House of Commons Hansard Debates for 21 Mar 1990

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later this month to develop proposals for a Community wide scheme of positive environmental labelling for consumer products.

Ms. Quin : As progress on this matter in the European Community may turn out to be slow, will the Secretary of State commit himself to introducing such a scheme in this country if there has not been agreement by the EC within a specific time limit, for example the end of this year?

Mr. Patten : As the hon. Lady will know, we have taken the lead on this initiative in the European Community. The Commission has assured us that it will be possible to introduce proposals reasonably soon. I should like to see them in place, or at least agreed, by the end of this year. If we do not make the progress that we should like, we shall have to go ahead with a national scheme. The objective is to have in place national schemes which are compatible across the Community so that we are prepared for the single market in 1992.

World Cup (Security)

11. Mr. Pendry : To ask the Secretary of State for the Environment what steps his Department will take to ensure that security arrangements for British soccer fans at the World Cup are adequate and comprehensive.

The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for the Environment (Mr. Colin Moynihan) : We are providing assistance to the Italian authorities in respect of safety and security measures in connection with England's participation in the World Cup. My Department chairs an interdepartmental working party of officials, which also includes representatives from the police and the football authorities, to co- ordinate United Kingdom measures on preparation for the tournament.

Mr. Pendry : That is all very well, but will the Minister confirm that there will be exchanges between the Italian and English police authorities, that the intelligence that has been gathered by police spotters will be used in any operations, and that he will take action on alcohol restrictions of the kind that were so successful during the England -Holland match in Dusseldorf? Finally, does he believe--

Mr. Speaker : No. One question please, although I think that the hon. Gentleman has had two.

Mr. Moynihan : In fact, Mr. Speaker, I think the hon. Gentleman asked three questions, all of them important. Police spotters and closed- circuit television have proved invaluable in our determined efforts to reduce football hooliganism at domestic games, at the European championships and at international friendlies. The information gathered by, and expertise of, the spotters and the national football intelligence unit will be on offer to the Italian authorities. The hon. Gentleman will appreciate that I cannot comment on the detail of police operations.

The hon. Gentleman's supplementary question related to the exchange of police. That is already under way. As he will be aware, about 50 carabinieri are at present in England-- [Interruption.] --not, as some newspapers suggest, learning English as understood by football supporters. Their visit is devoted primarily to the policing of football.

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To answer the hon. Gentleman's third supplementary question, on the vital issue of alcohol restrictions, I assure him that I shall be discussing that matter in detail during my forthcoming visit to Sardinia.

Mr. Jack : Is my hon. Friend aware that many England soccer fans in Lancashire may be unable to travel to see the World Cup as a result of the excessive community charge demands of Lancashire county council? They could have travelled had the Conservative proposals--for a community charge of £60 per head less--been adopted.

Mr. Moynihan : I am only too well aware of the position expressed by my hon. Friend.

Mr. Menzies Campbell : Does the Minister appreciate that security at home is just as important as security abroad? Does he further appreciate how welcome was yesterday's announcement by the Chancellor of the Exchequer? Is he aware that many other sports--rugby league and rugby football, for example--will be affected by the Taylor committee recommendations and will he undertake to discuss with his right hon. Friend ways in which those sports may be assisted to make the changes which the Taylor recommendations necessarily involve?

Mr. Moynihan : The whole House will wish to join me in welcoming that announcement, which reflects the Government's concern to ensure that vital improvements to football grounds are made. I am certain that the football authorities will now take urgent steps to provide for the safety and comfort of their spectators by implementing as quickly as possible Lord Justice Taylor's recommendations. All-seater stadia are, as the Football Association and the main question recognise, a prerequisite to a successful and safe World Cup bid.

Mr. Batiste : Does my right hon. Friend agree that the improved facilities that will be provided in English football grounds as a result of yesterday's announcement by the Chancellor may make it possible for this country to host a future World Cup?

Mr. Moynihan : I agree with my hon. Friend. Yesterday's announcement will be warmly welcomed as being significant for sport. As the Football Association recognised in representations to the Secretary of State and myself, all-seater stadia are a pre-requisite. They are essential now for any country wishing to host the World Cup, and the twin aims--of ensuring the safety of spectators and of making sure that we have a sufficient number of all-seater stadia to host the World Cup--are doubly welcome.

Mr. Denis Howell : May I, from the Opposition Benches, endorse our appreciation of the Chancellor's action yesterday which the Minister will recall we advocated in the debate in January, after negotiations with the pools promoters? Will the Minister be more active in relation to the potential explosion of violence in Italy? Will he comment on the reports that the thugs of Holland and of this country are already arranging their own fixtures for a celebratory punch-up? That would be disastrous.

Is it true that the police have only nine names on their computer to use in relation to part II of the Football Spectators Act 1989? Will we be able to stop only nine of these evil crooks going abroad and causing trouble? What

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will the Minister do to make sure that the hundreds of people who misbehaved last year are not allowed to leave these shores for the World Cup?

Mr. Moynihan : We hope that part II of the Football Spectators Act will be in place by the end of April. The right hon. Gentleman is right that it is vital that it should be in place before the World Cup and that everything possible should be done to assist the Italian Government and authorities in minimising trouble during the World Cup and in deterring the hooligan factor. Five major interdepartmental meetings have been held in the past year ; I have been to Rome and I shall shortly be going there again and to Sardinia. We shall be offering every possible assistance, through the Home Office, the Foreign Office and my Department. If the right hon. Gentleman has any additional ideas, we shall look at them closely.

I am grateful to the right hon. Gentleman for his initial comments. That we have taken careful note of the representations that he and the hon. Member for Stalybridge and Hyde (Mr. Pendry) have been making for many years was evidenced by the measures announced by my right hon. Friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer yesterday.

Local Government Finance

12. Mr. Winnick : To ask the Secretary of State for the Environment what are the latest representations he has received over the implementation of the poll tax.

Mr. David Hunt : My right hon. Friend the Secretary of State and I continue to receive representations on a wide range of issues concerning the community charge.

Mr. Winnick : Can the Minister give any explanation why, despite the sustained Government propaganda, the poll tax is so widely hated throughout Britain, including Mid-Staffordshire? I know that the Minister is not yet a member of the Cabinet, but why do not the members of the Cabinet stand up to the Prime Minister in the same way as Tory councillors have done by rightly resigning the Tory whip in many parts of the country in opposition to this notorious measure?

Mr. Hunt : Before the hon. Gentleman gets carried away about alleged unfairness, does he think it fair that people living in Conservative wards in the Walsall area, regardless of how they vote and regardless of their circumstances, should have only £298 per head spent on them by the council--the Government's assumed community charge for Walsall--while people in Labour areas have £425 per head spent on them under the Labour council's community charge? That is the policy of the hard Left on the council which the ruling Labour group accepted on 5 March. Its policy is to look after its own areas and blow the rest. That is unfair, it is a scandal and the hon. Gentleman should condemn it.

Mr. Donald Thompson : Several tens of thousands of people in my constituency will receive rebates and transitional relief. Is my hon. Friend sure that everybody who is entitled to those reliefs will get them?

Mr. Hunt : We must do everything possible to ensure that they do. Earlier this afternoon the hon. Member for Sheffield, Brightside (Mr. Blunkett) said that people with savings of more than £10,000 would not be entitled to a

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rebate ; that is incorrect. Equally incorrect was his previous statement that people would not be entitled to transitional relief, or would lose their right to transitional relief, where a council was spending higher than the Government's assessment. If we joined in putting across the positive message to 10 million people that they are entitled to rebate, with the additions of yesterday, and to 7.5 million people that they are entitled to transitional relief, we would all be doing much better by the British people.

Mr. Gould : How many representations has the Minister received from Tory local authorites across England and Wales which have combined to produce poll tax bills an average of 31 per cent. above Government projections? That is within a whisker of the national figure of 35 per cent. Can he guarantee that there will be no further protest resignations by Tory councillors to add to the 18 in West Oxfordshire, and the nine who resigned yesterday in Humberside?

Mr. Hunt : I have received a number of protests and representations from Tory areas about the extent to which they must pay into the safety net to protect losing areas, which in the main are Labour areas. The hon. Gentleman should look again at the calculations. If he took the safety net contributions out of the comparison, he would find that the average community charge in Labour areas was considerably above that in Conservative areas.

Mr. Moss : Did my hon. Friend see yesterday's newspaper articles revealing that in Labour-controlled Islington the community charge would be £68 less per head if the council did not dish out money to fringe groups? Does my hon. Friend agree that the best way to get the community charge down is to get rid of Labour councils?

Mr. Hunt : I could not agree more. I hope that, as the pain of accountability hits Labour councils, they will begin to listen to their ratepayers and their future community charge payers. As for the newspaper article, I look forward to The Sun shining on the truth of Labour irresponsibility in the days to come.

Housing, Liverpool

13. Mr. Wareing : To ask the Secretary of State for the Environment if he will visit Liverpool to study its housing problems with a view to reviewing its housing investment programme.

Mr. Chope : I have no plans to review Liverpool's main housing investment programme allocation for the coming year which is to be increased by 73.2 per cent. compared with this year.

Mr. Wareing : If the Minister came to Liverpool he would realise how horribly below the necessary level the Government's housing investment programme is. The people of Liverpool believe that they are being discriminated against on narrow ideological grounds. Liverpool has more than its share of Boswell and Boot defective houses, and that is not the people's or the council's fault. More than 700 people who bought their houses at the Government's behest now cannot sell them. When will the Government do something about that, and live up to what Liverpool people, who bought their houses under the Government's diktat, expect from them?

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Mr. Chope : The Government have been incredibly generous to Liverpool with taxpayers' money. Next year's HIP allocation for Liverpool is the third highest in the country, at more than £33 million. On top of that, next year the housing revenue account subsidy for Liverpool amounts to about £68 million, which is more than £1,000 per dwelling.

Mr. Hind : If my hon. Friend visits Liverpool, as the hon. Member for Liverpool, West Derby (Mr. Wareing) suggests, perhaps he would travel on to west Lancashire

Mr. Speaker : Order. Not today, please.

Mr. Hind : --where he will note that the misbehaviour of Liverpool city council over the years, in overtaxing its tenants and its industry has resulted in many of its current problems, such as loss of grant. Does my hon. Friend agree that the real truth is that Liverpool city council has landed Liverpool in the mess that it is in today?

Mr. Chope : I agree with my hon. Friend. In many respects, Liverpool has been the author of its own misfortune. That is especially true with defective housing. Whereas most councils have dealt with 60 to 65 per cent. of their defective houses, Liverpool has got around to dealing with only 5 to 10 per cent. That is why the hon. Member for Liverpool, West Derby (Mr. Wareing) has a problem in his constituency.

Homelessness

14. Miss Hoey : To ask the Secretary of State for the Environment if he has developed any new proposals to alleviate homelessness.

17. Mr. Fearn : To ask the Secretary of State for the Environment if he has any plans to bring forward proposals to reduce the number of homeless people in England and Wales.

Mr. Michael Spicer : I shall very shortly be announcing allocations for 1990-91 of the two-year programme of additional resources to meet the problem of homelessness in London and the south-east. These will total £112 million for local authorities and should result in more than 5,000 additional lettings next year.

Miss Hoey : I thank the Minister for his reply and urge him to make his announcement very quickly. Is he aware of the special needs resulting from homelessness in the Waterloo area, particularly in the bull ring? Does he know that the money to be made available for the borough of Lambeth will not make it possible to deal with that special problem? Will he recognise that fact by coming up with a new project for the area with which the London borough could help? As he is a new Minister, will he share a walkabout with me some evening in the next fortnight so that he may see the area for himself?

Mr. Spicer : Much as I would enjoy accompanying the hon. Lady round the bull ring, it would be a little superfluous as I have already been there to look at the problems. I agree with the hon. Lady that people living rough in the area present a special problem. The question, which we are addressing very urgently, is what can be done about it without encouraging people to leave home. People

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leaving home early and split marriages are major causes of rooflessness. The allocations that I have announced today will, of course, help.

Mr. Fearn : Does the Minister agree that the extra amounts allocated for hostels and for counselling are far too small?

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Mr. Spicer : There are 50,000 hostel places in this country--21,000 of them in London alone. The question is whether the throughput is fast enough. One reason behind what I said today is that we want to provide more fixed abodes. We want to provide housing to which people currently in hostels may go. That is precisely why we have targeted this extremely generous amount of money as we have.

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