House of Commons Hansard Debates for 23 Mar 1990

Sir Philip Goodhart : I entirely agree with my hon. Friend. I am willing to pass him a pen in the hope that he will autograph his pamphlet which, in view of my own cash flow problems, I hope he will give me free.

We need to look anew at the way in which British Rail should handle that freight problem, and I believe that my hon. Friend's proposals are entirely sensible.

We shall face a crunch in a few weeks' time. We know that the main players in the Channel tunnel rail link game are to meet the Minister, when they will tell him, "If you don't put up the money, there will be no chance of a high-speed or freight rail link being built." I have an ambivalent attitude towards the Channel tunnel. I do not dispute that it would be a pity if, having progressed so far, that extraordinary engineering project was not completed. However, I suspect that many of my constituents hope in their hearts that the tunnel will fail financially--and I believe that it will, unless my hon. Friend the Minister makes public money available soon. 11.20 am

Mr. Richard Livsey (Brecon and Radnor) : I congratulate the hon. Member for Christchurch (Mr. Adley) on bringing his motion before the House. If the hon. Gentleman were moved to the Government Front Bench, there is even a chance that the Government might be saved--but I do not expect that to happen.

The rail system in my constituency was butchered by Beeching when his axe fell. Some 110 rail men lost their jobs when the lines from Brecon to Swansea, to Newport, to Merthyr, to Hereford and to Newtown were all closed in 1962. There is a strong case for reopening at least one of those lines and connecting it to the national rail network. The population in my area has increased considerably. In the town of Brecon, it has grown by one third. There is clearly a need for that part of my constituency to be linked again with the national rail system. In a more enlightened age, that may happen.

The debate concerns rail investment on an equal basis with road investment. It is ludicrous for the rail system to be judged by a criterion of an 8 per cent. return on capital investment. Road congestion costs this country £20 billion per annum, and half that is accounted for in the London area alone. We are paying that massive on-cost every year as a consequence of neglecting the rail system. The British Rail network is one of the few in Europe whose investment is not judged by cost benefit analysis. In recent months, the Government have changed their attitude very slightly and the Department of Transport is beginning to think again. A comparison between the French and British railways reveals the extent of the problem. Over the next 10 years, the French will invest £2

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billion per annum in rail capital projects, whereas in the 1990-91 financial year, British Rail will invest just £618,000--a sum wholly inadequate to sustain the system.

What are the consequences of that differential in investment? I, together with other members of the Welsh Select Committee studying Channel tunnel rail links with the Continent, found--as was said by the hon. Member for Beckenham (Sir P. Goodhart)--that SNCF's TGV virtually knocked out air traffic between Lyons and Paris, and over the past 10 years it has carried 100 million passengers. That success has enabled further investment in the TGV Atlantique route between Paris and Rennes. There continues to be a vast growth in rail passenger traffic in France.

Construction will begin shortly on a rail route of 114km that will bypass Paris, at a cost of £1.7 billion. It will also link Charles de Gaulle airport to the rail system, making that route the hub of the European transport system. It will cut two hours from the rail journey between Lyons and Lille in northern France, as trains will not have to travel through Paris. That is what I call a transport system with vision. The scope exists not only for increasing passenger traffic but freight. There is also massive scope for construction in this country of a Berne gauge spine to take all freight traffic, as we have massive problems in transferring freight between the continental rail system and our own.

Mr. Roger King : I listened with interest to the hon. Gentleman's comments on the construction of a rail route bypassing Paris. Does he imagine that London residents would accept the construction of such a link if British Rail proposed building one around the capital? Experience suggests that however green rail travel might appear to be, no one wants it.

Mr. Livsey : I shall come to that point shortly. I believe that the British public would accept such a project.

Mr. Jeremy Corbyn (Islington, North) : Can the hon. Member for Brecon and Radnor (Mr. Livsey) say how many miles of motorway could be built for the £1.7 billion that it is costing to construct 114km of French rail bypass?

Mr. Livsey : I cannot instantly recall the cost of constructing one mile of motorway, but perhaps another hon. Member can do so. However, I am sure that the figure is very high.

Mr. Adley : That question can be answered by pointing out that it cost £2 billion to reopen the Thameslink line that already existed. The answer to the point made by my hon. Friend the Member for Birmingham, Northfield (Mr. King) is that most of the lines for a rail bypass around London also already exist and only small additional links would need to be constructed between them. Many of the existing lines are currently unused, and most are underused.

Mr. Livsey : I thank the hon. Member for Christchurch for that expert information.

The criterion of an 8 per cent. return on capital militates against specific projects. As the hon. Member for Swansea, East (Mr Anderson) said, it militates against investment in the south Wales, Bristol, Great Western line, which will not be electrified under that criterion. However, electrification would proceed under cost benefit analysis. One consequence of the criterion is that there will be no

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daytime links to the Channel tunnel and to the Continent because of the absence of electrification. That means that south Wales, Bristol and the south-west, Hereford and Gloucester, Oxford, Swindon and Reading will have no direct link with the Channel tunnel. That is absolute madness.

Why cannot specific projects be judged by cost benefit analysis? Why not have a London rail bypass? The costs of the M25 and of its widening have already been great in terms of environmental damage, so why not construct a high-speed rail link running alongside the M25? Who from the regions and countries of Britain actually wants to stop in London? We want to travel to Madrid, Moscow, or to eastern Europe, as it is opened up. We do not want to stop in London and to experience its massive problems of traffic congestion.

There is no reason why the bypass could not be linked with mainline stations in London, with speed limits for trains of 60 or 70 mph. It would avoid dragging up half of London and the suburbs and would link with the national rail system. It would mirror the Paris bypass, which has been costed at £1.7 billion, and would speed up travelling times between the regions and the Continent for passengers and freight. It would benefit the environment and would reduce the number of people and the amount of traffic in London. Its environmental cost would be far less than putting masses of concrete over southern Britain for more roads. In the context of 1992 and beyond, it would have many benefits for British industry and tourism.

It may be asked how we would find the money to pay for that bypass. In the Budget, the Chancellor paid off £7 billion of the national debt, and some of that money would have been better invested in our rail infrastructure.

The cost to the environment of the road system is immense. The Department of Transport forecasts a 142 per cent. increase in road transport by 2025. People in the south-east should not shrink from seeking basic improvements in rail infrastructure, because more roads will be far worse for the environment.

Figures for 1987 show that 98 million tonnes of carbon dioxide is emitted from road traffic per annum in Britain. The figures for nitrous oxide and carbon monoxide are enormous. When one considers that it takes 25 acres of land to construct one mile of motorway, one appreciates the environmental cost of road systems.

The statistics on road accidents are horrific. Figures for between 1980 and 1986 show that 40,000 people were killed on the roads, whereas over the same period there were only 32 deaths on the railways. What a safety comparison.

Rail subsidies vary tremendously between one country and another. The subsidy per kilometre of track in Italy is £10.52p, in France £5.83p but in Britain £1.95p. The public service obligation is essential to some routes, particularly to the central Wales line in my constituency. It is assisted by that subsidy and has remained open sometimes because it runs through five marginal constituencies. The fares situation is also scandalous. The Select Committee on Welsh Affairs discovered that fares in Britain are 60 per cent. higher than in France, where rail transport is much more competitive. British Rail's fares policy paints a very unattractive picture. In 1978, a return ticket from London to Brighton cost £5.65p, but in 1989

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it cost £16.20--an increase of 200 per cent., while the increase in the retail prices index over the same period was 115 per cent. That is a quite astonishing state of affairs.

When the Channel tunnel is open, the British public will be horrified by the comparison between the modern continental system and our ancient and inefficient system. They will travel on faster, cleaner and cheaper services and will demand the same for this country. We need to have the foresight now to do something about it. For six months, the Select Committee on Welsh Affairs studied links between Wales and the Channel tunnel. It recommended, first, electrifiction of the south Wales and west of England routes to enable direct links to the Channel tunnel. That is the only way that we shall get them. Secondly, it advocated electrification of the Crewe and Holyhead route and talks with the Irish Government on how best to achieve it. Thirdly, it advocated a Berne gauge freight link to penetrate all major manufacturing areas of Britain to enable industry to compete with that on the Continent. Fourthly, it advocated cost benefit analysis of rail investment. It regarded that as extremely important. Fifthly, it advocated repeal of section 42 of the Channel Tunnel Act 1987. That Act must cover not only private sector fundng but mixed funding. We are burying our heads in the sand if we allow section 42 to cover only private sector funding. I gather that Trafalgar House, one of the main groups involved in the Dover to London link, is screaming for public money because it cannot make that route pay. Sixthly, the Select Committee advocated that British Rail should treat European funds as a net increase in resources. Such a programme is required.

There is little vision in the Department of Transport. The Secretary of State and the Minister for Public Transport should radically change their policy and thinking on rail investment. Our forefathers would have looked with astonishment on our attitudes to rail investment and on the Government's blinkered view on the means of evaluating rail investment.

It is time for us to roll up our sleeves and to bring Britain into the 21st century with a modern rail system serving all our citizens and industry, bringing tourists into this country and creating greater international understanding and offering us the quality of life that we desperately need.

11.37 am

Mr. Gary Waller (Keighley) : I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Christchurch (Mr. Adley) on his choice of subject and on the distinctive style with which he presented his case.

The surveys that have been carried out of the priorities of those considering locations for industrial investment reveal very clearly that good transport links are high on their list and that they vie with the availability of skilled labour. Invariably, they are even regarded as more important than such factors as the availability of regional grants. As far as rail links are concerned, the Bradford area has been competing under the burden of a real handicap. For reasons of historic and geographic accident, the city has never enjoyed the access to the national rail network possessed by its larger neighbour, Leeds, and other cities of comparable size. The position might have been better if, in the last century, two competing rail companies had not left Bradford with two stations

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permanently separated and half a mile apart. I am sure that my hon. Friend the Member for Christchurch could give its history in considerable detail.

A fleeting opportunity now exists to redress the balance and to provide the city and its immediate hinterland with an advantage that would act as a crucial lever in attracting further private investment to an area that certainly needs it. Recently, under the wise leadership of local Conservative control, Bradford has attracted more than £1 billion of investmemt in the west end, Forster square and other imaginative redevelopment schemes. However, a city whose traditional industries are textiles and engineering can never rest on its laurels because it will always be vulnerable to fleeting changes in the economic climate, in fashion and demand.

The major rail proposals which are about to come before my hon. Friend the Minister of State for consideration involve the electrification of the route between Leeds and Bradford, Forster square via Shipley, and the local network immediately to the north ; the Airedale line from Leeds and Bradford through Shipley and Keighley to Skipton ; and the Wharfedale line from the two cities to Burley in Wharfedale and Ilkley. These proposals follow hard on the heels of the encouraging results of the intermediate Transmark study for the passenger transport executive which was completed in January.

Inadequate rail services are a major headache for thousands of commuters and essential travellers. Overcrowded and often unreliable trains largely reflect burgeoning demand combined with inadequate investment in the past. Electrification will create a fast, reliable service on each of the three routes that I have mentioned and will enable British Rail InterCity services on the new electrified east coast main line--we are delighted to have it--to run on to Bradford from London and all points in between.

The capital costs of these schemes require an investment of some £20 million for wiring the routes and providing the power supply and for engineering works to bridges, tunnels and the lineside to provide adequate clearance and safety. We are talking also about an initial 17 train units, at a cost of up to £2 million each. The amounts are not inconsiderable, but they must be set in the context of the fact that the local authority has a revenue budget equivalent to that total figure every few months.

The time scale is crucial. The design and implementation of the scheme could take more than two years. There is now a limited window of opportunity which could enable the scheme to be operational by May 1993 at a cost that would be considerably lower than if a decision were delayed. To take full advantage of this opportunity, authorisation by the Secretary of State must be granted by May, and I realise how little time this gives for a decision.

The need for a speedy decision relates largely to the completion of electrification works on the southern section of the east coast main line. It would enable the West Yorkshire PTE to take advantage of the Doncaster electrification depot, providing an immediate saving of £650,000, and to carry out the works at the most favourable price, for it is likely to rise by at least 10 per cent. once the main line works are complete and the team is dispersed. There is also a chance to order the trains at optimum prices by linking them to an existing order from British Rail. The passenger transport authority, Bradford city council and British Rail are together saying to my hon. Friend the Minister of State that they believe that the

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scheme can be justified not only in terms of the investment criteria of the Department of Transport by bringing about additional revenue and cost savings, showing more than an 8 per cent. rate of return over its lifetime, but in terms of the broad economic and environmental benefits to millions of people in Bradford and west Yorkshire which would be highly visible, even if they were hard to quantify.

As for operating costs, electric trains require less maintenance than diesels and, because they are more reliable and efficient, not as many are needed. The supplanted diesel rolling stock could relieve other overcrowded services in the county. It is calculated that the savings to local services could be £900,000 per annum, in addition to operational savings for InterCity. The present plans for British Rail's Bradford services involve a change of traction at Leeds, because the Leeds-Bradford line can take only diesels at present. Obviously the improvements in reliability and performance will result in more passengers on local rail services, generating considerable additional revenue. Reliability and comfort are critical factors, as they are in many other places. At present, many trains are late and too many passengers are unable to find a seat at peak periods. Potential customers are prepared to pay more for their journey if they can be sure of travelling in comfort and on time. I am prepared to say for myself that some increase in fares would strengthen the case for electrification arising out of the Transmark study. It is likely also that an improved service would attract more revenue to British Rail by drawing local people to link with InterCity.

The environmental return will come about largely by a transfer from car to train. There are projected road improvements in the Aire and Wharfe valleys, but their time scale is uncertain and they will remain relatively congested for years to come. Electrification provides dividends in terms of less air pollution--a factor which will also count for more in the future.

I now come to the wider economic case for Bradford electrification. The city council has said that the provision of good public transport is crucial to the city's future. Only half of Bradford's households have access to a car, a figure well below the national average. Electrification is, in effect, the only way that Bradford could truly be retained on the British Rail InterCity network--which I hope everyone would agree is vital. It would surely be unthinkable for the fifth largest metropolitan district and the eighth largest city in Britain to be relegated to a branch line, as would, in effect, be the case.

Connections to the InterCity network and to the Continent via the Channel tunnel are particularly vital for a city that is so dependent on trade. The textile industry in particular has not had an easy time in recent years. Many hon. Members know that in a decade jobs in textiles and clothing have fallen from 850,000 to well under 500,000. This morning, I heard of the loss of more than 60 jobs at a highly efficient textile company, Laxton Crawford, of Silsden in my constituency. The industry has survived because of its export successes. Wool textile exports in particular have been an outstanding triumph, with the United States, Europe and Japan among those clamouring for our products.

The Chamber of Commerce has pointed to the continual need for two-way traffic between supplier and customer and the fact that overseas customers in particular look to a direct link with their Bradford supplier. What

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would they think of a city so off the beaten track as to merit no electrified link with the main line only a few miles away? If action is not taken before the Channel tunnel comes into operation, London and the south-east will be more accessible by train from northern France than from northern England, leaving our traditional home market wide open to attack. Can one imagine the French contemplating that for their country?

Business people in Bradford have shown that they will use trains if a good service exists. Some 83 per cent. of firms participating in a recent chamber of commerce survey said that they would transfer travel from other forms of transport if local electrification came. Of course, demand has increased enormously in recent years, and in May the new all-electric BR timetable between London and west Yorkshire will have more trains and they will travel faster. As yet, few of those journeys are, or can be, made directly between Bradford and the capital.

I am sure that many people will agree that good train services are important to tourism. Bradford has become the model to which other cities around the world look if they wish to see how one can sell an industrial centre as a tourist magnet. Tourism now accounts for more than £56 million per annum in revenue to the local economy and an increasing proportion of the work force depends on it. The National Museum of Film, Photography and Television and the Bronte" museum at Haworth attract more than 1 million visitors each year. The former, despite its success in drawing over twice the number of expected visitors, describes the absence of a direct link with the south as a severe constraint on its ability to gain business.

The same factor will clearly apply when the Victoria and Albert museum relocates its Indian collection in the city soon. In my constituency, Haworth and the Keighley and Worth Valley railway, to which I am glad to pay tribute, are very much part of the tourism trail. They had a problem in attracting the overseas visitor who is more likely to be dependent on public transport. For Bradford as a whole, the emphasis should be on weekend breaks and short holidays throughout the year, but those especially depend on good direct rail links.

For long-suffering commuters and shoppers in places such as Keighley and Ilkley, electrification of the Airedale and Wharfedale lines cannot come soon enough. Railway staff are tired of having to placate passengers who have complained for too long of delays, overcrowding and unreliability. They demand--and deserve--an improvement. More reliable trains with an increased capacity of 50 per cent., from 200 to 300 passengers, will fit that bill. Two years ago, my hon. Friend the Minister, after considerable negotiation, approved a scheme for the reintroduction of trolley buses in Bradford. The trolley buses were to be of a novel and advanced design. As I know my hon. Friend will recall, there were detailed negotiations on the project because issues relating to the investment criteria that did not apply to other more conventional proposals were raised. As my hon. Friend may be aware, the trolley bus project has run into problems because the manufacturers are now projecting far higher costs for the vehicles. I am sure that it would be regretted if it were not possible to proceed with that highly innovative scheme. Nevertheless, I believe that I speak for most people in the area when I say that, of the two

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projects, electrification, whose immediate benefits would be spread far more widely, must be the priority. It would be tragic if both opportunities were missed

The PTE is putting forward a case for section 56 grants. However, the major demand for capital expenditure will not arise for a year or so, so the vital need is for the Department of Transport to give the project general authorisation so that the PTE can start to invest out of its own resources. Some modest expenditure, for example, would be advisable to protect the depot at Doncaster from vandalism until electrification work recommenced.

The people of west Yorkshire are using the train in increasing numbers. New stations are opening such as the one at Steeton and Silsden in my constituency. The green prospectus must rely to a considerable extent on rail as a vital part of the transport infrastructure. We should not and cannot force people to use trains, but we can make their use sufficiently attractive to make the choice of trains easier. We should not readily be forgiven if we did not grasp a major opportunity to show our faith in the future. 11.52 am

Ms. Joan Ruddock (Lewisham, Deptford) : I apologise to the House for the absence of my hon. Friend the Member for West Bromwich, East (Mr. Snape). He is privileged to have been a member of the campaign team for Sylvia Heal and he is, therefore, properly celebrating our party's considerable victory in Mid-Staffordshire.

I congratulate the hon. Member for Christchurch (Mr. Adley) on the motion. It notes :

"the Government's commitment to maintain the existing railway network".

Millions of railway passengers have good reason to doubt the strength of that commitment. Only last week, as other hon. Members have pointed out, the Government-appointed chairman of the Central Transport Consultative Committee, Major-General Lennox Napier warned that British Rail is in a mess. The committee met British Rail representatives on 27 February to discuss the 1989 corporate plan which was published last December. The committee was so concerned by what it learned that it took the unusual step of publishing a special report. The report makes damning reading. It says that the new tougher financial targets set by the Secretary of State last December are seen as

"a virility symbol, which must be achieved even though the financial climate has changed and whatever the cost to the passenger in service cutbacks, delayed investment or higher fares." The report concludes that with the public service obligation grant already cut by 51 per cent. since 1983, demand for further cuts in grant have caused a financial crisis in British Rail.

The report lists services that are to be cut and trains that are to be shortened as a result of that financial crisis. The cuts will cause horrendous overcrowding and a deterioration in services. One would have thought that the Secretary of State would be worried that the new tougher financial targets were having a damaging effect on rail services, but not a bit of it. He said that it was far too early to judge the corporate plan and, as he told the House on 12 March, the problem was that the major- general had been listening to too many speeches of my hon. Friend the Member for Kingston upon Hull, East (Mr. Prescott).

I do not wish to cast any doubt on the persuasiveness of my hon. Friend, but we can safely say that Major-General Lennox Napier, who was educated at

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Radley and Sandhurst, was a former commanding officer of the Royal Regiment of Wales and was appointed to his current role by the Department of Trade and Industry, is unlikely to be unduly influenced by Labour politicians. His message to the Secretary of State last week was clear. He said :

"It is up to BR to come clean and tell the Government that it must go back to the drawing board. Large cuts in investment schemes are to be announced. British Rail is in trouble and that means that the passenger is in trouble. A change of direction and a fundamental rethink is needed by British Rail and the Government."

I should have thought that the Secretary of State would want to discuss the matter before rejecting these arguments out of hand, but that was not the case. Last Friday, he told the annual meeting of Northampton Conservative women that he fully endorsed the cuts in rail services. He said that it made sense to cut loss-making services.

As the CTCC report clearly shows, how can it make sense to reduce timetables and shorten trains on services that are already grotesquely overcrowded? How can it make sense to delay the reopening of the Luton to Dunstable line and the electrification of the lines between Ashford and Hastings, Hurst Green and Uckfield, and Reading and Gatwick until at least 1995?

When we need to create an image of a clean, modern railway, why have improvement schemes at 14 stations throughout Network SouthEast also been delayed? At a time when we desperately need to promote park-and-ride schemes as a means of relieving traffic congestion on the roads, what sense does it make to scrap £6 million of investment in new car parking facilities at another 14 stations in the south-east?

Mr. Eric S. Heffer (Liverpool, Walton) : My hon. Friend is making an important point. Is she aware--I am sure that she is--of the cuts that have led to a lack of alternative engines when they are needed? I shall give an example. The Minister for Roads and Traffic and I were travelling from Chesterfield across the tops of the mountains, because we had to be diverted, to Manchester. The train broke down. It took one and a half hours to get a new engine. It was the middle of summer and everybody was fed up and worn out. The Minister did not make a protest. I was the only person who suggested that something should be done. We waited for an hour and a half. People who travel from Liverpool to London as regularly as I do know that almost every week the train breaks down, although there has been a slight improvement recently. The breakdowns are a result of a lack of investment and of cuts under this Government.

Ms. Ruddock : I thank my hon. Friend for his contribution. What he has described is typical of the regular experience of far too many passengers on British Rail today.

The most worrying aspect of the CTCC report is that it lists more than 200 stations in Network SouthEast that are left unstaffed for all or part of the day. Women passengers are being put at risk simply so that Network SouthEast can meet the financial targets set by the Government. Surely the Government cannot be oblivious of the fact that women are fearful of using our British Rail services at these unstaffed stations.

Mr. Roger King : Men are fearful as well.

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Ms. Ruddock : Yes, men as well. However, the hon. Gentleman would acknowledge that it is especially difficult for women. The survey conducted by British Rail said that 50 per cent. of women tried to avoid using public transport after dark. That is unacceptable in a civilised country. Are we to assume that, to the Government, the staff who provide help and information to passengers and provide women passengers in particular with a greater feeling of personal security are just another loss-making service?

In his Northampton speech, the Secretary of State failed to address the fundamental problem revealed in the corporate plan, which was identified by the Opposition more than a month ago and by the CTCC again last week. All the planned forecasts are based on economic assumptions that are hopelessly overoptimistic. The three-year £3.5 billion investment programme assumes economic growth of 2.7 per cent. with consumer spending forecast to increase by 2.9 per cent. Yet on Tuesday the Chancellor admitted that growth this year would be as low as 1 per cent., making the predictions of 2.7 and 2.9 per cent. seem decidedly unrealistic. An additional problem for British Rail is that the current state of the property market makes it highly unlikely that its property sales can generate the £800 million over the next three years that the corporate plan also assumes.

The downturn in the economy has already badly affected passenger revenue, and the Opposition calculate that the investment programme of which the Government say they are so proud may have to be cut by up to £500 million because of those difficulties. As the Secretary of State has refused to answer that specific charge, I hope that the Minister will be prepared to do so today.

The economic downturn highlights the essential problem facing British Rail. No one can challenge the assertion that there has been an increase in investment, but, because it has been paid for almost exclusively by passengers in higher fares--I remind the House of increases in real terms of up to 24 per cent. since 1979--and by a worse quality of service, it amounts to no more than the minimum that needs to be done to stop things getting any worse. Basically, it involves simply replacing the worn-out old rolling stock that should have been replaced years ago.

In 1992, on the north Kent line, on which overcrowding is at its worst, the old 10-carriage trains will begin to be replaced by new eight-carriage trains. It is to be hoped that the new trains will be more reliable and that the maintenance costs will be reduced, but the problems of overcrowding are likely to be as bad as ever. Because the new trains are to have sliding doors rather than slam doors, the load factor will increase from 110 per cent. to 135 per cent. In other words, passengers can look forward to standing on an overcrowded new train rather than overcrowded old train. Moreover, although they already pay the highest rail fares in Europe, they can look forward to paying real fare increases of 4 per cent. per year for the privilege.

That is why the Opposition fully support the motion, which calls for road and rail projects to be judged by a common criterion that takes full account of social, environmental and other external benefits. That is the only way to ensure that Britain not only joins the railway revolution that is sweeping through western Europe but that we get a truly balanced approach to transport policy. That approach has proved very successful in other countries. In France, for example, the TGV project would

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never have got beyond the drawing board if the French Government had not been prepared to take into account the wider social benefits that it would bring. Now it has proved a major economic success. Most recently, the TGV Atlantique has received a 30 per cent. public subsidy to provide environmental protection in the Paris approaches and help regional development in Brittany and the south-west. The contrast could not be greater. In France, trains will approach the Channel tunnel at speeds of up to 180 mph with passengers enjoying high standards of comfort- -including a creche.

On the British side it will be a very different story. Why?

Mr. John Prescott (Kingston upon Hull, East) : Where is it?

Ms. Ruddock : My hon. Friend asks, "Where is it?"

Mr. Portillo : Where is the creche?

Ms. Ruddock : As we have no tunnel, no rail link and no train, it is difficult to know where the creche will be.

I was about to explain why it will be a different story on our side of the Channel. As the Select Committee on Transport, pointed out, the Government have refused to adopt a strategic approach. They were warned 15 months ago that the private sector would not come up with the cash to build a new high -speed rail link to London without Government support. They ignored that warning. Now it looks as though the Government will have to do an embarrassing U-turn and find the £700 million if the Eurorail project is to avoid collapse. It is not good enough for the Government to provide public money to a private project simply as a way to avoid major political embarrassment. I remind the Minister that with public money goes public accountability. It is time for the Government to repeal section 42 of the Channel Tunnel Act 1987 so that we can take a strategic view and ensure that we get the best possible value, in economic, social and environmental terms, for the public money that is provided.

We must also remember that it is not just the link from the tunnel to London that should concern us. We need to develop a national network that provides fast and efficient links for passengers and freight throughout Britain. But while policy continues to be determined by the narrowminded attitude that led Sir Robert Reid to say,

"It's not our job to run a service that's desirable ; it's to run one that's profitable".

we can never hope to achieve that aim. That is why we seek the repeal of section 42, accompanied by a decision to give British Rail greater freedom to raise finance for major schemes. I am pleased to learn that the CBI supports our ideas about relaxing external financing limits and allowing British Rail to use its assets to raise loans in the market.

It is not just to ensure that Britain is not left on the periphery of Europe, isolated from the golden triangle, that we need to judge investment in broader terms. That is also the only way that we shall get the new high- quality public transport which is vital to prevent our towns and cities from grinding to a halt as a result of road congestion. In major cities throughout Europe, public transport is judged on its wider social benefits and subsidy is provided, not just to keep fares down but to support investment in

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new rolling stock, to provide new links and add to capacity--in short, to provide a modern efficient public transport system to meet the needs of the 21st century.

Again, in Britain, it is a very different story. By 1992, London will be the only major capital city in the world which expects its railways to operate without any Government financial support. As the hon. Member for Christchurch has reminded us, in the central London rail study the Government conducted their own cost benefit analysis of investment in new cross-London links. Unfortunately, they then ignored the analysis and went ahead with the extension of the Jubilee line--the line which the study has concluded would do least to relieve congestion in central London. At the time, we were told that the private sector contribution, which clearly influenced the Minister's judgment, would be £400 million. We now learn that Olympia and York's contribution will be worth 12 and 15 per cent. of the estimated cost of £1 billion at 1988 prices. If the costs go higher, as they often do, the proportionate share of the burden will fall even further. Will the Minister tell the House clearly today exactly how much the private sector contribution will be and when it will be paid? The adoption of a common social benefit cost analysis for road and rail as proposed by the hon. Member for Christchurch would transform transport provision in London and meet the demands that the hon. Member for Battersea (Mr. Bowis) has set out in his later motion dealing with public transport in London. I hope that the Minister will respond in some depth on the question of a common criterion. I have no doubt that if it were properly applied, the consequence for London would be a clear reduction of all the hated road building proposals--not just in Tory marginals--and the speedy acceptance of a major package of public transport proposals.

Ministers are fond of telling us how BR and London Regional Transport have all the investment that they can use for new lines. Why then did he not support the new Bill to extend the docklands light railway to Lewisham and Greenwich which they sought to lay before the House last autumn? The plans were complete, public consultation had been thorough and Lewisham borough council had pledged £5 million. The environmental impact was small and the economic benefits and social convenience were considerable. However, the scheme was turned down for want of a relatively small contribution from the Government. Perhaps the Minister will tell us today whether his right hon. Friend the Secretary of State intends to support a Bill to extend the docklands light railway this autumn and whether the funding will be conditional on a particular level of private-sector development contribution.

I want to consider investment in railway safety. When the Hidden report was published, the Secretary of State said :

"I can assure the House that finance will not stand in the way of the implementation of this report."--[ Official Report, 7 November 1989 ; Vol. 159, c. 837]

British Rail's corporate plan makes provision for £200 million of additional expenditure on safety improvements between now and 1993-94 with a further £50 million to be spent by 1994-95. I note, as did the hon. Member for Christchurch, that the cash ceiling on the final PSO grant settlement this year has been increased by £8 million to accommodate safety expenditure arising from the report

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on the Clapham Junction rail disaster. All the signs are that the full costs of implementing the Hidden report will be at least £500 million and could be significantly more.

The CTCC report to which I have referred shares our concern that passengers might pick up the entire bill for safety improvements through even higher fares or because investment funds are diverted away from other schemes designed to improve the quality of service. I join the hon. Member for Christchurch in hoping that the Minister will today give a clear commitment that a substantial amount of the additional investment will be funded by the Government. I also hope that the Minister will accept that it is now time to reconsider the level of staffing on our railways, Underground stations and trains. I have already referred to personal security being undermined by staff reductions. However, we must also consider operating safety. Anticipating slightly the debate on the next motion, I want to refer to the recent alarming series of accidents, incidents and near misses on the Underground. The new safety culture of London Underground Ltd. seems sadly deficient when a driver can drive his train the wrong way down the track and when a pushchair with a child in it is trapped in the doors of a train and dragged along the platform.

I hope that the Minister can tell us that he has ordered an inquiry into the latter incident which I drew to his attention in a parliamentary question. It is our contention that those accidents would most likely not have occurred if the trains had not been coverted to one-person operation.

For all those reasons--to improve passenger safety and comfort, to build high-speed links with Europe and to ensure that public transport can fulfil its potential to relieve congestion and improve the quality of the environment--we support the motion. Furthermore, I am delighted to assure the hon. Member for Christchurch that he need wait only until the next general election to see a Government in office who will implement proper criteria for investment and provide a new environment in which rail service development can flourish. 12.13 pm

The Minister for Public Transport (Mr. Michael Portillo) : I begin by congratulating my hon. Friend the Member for Christchurch (Mr. Adley) on his success in moving today's motion. I had no idea that he had to wait so long to do it, and I congratulate him all the more. For the avoidance of doubt, I should say that although he and I spoke about the terms of his motion, and he was kind enough to consult me, I was in no way the co-author of his speech. I deny any credit for that.

I hope that the House will be able to move on and discuss the next motion on the Order Paper which relates to transport in London. I intend to keep my remarks on London Underground for my response to the second motion.

Mr. Prescott : We may not reach the next motion.

Mr. Portillo : I hope that we do.

I was extremely surprised to hear the hon. Member for Swansea, East (Mr. Anderson) say that we were experiencing stagnation. I can do no better than to quote the hon. Member for Kingston upon Hull, East (Mr. Prescott), the chief Opposition transport spokesman, who said, in our last debate on these matters :

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