| Previous Section | Home Page |
Column 112
hon. Member for Belfast, East (Mr. Robinson). The first relates to the Castlereagh road roundabout. There is serious difficulty in emerging from the Casaeldona estate on to the Knockbreda dual carriageway. We have been told that the difficulty cannot be overcome until the Castlereagh road roundabout has been improved. I hope that this, too, will be given priority. Then there is the Saintfield road- Knockbreda dual carriageway junction. Here, too, there is chaos in the early morning and in the late evening. I hope that the proposed scheme, which we have examined and which we welcome, will be given the priority that it deserves.On page 34 one sees a great increase in expenditure. Many schemes are mentioned, but I draw the Minister's attention particularly to the Castle Court office block. Originally the cost was estimated at £7.5 million, but today the estimate is almost £16 million--an increase of more than 100 per cent. We deserve an explanation for that dramatic increase. It is unbelievable. I happen to be involved in a scheme in Royal Avenue near Castle Court, and in this regard I declare an interest. If my consultants came back and told me that the cost would be 100 per cent. more than they had originally said, I should not be standing here. There is something very wrong--unless, in the meantime, the scheme has been doubled in size. Clearly, we need an inquiry and an explanation for this dramatic increase. Education is dealt with on page 40. I welcome the reference to the extension of Armagh Royal school, on whose board of governors I serve. In that case, the original estimate was £3,873,000, and the figure is now £3,883,000. That is very good estimating. I hope that the historic grant, which has been so slow in coming, will be given some attention and that the school will receive those funds as soon as possible.
On page 43 there is reference to expenditure on the two universities in Northern Ireland. These will now be the only universities in the United Kingdom whose students do not have to pay the poll tax. That being the case, we expect an increased number of students from Scotland, England and Wales. That will be good for university life in Northern Ireland. I hope that the youth of Great Britain who flee to Northern Ireland from the poll tax will find good facilities. I hope that the Government will provide more funds for expansion of the universities in Belfast and Coleraine.
Finally, I refer to the celebrations that we hope to have this year. I refer not to the tercentenary of the battle of the Boyne, though the present Government owe their existence to the victory at that battle, but to the bicentenary of Armagh observatory. I am glad that the observatory is mentioned. This is an important year for the observatory and I hope that the Government will be liberal in their support.
On page 10 of the draft order, we find that it will cost us £123, 000 this year to maintain the devolved Northern Ireland Assembly, which collapsed because of the imposition of the Anglo-Irish Agreement. Consideration should be given to greater public use of the parliamentary buildings at Stormont. I know that there would be security problems in doing so, but there are security problems in the Palace of Westminster, too. There must be greater scope to hold functions and meetings at Stormont, to earn some money for the state and to give the Northern Ireland people the right of access to a building which is rightfully theirs.
Column 113
Rev. Ian Paisley : Although the Stormont library is being increased and certain students are given access to it, Members of Parliament who are elected to serve the people of Northern Ireland do not have the right to use it. Does the right hon. Gentleman agree that they should have that right?Mr. Taylor : That is news to me. I did not know that students were allowed to use the library. I am horrified to hear that news. I understood that we had a right to use its
Column 114
facilities. I have done so in one way or another without realising that I was misbehaving. I hope that that matter will be investigated, because it sounds serious.Several Hon. Members rose
Mr. Deputy Speaker (Mr. Harold Walker) : Order. Three hon. Members have risen. I understand that the Front Bench spokesmen would like to reply to the debate at about 11.5 pm. I hope that we can include in the debate everyone who wants to speak.
Column 115
10.36 pmMr. Peter Robinson (Belfast, East) : I should like to take up the comments of the right hon. Member for Strangford (Mr. Taylor) about the use of the Stormont parliamentary buildings. I understand that the library can be used by former Ministers of either the power-sharing executive or the Stormont Parliament, by a number of researchers and by students. I see no satisfactory reason why Northern Ireland Members should not be able to use not only that facility but some of the others in parliamentary buildings for which taxpayers pay. I trust that the Minister will look into that matter which falls within either his remit or that of the Department of Finance and Personnel.
The right hon. Member for Strangford referred also to the road network in Castlereagh. My constituency joins Strangford at the Castlereagh roundabout. The road services section of the Department of Environment decided that it would be pleasant to have a 20 ft. high concrete flyover at that site. The local community disapproved of that proposal and fought it at the Belfast urban area plan hearing. I am glad to say that the fight was successful. I represented the local community at the hearing and we were delighted that it recommended that the flyover should not be constructed but that an "at grade" level improvement should be made. The Department has proposed that traffic lights should be installed at each of the roads that now enter the roundabout and that the roundabout should be removed.
A problem exists, of which the right hon. Member for Strangford will be aware. The Castledona estate is a congested area where, after much pleading with the Department, it was agreed that traffic lights were needed where the road met the dual carriageway. We have been told, however, that the necessary money is not immediately available in the budget for this financial year and it is doubtful whether it will be made available next year. A tragedy is likely to occur if that money is not made available in the next financial year. I ask the Under-Secretary who is to reply to the debate--it is his Department's spending to which we are referring--to move that further up his list of priorities to ensure that the expenditure for that work falls within the coming financial year.
I agree with the hon. Member for Leicester, South (Mr. Marshall), who referred to the Fruit of the Loom proposal for Londonderry, that it would be a tragedy if the prospect of 500 jobs were lost, especially in an area where there is a clear need for more employment. It matters little to me-- or, I suspect, to any other Unionist present tonight--whether those jobs go to those of nationalist or of Unionist persuasion. They are jobs for the Province, and I trust that the Minister responsible for that Department will do everything possible to ensure that they are secured for Northern Ireland.
In the same vein, a depressing article about the employment prospects in west Belfast appeared in this morning's edition of The Irish Times . It is clear that, as a part of the United Kingdom, west Belfast should enjoy the benefits of being a part of the United Kindom. Even though its elected representative may not come to the House and, therefore, does not plead the case for his
Column 116
constituents, there is a clear need for more employment prospects for west Belfast. I trust that the Department will not chicken out and let the people of west Belfast down because it does not like their Member of Parliament. I suspect that, if that were the criterion, certain other constituencies might be treated none too favourably.I trust that the Minister, who is now showing a special interest in Ulster Conservatism, will take a special look at the prospects for his party in west Belfast, and do something to encourage the people of that constituency to believe that the United Kingdom can provide job prospects in an area where there is a great deal of deprivation. The Minister is a member of the East Belfast association of the Conservative party. I am sure that he will accept from me my concern about housing in my constituency, which he now wants to adopt. As the Minister responsible for the deplorable housing situation in east Belfast, he will know that the waiting list for that area alone demonstrates a housing need greater than the housing provision that is being made for Northern Ireland as a whole. There are more than 2, 000 people on waiting lists looking for housing in east Belfast. Statistics that I have show that on the A priority and urgent needs lists alone, there are more than 500 people waiting for housing in east Belfast ; that is as many houses as the Housing Executive will be building in the whole of Northern Ireland, if not more. It is not just in relation to house building that the Government's policy of cuts has been affecting the people of Northern Ireland. We have people waiting to get essential repairs carried out. A survey of house conditions in 1987 showed that 8.4 per cent. of the housing stock in Northern Ireland was unfit, while 14.1 per cent. required substantial repair. The Housing Executive's own stock was also in need of repair. Around 60,000 of the executive's properties required improvement and upgrading. That is more than one third of the executive's stock, which has in any case been substantially reduced as a result of the house sales policy that the Government have pursued. Incidentally, I approve of that policy, but I do so because it should leave more public money available to put into the housing of the executive and to make money available to build more houses. The policy is not achieving either of those ends. We are finding that once the money from rents has gone towards the meagre house building programme, the executive has next to nothing left to maintain the properties that it holds.
I have no doubt that the Minister will play statistical ping-pong with us on this one. It is easier to juggle statistics than facts. As everyone knows in Northern Ireland, fewer houses are being built and the need for housing is increasing. The Minister is happy to hand the problem over to the private sector and to tell it to build the houses. He is oblivious to the fact that a large section of the community in Northern Ireland cannot afford to buy houses or pay the vastly increasing mortgage rates.
I am paying nearly twice as much on my mortgage as I paid two years ago. The terrible point is that the Government's policy towards rents in Northern Ireland means that rents have increased more than mortgages. The Department has a policy of increasing rents on a formula of inflation plus 5 per cent. By 1993 the average Housing Executive rent will be about £25 a week. That may not seem a lot of money by Great Britain standards, but houses cost three times as much elsewhere in Great Britain
Column 117
as in Northern Ireland. There is much less disposable income for property after the higher prices have been paid for consumer goods in the Province. The Housing Executive's bid for funding has been cut by £13.7 million. We can imagine that the executive, in making its bid, took cognisance of the fact that the Minister's policy required it to cut back. It is cutting £13.7 million off an already pruned budget. As chairman of the environment committee of the Northern Ireland Assembly I pressed the Government at the time to extend repair programmes to modern post-war housing in which the residents could not afford to carry out essential repairs. The executive has had to trim back its grants and to target those in greatest need. As a result, the importance of prevention is being overlooked and that is a false economy. If people cannot afford to have necessary repairs carried out, the condition of the houses will deteriorate. Therfore, the people will need alternative accommodation which the executive cannot afford to provide and we end up with all sorts of housing problems.I plead with the Minister to deal with housing on the basis of need instead of in relation to the finance that he would like to provide for housing. The need for housing is increasing and that requires a substantial increase in finances into public sector housing in the Province, particularly when the Belfast urban area will allow the executive to consider new areas for house building for which I trust the Minister will provide sufficient funds.
I have a plea to make about the system of planning approvals in Northern Ireland. As an elected council representative, I become increasingly frustrated at the way in which planning applications are dealt with.
The right hon. Member for Strangford and I serve on the same district council. At our last council meeting, 25 per cent. of the planning applications that we were asked to consider were for buildings that had already been constructed. There is a now a policy of "build now, apply later". The Minister has done nothing to introduce a reasonable policy on ex post facto applications. People are thumbing their noses at the Minister. His planning department is a joke. People no longer need to go through the normal process of applying for planning permission, because they simply go ahead and build. They know that, by virtue of the fact that the building exists, the planning department will not have the guts to tell them that it would not have given permission in the first place and that enforcement action should be taken.
Mr. Beggs : Does the hon. Gentleman agree that it is serious that people can proceed to build without even having building control approval?
Mr. Robinson : Yes. There clearly needs to be a link between building control approval and planning permission so that both must be applied for, either at the same time or within a certain period. During the life of the Northern Ireland Assembly, the environment committee put a proposal to the then responsible Minister that there should be a strict penalty for those who submit applications after buildings have already been constructed. We suggested that about 20 times the normal application fee should be applied to those persons. The Minister must do something when a quarter of the people who require planning permission apply when structures have already been erected. It is time for the
Column 118
Minister to do something, rather than sitting, waiting and hoping that, perhaps, people will obey the law and act according to the regulations. Of course, they will not do so.It is not just Joe Citizen--the ordinary wee guy who is building an extension on his garage--who is acting in that way. Major public companies such as Shorts are the main offenders in our area. That company has built fences around its property without submitting a planning application. It submitted a planning application only when local residents objected to the Berlin wall that it was building. In the knowledge that it required planning permission, it did the same on other sites in the Province. If that was not enough, it then put in an application to have three massive tanks constructed on its site on Alanbrooke road.
The council was naturally concerned that the chemicals that might be in the tanks might affect the local residents, and it asked for a site meeting. The council was given a date and time that was agreed by the security personnel at Shorts, but it was later cancelled by Shorts management, who would not allow councillors to go in. The management said that they would need the names and addresses of all the people involved before they would be allowed on to the premises. In the past few days I have found out why Shorts did not want the councillors in. It was because the tanks were already constructed. The Minister should do something about that disgraceful situation. Large companies such as Shorts are breaching planning laws, and their bad example is being followed by many others.
I have had meetings with several groups in my constituency who look after the mentally and physically handicapped. They do a remarkable job. Because they have a special love for the handicapped, they devote almost the whole of their lives to looking after them. I have seen the effects on their lives. I know how much they have sacrificed. If they did not do so, there would be a significant charge upon the state. I see how little the Government do to give assistance and succour to those people, if only in terms of looking after a handicapped person for a matter of hours, days or even a weekend to allow their carers to have at least a break from their exertion.
I was speaking to a lady who has two handicapped children. She must carry one of them upstairs on her back. She does that every day, every week, every month, and every year. She cannot get anybody to take over that responsibility. Who, by way of neighbours and friends, is likely to take over that responsibility? I trust that the whole issue of respite care can be tackled by the Government.
Mr. Stott : I am interested in what the hon. Gentleman says. Clearly, he speaks with a great deal of experience. When local government is working properly--I take it that in the Province it is not--in spite of the problems of the past 10 years of Conservative Government, in the United Kingdom we have a system whereby people such as the hon. Gentleman described can get relief. They can go away on holiday and get a rest from what they do in their daily lives. The local social services committee in my constituency will provide social workers and other people from the department to give such people relief from the arduous tasks that they have to perform every day of their lives.
Column 119
Mr. Robinson : I accept what the hon. Gentleman says. It is encouraging that in some areas of the United Kingdom such assistance is given. In Northern Ireland, because of the restrictions on local government, local authorities have no responsibility in relation to the Department of Health and Social Services. Indeed, it would be ultra vires for local government to spend any money on such a respite care scheme. Therefore, it is left to charities. I know of only one charity that is making moves to do the work that the Government refuse thus far to do. There is a great need and I believe that most people in Northern Ireland have great sympathy with it. I trust that the Minister will encourage his colleague with the responsibility to take action to ensure some relief for those who have done so much for society. It is important that people who are handicapped, whether mentally or physically, are maintained as an integral part of society, rather than put into hospitals, homes or other types of organisational structure. I trust that the Minister will consider that issue.
10.56 pm
Rev. Martin Smyth (Belfast, South) : I agree with the point made by the hon. Member for Belfast, East (Mr. Robinson). I draw the attention of the House to a remark in the commentary on public expenditure published in 1989 :
"Take-up of disability benefits is difficult to measure, and there has been only limited information available about the numbers who might be eligible."
It is an indictment of the Department and the health boards that, despite a survey made some years ago, we still do not have accurate figures on those who need care because of their disability. In that context, I should like to ask some questions about the vote on the Department of Health and Social Services. There is a growing waiting list in most hospitals except Musgrave park, where there has been a marked decline in the waiting list. That decline was brought about because the orthopaedic specialists got together, targeted areas of need and, using new computer techniques, reduced the waiting list drastically. In spite of that, the hospital could do with another specialist appointment to deal with rheumatoid arthritis in the orthopaedic department. If that one extra specialist were appointed, it would have a tremendous impact on the needs of people throughout Northern Ireland because it is a regional specialty. Are there any plans in the Department for the appointment of such a specialist?
Recently an ex gratia payment was made to the Haemophilia Society for those who have contracted HIV as a result of blood plasma transfusions. Will people in Northern Ireland who were so infected be recipients from the same grant, or will that be done through the Department's budget in Northern Ireland? If so, how many are involved? I understand that between 32 and 52 people in Great Britain were affected, not because they were haemophiliacs but because they went through the normal process of an operation and the blood transfusion that they received infected them. Nothing has been done for such people. Is there any record of the numbers of people so affected in Northern Ireland? Is the Department prepared to make an ex gratia payment that is equivalent to the £20,000 to help those people to meet their challenges and needs?
Column 120
If agencies of the Government make mistakes, without blame being attached, I believe that there should at least be compensation for the victims.There has recently been a court case about the restrictions of the social fund. I asked earlier about the use of the social fund in Northern Ireland. Has the Department in Northern Ireland taken account of the court order? Are people with genuine needs now receiving special payments outside the limited number that were granted according to the Department's guidelines? Is the money that has been set aside in vote 3 of the Department of Health and Social Services for
"the Belfast Social Security Centre and the paid order store at Lisahally as agent for the Department of Social Security" coming from the Northern Ireland Consolidated Fund or from the general Great Britain allocation? We are always told that we are receiving more benefits than other areas.
Is the money in the Northern Ireland Consolidated Fund used in the best interests of developing the Northern Ireland economy and for the training of Northern Ireland young people, or is it being returned to the Treasury because it is not being used for the purpose for which it was designated? In that context, I should like to ask about the discretionary grants from both the Departments of Education and of Health and Social Services that are aimed at helping young people to train. Is it a fact that we have restricted the number of people who are eligible for such grants in Northern Ireland when, if they lived in Great Britain, they would receive such grants, especially for training in physiotherapy, through the Department of Health offices at Blackpool and when, if they came from any other country, they would be entitled to similar grants? If they are eligible for training for a diploma in a university or college in Great Britain and the Northern Ireland Department says, "We have enough here--we don't want any more trained", are those young people being discriminated against, or is the Department finding other means of training them up to their capacity so that they may be useful servants, not only of the community in Northern Ireland, but of the nation as a whole and even further afield?
Finally--I have been pushing on because I realise the time--has the Minister been made aware of the concern about the working of the parliamentary commissioner? It is not so much that he is not doing his job properly, but the regulations under which he works are so restrictive that people are having their cases turned down--not because they do not have a case, but because the commissioner is not entitled to investigate it. If he is a commissioner who looks into maladministration, and if there is maladministration, is it not time that it should be investigated rather than the person concerned being told by the commissioner, "I'm sorry, I cannot look into your case"? 11.3 pm
Mr. Harry Barnes (Derbyshire, North-East) : I thank the hon. Member for Belfast, South (Rev. Martin Smyth) for finishing his speech quickly so as to allow me to make one or two comments. Obviously, I cannot make the type of speech that I had been planning. Because of the time restraints, I shall limit myself to two major points. First, I shall explain why I think that our debates on appropriation are important. Secondly, I shall elaborate on a point which I made earlier in an intervention.
The appropriation debates are important because they allow us to discuss bread and butter issues in Northern
Column 121
Ireland. The material contained under the headings of the appropriation order are usually considered to be the stuff of politics that we deal with in the House day by day for the rest of the United Kingdom. The debates are less dramatic and arouse less emotion than those on the prevention of terrorism. They provide an opportunity to discuss issues affecting people's everyday lives and they should be given priority in our considerations. We should be allowed to develop economic and social policies which create the framework to solve some of the other problems in Northern Ireland. The debates also allow us to discuss economic policy generally and to co-ordinate the various headings of the order. They are the nearest that we come to a Northern Ireland budget debate, separate from the general Budget provisions. Sometimes we get too bogged down in detail to discuss wider economic considerations.In discussing economic policy we need to be aware that Northern Ireland is not an island, nor is the island of Ireland an island as wider issues of multi-national economies, such as Bombardier, European social and economic policies and the United Kingdom economy and budgetary position, are involved. They are relevant to our debates and to the policies which could begin to help create a different framework for Northern Ireland.
In an intervention I suggested that the social welfare policies discussed by the hon. Member for North Down (Mr. Kilfedder) and others begin to be appropriate to Northern Ireland. The Government should take them on board, especially as all Northern Ireland Members, whatever their political complexion, are pressing for them. My hon. Friend the Member for Leicester, South (Mr. Marshall) suggested economic interventionism. If interventionism produces bureaucratic problems, the answer to those problems is to seek devolution and a Bill of Rights. I know that the hon. Gentleman and I agree that that is the constitutional answer and would provide the framework for these important developments.
The answers always seem to me to be democratic Socialist answers. Economic interventionism and social welfare are Socialist elements. The democratic side of Socialism attempts to get people together to control their destiny collectively.
11.8 pm
Mr. Roger Stott (Wigan) : We have had a diverse and interesting four -hour debate. Naturally, Northern Ireland Members have spoken with feeling and a deep understanding of their constituencies about how the appropriation order impinges and should impinge on everyday life. I have listened with interest to practically all the speeches. My speech will be relatively brief because it is important that the Minister has time to respond to the points made by the elected representatives of Northern Ireland. This is another piece of oratorical brilliance that will have to go on the cutting room floor.
I have two points to make briefly. The first relates to the section of the order dealing with the Department of the Environment and, particularly, the transportation provi-sion. I know that the Minister recently had discussions in Dublin with the Republic's transport Ministers and I should be grateful if he would share his thinking with the House about how he sees cross-border co-operation to develop an integrated transport system.
Column 122
In the past three years the Government have exhorted British industry and commerce to get into shape to meet the challenges of the internal market of 1992. My party has been critical of the way in which the Government have gone about that, but we agree with them that some strategic thinking is needed on that matter. If we are to take advantage of the huge internal market that will be created in 1992 we must remember that, geographically, Britain, and particularly the island of Ireland, will be on the periphery of Europe. It is, therefore, essential that our transport infrastructure is geared to facilitate the transportation of people, goods and materials to mainland Europe speedily and effectively.After 1992 both parts of the island of Ireland will be in the internal market. Economic and trading borders will cease to exist and if the Republic and the North of Ireland are not to be marginalised, the integration of their transport systems is vital. The rapid transit freight facilities that will be provided by the Channel tunnel--if it is built-- will be a major asset to the United Kingdom. If Britain is to be Ireland's landbridge to the continent decisions must be taken about the Euroroute to provide that link. To ensure that landbridge, the transportation links with the island of Ireland must be strengthened and improved. The rail line from Dublin to Belfast and on to Larne could play a vital role in the transportation of freight. I join the Minister and other hon. Members in their condemnation of terrorist attacks on that line. The paramilitaries should be told in the clearest terms that the Irish and British Governments and the people of Northern and southern Ireland are not intimidated by their actions.
Although I know that the Minister has no responsibility for British Rail, I hope that he has remonstrated with its board in the strongest possible terms about the inconvenience caused to the people of Northern Ireland by the withdrawal of the InterCity service between London and Stranraer. Instead of cutting services, we should be strengthening them.
I understand that British Rail is planning a rail freight terminal near Warrington in the north-west of England. If that is so, the British and Irish Governments should be looking to formulate a strategy to ensure that road, rail and ferry services are integrated so that freight from Dublin and Belfast, via Larne, Holyhead and Liverpool, can be transhipped to mainland Europe via the Channel tunnel speedily and effectively. I note that the Minister is smiling at that prospect and I hope that he and his Department are giving serious consideration to those problems. If the Minister and his counterparts in the South of Ireland fail to do so, Northern Ireland will be relegated to the periphery of economic activity after 1992. The hon. Members for Belfast, East (Mr. Robinson) and for Mid- Ulster (Rev. William McCrea) and my hon. Friend the Member for South Down (Mr. McGrady) spoke about housing problems. Yet again, I put on record our appreciation of the work done by the Northern Ireland Housing Executive. Earlier this year I had a working dinner with members of that executive when we discussed many of the problems that it encounters. No doubt the Minister is aware that the executive's budget for this year has been cut by £13.7 million--the hon. Member for Belfast, East mentioned that--and that the new-build programme has been reduced from 1,300 starts to 1,000 starts. The hon. Member for Belfast, East also outlined the problem of unfitness and disrepair in housing. I would add
Column 123
the problem of homelessness because if the hon. Gentleman looks at the recent report by Shelter, he will realise that homelessness is a problem in Northern Ireland as well as in the United Kingdom. I fear that that problem will not be solved by the amount of money that the Government are putting into the budget for the Northern Ireland Housing Executive.As the Minister only has a quarter of an hour to reply, I shall just mention briefly the question of rural housing. I mentioned it in Question Time last week, and I am sure that the Minister is aware of the real problem with rural housing in Northern Ireland. He must also be aware of the impositions placed upon the Northern Ireland Housing Executive and of the way in which the grant system applies to urban housing there but not to rural housing. If the Minister studied some of the recommendations made by Shelter for the organisation of the grant precedure and the redefinition of what people can get for housing improvements, some amelioration in rural housing in the Province would result.
I apologise to the House for the fact that I have taken only five minutes to reply to what has been said, but I think that the Minister ought to reply to the many significant points made by hon. Members who represent Northern Ireland.
11.10 pm
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Northern Ireland (Mr. Peter Bottomley) : I am grateful to the 14 hon. and right hon. Members who have spoken for leaving me some time to respond to some of the themes in the debate. As the hon. Member for Belfast, East (Mr. Robinson) said, it is not possible to answer all the questions in detail.
If the hon. Member for Belfast, North (Mr. Walker) will allow me, perhaps I can write to him about some of the points that he raised. I shall try to ensure that letters to hon. Members in response to their questions are put in the Library so that they will be available to all hon. Members who have taken part in the debate.
The hon. Member for Mid-Ulster (Rev. William McCrea) effectively made points which received assent from hon. Members on both sides of the House. When I was west of the Bann yesterday I learned of some of the things said and done by those who have been most affected by the killings in his constituency. I do not want to give a running commentary on the hon. Gentleman's address--that would be totally improper of me--but the dignity and non-retaliation of many of the families of people who have been killed, and of those directly affected, and this applies as much to Belfast as it does to Mid-Ulster, is an inspiration to the rest of us. I am not suggesting that there is not a strong role for the security forces in anticipating and following up terrorist activity afterwards, but the families set an example that the rest of us should follow. Occasionally, I feel that one of the tragedies is that Northern Ireland has some of the best politicians in the land--they are articulate and persuasive--but occasionally they are totally unable to agree with one another. That is not a criticism of them, but a description of fact. It is important to recognise that the faster we find effective ways--there are a number of them--of reducing the impact of terrorism, the sooner we shall be able to provide
Column 124
the jobs and the justice that we come into politics to work for in our different ways, with our different insights and with our disagreements.It is important to realise that there has been spending of some £6, 000 million per year--between £3,000 and £4,000 per person--in Northern Ireland. It can be more effectively directed at people's needs if we can overcome or reduce the impact of terrorism. I say to those people who speak out publicly in Northern Ireland that those who manage to speak out against the terrorism that affects both sides of the community and everyone in Northern Ireland are setting an honourable example for the rest of us while the people behind the killers cause as much killing in their own community as they direct at those on the other side.
The hon. Member for Belfast, South (Rev. Martin Smyth) asked about the possibility of helping those with disabilities to find employment and to take advantage of education. It is clearly much better to use money to help people work than to give them money solely on condition that they do nothing worth while. Many of the job training and other schemes are designed to do that. Much of the help for the disabled is designed to help people achieve something rather than sit back and do nothing. I will send the hon. Gentleman a more specific reply. If it is inadequate, he can take up the matter with me again.
It is not possible to undertake all the high priority road schemes at the same time. A deliberate decision was taken in Northern Ireland to spend more on housing and less on roads, because of the housing priorities. Tributes have been paid to the Northern Ireland Housing Executive for its remarkable achievements over the years. The money has been used well. It is still necessary for the Housing Executive to find the most efficient way of translating money into better homes, taking account of what the private sector does. I shall not produce the string of statistics foreseen by the hon. Member for Belfast, East (Mr. Robinson), even though he is the Member of Parliament for the area in which my Conservative association is.
The Housing Executive has a gross budget of more than £500 million per year, so it should be possible to find more effective ways of carrying out its work each year. It is important that it should be answerable to the people in the districts. I pay tribute to the Housing Executive's determination to ensure that advice is available to people in both rural and urban areas. Shelter and other organisations have given a general welcome to the way in which the Housing Executive has extended the terms of some of the grants to recognise that owner-occupiers may sometimes live in homes as bad as any that they might otherwise have rented.
There is a determination to ensure that the rural improvement programme and the inter-departmental committee take an
across-the-board approach to people's problems. It is no longer any good telling people that their problems do not match the way in which the authorities are organised ; we must make sure that we are organised so as to match people's problems.
Mr. William Ross : Is the Minister prepared to put forward a scheme which, instead of offering repair money, replaces some of those poor rural homes?
Mr. Bottomley : We have not yet been able to agree on what the Housing Executive has put forward on this issue ; it is under consideration. It is worth remembering that
Column 125
many people want to avoid wholesale demolition of historic homes in the countryside. We want to find ways of maintaining our heritage, using replacement grants when that is sensible. I cannot promise that we have found the solution, but, as the hon. Gentleman rightly suggested, we must seek to move forward.It is important to remember that the contribution of the private sector to housing has risen from 3,000 homes a year 10 years ago to 7,000 now. That enables the Housing Executive to reduce the number of new homes that it builds while spending more on rehabilitation. Tribute has been paid to some of the Housing Executive's imaginative schemes ; the part-ownership schemes, for instance, are greatly appreciated by young people who would otherwise find it difficult to get a place on the ladder.
I shall leave questions about hospitals to my noble Friend in another place and to my hon. Friend the Minister for Health. I should not find it easy to give detailed responses in the remaining seven minutes.
Hon. Members on both sides have stressed the importance of recognising the carers and the need for respite care. The latter idea has been developed in the United Kingdom generally over the past 10 years. The Carers National Association and the Association of Carers, which have wisely joined forces, have done a great deal to help health authorities to provide the sort of help that is of real value, allowing people to remain in their homes for longer while lifting some of the burden from those who give themselves over for decades to the care of the handicapped and the elderly. Those who are rightly concerned with the care of children at least know that parents can usually sign off when their children are 16 or
Mr. Bottomley : The hon. Gentleman can speak from his family experiences, but I am trying to make this an impersonal debate, picking up the themes that affect many people in every constituency in Northern Ireland. I am sure that health authorities and social services--with the help of people in the community and with the help of professional staff such as doctors, nurses and others, not forgetting the voluntary groups-- are doing their best to achieve a spectrum of care opportunities which allow people to do what they can without being broken by the experience.
Industrial development is too important a subject to leave to correspondence. Although some of the announcements do not come to fruition, the figures show that the Industrial Development Board is achieving an ever greater proportion of jobs referred to in the preliminary announcements. That is a tribute to its work. In the past few years, delivery of jobs has been at a higher ratio, leaving aside the Lear Fan business. The IDB is rightly to be congratulated on asking outsiders to examine its performance, and the results of that exercise will be built into its future work.
Questions were raised about LEDU. Experience in Scotland and other parts of the United Kingdom have shown that small groups of jobs can make a dramatic difference to the earning opportunities of people in rural areas, and I think that there will be a greater concentration on that. I was delighted to note some of the diversifications in South Armagh, where with a little help people put together small businesses which provide employment not
Column 126
only for the small-scale entrepreneur, but for others around him. I pay tribute to the interest that my right hon. Friend the Minister of State has paid to that during the past eight years, in the same way as he has encouraged my hon. Friend the Member for Wiltshire, North (Mr. Needham) as Minister with responsibility for the economy. It is a partnership to ensure that there is value for money as well as taking the opportunity to put on the public agenda the issues that individual Members of Parliament have discovered from their experiences or those of their constituents.In the long run, flesh will be put on the development of the rural improvement programme, as well as that for the cities, through tourism. Some 45 million people in the United States know that they are Irish- Americans, Ulster-Scots and so on. About 8 per cent. of US citizens hold passports--unlike in Europe where about 60 per cent. of people hold passports--but that still amounts to some 20 million people and in the next few years we can look forward to more and more of them visiting Ireland. Indeed, I look forward to the Ulster-Canada year in 1991, when I hope that there will be many more tourists from Canada. I think that all those people are now beginning to believe that with their Irish connections they should visit Northern Ireland--and indeed the South--at least once during their lifetime, in the same way as people of Jewish origin visit Jerusalem or those of Islamic faith visit Mecca. If people claim to have a connection with Northern Ireland, they should stand at Navan Fort and look at the twin cathedrals of Armagh or go fishing in Fermanagh. Changes in the approach to tourism will increasingly make people realise what they can gain from visiting Northern Ireland. One of the tragedies of the necessary media attention to bombs, bullets and bigotry is that sometimes it squeezes out other things for which Northern Ireland would otherwise be known.
It is of benefit to the South, too, if terrorism can be extirpated and eliminated and if the conditions that people currently tolerated can be improved. That involves not only the security forces, but the attitudes of the people. They want to feel that jobs and justice are coming.
Perhaps I could finish by talking about links with the South. It is criminal in every sense for the railway line to be blown up. The railway crossing accident shows by mistake what the IRA is trying to do deliberately. The IRA relies on the emergency services, Northern Ireland Railways and the security forces to make sure that bombs placed on the line to Dublin do not explode and cause a crash. During the inquiry into the level crossing crash we may find that everything was not done perfectly. That is the reason for the inquiry and I hope that the information given in the debate will go to the inspector. If anyone has any information, he should put it forward. That is what we in the Department of the Environment will do.
Rev. Ian Paisley : Will the Minister give way?
Mr. Bottomley : It is difficult to give way when only 30 seconds remain of the debate, but I will do so.
Rev. Ian Paisley : Will the Minister look at that crossing? Will he note that it has inclines on both approaches causing a loss of visibility to car drivers?
Mr. Bottomley : I will make sure that the inspector looks at all the issues.
Column 127
This has been a useful debate and I hope that the appropriation receives the approval of the House.It being half-past Eleven o'clock, Mr. Deputy Speaker-- put the Question, pursuant to Standing Order No. 14 (Exempted business). Question agreed to.
Resolved,
That the draft Appropriation (Northern Ireland) Order 1990, which was laid before this House on 13th February, be approved.
NORTHERN IRELAND (LICENSING)
Resolved,
That the draft Licensing (Northern Ireland) Order 1990, which was laid before this House on 18th January, be approved.-- [Mr. Chapman.]
Column 128
Orders of the Day
Capital Allowances Bill [Lords]
Order for Second Reading read.
11.31 pm
The Solicitor-General (Sir Nicholas Lyell) : I beg to move, That the Bill be now read a Second time.
The Bill consolidates certain enactments relating to capital allowances. The last such consolidation took place in 1968 and the additions and amendments to the law made by each subsequent Finance Act have made a new consolidation exercise necessary. The Bill is pure consolidation ; no amendment to the present law is made. It represents a further stage in the continuing programme of consolidation of revenue legislation, and comes just two years after the consolidation of enactments relating to income tax and corporation tax.
I am sure that the House will wish me to acknowledge once again our debt of gratitude to the draftsmen for their considerable achievements in producing the Bill. It has been passed in another place where, in the usual way, it was referred to the Joint Committee on Consolidation, which reported that the Bill, as amended by the Committee, is pure consolidation.
11.32 pm
| Next Section
| Home Page |