mr David Hinchliffe, Mr David Jamieson, Mr Martyn Jones, Mr Paul Keetch, Mr Tony McWalter, Mrs Theresa May, Estelle Morris, Rachel Squire, Mr Nick St. Aubyn, Dr George Turner and Mr Phil Willis.
9Environmental Assessment (Forestry) Regulations 1998 (S.I., 1998, No. 1731):
 
        (1) The Speaker has allocated the Regulations to the Ninth Standing Committee on Delegated Legislation, and has appointed Mr Peter Atkinson Chairman; and
 
        (2) the Committee of Selection has appointed sixteen Members to serve on the Committee, viz.: Norman Baker, Mr Dennis Canavan, Mr Malcolm Chisholm, Mr Tam Dalyell, Mr George Galloway, Mr Dominic Grieve, Mr Oliver Letwin, Mr Calum Macdonald, Mrs Anne McGuire, Mr Martin O'Neill, Mrs Sandra Osborne, Mr Laurence Robertson, Mr Ernie Ross, Mr Frank Roy, Mr Richard Shepherd and Sir Robert Smith.
10Cattle Database Regulations 1998 (S.I., 1998, No. 1796):
 
        (1) The Speaker has allocated the Regulations to the Tenth Standing Committee on Delegated Legislation, and has appointed Mr Joe Benton Chairman; and
 
        (2) the Committee of Selection has appointed sixteen Members to serve on the Committee, viz.: Ms Diane Abbott, Mr Clive Betts, Mrs Angela Browning, Mr Richard Burden, Mr Michael Colvin, Mr Huw Edwards, Mr Andrew George, Helen Jones, Mr Richard Livsey, Mr David Prior, Mr Allan Rogers, Mr Jeff Rooker, Mr Dennis Skinner, Mr Llew Smith, Mrs Caroline Spelman and Derek Wyatt.
European Standing Committees
11The Speaker appointed Mr Peter Atkinson Chairman of European Standing Committee A in respect of European Community Document No. 9597/98, relating to Agrimonetary Arrangements and the Introduction of the Euro.
12The Speaker appointed Mr John Butterfill Chairman of European Standing Committee B in respect of European Community Document No. 9690/98, relating to EC Development Aid to South Africa.
APPENDIX III
Reports from Select Committees
1Education and Employment,—Minutes of Evidence taken before the Education Sub-Committee of the Education and Employment Committee on 11th November [The work of OFSTED]; to be printed [No. 1127-ii] [Mr Malcolm Wicks].
2Environment, Transport and Regional Affairs,—(1) Minutes of Evidence taken before the Environment, Transport and Regional Affairs Committee on 11th November [Integrated Transport White Paper]; to be printed [No. 1141-i]; and
 
        (2) Minutes of Evidence taken before the Transport Sub-Committee of the Environment, Transport and Regional Affairs Committee on 11th November [Maritime and Coastguard Agency]; to be printed [No. 1149-i]
 
    [Mrs Gwyneth Dunwoody].
3European Legislation,—(1) Fortieth Report from the Select Committee on European Legislation; to be printed, with the Minutes of Proceedings of the Committee relating to the Report [No. 155-xl]; and
 
        (2) Appendix to the Minutes of Evidence taken before the European Legislation Committee on 8th July; to be printed [No. 1150]
 
    [Mr Jimmy Hood].
4Northern Ireland Affairs,—Fourth Report from the Northern Ireland Affairs Committee [Prison Service in Northern Ireland], together with Appendices to the Minutes of Evidence taken before the Committee; to be printed, with the Minutes of Proceedings of the Committee relating to the Report [No. 716] [Mr Peter Brooke].
5Science and Technology,—Minutes of Evidence taken before the Science and Technology Committee on 11th November [Engineering and Physical Sciences Based Innovation]; to be printed [No. 627-vii] ][Dr Michael Clark].



 
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