House of Commons Hansard Debates for 4 Apr 1990

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My hon. Friends are wrong not only about the reaction of people in the United Kingdom but about that of the Chinese Government. I ask both Conservative and Opposition Members who may be thinking seriously of voting against the Bill to reflect on the consequences outside if the Bill is rejected. In Hong Kong it will be seen as a betrayal and there will be a far greater and accelerated exodus of skilled and valuable people from Hong Kong in the immediate future. That will undermine stability to an extent that we have not yet even contemplated. There will be serious consequences not only for our future commercial interests in the far east but the intervening period of British administration of Hong Kong will be made extremely difficult, if not impossible.

Rejection of the Bill tonight will be seen in China as a sign of immense weakness. It will weaken our negotiating position with the People's Republic of China in a devastating way. It will feel that it has the measure of us. In the world at large rejection of the Bill will be seen as Britain failing to honour its clear obligations. 8.1 pm

Mr. Jim Sillars (Glasgow, Govan) : On the issue of Hong Kong, we face a problem because of past conduct, attitudes and judgments and neither the Tory nor Labour Front Benches have anything to be proud of. That was demonstrated in the debate this afternoon. If one reads the debates in the House from 1984 until just before Tiananmen square, what strikes an objective person--I can claim to be objective because I was not present--is the combination of naivety and stupidity on the part of both Front Benches. A self-satisfaction ran through all the debates about how well the negotiations with the People's Republic of China were handled and how everything in the garden of Hong Kong and China would be lovely. We are now paying the price for that lack of judgment.

There has also been a failure of nerve on the part of both Front Benches, on the moral issues. I was remarkably surprised to hear the former Prime Minister, the right hon. Member for Old Bexley and Sidcup (Mr. Heath), argue earlier that morality and international politics did not run hand in hand. I concede that a great deal of practice in human history might demonstrate that, but the essence of the argument for democracy is built on morality. It is morality that says that individually we grant other people, every man and woman, the right to be wrong, as we see it. That is a moral judgment that has been built up into democratic societies in western Europe and other places.

I listened carefully to the arguments about the need for more democracy in Hong Kong. I argued for that many a long year ago, before I came to the House in 1970 and during the 1970s. We have left it a bit late. Democracy is not just about one man, one vote, but about building up democratic institutions capable of taking the stresses and strains of political debates. It is the creation of political classes, if one likes to put it that way, which can deal with each other in a civilised way and contain all the passions within a society without allowing them to overspill into violence. I am afraid that we have left Hong Kong too few years to build up democratic institutions. The Government's proposals will not fulfil our responsibilities to create democracy there.

There is another point of shame for the Labour Front Bench, particularly the right hon. Member for Birmingham, Sparkbrook (Mr. Hattersley). I was utterly

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appalled to hear him engage in divide and rule tactics between immigrant communities. I never thought that I would hear that from him. He asked why people from the Indian subcontinent should find themselves in difficulty because people from Hong Kong had been allowed in. His premise was not sound. Dependants and others from the Indian subcontinent who are waiting to come to Britain and people in Hong Kong have one thing in common. They both have a relationship with this state because of the colonial past of the United Kingdom. I am sorry that the right hon. Gentleman did not recognise that. I wish to put on record in the time available to me the joint Scottish National party-Plaid Cymru position. The House of Commons has a responsibility for the status of the Hong Kong Chinese. The House has the power to exercise that responsibility. We know to what type of regime we are prepared to hand over those people. When I was in Hong Kong earlier this year--I have no interest to declare because I paid my own way--I read in one of the newspapers a statement by the person who is supposed to be the head of the Supreme Court in the People's Republic of China. He said that the word of the Communist party was above the law. If I were in Hong Kong without a passport and a means of escape, I should be extremely nervous.

For generations the House has brayed about morality. I remember the first time that I went to Hong Kong as a young service man, when there was a great outpouring of refugees from mainland China into Hong Kong. I read in the newspapers and was told in current affairs sessions held in our Army unit that we were there to defend democracy, freedom and the free world. Morality mattered very much in those days. There has been a great deal of preaching about morality but the present package offered by the Government and what the Labour party offers demonstrate that moral words have not been met by moral deeds.

Our position is exactly the same as that of the Liberal Democrats. We believe that all people in Hong Kong with a claim to British citizenship should be granted British passports and the right of abode. The SNP and Plaid Cymru also deplore the racist basis of the denial of passports to 3.25 million of the 3.28 million Hong Kong Chinese.

In other debates I have heard hon. Members argue that we cannot give millions of people a passport and an open-ended commitment to allow them to come to Britain at some time in the future. We have been told that it is impracticable. But what about the 1 million people in South Africa who have passports and the right to come here at some indeterminate point in the future, or the 8 million or 9 million people in north America and the old Commonwealth countries of Australia and New Zealand? They have the right to come here at any time in the future, yet no one seems to be terribly worried about that. Of course, they have white skins and that is what makes the difference. If Chinese people in Hong Kong were regarded, to use the racist term, as "our kith and kin" we should have a different Bill before us and different speeches would have been made from both the Front and Back Benches. I regard the Hong Kong Chinese as intellectual, political and human kith and kin as much as any white South African with a passport.

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The Bill is not the best one that could be brought before the House. It does not match the need for justice, as several other hon. Members have said. It has been cobbled together as an expedient to meet a crisis.

We shall support the Bill because it does two things in principle, although perhaps inadvertently. First, it is an open acknowledgement of our collective ability to meet our collective responsibility in the House of Commons. Secondly, it breaches the Government's previous argument that we cannot give passports to people in Hong Kong and expect them to stay there. That was the argument, yet it is precisely the opposite argument that the Government are putting now. No one knows what the position will be on mainland China between 1990 and 1997. If China again demonstrates a willingness to kill people and suppress democratic movements, we have in the Bill markers on which later we can state the case for everyone who is entitled to receive a passport and the right of abode.

Given the political difficulties of the Conservative Government, it is tempting to use the Bill further to upset the Government, but the SNP and Plaid Cymru will not lend ourselves to that. The Bill deals with human beings and they are far more important than tactics in the United Kingdom's internal politics. We should like to offer a rescue and insurance package to all the 3.28 million Hong Kong Chinese, but it is not in our power to do so. Tonight we have an opportunity to do that for 225,000 of them and we shall vote to do so.

8.11 pm

Sir Rhodes Boyson (Brent, North) : It is a pleasure to follow the hon. Member for Glasgow, Govan (Mr. Sillars). I do not agree with him. It is a question of the right to be wrong. Either he is or I am. It was also a pleasure to listen to my hon. Friend the Member for Lewisham, West (Mr. Maples).

I was in the East Indies fleet when Hong Kong was reoccupied in 1945, so my memories of the area go back a long way. I wish to deal with two sides of the issue : first, the effects on China and Hong Kong and, secondly, the effect on the United Kingdom if the Bill is enacted.

Hong Kong is part of China. In 1984, we signed a treaty for its return, as we had neither the naval, military nor economic strength, nor the wish, to retain it. Its future lies entirely with China. I agree entirely with my right hon. Friend the Member for Old Bexley and Sidcup (Mr. Heath) that our relationship with China is vital to its future. The 1984 treaty changed the whole position. The future of Hong Kong now depends solely on Peking. Whether it survives or dies depends on the relationships of Hong Kong and the United Kingdom with China. That important point must always be remembered.

I am a layman and we in the House are generalists. Indeed, our strength is that we are generalists and representatives of the people. I believe that we have irritated China on two issues. It is interesting that Taiwan is not offering to take people from Hong Kong. People in Taiwan to whom I have spoken believe that China's stand on passports and democracy in Hong Kong is right, and the Taiwanese better than the British Foreign Office should know the Peking Government's attitude.

We were in Hong Kong for a long time, yet we did little for democracy. It was ruled as a colony and the governor had the power. Suddenly we are in a hurry. It may not be

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a legal breach of the 1944 treaty, but if I were Chinese I would consider it an odd moral breach that we should expedite democracy when in a few years time Hong Kong is to return to China. I know that it is a question of one country, two systems, but whether it is capitalism against socialism or also democracy against some form of totalitarianism has never been properly worked out.

The Bill will enable us to give 50,000 passports to 250,000 people who will then come under a foreign power, Britain. Knowing the historical attitude of China to people from the west, that is the silliest step that we have ever taken. I do not put it more strongly than that. It has irritated the Chinese. They do not believe in dual nationality. As far as I know, the Foreign Office would not employ people of dual nationality. I may be wrong, but we have positive vetting in sensitive areas. Those people with British passports would probably be in charge of sensitive areas, so it is inevitable that they will be dismissed at the beginning in 1997 for being servants of a foreign power.

Dame Elaine Kellett-Bowman (Lancaster) : Hear, hear.

Sir Rhodes Boyson : It is nice to have the agreement of my hon. Friend. I feel more certain in my views now, having carried at least one hon. Friend with me.

The whole question of the 50,000 passports is suspect.

We must work with Peking ; otherwise, there will be no future for the people of Hong Kong--not just the 250,000 whom we have selected--the bureaucrats and those who have made money--but for anybody. What belief can the Chinese Government have in the pledges of a British Government who have reneged on their pledge to the people who elected them that there will be no more large-scale immigration? Only rarely do I agree with my right hon. Friend the Member for Old Bexley and Sidcup, but he rightly argued that we must look into the Chinese mind and see what we can do there. If one breaches a pledge to one's own people, how can anyone believe that one will keep a pledge to other people?

There was no consultation on the Bill, not even with the Conservative party. We on the Back Benches were landed with it. There was no democracy about it. There was about as much democracy as there is in Hong Kong. I do not say that unpleasantly, but I put it on the record to cheer everybody up. We wonder what will happen next. Hon. Members have referred to the immigrant community in the United Kingdom. Obviously, the Bill affects them. At some time, people will say that we have enough immigrants. We may agree that there should be 100,000 or whatever, but at some stage there must be a bar. Everybody, and certainly the right hon. Member for Birmingham, Sparkbrook (Mr. Hattersley), has dodged the question of numbers.

Mr. Budgen rose

Sir Rhodes Boyson : I must not give way. I have only five minutes and today I shall finish in time. Last time, I was cut off even before my peroration. Not that I need one, but I intend to make one this evening.

I have probably more constituents from immigrant stock than any other Conservative Member. I am continually trying to get in relatives of people who live here and who should be here. My priority is to look after my people first. They are here. One case of a couple will show

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how bad it is. The grandfather of the wife was a brigadier in the imperial British Army. Her father was a group captain in the Indian air force and provided great defence contracts to this country. The father of the husband was an inspector in the imperial police when we ruled India and won 40 commendations for gallantry. His only child is here.

The couple have two children, one of whom needs constant attention, for which they pay. They want the wife's parents to come to this country. They can live on their pension. It will cost the United Kingdom nothing. They will not breed at that age, unless there is a great miracle. Nobody can have any objections. For 18 months, I have been trying to help those people to immigrate, but I still cannot get them in. There is no way that I can defend the Bill when I have to deal with such matters in my constituency. That has to do with the Bill, and those of us involved in such cases know that it does. My Chinese community do not want the Bill. They tell me that they came here because they wanted to, not because they were running away.

Dame Elaine Kellett-Bowman : Yes. It was a positive decision.

Sir Rhodes Boyson : Again, I am grateful to my hon. Friend for her agreement. I am undoubtedly carrying the House with me this evening. What happened elsewhere at the end of the British empire? We often handed peoples over to one-party dictatorships. Did we provide passports then? Some funny things have happened in some of those countries. Did we help? Thank goodness we helped the Ugandan Asians, and in Kenya, but in some of the others, no help was given. The provision of passports has been highly selective.

At the beginning, I would take in all those who have served in Her Majesty's forces and their widows. I would start from there. I would say no more than that at present. I am sorry to say this with the Foreign Secretary present--we served together in Northern Ireland--but it is a matter of personal integrity and I must say that Foreign Office policy on China has been wrong and has irritated China. It should be changed to working with China, as my right hon. Friend the Member for Old Bexley and Sidcup said. He will not thank me for continually quoting him. He may think that he is in bad company, but I will do so again. He said that we must get on with the Chinese. We must get it right.

If the Bill is enacted, it will further damage our relationship with China. My sympathies lie with China on this matter. It will do nothing for my people who want their families united now. I do not want to hear promises of other people coming here and worrying about where they will end up. Sad as it may be, I shall have to vote against the Bill's Second Reading.

8.19 pm

Mr. Bernie Grant (Tottenham) : Tonight, we have witnessed a number of attempts at sophisticated racism, especially in the speeches of Conservative Members. It is a measure of Opposition Members' hostility to the Bill that those Conservatives have been forced to try to hide their racism in sophistry. One such attempt was made by the right hon. Member for Chingford (Mr. Tebbit), who talked about the Hong Kong Chinese queue- jumping. It is disgraceful that someone who was directly responsible for

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keeping black and minority ethnic people from joining their families in this country should now cry crocodile tears about those people having to wait while the Hong Kong Chinese queue-jump. My right hon. Friend the Member for Birmingham, Sparkbrook (Mr. Hattersley) also referred to this matter.

Hong Kong Chinese are already in the queue to get into this country because they have been caught up by the racist immigration legislation now in force. It is absolutely wrong to argue that black and ethnic minority people whose relatives or friends are waiting in queues in Karachi, Jamaica or wherever object to Hong Kong Chinese coming here. The people to whom I have spoken understand the circumstances now facing the Hong Kong Chinese.

It is important to understand how this Bill has come about. Partly it is a result of the Commonwealth Immigrants Act 1962, followed by the British Nationality Act 1981 which changed the status of Hong Kong citizens, who then became citizens of the British dependent territories. The citizens of a number of other colonies, for example Gibraltar, the Falklands and Montserrat, also had their status changed. Since that time the British Government have given full citizenship rights of entry and abode to the people of Gibraltar and the Falklands, but those rights have been denied to the citizens of Hong Kong purely on the basis of colour, although the Government will try to argue the numbers game.

The best thing I can do is to quote from the Joint Council for the Welfare of Immigrants whose 1985 report states :

"The barrier to acceptance of a residual moral responsibility for people who have lived under British rule, and whose future has been negotiated over their heads is the same barrier which has for twenty years obstructed justice and morality in British nationality and immigration law : the fear of non-white immigration to Britain. It is not merely a question of numbers, but of colour. Millions of other people from overseas have an absolute right to enter Britain: between three and nine million Commonwealth citizens, from Australia, Canada and New Zealand ; over 200 million nationals of EC countries ; about a million white South Africans. Almost all the people concerned are white ; their right to enter Britain is unquestioned and does not lead to any public fears of being swamped' by immigrants." The Bill demonstrates what it is all about.

I contrast the behaviour of the British Government with the way in which Portugal has acknowledged its responsibilities to its territory of Macau, which is also due to be handed back to China in 1999. The people of that territory have been granted full Portuguese citizenship rights, including the right to live and work in Britain after 1992. Unlike Britain, Portugal has recognised its responsibilities towards its colony.

The right hon. Member for Old Bexley and Sidcup (Mr. Heath) tried to make out that Britain has no moral responsibility for the citizens of Hong Kong. I was a citizen of a previous British colony and I can tell the House what a colony is all about--possibly I am unique in the House in that respect. If one lives in a British colony, one must learn English and follow British traditions. Britain tries to mollycoddle such colonies and tries to engender a parent-child relationship with them. Because of that, and because it has exploited it economically, Britain has a clear moral responsibility to Hong Kong. The right hon. Member for Old Bexley and Sidcup said that Britain has given a lot of money to Hong Kong, but I assure the House that it has taken a lot more out.

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As a colonising power, Britain took on the responsibility for protecting the citizens of Hong Kong. It has a responsibility for their internal and external security and that is why there is a governor of Hong Kong. It is an absolute disgrace that Britain can just relinquish such responsibilities on a whim. The British attitude appears to be, "We do not mind what happens to the rest ; we shall take just a few."

Britain is further culpable because of its failure to honour its commitment to ensure at least a measure of democracy in Hong Kong before 1997. In Macau, the people can vote in the Portuguese presidential elections and for two seats in the Portuguese assembly. Britain has no such arrangements.

A number of my colleagues and I have discussed the draft Basic Law and people have expressed their concern about human rights. We were teasing such things out until 4 June and the tragic events in Tiananmen square. Those events caused panic among the people of Hong Kong and they turned to Britain, the mother country--the protector of those people--for support. What they got from the Government was this Bill saying that, with a bit of luck, a quarter of a million people can come here if they pass the test.

It is important to consider the test that the Government have set. The points system is a disgrace. If one is aged between 30 and 50 and one passes the other criteria, one is allowed to come to Britain. However, if one is under 30 or over 50 one does not receive the 50 points necessary. Therefore, people over 50 will automatically leave Hong Kong by other ways. I do not understand how the Government can say that the Bill is intended to keep people in Hong Kong. Fifty points are awarded under the proposed points system if one is proficient in English. If the Bill is designed to keep people in Hong Kong, surely one should get points for proficiency in Chinese. Hong Kong needs to establish the ability to govern itself. The position in Hong Kong demands that the Bill of Rights which the former Foreign Secretary promised to the people of that territory be enacted soon. Secondly, there should be rapid progress towards democratic Government, directly elected by the people of Hong Kong. Thirdly, all British passport holders in Hong Kong should have restored to them full rights of citizenship, including the right of entry and abode in the United Kingdom. The British Government should accept their responsibility for all the people who are legally and lawfully resident in Hong Kong.

I intend to abstain from voting on the Bill. I agree with my Front-Bench spokesmen that the Bill is elitist and that the method of selection is bad. I must, however, support the principle of allowing people to come to this country. I am not prepared to go into the same Lobby, however, as the right hon. Member for Chingford on this or any other issue to do with race. For those reasons I shall abstain in the main vote and support my hon. Friends' motion that the Bill should be discussed in a Committee of the whole House.

8.30 pm

Dr. Charles Goodson-Wickes (Wimbledon) : I speak on this subject with some trepidation, because I know of the expertise of many of my right hon. and hon. Friends. From the tone of today's debate, it would seem that there

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is general acceptance of our duty to do all in our power to ensure the stability of Hong Kong during its last years as a British colony and the lead-up to its time as a special administrative region of China in 1997. When I say "in our power", the House will recognise that this is limited, not least because China has essentially held all the cards in the lead-up to the Sino-British joint declaration of 1984 and thereafter. However, our influence is still considerable and the measures before us today reflect that.

When the Government announced the quota system for British passports for Hong Kong citizens, I was extremely sceptical of its merits. Well intentioned though it may have seemed, I thought that it was arbitrary, apparently flew in the face of our manifesto commitments on immigration and was potentially invidious in its application. It was with those preconceptions that I went to see the position for myself, in an unsponsored visit to Hong Kong during the Christmas recess. The object of my visit was not only to see the territory but, more importantly, to see the problem within the context of China as a whole.

I learnt a salutary lesson, because the Chinese authorities left me stranded for four days in north-west China. Perhaps that is the best possible reason to make a sponsored visit rather than an unsponsored one. However, it gave me a chance to see more of the real China. My visit took place during the imposition of martial law following the horrors of Tiananmen square. Perhaps at no other time has the contrast between the vibrant prosperity of Hong Kong and the depressing mood and relative poverty of China been so marked. For the first time, I recognised the justification for the sense of vulnerability and real fear of the Hong Kong Chinese, many of whose families had fled communism in the civil war. On the other hand, the People's Republic of China has been relatively pragmatic in its treatment of Hong Kong during the years. It has refused to recognise the cession of Hong Kong island and Kowloon or the lease of the New Territories, but it has tolerated an historical legacy. By doing so, it has benefited enormously from Hong Kong's economic links with the outside world. It is not only in its own interests but in those of Hong Kong and British business for the territory to remain stable. While we cannot predict the outcome of the unresolved power struggle in Peking, the lesson of recent history is that even hard liners from Mao Tsi-Tung onwards recognised that Hong Kong's special status was to everyone's mutual benefit, and that any

interference--which was possible at any time--would be

counter-productive. Even if we take the bleakest view of China's future-- that if, in the absence of any history of democracy or any sizeable ethnic minorities that could break away, China were to remain the last bastion of communism in the world--there is little, if any, incentive for China totally to disrupt Hong Kong's unique way of life. However, while that possibility exists, it is for us to take what steps we can to stabilise the position, pending the reforms that we hope to see in Peking. I heartily endorse the comments from hon. Members on the importance of establishing and maintaining a civilised exchange of views with Peking.

The Chinese have consistently argued that all Hong Kong inhabitants of Chinese race are their compatriots, and thus any granting of British passports could in itself be interpreted as provocative. Any force-fed process of

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democracy in that territory is even more provocative. Therefore, we are talking about compromise and how many passports must be issued to anchor the key people in Hong Kong. The general feeling seems to be that we have got the number about right. China's greatest incentive to respect Hong Kong's position is that Hong Kong continues to be its gateway to trade in the outside world.

I went to Hong Kong and China as an agnostic. Many Conservative Members will continue to doubt the wisdom of my right hon. and learned Friend's policies, but having made the offer, the consequence of withdrawing it now would be catastrophic. There would be a crash of confidence in Hong Kong, and all our responsibilities towards the territory's inhabitants would be thrown out of the window. The combination of my right hon. and learned Friend's policies and the long-term interests of China in the region combine to give the best chance of solving this delicate issue in an honourable way. We have heard a great deal today of the Opposition's so- called policies, but they constitute unprincipled, empty opportunism. The Government's proposals should be supported on practical, political and moral grounds.

8.37 pm

Mr. Robert N. Wareing (Liverpool, West Derby) : Had it not been for the events of 4 June in Tiananmen square, this debate would not be taking place. Therefore, it is necessary to measure the Bill against the necessities that arise from the events in Tiananmen square. The Bill is totally inadequate because if we consider whose human rights are most at risk as a result of Tiananmen square, it is not necessarily the business men, the people with skills and those who are being selected as a result of the Bill who have most to fear from the Chinese after 1997.

What astounds me particularly about the Tory party is its willingness to appease Stalinism in China as it was never willing to appease Stalinism in the Soviet Union during the Stalinist period and afterwards. The right hon. Member for Old Bexley and Sidcup (Mr. Heath) made a remarkable speech on that point. He made an apologetic speech for the Chinese regime.

There will come a time, I hope in the not-too-distant future, when changes will take place in China as they are now taking place in eastern Europe. I do not want to be pointed at as one who refused to support the democrats when they had their backs to the wall in Tiananmen square and for the way in which they are now being dealt with by a Government who are willing to give way to the Chinese. The Bill appeases the Chinese Stalinists in Peking. It in no way seeks to protect the people who will be most at risk such as the students who led the way in demonstrating in Hong Kong their opposition to the Peking regime. Many of those who demonstrated in Hong Kong had fled from Stalinism in the years before 1989. Those who have most to fear are the students who, when I was at the terminus to the Star ferry last August, were collecting petitions full of signatures of people to support their counterparts in Peking. We must measure the Bill in terms of human rights and it totally fails to deal with that problem.

The Labour party has put forward a belated argument for democracy. As my hon. Friend the Member for Bradford, West (Mr. Madden) rightly said, it has been neglected during the decades by successive Governments of both parties.

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However, it must be said that Hong Kong is a unique colony in that its population never sought independence, unlike, say, India or Cyprus. People did not form independence parties in Hong Kong when they became politically active. On the contrary, those who were politically active there took the side either of the Chinese Communist party or of the Kuomintang.

Now we need to look at the rights of the people of Hong Kong. My right hon. Friends the Members for Manchester, Gorton (Mr. Kaufman) and for Birmingham, Sparkbrook (Mr. Hattersley) have made it perfectly clear on a number of occasions where the Labour party stands in respect of the democratic rights of the people of Hong Kong. Long before 1997--indeed, by next year--they should be moving towards full democracy and a Legislative Council that is wholly elected by the people of Hong Kong. That is one way in which we can exert pressure on the Chinese Government.

It is not, however, the only way. When Conservative Members argue that the Labour party proposes no alternative, they are wrong : there is another way. My right hon. Friend the Member for Gorton has spelt out other groups of people who should be considered for the right of abode in Britain. My hon. Friend the Member for Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley (Mr. Foulkes) made it clear on Radio 4 this morning that a Labour Government would act with the international community. Britain has its connections with the European Community and the Commonwealth--

Dame Elaine Kellett-Bowman : Woolly.

Mr. Wareing : It is not woolly. Most of the people who leave Hong Kong for western countries do not go to Britain, so there must be some accord with Canada, Australia and Singapore. Between 1981 and 1986 no fewer than 197,887 Hong Kong people went to western countries, of whom only 9,257 came to the United Kingdom--just 4.79 per cent. Quite apart from their natural dislike of Thatcherite Britain, we do not exactly have the cultural atmosphere to attract many people from Hong Kong.

It is ludicrous to say that handing out passports more liberally to the people whom it is the responsibility of the British Government to protect would result in an invasion of 6 million people. To bring pressure to bear on the Peking regime we need an international conference to discuss the problem of the colony.

It is a peculiar argument, advanced by the Government, that we must prevent people with skills from leaving Hong Kong since Hong Kong's economy demands that skills remain there--we do not want a run on the Hong Kong dollar, or people fleeing from the colony. So it is strange that the only 50,000 people to be offered the right of abode in the United Kingdom will be precisely those with the skills. Hong Kong does not have an abundance of skills. The plastic mould and dye industry of Hong Kong is desperate for more skilled workers ; it is an industry that is basic to everything else-- toys, electronics and so on--and it is suffering.

There is much opposition in Hong Kong to the attitude of the Singapore Government, who have offered access to Singapore to 25,000 Hong Kong people over the next five years, because the sort of people whom they are taking are not the sort who will suffer because of their political views

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--dissent from Peking over Tiananmen square, for instance--but the sort who have skills and who can help the Singapore economy. Not only is this legislation appeasement of the Stalinists in Peking, but it is hasty legislation that should have been brought before the House only after full discussion with our international partners. Even under a Tory Government the Canadians have been far more generous and imaginative than this Government have ever been under this Prime Minister.

Despite the fact that I dislike the attitude of some of the Conservative Members whom I shall be joining in the Lobby tonight, I have no compunction in saying that this is a thoroughly bad Bill that I cannot support.

8.45 pm

Mr. David Howell (Guildford) : I do not know whether being called at this late hour means that I am supposed to start winding up the debate from the Back Benches, but one theme that has clearly emerged from the debate, most of which I have sat through, is the widespread revulsion at the bizarre and opportunistic manoeuvring of Labour Front-Bench spokesmen. Those of us who have tried to seek an all-party approach to the difficult problem of how to keep people in Hong Kong and prevent the collapse of the territory have been baffled by the stance of the official Opposition. How can they seriously argue that elitism applies to midwives, physiotherapists, or police or fire officials? To do so is to get the whole issue out of perspective. The position of the Labour Front-Bench spokesmen was devastatingly destroyed by the right hon. Member for Bethnal Green and Stepney (Mr. Shore), who made a fine and honest speech. There is no glory in the position adopted by Labour Front-Bench spokesmen and it is sad to think that these are people who might one day seek to form a Government of this country.

Some of my right hon. and hon. Friends are worried about the impact of the legislation. Of course if our immigration laws and our defences against further mass immigration were to be weakened by legislation, that would be a matter of grave concern and those who expressed such concern would deserve the fullest sympathies of the Government and of those of us who support the Bill. I should not support it if I felt that it opened the way to more mass immigration into this crowded country.

My right hon. Friend the Member for Chingford (Mr. Tebbit) and some of his supporters have been kind enough to send a letter to Conservative Members. It was nice to get a letter from my right hon. Friend ; I do not get many from him. In his polite letter he set out his fears and those of his colleagues, which fall into two categories. There are immediate worries, and there are longer-term worries--in both cases, that the Bill will not work.

The immediate fears of my right hon. and hon. Friends, reiterated by the right hon. Member for Birmingham, Sparkbrook (Mr. Hattersley), are that a group of people now somehow stuck in Hong Kong will be released by getting their hands on British passports and coming here. That is a travesty of the truth. In fact, thousands of people--key workers--are leaving Hong Kong in droves day after day, week after week. They are heading as fast as they can for Australia, Canada, the United States and even South Africa, with a consequent haemorrhage of talent. It is not a question of our provisions releasing those people

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and allowing them to escape--to use the misleading verbiage of the right hon. Member for Sparkbrook ; it is a case of enabling them to stay, because key workers of Hong Kong are moving out in enormous numbers and those numbers will increase.

Almost everyone who can find a way through to an overseas passport is doing so--not only the living. I read that some of the dead are also being moved out of Hong Kong by their relatives : people's ashes are leaving the colony. When a licence has not been procured for the removal of the remnants of those who have died, they are taken aboard the nearest Boeing in carry-on luggage and transported overseas. The idea that people have been kept in the colony and that our provisions will release them is an inversion of the reality. The reality is that our provisions are the one thing that will ensure that those people stop going so fast. That is the thing that we must concentrate on and that is what we must watch to see whether the legislation achieves it. My understanding and my belief is that it will have a considerable effect in slowing down the present exodus of talent.

There is also an argument that in the short term we cannot do anything because China is in a bloody-minded mood, that that is what undermines confidence, and that merely passing the legislation will not increase confidence.

I agree that in the longer term China is the key to confidence, prosperity and stability in Hong Kong. But there are things that we can do in the shorter term and are seeking to do. We have made a move on the Vietnamese boat people and, as a result, we have the welcome news that the number of Vietnamese boat people is falling dramatically. We have made some moves on democracy. I happen to agree more with some Opposition Members than I do with my Government on that. The Select Committee had strong views about pushing the democracy issue as fast as possible. Every effort should be made to make the Chinese understand that a fast development of democracy is right. By 1995 we should certainly open up the issue again. Finally, we are seeking, through this measure, to keep in Hong Kong some of the key workers who otherwise are leaving at a great rate. That is what we are doing in the short term. The issue of them escaping and how many we allow into Britain, or what numbers will crowd into this or that part of the United Kingdom in the short term, simply does not arise. It is hard to find anyone in Hong Kong among those who now wish to emigrate who wants to come here anyway. I do not believe that they will. Anyway, that is not the purpose of the legislation. This is not an immigration issue in that sense, and viewing it through that lens has led the Opposition into their miserable and ill- supported stance on the matter.

As for the long term, those of my hon. Friends who are doubtful say that after 1997, or even before, everyone who has one of the passports will come to Britain because the Chinese will take a hostile attitude to foreign passport holders and see them off. I must tell those who have doubts that if by 1997 or before there is still hostility and extreme surliness about Hong Kong in Peking, regarding it as a centre of subversion, it will be not 225,000 people coming, but 3,225,000, or indeed even 5 million people, all of whom will regard the United Kingdom as a place of asylum.

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Under the United Nations refugee convention of 1951 we are pledged to provide asylum to genuine political refugees. That is the nightmare that lies behind the undermining of confidence now. That is why we must work night and day to reassure Hong Kong now in the convalescent years of the early 1990s, to see that somehow we avoid that horrific prospect.

I do not agree with those who say that the Chinese do not really understand these things. They understand them very well indeed. They understand that there is a case for people having a passport as a form of reassurance. A senior Chinese Minister told the Select Committee when we visited Peking before Tiananmen square that he understood quite clearly, because in China there was a saying that a clever rabbit has two boltholes. The Chinese had no difficulty in understanding exactly what is intended. I know that since then they have taken a rather more hostile tone, but they understand the position exactly.

I should have liked to see a right of entry or right of abode being given, not passports. But that perfectly sensible idea was yet one more thing dished by the manoeuvrings of the right hon. Member for Manchester, Gorton (Mr. Kaufman) and his colleagues who said that they would reverse anything of that kind that was put forward. That is why the Government had to go for passports.

We shall need much greater and more vigorous international efforts than we have seen so far to get others to combine in the reassurance process over the next few years. The operation will need to be monitored by the House. I am not offering or volunteering, but the Select Committee might have a part to play in seeing how policy develops in Hong Kong over the next few years.

I must tell Opposition Members and my right hon. and hon. Friends who see the issue in the narrow terms of apparent great influxes of immigrants that that is not the prospect. The question is whether we can get Hong Kong through the immediate difficult years that lie ahead. The Bill will not solve everything by any means. But it is a litmus test of whether we are a nation that understands the wider world or whether we have turned in on ourselves in a pititful mood of short-termism and parochialism. I know where I stand on that issue. 8.55 pm

Mr. Ron Leighton (Newham, North-East) : The House will not turn its back on the residents of Hong Kong or relax its continuing concern and commitments to their welfare. The question is how that is best achieved. It was always known that Hong Kong would not obtain independence like other colonies. We cannot escape, or wish away, the facts of the geography or history of Hong Kong. One of the central realities is that the lease runs out in 1997. The position in international law is clear.

We cannot tow the colony away, nor is it remotely realistic, as some have suggested, to imagine that we can transport the population of some 6 million halfway round the globe and put them in Surrey, Sussex, Somerset or our inner cities. A moment's reflection shows how unbalanced and inappropriate such a proposition is from every point of view.

The essential truth is that the future of Hong Kong cannot possibly be separated from that of China. It is the

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relationship with China that is all- important, and it is that which we have to get right and on which we should concentrate.

In December 1984, Britain negotiated the joint declaration with the People's Republic. It was a first-class agreement. It allowed basically for one country but two systems. Hong Kong is to be allowed to keep its social system and economy and considerable autonomy for at least 50 years. Remembering that the alternative to the agreement with China is no agreement, merely the expiry of the lease and the reversion of sovereignty, it was a satisfactory and beneficial agreement.

The joint declaration is a solemn international agreement registered at the United Nations. The Chinese and British Governments have entered into commitments and obligations under the joint declaration, and the Chinese have recently reaffirmed them. The terms of that agreement should be strictly adhered to by both sides. We should do nothing to damage, threaten or jeopardise the agreement. Its implementation is by far the best prospect for the future. But then came Tiananmen square, the bloodshed and the brutal suppression of the demonstration a year ago. There was, rightly, worldwide revulsion and condemnation, especially in Hong Kong. Everyone was appalled. But are we to say that what happened in Tiananmen square is somehow China's last word for all time? Are we to say that that will be an inevitable regular occurrence ; that in all perpetuity the Chinese army will regularly attack its own people ; and that in 1997 the Chinese army will march into Hong Kong and massacre everyone? Should we expect that to be the most likely prospect, so that the agreement is now worthless?

In considering that, the events in eastern Europe should encourage us. We all remember the tanks on the streets of East Berlin, Budapest and Prague. Yet we have now seen genuinely free multi-party elections and the blossoming of freedom and democracy. Why assume, almost as an act of wish fulfilment, a worst-case scenario? Why forecast Armageddon in China?

We know that even last year there were different views in China, even at the highest level, on what to do about the demonstration in the square. It would be mistaken to believe that there are no sane voices. One thing is certain : the geriatrics who ordered the bloodshed will not be around much longer. There have been many upheavals and much turmoil in China over the past 40 years which have baffled outsiders--the great leap forward, the cultural revolution and the changes in leadership. However, I think I am right in saying that throughout that period China has kept to its international agreements. No hon. Member knows what the position will be in seven years' time. Why should we assume that it will be worse rather than better?

The Basic Law, for the mini-constitution passed on 4 April in Peking, set out the rights for Hong Kong citizens after 1997. It said that, after China resumes sovereignty over Hong Kong, it will nevertheless enjoy

"a high degree of autonomy"

as a "special administrative region" of China. It said that Hong Kong's capitalist system and "way of life" will remain unchanged for 50 years. It will have independent finances and its own tax system, keep its currency-- the Hong Kong dollar--and remain a free port outside the Chinese customs area. While overall responsibility for defence and foreign affairs will rest with Peking, Hong

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