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Mr. Eggar : Obviously, my hon. Friend understands how we make money available for training on a year-by-year basis. That is necessitated by the way in which my Department is funded. If my hon. Friend wishes to draw a particular point to my attention, I shall be very happy to meet him to discuss it.
Unemployment, Cornwall
13. Mr. Matthew Taylor : To ask the Secretary of State for Employment what is the latest unemployment rate in Cornwall ; and what was the average figure in Cornwall in 1979.
Mr. Eggar : In January 1990 the rate of unemployment in the county of Cornwall and the Isles of Scilly was 10 per cent., compared with an average of 9.7 per cent. for 1979. Those figures are not adjusted to take account of seasonal influences or changes in coverage.
Mr. Taylor : The House may be aware of the recent announcement that one of the two remaining tin mines in my constituency and in Cornwall--the Wheal Jane tin mine--is to be closed. This is a matter mainly for the Department of Trade and Industry, which has been funding the mine. However, I hope that Employment Ministers will make a special effort to help with, and take into account, the employment problems that may arise in that immediate area as a direct result of closure, if it goes ahead, and as a result of spin-off losses.
Mr. Eggar : I am very sad to hear about those closure plans. I visited the mine, which, I think, is just outside the hon. Gentleman's constituency, some years ago. I understand what the hon. Gentleman is saying. However, I have to say that over the past year the fall in unemployment in his constituency has been sharper than the fall generally in the United Kingdom.
Health and Safety
14. Mr. Strang : To ask the Secretary of State for Employment whether he will make a statement on the Health and Safety Commission and Executive's annual report for 1988-89.
Mr. Nicholls : The report of the Health and Safety Commission and Executive was published on 26 February. Latest provisional statistics for 1988-89, published in the report, show an apparent levelling off of major injuries, which we very much welcome. But the number of fatalities, which include those from the Piper Alpha disaster, and
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high or increasing injury rates in particular industries demonstrate that there is not room for any relaxation of effort by industry to improve standards.Mr. Strang : In view of what the Minister said earlier, does he accept that no Opposition Member is suggesting that there is a direct, hard and fast relationship between the number of factory inspectors and the number of accidents? However, the report shows an unjustifiably high number of fatal accidents--something which was commented on at the press conference last month. Does the Minister accept that factory inspectors do very important preventive work, which improves the situation? Surely the Government must look at that again and take an initiative to increase the number of factory inspectors.
Mr. Nicholls : I can agree with a great deal of what the hon. Gentleman says. If he looks at the changes over the past two and a half years, he will accept that there has been a relatively late but welcome conversion to the proposition that mere inspector numbers do not automatically produce a decrease in accidents. Yes, inspectors have their place and, yes, that is why the HSE has been funded, but they are not the whole story.
Mr. Ian Bruce : As a result of the HSE report, has my hon. Friend found out whether the displaying of notices in all workplaces, giving the address and telephone number of the HSE, has ensured that employees and employers alert the HSE to many more cases of concern? Has my hon. Friend's Department looked in offices in the Palace of Westminster and seen how few seem to display those notices, which appears to be against the law?
Mr. Nicholls : I accept my hon. Friend's point about getting over to people the idea that there should be greater awareness of health and safety legislation. My hon. Friend asks me to pass judgment on a legal matter relating to the Palace of Westminster. I am tempted, but I shall decline.
Training and Enterprise Councils
15. Mr. Simon Hughes : To ask the Secretary of State for Employment how many corporate plans were submitted by 5 February and how many training and enterprise councils he anticipates giving approval to by 2 April.
Mr. Howard : Thirteen prospective training and enterprise councils have submitted their corporate plans and they are currently being considered. I am not prepared to speculate on the number that will begin operation on any particular date.
Mr. Hughes : The Secretary of State will be aware that many other hon. Members and I welcome the setting up of training and enterprise councils, but he will be aware also that they will be judged by their success. Will their corporate plans include targets for the number of traineeships, for the number of additional qualifications and for the reduction in the number of unemployed people as a result of the TECs? Does the right hon. and learned Gentleman realise that 50 per cent. and more of the work force has had no training? Does he agree that, unless that percentage is substantially reduced, any change in structure will be a failure, as many other initiatives have been?
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Mr. Howard : I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for his welcome for the TECs. I agree that they will be judged by their success. Not only will they be set targets, but a part of their income will depend on an assessment of their performance, and that is one reason why I am so confident that they will be a huge success.Low Pay
17. Mr. Wigley : To ask the Secretary of State for Employment when he last met representatives from the Low Pay Unit ; and what was discussed.
Mr. Nicholls : My right hon. and learned Friend has not met representatives from the Low Pay Unit.
Mr. Wigley : Does the Minister accept that those who are on low pay, many of whom are in the old industrial valleys and rural areas of Wales, are the very people who will be hardest hit by the poll tax? Those families will get no benefit from rebates. Will the hon. Gentleman take up this matter with the Chancellor of the Exchequer to ensure that, at the very least, the position of those people is safeguarded in that they will not be brought within the tax rate by the non-indexation of tax allowances?
Mr. Nicholls : As the hon. Gentleman says, there is a community charge rebate system. Some 7.5 million people will benefit from a rebate of up to 80 per cent. Obviously, everyone, including the Government, will watch with great interest how the scheme develops in practice.
Engineers
19. Mr. Rathbone : To ask the Secretary of State for Employment what steps he is taking to meet the demand for qualified engineers.
Mr. Eggar : It is a primary responsibility of employers to ensure that they attract, develop and retain qualified engineers. My Department, through the Training Agency, is taking action that will encourage employers to take a stronger lead in improving the supply of skills in industry, including engineering.
Mr. Rathbone : That action must be welcome. What liaison does my hon. Friend have with the Engineering Council to further its good work?
Mr. Eggar : I recently had the pleasure of discussing matters with the chairman of the Engineering Council, Sir William Barlow. The measures that we are introducing, including TECs, recognition of the important role of employers in defining vocational qualifications and our various initiatives to encourage business and education partnerships, will all help to improve engineering skills.
Health and Safety
20. Mr. Allen McKay : To ask the Secretary of State for Employment if he will make a statement on the Health and Safety Commission's annual report 1988-89.
Mr. Nicholls : I refer the hon. Gentleman to the reply I gave some moments ago to his hon. Friend the Member for Edinburgh, East (Mr. Strang).
Mr. McKay : Does the Minister agree that the greatest asset to industry is its work force and that the health and safety of that work force is of paramount importance? Is
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the Minister satisfied with the number of health and safety inspectors, and with what is he doing to increase the powers and numbers of health and safety inspectors?Mr. Nicholls : I accept what the hon. Gentleman said in the first part of his question and I pay tribute to the work of the inspectors. However, we must both accept that a mere increase in the number of inspectors is not the whole answer to the question, although it is a valuable contribution.
PRIME MINISTER
Engagements
Q1. Mr. Gwilym Jones : To ask the Prime Minister if she will list her official engagements for Tuesday 13 March.
The Prime Minister (Mrs. Margaret Thatcher) : This morning, I had meetings with ministerial colleagues and others. In addition to my duties in the House, I shall be having further meetings later today. This evening, I hope to have an audience of Her Majesty the Queen.
Mr. Jones : Does my right hon. Friend agree that it is an outrage for Members of this honourable House to incite others to break the law?
The Prime Minister : Yes, I totally agree with my hon. Friend. It is a negation of democracy and an appalling example to all young people, whom we urge to obey the rule of law, for without that, there can be no order. I welcome the condemnation by the right hon. Member for Islwyn (Mr. Kinnock) of the violence and of the 31 Opposition Members who have said that they will not obey the law. Those are his words and we now wait for him to follow them up with action.
Q2. Mr. Home Robertson : To ask the Prime Minister if she will list her official engagements for Tuesday 13 March.
The Prime Minister : I refer the hon. Gentleman to the reply that I gave some moments ago.
Mr. Home Robertson : We in Scotland-- [Interruption.] --if the right hon. Lady does not mind my borrowing that phrase--are still waiting for the answers to many of the questions from which she ran away when she visited our country last week. Do she and her hon. Friends recall that 11 out of 21 Scottish Tory Members of Parliament lost their seats in 1987, largely because of the poll tax? As she managed to make the draw for the semi-finals of the Scottish Football Association competition a week before the qualifying matches took place, would she now like to draw the next batch of losers on her own Back Benches before she herself bales out?
The Prime Minister : I should like the right hon. Member for Islwyn (Mr. Kinnock) to take action on the 31 Opposition Members who are refusing to pay the community charge and to know from the hon. Gentleman whether he himself believes in upholding the law.
Mr. Onslow : If my right hon. Friend needs reassurance, which I doubt, may I assure her that last Sunday's press reports of polls and plots against her were absolute poppycock? [Interruption.]
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Mr. Speaker : Order.The Prime Minister : I thank my right hon. Friend-- [Interruption.]
Mr. Speaker : Order. The House wants to hear the Prime Minister's reply.
The Prime Minister : I thank my right hon. Friend. I did not believe the reports anyway and thought that the usual source near to No. 10 Downing street, who dismissed them as bunkum and balderdash, got it absolutely right.
Q3. Mr. Cohen : To ask the Prime Minister if she will list her official engagements for Tuesday 13 March.
The Prime Minister : I refer the hon. Gentleman to the reply that I gave some moments ago.
Mr. Cohen : Will the Prime Minister respond to the report of the Policy Studies Institute, which showed that nearly 3 million households owed £3 billion by way of personal debt? As the poll tax will mean payments of 33 per cent. more than the rates cost last year and will represent an even larger burden on many families, and as mortgage rates are sky high and rents set to rise by 20 per cent., is the right hon. Lady aware that the Government are plunging people deeper and deeper into the red? Is she further aware that the British people are showing how fed up they are with being bled white and blue?
The Prime Minister : Nonsense. It will not have escaped the hon. Gentleman's notice that the rates of income tax are far below any that reigned in Labour's time in office, that they are now 25p in the pound as the standard rate and 40p in the pound as the upper rate. I remind the hon. Gentleman that if community charges are very high, that is the fault of Labour councils--
Hon. Members : What about Tory councils?
Mr. Speaker : Order. The Prime Minister.
The Prime Minister : It is-- [Interruption.]
Mr. Speaker : Order. The House must not be disorderly. We must hear the Prime Minister's reply to supplementary questions.
The Prime Minister : It is quite clear that it always costs more under Labour.
Mr. Allason : Does my right hon. Friend think, given the Banking Acts' requirement that fit and proper people should hold banking licences, that the brothers Fayed should hold a banking licence at Harrods?
The Prime Minister : That is a matter for the regulatory authorities, not for me. The regulations are clearly laid down. How the law is applied is a matter for those authorities. How a prosecution happens is a matter for the Attorney-General, who answered questions on that matter yesterday.
Mr. Kinnock : With that last answer, the whole House will have noticed the right hon. Lady's choosy view of law and order--
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Mr. Kinnock : Will the Prime Minister give an assurance that, despite the continued rise in retail sales, the Government will not resort to higher interest rates yet again?
The Prime Minister : My answer to the right hon. Gentleman's first comment is that I should have thought that he would know that prosecution is never a matter for politicians-- [Interruption.] He does not even know that. The day when a politician could institute prosecutions, the rule of law would end. The prosecuting authorities are independent and they are not politicians.
As for the figures of retail sales, which are up 2 per cent. on this time last year, I should point out that the previous year they were up by 4 per cent. and the year before that they were up by 8 per cent. So there is a steady progression downwards and therefore interest rates are working.
Mr. Kinnock : The Prime Minister should check the figures. This time last year the rise was 2.2 per cent., which is less than it has been in the last month. Does she not yet realise that her high interest rate policies are not controlling demand but are increasing inflation? That which she said would cure inflation is actually causing it. Will she admit that and not take a course that will add to the problems and make matters worse?
The Prime Minister : No. Retail sales this year are 2 per cent. above what they were this time last year. Last year they were 4 per cent. above what they had been the previous year, and the previous year the figure was 8 per cent. So there is a steady progression downwards in the growth of retail sales. There is no other way of getting inflation down than by increasing the price of money. If the hon. Gentleman reads what previous Labour Finance Ministers said, he will see that they took the same view.
Mr. Kinnock : Has not the Prime Minister grasped the idea that her policies are failing to manage demand? They are increasing inflation, decreasing manufacturing investment and clobbering every home buyer in the country. How is that helping to reduce inflation, which is an objective shared by all sensible people but not fulfilled by the Prime Minister and her policies?
The Prime Minister : But I thought that the right hon. Gentleman was complaining that demand in regard to retail sales is still pretty high. He cannot have it both ways. Either he is saying that people have no money, or he is saying that they have rather a lot, to make the retail sales higher than a year ago. In any case, we do not take lessons from the right hon. Gentleman on inflation, which rose under the previous Labour Government to 27 per cent.--a record for this century.
Mr. Churchill : Will my right hon. Friend spell out the consequences of any campaign of civil disobedience, as advocated by certain Opposition Members? Would not that starve local authorities of resources, thereby leading to tens of thousands of job losses in local government, and furthermore to the curtailment of services for the elderly and disabled? Is that what the Labour party wants?
The Prime Minister : My hon. Friend is absolutely correct. If people do not obey the law and pay their community charge--which is the fairest charge that we have ever had for local authorities, and is far fairer than the Opposition's alternative--the consequence will be that there will not be enough money for teachers or for
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community care to look after old people and children. Such people would be wilfully damaging those whose interests they claim to represent.Q4. Mr. Tony Lloyd : To ask the Prime Minister if she will list her official engagements for Tuesday 13 March.
The Prime Minister : I refer the hon. Gentleman to the reply that I gave some moments ago.
Mr. Lloyd : Is the Prime Minister aware that doctors in Manchester have now gone on record as saying that patients are dying because of a lack of intensive care beds? Those beds are not available because the authorities do not have the money to pay the trained staff. The Prime Minister normally gives us a long lecture at this point. Will she simply say what she intends to do to ensure that my constituents and those of my colleagues in that area do not die because of the lack of beds?
The Prime Minister : I can only say that more money has been made available by the taxpayer for the Health Service this year than ever before. This year, an additional £2.4 billion will be available, and next year there will be a further £3 billion. Altogether, that amounts to some £39 a week in respect of every family in the country. We look to regional and district health authorities to use that money well. We note that the great majority of them are able to do so, and provide services that most people find excellent.
Mr. Maples : Will my right hon. Friend find time today to congratulate the Labour-controlled council in Barking and Dagenham on having set a community charge of £280, which is just £2 over the Government's suggested figure? As that part of London is represented in the House by two shadow Cabinet members--one the chief spokesman on the environment--is not that an excellent example of what can be achieved, for them and us to present to other Labour-controlled councils?
The Prime Minister : My hon. Friend makes his point effectively. It is possible to live within the Government's guidelines for spending, and some Labour-controlled councils are already doing so. That only shows up the rest as deliberately trying to overspend to make it difficult for their residents.
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Q5. Mr. Fearn : To ask the Prime Minister if she will list her official engagements for Tuesday 13 March.
The Prime Minister : I refer the hon. Gentleman to the reply that I gave some moments ago.
Mr. Fearn : With 2 million more people in debt and 400,000 people two months in arrears in rates and mortgage payments, and with the divorce rate almost doubling, does not the Prime Minister recognise that she is crucifying the women of this country and family life?
The Prime Minister : No. Far more people are in owner-occupied houses now than 10 years ago and there are more women with jobs now than there ever have been. Separate taxation for married women will be introduced on 1 April, again for the first time, and that will be welcome to many people.
Q6. Mr. Bowis : To ask the Prime Minister if she will list her official engagements for Tuesday 13 March.
The Prime Minister : I refer my hon. Friend to the reply that I gave some moments ago.
Mr. Bowis : Has my right hon. Friend had time to read the report of the National Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Children, which links satanic practices with child abuse? Will she do everything in the Government's power to support the police and the child welfare agencies in stamping out such loathsome practices?
The Prime Minister : I saw the reports on the NSPCC report in the newspapers this morning. All hon. Members will be outraged that children may be sexually abused for the purposes of perversion or pornography, and everyone will be equally anxious to stamp that out. We have increased the penalties for child cruelty and we have tightened the law on child pornography by making possession of such material an offence. Tackling the problem remains a priority for the police, but we need evidence, and if people have evidence of cruelty to children they should not hesitate to place it before the police so that action can be taken as quickly as possible.
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