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Mrs. Virginia Bottomley : I welcome the hon. Gentleman's support for the rationalisation of the economic development power in the Bill. As he said, local government has been involved in economic development over the years but has had to use a wide range of measures to justify it. Even section 75 of the Weights and Measures Act 1986, I understand, can be used as a basis for setting up an advice system for consumers, and it is important to give the powers some coherence.
The hon. Gentleman said that much of the Bill is concerned with restrictions and limitations. We believe that that is appropriate. Because of these measures, the hon. Gentleman's constituency and those of many Opposition Front Benchers are likely to benefit more than
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my constituency or that of my right hon. Friend the Member for Suffolk, Coastal (Mr. Gummer). Consultations are taking place with local authorities on the precise form of the regulations. The hon. Gentleman believes that they should not prevent local authorities giving assistance in grants, loans and guarantees where those authorities do not have assisted area status or otherwise discriminate between authorities. We want to find a way of having regard to the criteria that face different local authority areas and ensuring that they can use the economic development power, especially through loans, grants and guarantees. This would be inappropriate in some of the more privileged areas.The amendments taken with amendment No. 248 relate to concern about the unnecessary and unhelpful restrictions on the scope of the regulations as they apply to other Government Departments and the European Community. I assure hon. Members that my Department keeps in close touch with all other Government Departments that have an interest in the use of the new power. In that way, we can ensure that the power that we are giving local authorities does not have an adverse effect on those activities in which they are involved at the request or on behalf of other Government Departments.
The amendments mention training. It is important to emphasise that the Government have a strong view about the crucial importance of training in establishing businesses. It is certainly not our intention that the regulations should inhibit that in any way. Amendment No. 254 provides that, if the regulations cause any difficulty, there will be a requirement to review them within two years. That is unnecessary. We shall continue to examine the effect of the regulations.
I hope that the hon. Member for Leeds, West (Mr. Battle) accepts that there are certain economic development measures that it is appropriate and right to target towards areas of greatest need. We wish to finalise those matters in collaboration and on the basis of discussion with local authority associations. It is important to ensure that those powers operate in conjunction with the provisions of other Government Departments and assistance from the European Community. We shall, of course, continue to examine the operation of these measures and review them accordingly. I hope, therefore, that the hon. Gentleman will not feel it necessary to press his amendment.
Mr. Battle : The Minister referred to other Government Departments-- that was an interesting analogy. In providing nationwide support under the enterprise initiative or the enterprise allowance scheme, the Government recognise that if they give an enabling power, they need not impose restrictions. Can I instead suggest that local authorities should determine whether to exercise that power? When talking about the economy, Ministers have referred to level playing fields. I see no reason why we cannot have a level playing field in determining the use of a local authority's economic power. We are still left with unspecified restrictions. The Government seem to be uncertain about clause 26. They are prepared to introduce it, but it is as though they are feeling their way with a piecemeal introduction because they are not willing to go the whole way in letting local authorities use the power.
This is not a special pleading for my own constituency. Leeds has lost its assisted area status ; it has gone to
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Bradford. The irony is that I am pleading on behalf of many unemployment black spots in the south, such as Thanet and Clacton, and areas such as Selby. These areas could well use the new start up and small business provision. It should be a nationwide power. It ought not to be restricted.We ought to divide the House and press the Government not to restrict the power. We should prefer it to be available to all local authorities. We cannot live in the hope that unspecified restrictions will be provided in the future, according to circumstances. Every local authority would then have to appeal directly to the Department, according to its own particular circumstances. Either it is a general power or it is not.
Mrs. Virginia Bottomley : The economic development power is an important power. Any question of restriction applies only to grants, loans and guarantees of borrowing to businesses run for profit. All other forms of assistance will be permissible everywhere. All inner urban areas, rural development areas and derelict land clearance areas will be included.
The Government are happy to consider other areas, but it is important to stress that consultations are still taking place to ensure that there are no arbitrary cut-offs. I repeat that it is the provision of financial assistance that will be restricted. Other forms of assistance--training, advice and guidance--will be available throughout the country.
Mr. Battle : Again the Minister has missed the point. I am not talking simply about ITEC training. The key point relates to loans and grants to small businesses. Of course the question is whether a business is being run at a profit. I hope that the Government are concerned that businesses should be run at a profit. It is not a charitable operation ; it has to do with economic development. I should have thought that the Government would be surprised that we are pressing the issue, because we agree with them on that point. However, the Government say that they intend to restrict the power in the case of of some authorities but not in the case of others. The question has nothing to do with the amount of money. It is simply whether any local authority in Britain can exercise that power. I am still not happy with the Minister's reply. Therefore, I shall press the amendment to a Division.
Question put, That the amendment be made :--
The House divided : Ayes 49, Noes 154.
Division No. 238] [11.42 pm
AYES
Abbott, Ms Diane
Banks, Tony (Newham NW)
Barnes, Harry (Derbyshire NE)
Battle, John
Beith, A. J.
Bermingham, Gerald
Blunkett, David
Brown, Nicholas (Newcastle E)
Clay, Bob
Cohen, Harry
Corbett, Robin
Crowther, Stan
Cryer, Bob
Cunliffe, Lawrence
Davis, Terry (B'ham Hodge H'l)
Dixon, Don
Foster, Derek
Golding, Mrs Llin
Howarth, George (Knowsley N)
Howells, Dr. Kim (Pontypridd)
Illsley, Eric
Ingram, Adam
Kennedy, Charles
Lewis, Terry
Livsey, Richard
Lofthouse, Geoffrey
Loyden, Eddie
McAllion, John
Maxton, John
Meale, Alan
Michael, Alun
Morgan, Rhodri
Murphy, Paul
Nellist, Dave
O'Brien, William
Patchett, Terry
Pike, Peter L.
Prescott, John
Robertson, George
Skinner, Dennis
Column 834
Smith, C. (Isl'ton & F'bury)Smith, J. P. (Vale of Glam)
Soley, Clive
Spearing, Nigel
Taylor, Matthew (Truro)
Wallace, James
Welsh, Andrew (Angus E)
Welsh, Michael (Doncaster N)
Wise, Mrs Audrey
Tellers for the Ayes :
Mr. Frank Haynes and
Mr. Allen McKay
NOES
Aitken, Jonathan
Alison, Rt Hon Michael
Amess, David
Amos, Alan
Arbuthnot, James
Arnold, Jacques (Gravesham)
Ashby, David
Atkinson, David
Baker, Nicholas (Dorset N)
Baldry, Tony
Bendall, Vivian
Bennett, Nicholas (Pembroke)
Bevan, David Gilroy
Boscawen, Hon Robert
Boswell, Tim
Bottomley, Peter
Bottomley, Mrs Virginia
Bowden, Gerald (Dulwich)
Brown, Michael (Brigg & Cl't's)
Burns, Simon
Carlisle, John, (Luton N)
Carrington, Matthew
Carttiss, Michael
Chapman, Sydney
Chope, Christopher
Clark, Dr Michael (Rochford)
Clarke, Rt Hon K. (Rushcliffe)
Conway, Derek
Coombs, Anthony (Wyre F'rest)
Coombs, Simon (Swindon)
Cope, Rt Hon John
Couchman, James
Currie, Mrs Edwina
Davies, Q. (Stamf'd & Spald'g)
Davis, David (Boothferry)
Day, Stephen
Douglas-Hamilton, Lord James
Durant, Tony
Emery, Sir Peter
Fallon, Michael
Favell, Tony
Fishburn, John Dudley
Forman, Nigel
Forsyth, Michael (Stirling)
Forth, Eric
Franks, Cecil
Freeman, Roger
French, Douglas
Gale, Roger
Garel-Jones, Tristan
Gill, Christopher
Goodhart, Sir Philip
Greenway, John (Ryedale)
Gregory, Conal
Griffiths, Sir Eldon (Bury St E')
Griffiths, Peter (Portsmouth N)
Grist, Ian
Gummer, Rt Hon John Selwyn
Hague, William
Hamilton, Neil (Tatton)
Hargreaves, A. (B'ham H'll Gr')
Harris, David
Hayes, Jerry
Heathcoat-Amory, David
Heddle, John
Hicks, Mrs Maureen (Wolv' NE)
Hind, Kenneth
Hogg, Hon Douglas (Gr'th'm)
Howarth, Alan (Strat'd-on-A)
Hughes, Robert G. (Harrow W)
Hunt, David (Wirral W)
Irvine, Michael
Jack, Michael
Jackson, Robert
Janman, Tim
Jessel, Toby
Jones, Gwilym (Cardiff N)
Jones, Robert B (Herts W)
Knight, Greg (Derby North)
Lightbown, David
Lilley, Peter
Lord, Michael
MacGregor, Rt Hon John
Maclean, David
McLoughlin, Patrick
Maples, John
Miller, Sir Hal
Mitchell, Andrew (Gedling)
Mitchell, Sir David
Moss, Malcolm
Moynihan, Hon Colin
Needham, Richard
Nicholls, Patrick
Nicholson, David (Taunton)
Nicholson, Emma (Devon West)
Norris, Steve
Paice, James
Patnick, Irvine
Patten, Chris (Bath)
Pawsey, James
Peacock, Mrs Elizabeth
Porter, Barry (Wirral S)
Porter, David (Waveney)
Powell, William (Corby)
Raffan, Keith
Redwood, John
Renton, Tim
Rhodes James, Robert
Riddick, Graham
Ridley, Rt Hon Nicholas
Ridsdale, Sir Julian
Roberts, Wyn (Conwy)
Rowe, Andrew
Sackville, Hon Tom
Shaw, David (Dover)
Shaw, Sir Giles (Pudsey)
Shephard, Mrs G. (Norfolk SW)
Shepherd, Colin (Hereford)
Shepherd, Richard (Aldridge)
Skeet, Sir Trevor
Smith, Sir Dudley (Warwick)
Smith, Tim (Beaconsfield)
Soames, Hon Nicholas
Stanbrook, Ivor
Stanley, Rt Hon Sir John
Stern, Michael
Stevens, Lewis
Stewart, Andy (Sherwood)
Stradling Thomas, Sir John
Summerson, Hugo
Taylor, Ian (Esher)
Taylor, Teddy (S'end E)
Temple-Morris, Peter
Thompson, D. (Calder Valley)
Thompson, Patrick (Norwich N)
Thurnham, Peter
Townend, John (Bridlington)
Tracey, Richard
Trippier, David
Twinn, Dr Ian
Viggers, Peter
Waddington, Rt Hon David
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