House of Commons Hansard Debates for 12 Mar 1990

Mr. Forsythe : I agree with the use of the word "flexibility". I am sure that we could get a little fliexibility while, I hope, working within the planning laws.

With regard to vote 1, Department of Environment, and to section (g) dealing with railways, once again I should like to put on the record my own and my party's sympathy for the relatives of those who were tragically killed at the Slaght crossing. Our hearts go out to the children who were orphaned by the crash and to all those who have lost loved ones. As party spokesman on transport, in the past I have put on record my concern about such crossings and I hope to have the opportunity to do so again at the public inquiry. I most sincerely congratulate the Under-Secretary of State, the hon. Member for Eltham (Mr. Bottomley), on his prompt action in setting up the inquiry. I congratulate also the fire service, the ambulance service, the Royal Ulster Constabulary, the hospitals, the nurses, the doctors and everyone who helped at the scene.

The inquiry must look at all aspects of that type of crossing, not just at that specific instance. I am concerned that we should do that because on 1 October last year--just five months before the accident at Slaght crossing- -a gentleman was driving towards that crossing with his wife, sister and brother-in-law. Just before he reached the

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crossing, he almost overtook a number of children on bicycles. As a result of that, the driver was then extremely careful to make sure that everything was correct. When he got to the crossing, he made sure that the warning lights were not flashing. He allowed the children in front of him to cross the crossing. He then proceeded to cross the railway lines as quickly as possible. As he reached the middle of the railway lines, one of his passengers screamed in his ear, "Quick, there's a train coming", or words to that effect. The car had just reached safety when an engine thundered past behind it, without any warning whatever.

I repeat that that incident was at the crossing where the later incident occurred. Because of the shock and because of the incline beyond the crossing on both sides, the driver had travelled about 30 yd further before he recovered himself enough to turn back to check the situation. As he approached the crossing for the second time, the warning lights started to flash--long after the engine had passed. Along with the other road-users at the scene, the driver waited for a long time, but the lights still continued to flash. Eventually, one of the other drivers got out of his car, walked to the railway line, looked up and down it, saw that nothing was coming and eventually went across, as did everyone else.

The gentleman concerned was willing to appear to give evidence. The incident was reported to the Royal Ulster Constabulary and a statement was taken. The facts are all on record. It is imperative that all such evidence should be brought before the public inquiry. That is why I should like the inquiry to be sufficiently wide to take in the operation of all such crossings. I should like the evidence of such events, if the RUC has records on them, to be gathered together and examined. Various questions must be asked so that the causes of the accident are revealed and, if necessary, changes made to such crossings before we have further tragedies. I know that the Minister agrees. Sadly, those who could tell us exactly what happened on that occasion are no longer with us. We owe it to them and their children to discover the truth.

I hope that more attention will be paid to the result of the inquiry than is apparently being paid to the Tully road closure inquiry. One of the points made by the inspector--he made only two--was that the roads division should complete the Killead bypass as soon as possible. Not only local representatives but the Department at its headquarters in Belfast led me to believe before the result of the inquiry was known that the bypass would be started as soon as possible, perhaps even during this financial year. I have been dismayed and alarmed since the report was published to be told by local councillors that the bypass is being further postponed. I have not been told that, but if it is true, it is intolerable. The one section of road near Aldergrove international airport which has the greatest volume of traffic, including heavy traffic, of all the roads in the area--the Minister gave me the figures--is not being improved, yet another section of the road which has less traffic is being improved even as we speak. That is incredible. If no work is started on the Killead bypass after all these years--it goes back to the time when my right hon. Friend the Member for Lagan Valley (Mr. Molyneaux) was the Member for Antrim, South and was promised the bypass--it is a scandal. The Department is treating the residents of Killead village very badly. I hope that the Minister will ease my fears and tell me that what I have heard is not true and that the bypass is to be started in the near future.

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I wish to make a few points about the number of employees and the sums being spent by the Department. Out of £156.5 million, which covers roads, lighting, parking and ferry services, transport, railways, ports and administration, and other expenditure, only £29 million will go on new construction, while £36 million will be used for maintenance. Public liability will continue to cost £6 million. That is a high figure and must point to something being wrong with the roads.

The number of industrial workers has fallen by 15 and costs £19 million while the number of administrative staff has increased by 134 and costs, with consultancy fees, £30 million. I can assure the Minister that if the overheads of my former business in the construction industry had been as high as that, I should have been out of business. I am sure that that cannot be to the advantage of the general public.

The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Northern Ireland (Mr. Peter Bottomley) : Some of the extra staff may be creating designs which go out to tender in the private sector, so those whom the hon. Gentleman does not praise as he might might be keeping his business in business.

Mr. Forsythe : I accept what the Minister has said and note his use of the word "might"

In the water and sewage section, the number of industrial workers has fallen by 29 and costs £17 million, whereas the number of administrative staff has fallen by only 20 and costs, with consultancy fees, £23.5 million. I am not suggesting that we should make people unemployed, but I am emphasising that out of a total of £93 million the administration costs are £23.5 million, or 25 per cent.

Grants to small and medium-sized firms are listed. I heard what the Minister said about being a supporter of small businesses. That is why I wonder why the small businesses total has been reduced by £268, 000. I do not know whether the Minister welcomes that. What is the reason for it? I have received complaints from constituents who feel that unless one has a foreign-sounding name or comes from certain parts of the Province the chances of securing assistance are remote. I know that that does not apply to the Local Enterprise Development Unit, but to the Industrial Development Board.

Will the Minister explain why many people in Northern Ireland are worried about pollution in our rivers and lakes? The hon. Member for North Down (Mr. Kilfedder) commented on that. I drew the Minister's attention to the problem of work being carried out on river beds by the drainage division of the Department. Fishermen have been complaining about that. Indeed, they have been complaining readily about many environmental problems and there is certainly support for their views. I understand that recently Ballymena borough council called for a public inquiry into the Fisheries Conservancy Board. Perhaps the Minister has some idea of the problem. I should be interested to know what the problems are.

Mr. Roy Beggs (Antrim, East) : Does my hon. Friend agree that there is also tremendous anxiety about the depletion of salmon and Dollaghan in Lough Neagh, which is believed to have come about because of inactivity by bailiffs and the Fisheries Conservancy Board to the

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extent that fishermen feel that the word "conservancy" should be dropped and it should simply be called the fisheries board?

Mr. Forsythe : My hon. Friend puts his case well. I am concerned that the borough council should go to the trouble to make such a proposal and it should be looked at.

I am also concerned about the past year's underspend of the social fund last year, which amounted to as much as 66 per cent. in certain areas. I agree with the hon. Member for North Down about the problems faced by pensioners and the handicapped and, in particular, the problems associated with the attendance allowance. When doctors examine applicants for that allowance, the applicants are often too proud to show that they need it. Pride will not allow them to say that they cannot do certain things and, sadly, it is their wives or their carers who have to bear the brunt of that. I know several who are in that postion. Those who administer the fund may believe that they are working to the guidelines, but perhaps they should be studied further.

The Government's aim is for better targeting of social services, but they have not hit the right target in Northern Ireland. I could discuss many other problems, but I know that many other hon. Members wish to speak, so I shall conclude my remarks.

8.40 pm

Rev. William McCrea (Mid-Ulster) : I have already expressed my frustration and anger about the conclusion of the previous debate, which related to matters of life and death for my constituents. The time allotted to that subject was cut drastically and now we are to talk of more mundane things. It is interesting to note that the time allotted for the mundane things is more than that for the life and death issues faced by my constituents.

I am sure that you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, will understand my frustration. We are supposed to be discussing jobs and money for industry, but one of the first people murdered since December was an excellent business man, whom the Minister knew, Mr. Glover. He contributed so much to our community, yet the IRA decided that he should no longer live. Another business man was murdered in Castlederg, Mr. Alwin Kilpatrick. He was a gentleman of excellent sterling character, a Sunday school teacher, and a man who desired to give employment in the Castlederg area, which has been blighted with unemployment. However, the IRA decided that Alwin Kilpatrick was too valuable to the community. It acted as executioner after holding a back- room court somewhere in my constituency.

When we talk about the environment we should remember another young man, an employee of the Magherafelt district council, Mr. John Crawford. He was doing his ordinary day's work picking up paper as an employee of that district council. It was his job to tidy the environment, but because he was a part-time member of the UDR the IRA decided that he should no longer live and so it planted a bomb under his car. John will never walk again. His life has been spared, but his legs were blown off right to the end of his body. That is why I am so angry and frustrated.

When we discuss votes for business we should remember the value of the contribution made by Sidney McFarlane. He lost his legs, which were blown off because

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the IRA decided he should no longer make any contribution to his community. The IRA decided that he should be lying in a coffin. His life has been spared, but he has lost his legs. He is another of my constituents who, since the beginning of this year, has been the subject of a terrorist attack.

What about the ordinary people of Sion Mills? I agree with what the hon. Member for North Down (Mr. Kilfedder) said about senior citizens. At the weekend I met two elderly people who said that in their day they did what they could for their country in their work. They gave all that they had, but now they have no roof over their heads, because, in common with many others, the IRA decided that the buildings of Sion Mills should be blasted to the ground. Those elderly people have been left without one stick of furniture, without one piece of bed clothing and, other than the clothes on their back, they have absolutely nothing.

We are supposed to discuss agriculture, but what about the farmer who was doing his day's work-- [Interruption.] The hon. Member for Wigan (Mr. Stott) may not find my speech attractive, but I am talking about the realities faced by my constituents.

Mr. Jim Marshall rose --

Rev. William McCrea : I am not talking about the hon. Gentleman, so I shall not give way.

Mr. Roger Stott (Wigan) : The hon. Gentleman has mentioned me, but I must tell him that I was saying to my hon. Friend the Member for Leicester, South (Mr. Marshall) how I admired the hon. Gentleman's adroitness in getting his points across under the order we are discussing. I was not treating his speech as a laughing matter--it is a serious one.

Rev. William McCrea : I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for that and I accept his words in the spirit in which they were spoken. If we are supposed to discuss agriculture, I must think of the farmer outside Cookstown who drove through a hail of 70 bullets, 40 of which went through the cab of the tractor. Thank God, his life was spared. I also think of another young director of a firm who the IRA decided should no longer live. He was a member of my party and a fellow member of the council on which I sit. The IRA put a bomb under his car.

Thomas Jameson was murdered coming home from his day's work--I buried him yesterday. He was a brave young man who worked, as his child said to me, from morning to night to try to give them the ordinary things of life. The IRA thought that he was a threat to its ideal of a united Ireland because he drove a cement lorry. He was such a threat because he happened to work for a firm which desires to create business and to give employment to our community. It has an excellent record.

Tommy Jameson was done to death. It sickens me--I care not who likes it or otherwise--that so-called mighty Provos can decide that such men must die. Thomas Jameson was an ordinary worker in our society and he is now six feet under. The IRA planned his death and its leader in that area of County Tyrone who planned his murder and saw that it was executed, Brian Arthers, struts around as though he was a chief administrator of justice.

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He decides when my people of my constituency are going to die--he takes it out of the hands of God and puts it into his own. Therefore, many problems face my constituents. It sickens me that members of Sinn Fein can condemn economic deprivation in our Province and, as elected representatives, we have to sit on councils with them, looking across the council chamber at them, and listening to them condemn the Government for the unemployment situation, and yet Sinn Fein supports an organisation which has blasted jobs out of existence and blasted young men out of employment. It has flattened businesses, blown up factories and lengthened the dole queue. The Minister should take the first step--the honourable step--and remove the mouthpiece of terrorism from the council chambers once and for all, so as not to give it the semblance of democracy because its members are not democrats. They are the mouthpiece of terrorism and they make no apology for that.

The hon. Member for North Down has already mentioned senior citizens who helped to build the nation, who gave their best and sacrificed much but got little in return. In their youth, with the sweat of their brow and for little money, they were willing to fight in world wars to defend the nation's freedom and to build the country that we, as the younger generation, have the privilege to live in. Those elderly people are being treated disgracefully in their old age.

Pensioners in Northern Ireland can have little pride in the benefits given to them. Northern Ireland has a higher cost of living than other parts of the United Kingdom. There are higher heating costs. The Government ought to give elderly people some comfort and help in the last days of their lives. They ought to give them not concessionary but free television licences. There ought also to be proper concessionary travel passes for elderly people throughout the Province.

What is called the home help service is despicable because it is not home help any more. The Government have to help elderly people. If they want them to stay in the community, they must provide the money to keep them there. It is not enough to come out with pious attitudes and statements of what they desire and then withdraw the money that allows that desire to be fulfilled. I support keeping elderly people in the community, if it is humanly possible, and it is right to give the appropriate money to allow that to be done. It is despicable to give an old-age pensioner 15 minutes of home help when the person doing the job can hardly get through the door to boil a kettle in that time, never mind make the tea, and then has to go. Attendance and mobility allowances seem to be given a great deal of publicity. It is said, "Why don't you apply for this allowance?" but when people apply, the Government wonder how they can prevent them from getting the allowances.

I believe that a watchful eye must be kept on private nursing homes. I support such homes, but the Government must ensure that they give the elderly exactly what they are supposed to get--proper nursing care in the latter days of their lives.

Other matters are troubling my constituents, and I shall try to mention them briefly. I trust that the Minister will consider them. I do not expect an answer tonight on many of the subjects, but I expect an answer for my constituents.

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One issue is the new history park at Gortin outside Omagh. The local council is spending £3 million on the development of that excellent pavilion. The greatest necessity for the region is to encourage tourists. Therefore, we need a proper infrastructure of roads, and I beg the Minister to give urgent consideration to proper roads leading to the new park at Gortin.

Another issue is the Omagh bypass. Phases 1, 2 and 3 are urgently required and I appeal to the Minister not to stop after phase 1 or to allow some 18 months' delay until the money is available for phase 2. Will he consider allowing the contractor to continue with phase 2 because it is so urgently needed for the county town of Omagh? A ring sewer has been promised for the south of Omagh. It is urgently needed and has been talked about for years. It will go from Cranny Bridge to Dromore road. Housing development in the area has been restricted because there is not sufficient sewage capacity, so builders are permitted to build only seven houses in a development each year. That is pushing up the price of houses for people who desire to buy their own homes. I know that it is the Minister's and the Government's policy to encourage people to buy their own homes and to invest money in them. It is deplorable that prices are being inflated because of the lack of sewage provision in the area and because builders are not permitted to build the number of houses that they are willing to build. I have made representations and I am having discussions with the Northern Ireland Office on that subject. We are disappointed about the removal of the regional Housing Executive office. There has been pressure to transfer the Housing Executive office to Londonderry and that is a death blow to jobs in the area. Will the Minister reconsider that decision and ask the Housing Executive to maintain the regional office in Omagh? I also ask the Minister to consider helping the physically and mentally handicapped children of Fermanagh and Tyrone. We urgently need a centre for them in Omagh. The one in Stradreagh, Londonderry is not enough for the people of Fermanagh and Tyrone. I ask the Minister to consider the representations from the Western board for more money for this vital facility.

I ask the Minister also to consider the urgent need for a bypass for Cookstown. It should be brought out of the minor roads programme and put into the major works programme. I am told that £60,000 has been allocated for next financial year. If the work is done piecemeal, the traffic jams will merely move from one spot in the town to another. Why does not the Department grasp the nettle and solve the problem? Cookstown has the second highest unemployment in the Province and it is being strangled because the bypass that is essential to industrial development is being built piecemeal. Only a few weeks ago an industrialist decided not to come to Cookstown because he found that it would be too costly. He found out about the build-up of traffic at the checkpoints in the town and discovered that, at one end of the town, the traffic had to wait for 20 minutes before moving on. To a business man, the money involved could mean survival or going under. I appeal to the Minister carefully to examine the Cookstown problem and allow

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proper development of the bypass, which would rejuvenate the town. Employment and business are already leaving, and we need help. Road surfaces in my constituency are generally not commendable, and some of them are deplorable. Many constituencies in the Province have major roadworks--they have dual carriageways and motorways--but not Mid- Ulster. We do not even have proper road surfaces, never mind the building of larger roads.

In rural planning policy we need urgent revision review and amendment. I agree with the hon. Member for Antrim, South (Mr. Forsythe) : there are more refusals now than there have been for some time. Flexibility should be exercised towards those who want to live in the countryside, and those who must live there. I assure the Minister that he will have the support of the elected representatives of Ulster if he considers greater flexibility in rural planning ; he will also have the support of the Northern Ireland electorate. Perhaps then he might decide to stand in one of our constituencies--

Mr. Peter Robinson (Belfast, East) : But then he would stand against me : he is a member of the East Belfast Tory association.

Mr. Peter Bottomley : Although I am a member of the Stormont Castle workers branch of the East Belfast Conservative Association, if I were to stand I should find it difficult to choose between the constituency of the hon. Member for Belfast, East (Mr. Robinson) and that of Londonderry, East.

As for the planning applications, it might make sense if Members representing the rural areas came together and spoke to my hon. Friend the Member for Wiltshire, North (Mr. Needham) :

Rev. William McCrea : I am taking full advantage of the place to which I was elected to make representations to the relevant Minister tonight. I trust that he will answer accordingly and not pass the buck to someone else.

I also want to ask the Minister about Department of Economic Development allocations of grants. Is it the aim of the Industrial Development Board, when awarding grants to help with jobs, to award them to projects with or without IFI grants? It is believed that if one does not get an IFI grant one will not receive an IDB grant. There is pressure to apply for an International Fund of Ireland grant to obtain some of these grants. Is that Government policy? If so, have the Government abandoned their responsibilities to create jobs? I trust not, but I have been asked to have the matter clarified this evening.

Rev. Ian Paisley (Antrim, North) : I am sure that my hon. Friend and the House will be interested to hear the Minister tell us something about the news that broke today that there is some question about the Fruit of the Loom jobs that were to come to Londonderry, and about the viability of the firm in question. I trust that that can be put to rest ; we all welcome jobs wherever they can be got in the Province--

Mr. Peter Bottomley rose --

Mr. Deputy Speaker (Sir Paul Dean) : Order. We cannot have an intervention in an intervention.

Rev. William McCrea : I give way to the Minister.

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Mr. Peter Bottomley : This point was dealt with on the radio in Northern Ireland this morning. There was full knowledge of the news, which appears to be new news, but is not. I hope that there will not be a scare about the announcement by Fruit of the Loom. It cannot be possible that it is a requirement on an application for Local Enterprise Development Unit or Industrial Development Board assistance that people apply to the international fund. I hope that people with appropriate projects will apply to the international fund as that is useful. People should not think that they must be accepted by a non-governmental body to be acceptable to a Government body. Obviously, there are some things that LEDU and IDB would not deem acceptable.

Rev. William McCrea : I thank the Minister for that assurance, which will be considered carefully by those outside the House. I will draw to the Minister's attention two other matters connected with the vote. The elected representatives in the Province are concerned, when they sit in their district councils and decide on the district rate and the rate burden, that after careful scrutiny of the books and after listening to the appeals to keep the district rates down, they find that the regional rate is dumped on top of the district rate with a massive incease in percentage. That happened last year. Will the Minister examine that matter carefully? I trust that when the regional rate is set it will not be an exorbitant burden on my constituency.

Will the Minister examine the area of Castlederg, which has suffered so much? It needs proper roads and proper hotels to bring in and accommodate tourists. It also urgently needs jobs because it is dying. Because of terrorist activity, it has suffered more than any other village in the Province in the 20 years of troubles. Will the Minister act as quickly as possible on the survey that has already been carried out? If he does, the district of Castlederg will be rejuvenated and life will be brought back to the people who have suffered so much.

In the surrounding area of Strabane appeals have been made for appropriate grants to bring several cottages up to a reasonable standard. The Housing Executive is not willing to provide sufficient grants. It is trying to force the tenants out of the cottages and into Strabane. Many people have resided in those cottages all their lives, and some of their parents resided there before them. They have reared their children in those cottages. They would prefer to stay there, instead of being forced out because they do not have the appropriate amenities. Will the Minister give earnest consideration to the need of that district of Castlederg?

9.3 pm

Mr. Eddie McGrady (South Down) : I was interested in what the Minister of State said in his intervention in the speech of the hon. Member for Leicester, South (Mr. Marshall). He said that things were looking rosy in Northern Ireland in reports up to 30 September 1989 and he quoted a 9 per cent. increase in the economy to that time. Will the Minister in replying to the debate examine the reports from those same sources after 31 December 1989? As was pointed out by the hon. Member for Leicester, South, the indicators from all the sources that we take for granted as being the authority on the matter point to either a very low rate of increased industrial production or no increase at all. Some sectors are even

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forecasting a fall. The Government's response might indicate a degree of complacency that would be totally unwarranted.

In the next couple of years up to and beyond 1992 it is incumbent on not only the Government but the public representatives, industrialists, workers, and everyone else in Northern Ireland to seek new and innovative ways of enhancing the prospect of increasing production and job creation within Northern Ireland. At the same time, we must make it attractive and easier for investment to be brought into Northern Ireland. We have a continuation year after year of safe and tried measures. I suggest that it is time for us to look at new schemes, new ideas and new models, not only in industrial development per se but in tourist promotion, the growth of which could be equal to the growth of industrial development in the 1990s and beyond. The Northern Ireland tourist board has been laying low for the past couple of years under the guise of revamping its ideas or evolving a new strategy. We are still waiting, and I know that a document was issued, but nothing is happening. We may have missed the boat on the tourist potential for Northern Ireland's economy always because tourism should be a primary industry allied to the normal industrial base to which we usually refer when talking about economic development.

There is much talk about small industry and small business, but the small farmer, the small fisherman or the small self-employed builder are not placed in those categories. They are not treated with the same urgency and do not receive the same open-handedness from the public purse.

It is perhaps appropriate that in the order the Department of Agriculture is first on the list. I remind the Minister that on several occasions in the recent past I have reminded him of the great difficulties of small farmers whose real income is reducing year by year. Their profitability has virtually been wiped out in many of the sectors in which they operate, yet there does not seem to be genuine concern for what is, after all, Northern Ireland's base industry. The small farmer needs to be given even a temporary hand. I refer especially to the hill cow subsidy. I do so with some parochialism because my constituency is hilly. The hill livestock compensatory allowance was recently increased. The increase was welcome but totally derisory when compared with the inflation of the past couple of years. That can be added to the farmer's troubles over milk quotas and the green pound values. Presumably such issues will be addressed in Brussels at the end of this month and at the beginning of April. However, what happens if the result of the negotiations is unsatisfactory? Is there a contingency plan? If there is not, many small farmers in Northern Ireland will go under and, as I have said, they form the rock base for our whole population, especially in the rural areas.

I shall stray slightly from agriculture because I want to deal with fishery matters, which are particularly important in my constituency. I am extremely disappointed that the Minister who will reply to the debate and his colleague who is in charge of health and social services and who sits in another place have not seen fit to alleviate the grave hardship that fishermen in my constituency and in other constituencies in Northern Ireland, especially in North Down and Strangford, have suffered since December. The Minister knows the arguments well because I have made

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them to him verbally and in writing. It is pathetic that no real effort has been made to alleviate the problem. I understand that it would be primarily a DHSS programme, but I should like to think that when he is responding the Minister will lend his support to such a concept. He has not done so in the past.

Mr. John D. Taylor : Does the hon. Gentleman agree that the problem of unemployment benefits for fishermen is of national as well as provincial importance? Does he agree that we should press the Minister to make representations to his colleagues in the Department of Social Security?

Mr. McGrady : I welcome the intervention of the right hon. Member for Strangford (Mr. Taylor) and support his interesting idea. Such an approach would have my full backing.

If I may be parochial for a moment, I ask the Minister to expedite after 20 years the minimal proposal that is now on his desk for improving the harbour facilities at Ardglass in County Down. He knows the arguments very well, and I should like to think that he will make a positive and immediate response. Promises have been made, broken, made again, and then broken again for 20 years. Very little has been done to increase the fishing fleet at Ardglass. The improvements sought would at least serve as a salve to soothe the hardship that fishermen have endured since last December.

I commend the Minister for establishing the interdepartmental committee on rural regeneration. Although these are early days, and too soon to seek from the Minister a response to that committee's output, I ask him to treat its recommendations as a matter of urgency and not let them go the way of all previous rural programmes in Northern Ireland over the past two decades. They paid lip service to regeneration but were pigeonholed and never implemented. I hope that under the chairmanship of a permanent secretary in the Northern Ireland Office the interdepartmental committee will produce results in the near future.

Mr. Peter Bottomley : The degree of seriousness with which the question of regeneration is taken can be assessed by the fact that my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland and other Ministers met the rural action project team recently and announced that its work would continue to be funded. In addition to the interdepartmental committee headed by the permanent secretary to the Department of Agriculture for Northern Ireland, direct contact is being maintained. Although I am not one for making commitments or giving assurances, I feel strongly about implementing an effective rural improvement programme so that people can stay in the countryside rather than feel that they must slide towards Belfast or slide out of Northern Ireland. Such a contribution would be welcomed by Members on both sides of the House.

Mr. McGrady : I thank the Minister for that information, and I commend his course of action. I hope that he will always keep in mind the fact that rural regeneration depends entirely on a

multi-disciplinary approach. It is not simply a matter of farming or of housing ; it embraces a number of factors. I commend to

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the Minister a small community project in my own constituency, the Seeconnell community project, which is almost a microcosm of the Minister's attempts--and a very successful one.

I turn to the Department of Economic Development and refer to answers that I received to my questions Nos. 159 and 160, which I cite because they caused me both despair and great annoyance. I asked how many visits to Northern Ireland were made over the last three fiscal years 1986-87, 1987- 88 and 1988-89 by firms seeking inward investment. The numbers were 190, 180 and 214 respectively, making a total of 584. I asked for an analysis of the number of firms who were invited to visit or who did visit my constituency, which qualifies for full grant aid and is therefore deemed by the Government to be a deprived area. Over those same three years, the numbers were four, four and four respectively--less than 3 per cent. of the total number of inward investment visits.

When one analyses the entire answer, one can plot certain areas--Mid-Ulster is one of them--in which, it seems, there is a scarcity of visits. If one were to plot those areas politically, one could come to the conclusion-- though I should hate to do so--that there was a tendency not to bring investment to the areas of highest unemployment where the people have national leanings. If that is the case, I hope that it will be corrected. Certainly the statistics point clearly in that direction. I ask the Minister to look at the reply to which I have referred and to determine whether a change of direction by the Industrial Development Board is required.

Mr. Beggs : Does the hon. Gentleman accept that those of us who have been involved in bringing to Northern Ireland people considering new investment and job creation find it offensive that such people are encouraged by the IDB to go to the very areas that the hon. Gentleman is promoting? This is done despite personal contact by other Members working on behalf of their constituents.

Mr. McGrady : I cannot answer for the case to which the hon. Gentleman refers. That is one case, whereas I can quote five in which the course of events was in the opposite direction. That rather nullifies his remarks.

The statistics provided by the IDB to the Department support what I am saying. If I am wrong, those statistics are wrong ; if the statistics are right, I am right. It is as simple as that. The figures are there for anyone who wants to look at them.

On the question of industrial development--specifically, the attraction of industry to Northern Ireland--I should like to refer to two matters that have always puzzled me. The first, which has been mentioned already, is the cost of energy. Why is the cost of electricity constantly being increased more than is necessary to make the industry viable? Is it simply a case of creating artificial profitability for the purposes of privatisation? If, as appears to be the case, that is what is being done, it is detrimental to the concept of a cheap production area--a concept that the IDB is trying to sell abroad.

The second point is one which, to my mind, has never received any attention : why has the bank rate in Northern Ireland always been 2 per cent. higher than normal lending rates in the rest of the United Kingdom, even though the minimum lending rate is fixed in London and the sources and destinations of Nothern Ireland bank deposits are in London? An artificially dear economic climate is being

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created. Why is this allowed? Is it not a disincentive to investment? Would it not be cheaper to get finance elsewhere? It seems to me that this and the high cost of electricity are two self-imposed hurdles that we could do without.

Small farmers in my constituency are now being charged between £3, 000 and £6,000 to be provided with an electricity connection to their premises. They just cannot afford such a charge. That means that they have to do without electricity, so they do not modernise and, therefore, cannot increase their income. It is a vicious circle. I hope that the Under- Secretary of State, who is in charge of agriculture in the Province, will see whether it is possible to alleviate the problems of small farmers who do not have a mains electricity supply. It may be that Northern Ireland Electricity, with its very high overheads, has to make such charges, but the consumers certainly cannot afford to pay them. Thus small farmers find themselves in an impossible position.

The Minister did not mention housing, although I believe that the hon. Member for Leicester, South did. I am greatly concerned about this matter, and I obtained some figures yesterday. The Department says that the housing budget is better than it has ever been. The Housing Executive built 4,620 houses in 1981-82, but its target for 1990-91 is 1,000.

Mr. William Ross : We are all interested in housing. I should be grateful if the hon. Member would tell me under which heading in the order he finds housing. I looked, but it was not clear to me that it was mentioned anywhere. That worried me a great deal, and I hope to make that point later.

Mr. McGrady : I hope that the hon. Member will make that point and will support my comments. I was referring to its absence.

Mr. Stott : Vote 2 on page 8 provides

"For expenditure by the Department of the Environment on housing services, including certain grants in aid."

The hon. Member is therefore entitled to draw attention to housing problems under that heading.

Mr. McGrady : I am always grateful for assistance from any hon. Member. I thank the hon. Member for Wigan (Mr. Stott) for reminding me of that vote.

The Housing Executive is responsible for administering grants. In 1985-86 they amounted to £60 million, but they had been reduced to £32 million in 1989-90--a reduction of 60 per cent. There has been an 80 per cent. reduction in house building and a 60 per cent. reduction in the amounts available for grants. I strongly believe that there is a death wish over the Housing Executive, a body that I have ardently supported since 1973. Whether that has come about because of departmental restrictions or whether it has come from within, the Housing Executive seems to be about to fail in its primary purpose. Although one can admire its innovation, the outreach scheme and all the grant schemes that it operates, the basic purpose of a public housing authority is to provide housing for people who cannot otherwise afford it. The house building programme for 1990-91 has been reduced to a paltry 1,000 houses--an inadequate response to increasing housing needs. Housing Executive statistics show that the number of people who are in urgent need of housing has increased since last year.

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In referring to the Department of Health and Social Services, I shall be particularly parochial and refer to the on- going saga of the Downe hospitals in Downpatrick. It started when I began public life in 1961, believe it or not, and since then matters have been bandied about from pillar to post. The difficulty is that every time a conclusion is reached a new examination has to be carried out. We are suffering from paralysis by analysis. I ask the Minister to break the log- jam.

The case for the Downe replacements has been made. Two parts--the geriatric and the maternity sections--have been provided and the general surgical section remains to be provided. I should like the Minister to refer to his ministerial colleague, who cannot answer in the House, the on-going attempt to downgrade this group of hospitals so that someone with a financial knife can cut them off. I refer especially to the lack of urgency to provide ophthalmology services in the Downe unit of management and to fill the third permanent anaesthetist post, both of which have been promised for a considerable time, but only lip service has been paid to filling the need.

I also draw the Minister's attention to the St. Leonard's nursing home at Warrenpoint--a home for mentally and physically disabled people. Some of the residents have been there for 20 years ; they are a family and they are happy there. The unit is well managed and economical and the patients are well cared for. I have been asking the Southern health and social services board and the Department to still the rumour, which is causing great distress, that patients who have had close associations with the nursing home for two decades are now threatened with dispersal. I was assured that no decision had been made. Yet I now discover that one of the most tragic cases in the history of Northern Ireland--I shall not refer to the person by name, but the case has been the subject of a television documentary--has been moved out this week after 20 years in that environment. That completely contradicts the information given to me by the Department and the board and it is a despicable and inhuman action to have taken in the circumstances. If the Minister wants further details, I shall be happy to supply them.

The Department of Health and Social Services has made great play of the lack of take-up of family credit in Northern Ireland. But, as I said in opening my remarks, Northern Ireland is made up largely of small farmers and proprietors of small firms--many of them self-employed. Because of the tax system, building labourers, for example, have to be self-employed because of the exemption certificate qualifications. I ask the Department to simplify the form issued and the responses and proofs that they require. Otherwise people will be deprived of their entitlement because of the bureaucracy surrounding their claim. I recommend a much simpler amd more easily completed form and request for information.

9.32 pm

Mr. A. Cecil Walker (Belfast, North) : I join my hon. Friend the Member for Antrim, South (Mr. Forsythe) in criticising the way in which these orders are taken without our having the power to amend or debate them in any meaningful way. Now that there appears to be little prospect of a political settlement in Northern Ireland in the near future, will the Government face their

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responsibilities by granting parliamentary democracy to the Province and legislating for Northern Ireland in the same way as for all other parts of the United Kingdom?

I refer first to vote 2 of the Department of Economic Development vote. On the development of tourism, I welcome the appointment of Mr. Paul Lavery as the Northern Ireland tourist board's new marketing director. He takes over at a time of real challenge to the industry in both parts of Ireland. The tourist board is extending its marketing offensive into Europe. I hope that it will get an excellent response and that we shall have many more European visitors to our lovely Province.

As one who, on occasions, likes to indulge in a little angling, I am concerned that in some parts of Northern Ireland charges to local anglers have increased substantially. Those increases could be due in part to rising costs but in large part they are what someone in authority feels that the market will stand. In effect, "the market" is the overseas visitor, who is exploited by unscrupulous operators who milk him for his interest in his sport. In many cases, local anglers just cannot afford the exorbitant charges for the right to fish in their own rivers. Without the contribution of local anglers, who pay for bailiffing and other local services, the angling scene would become a free-for-all from which no one would benefit. I hope that the tourist board will recognise that unacceptable state of affairs which is prevalent in our good angling waters. The activities of those so-called entrepreneurs who rely on state services to control poaching and pollution must be curtailed so that everyone, visitors and anglers alike, can benefit from our natural resources. With regard to vote 3 and community projects, I am concerned about allegations that the Department of Economic Development is considering major cuts in the ACE--Action for Community

Employment--programme, particularly when it is generally believed that more funds will be made available in the forthcoming Budget. The Minister should be aware that the purpose of that scheme was to provide meaningful employment for our long-term unemployed. I know from experience how much a year's community work can mean to those unfortunate people who, through no fault of their own, are unemployed.

There can be no justifiable reason why any cut in the employment programme should be considered. Managers in the various projects should be more than capable of working within their existing budgets, particularly under the leadership of Mr. Cecil Graham and his staff who have done so much to make the ACE concept so successful in Northern Ireland.

With regard to vote 5, I refer to the previous appropriation debate in which I expressed concern about a decision to grant a prospecting licence for the Cavehill area of Belfast. I am still concerned about that and my concern is shared by more than 10,000 people who have expressed horror at the fact that that beautiful landscape might be subjected to any form of interference through mining.

The Minister should be aware of what happened in the town of Cavencaw in the Omagh district of County Tyrone, in the constituency of the hon. Member for Mid-Ulster (Rev. William McCrea), where a prospecting licence was granted to Rio Tinto-Zinc. I am sure that the

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