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Juvenile Offenders
12. Mr. Knapman : To ask the Secretary of State for the Home Department when he intends to bring forward his proposals giving courts stronger power to hold parents liable for the criminal activities of young offenders.
Mr. Waddington : We shall bring forward legislation to give effect to the proposals in the White Paper, "Crime, Justice and Protecting the Public", including those on parental responsibility, at the first suitable opportunity.
Mr. Knapman : Does my right hon. and learned Friend accept that one third of all crime is perpetrated by the under-17s and that some parents do not seem to know where their children are either by day or at night? Could the regulations therefore be introduced at the earliest possible date, bearing in mind the experience in the United States of America where similar regulations have caused parents to consider their children's actions more carefully?
Mr. Waddington : I agree with my hon. Friend about the importance of that. It should be possible--I believe that it is--to bring home to parents their responsibility when a child goes wrong, without making the parents guilty of a criminal offence. We can do that by strengthening the powers to require parents to pay the fines imposed on their children, allowing magistrates to assess the fines according the parents' means as well as the child's means, requiring a parent to attend court when a child is brought to court and binding parents over to exercise proper control over their children. I should have thought that all right-minded people would understand the common sense of those proposals.
Concessionary Television Licences
13. Mr. Vaz : To ask the Secretary of State for the Home Department if he will make a further statement on concessionary licences for retirement pensioners.
Mr. Mellor : Under the 1988 regulations, the concessionary television licence is available to retirement pensioners and disabled people who live in registered residential or nursing homes or in equivalent sheltered accommodation provided by a local authority or a housing association. Some 875,000 people currently benefit from the concession. As the hon. Gentleman knows, we have no plans to make any further changes to the scheme.
Mr. Vaz : Does the Minister realise that the 44,000 pensioners who live in the city of Leicester and millions of others throughout the country, have had to suffer a dramatic decline in their living standards because of the Government's policies in the past 10 years? Does he accept that millions of them simply cannot afford to pay the cost of a television licence as well as all the other charges that they have to pay, including the poll tax? Will he speak to his right hon. Friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer, who is sitting on the Front Bench next to him, to see whether resources can be made available to implement a scheme for all pensioners? The Opposition believe that British pensioners have made a valuable contribution to society and deserve special treatment.
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Mr. Mellor : The only problem with what the hon. Gentleman has said is that most of it is inaccurate. It is not true that pensioners' living standards have been falling in recent years--in fact, they have been growing. It is not true that every pensioner is in need. We know that many pensioners are well off--better off than those who would have to pay an extra amount in television licence fee if all pensioners were to receive the concession. The cost of the concession to other licence payers would be sufficient to take the television licence fee to more than £100. Despite the occasional weasel protestation from the Opposition Front Bench, they have never committed themselves to make that change, although I hope that one of them may stand up and clarify the point later.
Mr. McCrindle : Will the Minister look into what I think may be an anomaly in the regulations, whereby even if all the residents of a retirement home are of pensionable age they are not allowed the concessionary television licence if the articles of the home permit persons to be admitted to the home from age 55 even if none under retirement age are actually present?
Mr. Mellor : I think that everyone who has had to deal with this scheme has a passing regret that the scheme was ever devised, because it is of its very nature that lines must be drawn, thus creating anomalies and there are always some people just the other side of the line. We tried to tidy up the arrangements in 1988, but any tidying up still leaves hard cases. I regret what my hon. Friend has said and if that is the case I shall look at it, but it is of the nature of a scheme which was no doubt invented in a hurry and has caused a lot of trouble in the past 20 or 30 years.
PRIME MINISTER
Engagements
Q1. Mr. Carrington : To ask the Prime Minister if she will list her official engagements for Thursday 3 May.
The Prime Minister (Mrs. Margaret Thatcher) : This morning I presided at a meeting of the Cabinet and had meetings with ministerial colleagues and others. In addition to my duties in the House, I shall be having further meetings later today.
Mr. Carrington : Is my right hon. Friend aware that the voters of Hammersmith and Fulham are very grateful to the Government for having cut their community charge by £99? Does she also know that my constituents are outraged that the Labour-controlled council is spending community charge payers' money taking the Government to court to try to put the charge back up again? Will she join me in assuring the voters of Hammersmith and Fulham that if they vote for a Conservative-controlled council today the capping will stay and every community charge payer will be £99 better off tomorrow?
The Prime Minister : I am grateful to my hon. Friend. Hammersmith and Fulham has for years been a very high-spending council. In 1987-88 it put the rates up by 127 per cent., and it has increased its budget significantly in recent years, so that this year it has set a charge of £424. The council has been capped because its budget was excessive-- nearly £300 per adult over the standard spending assessment. The proposed cap gives a £99 reduction in the charge and, as my hon. Friend says, the
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voters have every cause to be grateful to the Conservative Government. Labour-controlled councils cost you more and Conservative-controlled councils cost you less--and give a better service.Mr. Kinnock rose--[Interruption.]
Mr. Kinnock : Thank you, Mr. Speaker, for reminding Members on the Conservative Benches that they are still in Parliament.
Hon. Members : Where are the Opposition?
Mr. Speaker : Order. Such interruptions take up a lot of time.
Mr. Kinnock : Several of my hon. Friends are out ensuring even bigger gains for the Labour party in today's elections.
When the Prime Minister first decided to impose the poll tax, did she realise that all across the country, regardless of which political party has control of councils, three times as many people would lose through the poll tax system as would gain from it?
The Prime Minister : If that is so, the enemy is not the community charge but high-spending Labour-controlled councils.
Mr. Kinnock : By now the Prime Minister knows very well that that is absolutely not true. Why does she not heed the words of her fellow Conservatives in places like Redbridge, where the large Conservative majority on the council passed a resolution calling upon the Government
"to desist from misleading the public and to accept its own overriding share of responsibility for the level of community charge"?
Why does the Prime Minister not accept the inescapable truth of that statement from her Conservative colleagues and, just for once, come clean?
The Prime Minister : Because it is local councils which set the community charge--I trust that the right hon. Gentleman does not argue with that--and, as he knows, the top 50 overspenders are all Labour-controlled councils. [Interruption.] The top 50 overspenders are Labour- controlled or councils with no overall control. The difference is well exemplified by my authority which, after safety net, has a community charge of £268 but which is top in the education stakes. The Labour- controlled authority where the right hon. Gentleman lives has a community charge after the safety net of £408 and is 74th in educational performance.
Mr. Kinnock : Does not the Prime Minister realise that councillors of all parties, including her own, deeply resent the way in which she is trying to blame them for that which is her fault? Why will she not stand up and accept her own guilt?
The Prime Minister : Labour councillors are expected to take responsibility for the community charges which they set. If they cannot take responsibility, they should not be there. The fact is that under Labour people pay more for poorer services and for spending on things that they do not want. Conservative-controlled councils cost less and provide a better service.
Q2. Mr. Patrick Thompson : To ask the Prime Minister if she will list her official engagements for Thursday 3 May.
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The Prime Minister : I refer my hon. Friend to the reply that I gave some moments ago.Mr. Thompson : Can my right hon. Friend assure the House that every kind of diplomatic pressure is being brought to bear to secure the release of the hostages in the middle east? Does she agree that it would be wholly wrong to enter into direct negotiations with terrorists or those who are their sponsors?
The Prime Minister : Yes, I agree with my hon. Friend. Obviously we very much want to get our hostages out and every day we are trying to do something to that end. May I point out that our embassy staff have remained in Beirut throughout a very dangerous and difficult period? One of their main purposes in being there is to try to find out any information that they can about any hostages.
Yes, we are using diplomatic contacts and pressure, but there are certain obstacles--for example, the fact that Iran broke off diplomatic relations with Britain over the Rushdie affair. We maintain a dialogue with Iran through our protecting power, which is Sweden, and through other contacts, and we shall continue to do that. We are also in touch with the Americans and, like them, we welcome the role that Iran and Syria played in securing the freedom of the two American hostages. I agree with my hon. Friend that it would be wrong to make deals with those who take hostages and we shall not do that.
Mr. Allen : This is a statement. It is an abuse.
Mr. Speaker : Order. It is a matter which is of grave concern to the whole House.
The Prime Minister : It is wrong to make deals with those who take hostages. We shall not do that, and nor does the United States. The Archbishop of Canterbury has this morning reaffirmed his view that the Government's policy is sound and that one should never reward hostage- taking because to do so would encourage more of it.
Q3. Mr. Wilson : To ask the Prime Minister if she will list her official engagements for Thursday 3 May.
The Prime Minister : I refer the hon. Gentleman to the reply that I gave some moments ago.
Mr. Wilson : Will the Prime Minister comment on the collusion which has been exposed today between the Tory-appointed chairman of Lothian health board and the Scottish health Minister, the hon. Member for Stirling (Mr. Forsyth), for the purpose of suppressing until after today--and I quote :
"to avoid political embarrassment to the chairman of the Scottish Conservative party"
--the proposals of that hand-picked Tory health board to close four hospitals and to cut nursing and paramedical services in order to meet a deficit? In how many other corners of Britain are similar plans being suppressed until today is out of the road? Does the Prime Minister realise that the people of Scotland will never accept the dual role of the hon. Member for Stirling as Scottish health Minister and as chairman of the Conservative party in Scotland in manipulating the Health Service for shameless political ends?
The Prime Minister : I know of no such collusion whatsoever. I point out to the hon. Gentleman that my hon. Friend the Parliamentary Under- Secretary of State
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for Scotland has done wonders for the Health Service in Scotland. There are more hospitals, more nurses, more doctors who are better paid and more patients being treated than ever before. It would be kind if people could pay a tribute to the Under- Secretary who has had a good deal to do with that.Q4. Mr. Rathbone : To ask the Prime Minister if she will list her official engagements for Thursday 3 May.
The Prime Minister : I refer my hon. Friend to the reply that I gave some moments ago.
Mr. Rathbone : Will my right hon. Friend, following her statement last Tuesday, give greater reassurance to the House that the Government will introduce positive and persuasive ideas for co-operative evolution in the European Community? Will she apply her undoubted leadership qualities to breed cohesion among Community leaders to ensure that the Community develops in a way that benefits everyone in Europe?
The Prime Minister : Yes. In the next few weeks we shall present ideas to make the institutions of the Community work better, on the basis of sovereign states working through national Parliaments and through the Council of Ministers in the Community in a way that benefits everyone. We shall also be introducing some different ideas for economic and monetary union--bearing in mind the approach of the House, which is not to move in anything like the Delors direction, as that would rob us of our powers. We think that our ideas would go further to ensure the co-operation of the Community states to benefit everyone.
Mr. Ashdown : Has the Prime Minister read the reports in today's newspapers about the Dudley man who was sent a bill for £1.91 poll tax for the last two days of his wife's life? Does she not see that that adds shame to the verdict of inefficiency and injustice that is being passed on the poll tax at the ballot box today? How powerful must the vote of protest against the poll tax be before the right hon. Lady will listen?
The Prime Minister : I am grateful to the right hon. Gentleman for referring to that action by Dudley Labour council, which was not under an obligation to collect that sum from the deceased person's estate. [Interruption.] The relevant regulations provide only that sums owing may be recovered in the administration of the person's estate and from his executor or administrator. The Department of the Environment has been advising authorities that if a person dies shortly after 1 April they should consider writing off any outstanding amount. Furthermore, there is no doubt that in this case the cost of billing Mrs. Wood's estate exceeded the amount of the charge.
Q5. Mr. David Shaw : To ask the Prime Minister if she will list her official engagements for Thursday 3 May.
The Prime Minister : I refer my hon. Friend to the reply that I gave some moments ago.
Mr. Shaw : Will my right hon. Friend tell the House whether she has any information about local authorities which provide good services at reasonable cost, as opposed to those which provide poor services at extortionate cost?
The Prime Minister : I gladly comply. My hon. Friend will know the answer. It is Conservative councils which
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give good value for money, cost less and give excellent services. It is Labour councils which cost people more, offer poorer services and often spend money on things that people do not want. The object lesson is clear--elect Conservative councils.Q6. Mr. Eadie : To ask the Prime Minister if she will list her official engagements for Thursday 3 May.
The Prime Minister : I refer the hon. Gentleman to the reply that I gave some moments ago.
Mr. Eadie : Will the Prime Minister sack the hon. Member for Stirling (Mr. Forsyth)--the Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Scotland--because he instructed Lothian health board to withhold its programme of hospital closures until after today's regional elections? Does she agree that that is typical of the hon. Member for Stirling and that the Scottish people have had enough of him because of his sustained attacks on their welfare?
The Prime Minister : No, I will pay tribute to the work of my hon. Friend the Under-Secretary of State with responsibility for the Health Service in Scotland for the excellent way in which the service is run, to the great benefit of most of the people in Scotland--who, I am sure, are much more satisfied with it than the hon. Gentleman is. I noted that the hon. Gentleman did not ask me a question about the community charge, possibly because the level of community charge set by Lothian is the highest of any authority in Scotland.
Mr. Eadie : On a point of order, Mr. Speaker--
Mr. Speaker : I will take it in a minute.
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Q.7 Mr. Gale : To ask the Prime Minister if she will list her official engagements for Thursday 3 May.
The Prime Minister : I refer my hon. Friend to the reply that I gave some moments ago.
Mr. Eadie : On a point of order, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker : What is the point of order?
Mr. Eadie : Should not the same strictures apply to the Prime Minister as apply to other Members of the House when they deal with matters not contained in the question?
Mr. Speaker : I cannot be held responsible for what is said in answer to questions.
Mr. Gale : There is probably no one in the House who cares more than my right hon. Friend about the plight of the hostages in the middle east, but in the light of her earlier answer will she reaffirm that the only result of giving in to terrorists is, in the long run, the taking of more hostages, and that the only way forward must be through quiet diplomacy?
The Prime Minister : Yes, I agree with my hon. Friend. If we ever give in to blackmail it results in the taking of more hostages, which is why neither we nor the Americans will make deals of that kind. We both try and will continue to try, through our contacts, through the protecting power, and through other contacts that we have, to do everything possible to bring about the release of the hostages, about whom we are very concerned. We note that America has done no deals--it is through quiet contacts that her hostages have been released.
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