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Channel Tunnel Rail Link
9.34 am
Mr. Gerald Bowden (Dulwich) : I beg to move,
That this House urges British Rail to give full and thorough consideration to proposals for a Channel Tunnel Rail Link based on a junction at Stratford, and to enter into professional discussions with those proposing the Stratford alternative before presenting their Private Bill to Parliament for a decision.
I take this opportunity to congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Kettering (Mr. Freeman) on his appointment as Minister for Public Transport. I am pleased to see him in the Chamber in what I think is his first parliamentary role in his new office. He enjoys a high reputation in the House for his calm courtesy on all occasions, his ability to listen and his capacity to take action. I know that those three qualities will stand him in good stead in dealing with the issues that are before us.
I shall explain how the motion came up for debate today. Some months ago I proposed, together with leading Members from all political parties in the House and all regions of the United Kingdom, an early-day motion urging British Rail to consider the alternatives before presenting to Parliament its proposals for a channel tunnel rail link. That all-party early-day motion attracted more than 100 signatures and, as is the custom when an early-day motion gains such widespread support in the House, I raised the matter at business questions with my right hon. and learned Friend the Leader of the House and asked him when time might be provided to debate that motion. He gave his customary answer of never. He wrapped it up a little more gently than that and said that the matter would be debated when British Rail came forward with its own proposals. Good fortune favours a good cause and a few days later I entered my name in the ballot for private Members' motions. Good fortune shone and I was drawn first in that ballot. I was given by fate the opportunity that the Leader of the House was not able to provide to have a debate on the motion.
It is a matter of minuscule parliamentary precedent that this is the first early-day motion which, in its original form on the Order Paper, is being subjected to a full-scale debate. The Table Office tells me that its records for living memory do not show another such instance. Perhaps that is a precedent which might be reflected in other precedents that I shall seek to bring before the House later in my speech. I read on the front page of The Times this morning that the Cabinet will make a decision on this matter next week. I have no way of knowing whether that is true, but it means that this is an opportune moment to air the issues and ventilate the concerns. Perhaps I should explain how I first became involved in this matter and how my attention was drawn to the
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channel tunnel rail link problem. It will come as no surprise to hon. Members to learn that it was first a constituency concern. It was felt that there was the threat to my constituency that the British Rail proposals would do a great deal of damage. I make no apology for my concern having been attracted by the parochial principle. However, having looked at the detail of British Rail's proposals, and having seen the effect that they would have not only on my constituency but on south-east England and on the other regions of the United Kingdom, I began to realise the inadequacy of those proposals.Let us go back to basics. What is the purpose of a channel tunnel link? It should be to offer all parts of the United Kingdom--all the major cities, all the industrial conurbations and all the regions--the opportunity for a fast and direct link to continental mainland Europe. Furthermore, that link should not have a bottleneck or a buffer stop in London but should shift freight or convey passengers from any part of the United Kingdom to any part of continental Europe and link up with the continental rail system. British Rail's proposals singularly fail to do any of those things.
In looking at any route that should fulfil the objective of being part of a strategic European rail network, one has to apply three criteria-- operational, financial and environmental. First, any such route must be operationally effective. Secondly, by statutory provision it has to be financially self-supporting. Thirdly, and more important, it must be environmentally acceptable. It must cause the minimum environmental damage for the vast majority of people. The King's Cross rail route, the channel tunnel rail route and the King's Cross rail terminal must be measured against these criteria. Let us first see whether the channel tunnel plan is operationally effective. We are slightly in the dark because British Rail's proposals are not firmly on the table, but we have seen its first and second compromises and we have an idea of what it is proposing, so we can work on certain assumptions. For passengers, it proposes to run a line that will go through rural Kent from Ashford. It will touch on south-east London, going over bridges, viaducts and embankments above communities, close to schools and into King's Cross or Waterloo stations. This route is called a high-speed or fast-rail link. However, the optimum speed or more than 120 mph cannot be achieved if it is to take that route. The experience of rail disasters and tragedies that we have regrettably seen over the past few years shows that it would not be possible to run passenger trains on such a route. British Rail has said--I think that I am right, but no doubt I shall be corrected if I am not--that the time saved by this construction will be between a quarter of an hour and half an hour. I ask the House, as I would ask all who are affected by this and all who wish to see such a route constructed, whether the environmental damage is not too high a price to pay for such a minimal operational benefit.
The only destination will be London. Passengers who want to go to Edinburgh, Liverpool, the west, Bristol, the south-west or south Wales will arrive at King's Cross station and will have to make their own arrangements, by other transport means, to cross London to, for example, Paddington or Heathrow.
We are uncertain about exactly what the interchange arrangements for trains going north will be, but in most cases people will have to change trains to go beyond
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London. Those who feel, psychologically, temperamentally or nostalgically drawn to King's Cross as the gateway to the north will find that British Rail's proposals for a terminal at King's Cross do not meet the needs of a direct route through or around London for passengers who do not wish to stop at London.Mr. Nigel Spearing (Newham, South) : Will the hon. Gentleman give way?
Mr. Bowden : I shall give way in a moment, but I wish to develop my argument a little further.
British Rail's plans make the assumption that all passengers will be going to London. As I find this slightly strange, I wrote to the Secretary of State expressing my misgivings on 25 August 1989. I received a reply from the then Minister of State on 14 December, in which he said that 70 per cent. of passengers travelling on the route would have London as their destination. I wonder where that figure comes from. If that is the figure on which British Rail and the Department of Transport are working, there is a clear need to examine more closely the assumptions and presumptions on which the route is being built.
One further operational point is worth raising now, although it can be developed later. It is that the track gauge used on the route will not harmonise with the gauge used on mainland Europe. Therefore, far from having a train that goes straight through from Brussels, Paris or Milan, passengers will have to change on to a British gauge train when they arrive here. The idea of a through train for passengers' convenience is lost. I wonder what benefit such a journey will offer over and above the existing travel arrangements by ferry boat and train or by plane.
The provision for freight in British Rail's plans is basically nil. It proposes to run freight over existing lines, and there is to be no dedicated freight route. I find it extraordinary that it should not have looked on this as an opportunity. We convey far less of our freight by rail than any other nation in Europe. We complain about the congestion on our roads and we see great refrigerated vehicles trundling down from the north or Scotland and crossing on the ferries to deliver their merchandise to the capitals of Europe. It is absurd that there should be no provision for putting fish in refrigerated goods trains in Aberdeen and conveying it to the capitals of Europe in less than eight hours. British Rail has not even thought about this and has made no provision for dealing with freight either in London or through London and beyond.
I have raised the matter with British Rail on several occasions and the answer given to me by a board member was that British Rail freight is not "time sensitive". What a wonderful phrase that is. It means that British Rail has no intention of making provision for fast-travelling freight or of competing with road transport to get freight that has to be delivered on time. That stands as an indictment of British Rail's development of its commercial aspects.
Mr. Mark Wolfson (Sevenoaks) : I fully support my hon. Friend's point about British Rail's apparent lack of any positive interest in achieving a proper slice of the freight market. It has given details of how little money there is in moving freight in Britain, but that is not a good enough excuse if we are to solve the environmental problem of pressure on the roads.
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Mr. Bowden : I am grateful to my hon. Friend for endorsing that point, with which many hon. Members agree.
Mr. Nigel Spearing : We all agree about British Rail's apparent lack of interest in freight. Is the hon. Gentleman aware that I have had conversations with British Rail officials? It is clear that their wish to concentrate as much traffic in London as they can get away with is related to the need for maximum return on capital invested in the route. Use of stock and lines predicates what they are suggesting, which is not to the convenience of the passengers. Is not that a result of Government financial policy, first, in requiring minimum capital and, secondly, maximum return on stock and route?
Mr. Bowden : I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman. He is one step ahead of me. He anticipated what I shall say in a moment. If I do not answer his point directly, I shall do so in due course. We are in agreement.
If freight and the so-called high-speed rail links are run over existing commuter lines, what consequences will it have for commuters who use those lines and who are suffering and complaining about the inadequacy of service? Operationally, many questions need to be asked. Many defects are immediately apparent, and BR has singularly failed to explain many aspects. Before a decision is made, there should be a searching inquiry into the operational benefits and defects of BR's proposals.
Sir Philip Goodhart (Beckenham) : Before my hon. Friend leaves the question of freight, is not it extraordinary that British Rail has not fully explored the possibility of developing the links between Tonbridge, Redhill and Reading and the midlands and the north?
Mr. Bowden : I find extraordinary not only that but the fact that BR has not explored any of the other alternatives in detail or depth.
Someone said to me the other day, "From the way that you are speaking, it seems you have a vision of a rail network. Is that really a Tory characteristic?" I said, "Yes, I have a vision of a rail network in Britain linking with the transport network in Europe". I find regrettable the lack of vision of BR's board--indeed, its tunnel vision. The only vision that members of the BR board have is that which they see from their boardroom window during their coffee break, when they look out of the Euston road boardroom and see the King's Cross development. I wonder how many members of the board have been on the alternative routes, have even considered the alternative proposals or have visited Stratford. It calls into question the role of the BR board, which is appointed to serve the public interest, and it shows that BR probably relied on so-called experts within its organisation to feed it what it thinks it should be fed.
Mr. Andrew Rowe (Mid-Kent) : Does my hon. Friend recall that his point was almost fantastically reinforced by the admission that BR made about its original proposals to drive a route through a brand-new housing estate in my constituency? It admitted that nobody had been down the chosen route. What on earth would possibly induce it to consider any alternative?
Mr. Bowden : It is a pity that BR did not travel by train along the proposed route because it would have found that there are some defects in it.
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I turn to the second criterion--finance. Section 42 of the Channel Tunnel Act 1987 makes it clear that the route should be self-financing. The route chosen by BR goes through mid-Kent and some of not only the most beautiful but the most expensive land in the country. It is also some of the most difficult terrain on which to engineer and construct. That causes additional expense. The route goes through housing estates which BR had not realised were there. How could it cost the compensation claims without knowing where the line of the route went? That leaves one with grave misgivings about its professionalism in costing the route.Undeterred, British Rail sought the public sector partner that it had been encouraged to seek for finance. Although I was not party to the discussions, it was clear that the public sector partners with which it flirted were unable to see how the route into King's Cross could possibly be self-financing. One way or another, all partners failed, except Trafalgar House. For the convenience of hon. Members I shall not refer to the corporate names that consortiums have used because we are all confused about Eurorail and Kentrail. Eurorail was formed with Trafalgar House, which agreed with BR to construct the route and that it would be self- financing. It was not surprising to the other groups that had made a bid that, having opened the books, Trafalgar House found that there was no way in which the BR-preferred route could be self-supporting or self-financing and that it would be necessary to seek public money.
I shall deal briefly with the environmental criteria and how BR's preferred route measures up to them. The route drives through some of the most beautiful landscape in the south-east of England and some of the most beautiful farm land, which we see as our heritage as well as protective of rural life and fostering rural communities. It drives through small communities, small villages and densely populated south-east London urban areas. It does so not underground but, in many places, above ground, with all the environmental damage and danger that that implies. It will cause not only long-term nuisance and environmental damage, but during the construction period it will cause considerable short-term nuisance.
I know that only too well in my constituency. Warwick gardens--I see my constituency neighbour, the hon. Member for Peckham (Ms. Harman) in her place--is temperamentally Peckham but technically Dulwich. I speak for Warwick gardens, which people believe is in the Peckham area. Some years ago, it was run down, but it has regenerated itself by the commitment of those who live there and those who have moved in. The human tragedy of the threat of blight caused by these insensitive proposals shows that there is something gravely wrong with planning a route without consulting in advance the communities that it deeply affects.
I know that many other hon. Members are aware of similar anguish being expressed by communities affected by the threat of blight. Those who participated last year in the marches through London and saw the banners from all parts of the community and all parts of the south-east realised that there was a great force of opposition to such a wasteful threat to the environment.
As I have said, there is no real benefit to the commuter, to the continental passenger or to the freight shipper in the King's Cross terminal and route proposals. Who does benefit from the route? I am indebted to my hon. Friends the Members for Christchurch (Mr. Adley) and for
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Harrow, East (Mr. Dykes) for prompting consideration of that point. I discovered that an amendment to my early-day motion 692 used the phrase "developer-led". I was amazed by the use of that phrase and decided to delve a little more into what that might mean. A letter was sent to hon. Members who had signed the early-day motion, with the exception of the six leading signatories, by Mr. J. Palmer, the managing director of European Rail Link, which is a part venture with Trafalgar House and BICC. He used that same phrase in attempting to disparage the alternatives. He said :"Alternative proposals for direct links from Stratford to the city, King's Cross, Heathrow and the Midlands, North and Scotland, appear to have been grafted on to developer led plans."
It appears that that piece of jargon is used not only in our Order Paper but in the wider world. That prompted me to trawl through the evidence given to the Committee considering the King's Cross Bill, which began its work last June but which has not yet reported. The report of its proceedings is interesting to read, not so much because of the questions that were answered, as because of those that were not even asked. On Tuesday 12 December Mr. Godfrey Bradman, one of the developers, was asked in some detail about the terms on which British Rail would develop the King's Cross site and how Trafalgar House was linked with that development. The Chairman said : "Those are assurances that we have been given by BR in this Committee ; we want to know whether they are convincing to you." Mr. Bradman replied :
"I think what you need to have if I may say so is Mr. John Fletcher of Eurorail to whom I spoke as recently as yesterday ; he has said that he would be very happy to come and give evidence".
My hon. Friend the Member for Chelmsford (Mr. Burns), a member of the Committee, took up that point. It draws to the attention of the House the unsatisfactory way in which fact and truth emerge from such questioning. He said :
"No, every time we come up against a brick wall it is suggested we call somebody else for evidence."
That shows that we should more closely investigate the terms under which King's Cross is to be developed and the implications for the channel tunnel rail link--or, the other way around, the implications of the channel tunnel rail link going into King's Cross and the proposed development of that site.
I believe that such tactics are called the salami strategy. It is tactically useful for British Rail to produce a Bill that covers only the tunnel aspect. It makes no mention of what happens after the tunnel or any further along the line, British Rail having obtained the tunnel, the next slice of the salami is the terminal, which is to be at King's Cross--yet still no mention is made of how one gets between one and the other. When those who might be on the route between one and the other attempt to make representations, the narrow interpretation of the locus standi rule, imposed by the Court of Referees, denies hon. Members whose constituencies will be affected the opportunity to give evidence, to petition or even to ask questions of that Committee. For that reason it would be useful today to pose the questions that the Committee should have asked the developers.
What is the relationship between the developers of the King's Cross site and British Rail and its venture partner Trafalgar House? Is Trafalgar House a developer connected with the King's Cross development as well as
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being part of the joint venture arrangement? What is the value of the development at King's Cross? The rental value per square foot in the location of King's Cross may be £x. If, however it is developed as a terminal for the channel tunnel rail link, tenants and their clients could simply go downstairs, get on the train and be in Paris or Brussels in two and a half hours. The rental value would then be not £x but £3x, £4x or £5x per square foot. The value of the King's Cross development depends very much upon the likelihood of its becoming the channel tunnel rail link terminal. I wonder whether there is a sine qua non in the arrangements, whereby if there is no rail link the development might not even take place, or if it did, not on the same terms.Mr. Graham Allen (Nottingham, North) : I congratulate the hon. Gentleman on drawing first place in the ballot. As he knows, I came second. I have already told him that had I been first, I would have given him half the time available. Whether he will reciprocate is another matter.
The hon. Gentleman referred to salami tactics. There is a problem for potential supporters of the Stratford interchange. If the line runs from the channel tunnel to Stratford, is there a danger that the next slice of salami from Stratford to King's Cross might not be constructed? The hon. Gentleman appears to be considerably downgrading the King's Cross terminal. The stretch from Stratford to King's Cross would be very expensive. I represent constituents in the east midlands whose line is not electrified, so they are already at a disadvantage. We are worried that the line might go only to Stratford, and not on to King's Cross. If that happens, it would not then continue to the east midlands and most of the traffic would go up the east coast. A number of people who are potential supporters of the hon. Gentleman's arguments wish him to clarify that point.
Mr. Bowden : I do not know how long the debate will take, but obviously it needs to run long enough to allow all who wish to speak to do so. I hope that I have as much generosity of spirit as the hon. Gentleman and, if it were within my power, I would give half of my time to him as he said he would give to me. However, that is the world of hypothesis.
We must question the relationship of the developers not only with British Rail but with the Government. They want to develop a line and a terminal. They have international tenants waiting who would love to have an international office block with fast links to continental Europe. However, they have found public opposition on a scale which I, for one, have never previously encountered. People who are inexperienced in protest have turned out on Sundays and marched through the south-east in lines of tens of thousands to tell the Government that the plans are unacceptable. That public opposition is no mean feature.
There is also the question of delay. Every time that occurs in the making of a decision, then, to use a developer's phrase, the window of opportunity is closed in respect of making a letting to the right tenant. There is also the cost factor. It is clear that the link cannot be constructed in the way that British Rail proposes without money from other public funds. I suggest that you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, put yourself in the developers' shoes.
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What should they do? Perhaps I should not put you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, to that inconvenience. Instead, I shall put myself in their shoes.Perhaps I should declare a past interest. Twenty years ago, I was involved in the property development industry and know it to be an honourable profession, and one which makes a great contribution to the nation's well- being. Having served an apprenticeship in that profession, I subsequently taught young people who were destined to enter it, and was able to pass on some of my own experience. I place myself in the shoes of developers facing the problem of public opposition, delay and cost, and wonder how I would tackle them. I shall paint a scenario. First, I would circulate rumours among the press and other media to the effect that, "The Minister must give the go-ahead at once." Secondly, I would spread the rumours that, "The Minister must fund the project with some public money." Having let those two rumours mature for a little time, I would beat a path to the Minister's door and deliver my ultimatum, saying, "Pay up now, or we pull out--and then where will your Government be?" Having allowed him to digest that, I would try the soft touch, saying, "I know that you must avoid section 42 of the Channel Tunnel act 1987. I know that financing is statute-barred and that you cannot be seen to devote public money to the project. But let us dress it up in some way. Let us call it an environmental grant. Let us say the money is being used to minimise the impact of the rail link on the environment. If you don't like that, let us call it a commuter services upgrading allowance. Let us say that the money will be used to improve Network SouthEast to the benefit of all, so that it will not be seen as a subsidy for the channel tunnel link. Wrap it up in pink paper, tie a ribbon around it, and the public will feel that they are giving a present to a good cause."
That is how one might try to sell such a proposal to any Minister. One would put the wind up him and then show him the way out. But decisions made in those circumstances would be bad decisions, reached without considering the defects of the proposals or the benefits of the alternatives. No amount of public money can make a bad scheme good. In those circumstances, it would be a financial insult to devote public money to an existing environmental injury.
Mr. David Shaw (Dover) : Has my hon. Friend taken into account that the channel tunnel project itself has grotesquely overrun its original financial projections? It is extremely unlikely that shareholders will ever see a return on their initial investment, and they may be required to put up another £1 billion or £2 billion later this year. As a consequence, when considering the rail link, one inevitably asks why the Government should become involved in putting up taxpayers' money for what will be a high-risk project.
Mr. Bowden : And an inefficient high-risk project, at that. I turn to the proposed procedure and timing. Right hon. and hon. Members are more than familiar with the timing requirements of private Bills. They must be deposited by 27 November, and then lie on the Table until the end of January, to allow objections to be raised and petitions to be presented.
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Mr. John Prescott (Kingston upon Hull, East) : The hon. Gentleman raises an important point, but I am not sure that his facts are right. I raised that aspect with the appropriate authorities of the House, and established that there are a number of precedents for depositing important Bills after November, particularly with a Bill that is likely to span two parliamentary Sessions. That allows proper consideration to be given to alternatives.Mr. Bowden : I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for his remarks. No doubt those who take decisions about when the Bill is deposited and how it is to be dealt with will take them into account. However, they do not detract from the point I was about to make.
When the Channel Tunnel Bill came before the House, there were 5, 000 petitions against it, which took a considerable time to screen and hear. If there were 5,000 petitions against the tunnel itself, how many more petitions will there be against a Bill to provide a rail link with it through Kent and south-east London into King's Cross? One could probably multiply those 5,000 petitions by five. The likelihood of there being 25,000 petitions against such a proposal is no more than a conservative estimate. It would take us from, say, January 1991 until June of that year to hear all those petitions and to have them screened by the Court of Referees.
The Bill might receive its Second Reading in June 1991 and then go into Committee. The King's Cross terminal Bill went into Committee last June, and technically it is still in Committee one year on. The proposed new Bill might emerge from Committee in 1992 and be reported to the House--but June 1992 is also the buffer stop for a general election. If we believe that we can solve the problem, we must solve it in a way that allows us to persuade the electorate that we have the right answer. It would not just be an election issue in the south-east--it would be the election issue.
The alternative might be a hybrid Bill. Wearing my property developer's hat, I might say to the Minister, "Come on. Join in on this one. Make it a hybrid Bill. Get your commitment behind it. Make your payroll vote support it, and we will get it through." That might work in certain circumstances, but I am told by more experienced people with wiser heads than mine that success in politics is often, if not always, a matter of timing.
The timing of a hybrid Bill would present exactly the same problems as those that I described in relation to a private Bill. It might have a certain amount of Government commitment and would technically be a Government Bill. However, that would not lessen the number of objections and petitions, which I believe would still number around 25,000--so its Committee stage would not be shortened. Even a hybrid Bill would still be a major issue in the next general election. There is an alternative strategy and alternative routes that command support from the majority of people involved either in the route alignment or at the destinations. The alternatives should be examined, because there is no way that British Rail's Bill can be put through before the next general election, or even in time to straddle that election.
Why not consider the alternatives, which might command support, might not generate public opposition, might meet the self-financing cost requirement and might obviate some of the delay?
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Mr. Simon Hughes (Southwark and Bermondsey) : Before the hon. Gentleman turns to specific alternatives, does he agree that the timing of the debate is all-important? If British Rail made an announcement within the next few weeks without taking into account what he and all hon. Members anticipate will be universal disapproval for the likely proposals, and if it ignores voices from all parts of the country asking for a total rethink, which will benefit all the regions--Scotland, Wales, London and the south- east--it will cause British Rail, the Government and any other supporters of BR immense difficulty.
I know the hon. Gentleman well enough to think that he is trying to get a solution that will be acceptable throughout the House and the country. Before any specific alternatives are canvassed I hope that the key point in his remarks will be taken up--that British Rail must not ignore the strongest possible pleas for it to stop going down a second wrong route and must listen to the unanimous call for it to consider all the alternatives suggested in the House today.
Mr. Bowden : I think that the hon. Member is saying that timing is all-important, as I suggested a moment ago, and that there is no point in foisting the wrong route upon the country because BR needs to make a decision now. That would only generate further delay because of opposition along the route. If the right route is found, one which fulfils the three criteria, it will obviate the need for delay and will have widespread acceptance. Therefore it could go through the parliamentary procedures with far fewer obstacles and with a fair wind from both sides of the House behind it.
Four main alternatives have been suggested in detail. They are known by the acronyms TALIS and RACHEL. Those two routes are the work of groups which are not professionally sponsored but comprise professionals with experience of civil engineering and railroad building. Indeed, I believe that some had experience of building railways in other parts of the world and could therefore claim to have more professional expertise than many people in British Rail. In addition to those two route alignments, two other sponsors made proposals--Ove Arup, a prominent civil engineering consortium and Manufacturers Hanover Trust, which has experience of bringing together groups for this type of development. There are two professional consortia and two professional proposals. It is not the point of my speech to single out which proposal is better. That needs to be done at a more professional level within British Rail and the Department of Transport. However all the proposals have one thing in common--they recognise the concept of a Euro- rail link and the need for a strategic integrated transport plan for the United Kingdom and the rest of Europe, and they all recognise the need to avoid every piece of freight and passenger going through central London whatever its destination in the United Kingdom.
All the proposals start with a route alignment through north-east Kent rather than mid-Kent and through south-east Essex rather than into King's Cross and one knows not where from there. Benefits flow from that route. The consortia should capitalise on any agreement among themselves. Taking the route through north-east Kent is the idea that they all seem to have in common. Thereby, they will take the route through one of the most deprived
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parts of the south-east where there is a fair amount of derelict industrial land and the local communities could benefit from an economic uplift. Any such route, with its freight and passenger transport potential, would introduce new jobs and give a boost to the industrial economy. We should consider the issue not only from the benefit to be gained from operation of the route, but from the intrinsic value it will have for the community through which it passes.Something someone said a moment ago reminded me of an early meeting I attended with the protest group in which I take an interest, Pearl, which is concerned mainly with the Warwick gardens area. We went to a meeting at British Rail headquarters and met a group of middle managers--not the top brass. Someone said that the TALIS and RACHEL routes ought to be considered. British Rail said that it had considered one--TALIS, I think-- and was now considering the other. We asked who was looking at it. Was it an independent consultant? BR said, "Yes, Transmark is looking at it."
I found out that Transmark is a subsidiary of British Rail and its affairs are mentioned in the BR balance sheet. Surprise, surprise--in the first instance Transmark came up with a report on TALIS, I think, saying that that proposal was rubbish. We then discussed the RACHEL route and asked what would happen if Transmark, British Rail's subsidiary, found in favour of RACHEL or found good points in that proposal. The phrase, "fell about" describes the way that British Rail's middle management reacted. They laughed and slapped their sides at the idea that Transmark would find in favour of an alternative. Someone pressed the point and asked the question again. I remember the substance of what was said--although the person with whom I checked takes a different view. I think that one of them said, "We would lose our jobs," and another said, "We should all resign." Whichever way one looks at it, they were saying that their employment with British Rail would somehow terminate. I cite that as an example of the fact that one cannot rely on British Rail having an independent assessment of the alternatives unless it is forced to do so.
A biblical quotation describes the situation but it escapes me. I do not remember the exact words, but I suspect that part of Transmark's job was to point out the speck of dust in the eye of the other proposal, to distract attention from the lump of concrete in its own. I think that that is the modern translation rather than the original authorised version, but the sense is there.
Are the alternatives operationally effective? Let us consider the proposals on an operational basis. They would allow freight and passengers to be conveyed at speed to and beyond London along routes which are easy to engineer. They would provide a direct bypass to the city for passengers and freight not destined to remain in London. Although there is no point or purpose in trying to suggest costings today, it is obvious, even to those not experienced in property values, that acquiring industrial derelict land in north-east Kent will be cheaper, in terms of the amount of compensation that will have to be paid, than acquiring highly expensive farming and residential land in mid-Kent and south-east London.
If Stratford were a passenger terminal, people would be able to park and ride--to go by car to Stratford, as they
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might to an airport. They would not be able to do that at King's Cross. What is even more important, Stratford is not regarded as a terminal. Manufacturers Hanover Trust and Ove Arup, the promoters of the two main schemes, have said that repeatedly. In all their communications with hon. Members and at all their meetings they have made it clear that they do not believe that Stratford should be a terminal but that it should be a bypass junction for those who wish to go beyond London.An essential feature is that there should be a connection between Stratford and the west country. Passenger and freight trains destined for the west country would go from the channel tunnel port to Stratford, turn left by means of a constructed tunnel or existing route, to the City--perhaps via Fenchurch street to King's Cross, touching the King's Cross development-- and then carry on to Paddington, Heathrow, Bristol and the west. An essential feature of the strategy is that the route from Stratford to the west would take in mid-town London, west London and the City. It is that essential feature, put forward in the alternatives, which British Rail has consistently denied is there. By means of misinformation and disinformation it has insisted that that is the greatest inadequacy and deficiency of the alternative proposals.
There would also be a not too difficult method of taking passengers and freight to the north-east and the north-west. Stratford could be linked with the routes to the north, either by a route north of King's Cross or by going through King's Cross. That would make Stratford a junction point in a national network ; it would not be just a terminal. That is the most important aspect of the alternative proposals.
A passenger and freight alignment along the lines that I have suggested could be designed to the continental gauge. The United Kingdom route would then harmonise with the European gauge and there would be no need to change trains when passengers and freight arrived in this country. That is the main benefit of the alternatives. Routes along those alignments and the development of Stratford would generate their own financial support.
Mr. Richard Holt (Langbaurgh) : For the benefit of my constituents in the north-east, can my hon. Friend confirm that his plan would not be to the detriment of my constituency and that it would not slow down the opportunities for development in the north-east, bearing in mind in particular the Government's mule-headed attitude towards a proper motorway to the north-east of England?
Mr. Bowden : I am grateful to my hon. Friend for allowing me to elaborate on that point. British Rail's preferred route with a terminal at King's Cross, would be of little benefit to those in the north-east, certainly to industrialists who want to shift freight. They would have to find a way to get it to London and then to a terminal, be it at Willesden or Stratford, so that their freight could reach the fast link network. If, however, a freight line went through Stratford, freight could be sent to the rest of the country on the continental gauge. It would be a progressive development. The Stratford option offers more to those in the north and west of England than British Rail's proposals. British Rail has sold its proposals as being the only way in which the north-east, the north-west, Scotland and the south-west can be accommodated. The reverse is the case.
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Mr. Tony Lloyd (Stretford) : The hon. Gentleman referred to the progressive development of his preferred option. Hon. Members with constituencies in the north believe that the planning by both the Department of Transport and the Government has failed to take account of the need to integrate transport systems as quickly as possible with the channel tunnel link. We need access to the tunnel at the greatest possible speed so that the north of England and Scotland can take advantage of all the benefits. We must not be marginalised, simply because we cannot gain access to the tunnel.
Mr. Bowden : I am grateful for the opportunity to try to dispel any misapprehension that there may be in the north about my proposal. Many of us came to the issue because of the need to protect our constituencies from the threat, but the more that we looked at the proposals the more we realised their inadequacy and how little, if anything, they offered to regions other than London and the south-east. The movement of freight and passengers to the north, the north-east and the north-west, bypassing London, could be based on Stratford without the delays, bottlenecks and the interchange of trains that would be necessary at King's Cross. It would allow for the development of lines northwards on a gauge that harmonised with the rest of Europe. Passengers and freight from the north would be able to stay on one train and not have to get out of it until they reached their destination in Europe. That objective is enshrined in the alternative proposals. If the hon. Gentleman has not received the details that make that clear in black and white, I shall ensure that he receives them. The proposal based on Stratford offers infinitely more to the United Kingdom than British Rail's King's Cross proposal.
I do not propose to deal in detail with the Ove Arup or the Manufacturers Hanover Trust proposals. They have been sent to hon. Members and I know that many of them want to speak in the debate. However, I end on a note that is often struck in the press : the French do it differently and the French do it better. They have adopted a strategic approach to the transport link--a grand design that links up the whole of France. They have decided that if there is to be a link between Lille, Bordeaux, Lyon and the channel tunnel, the people who live in those towns will not want to go through central Paris. They have bypassed Paris by means of a line to the east. Interestingly enough, our alternative proposals bypass London with a line to the east. The French avoided taking the line through the centre of their capital--in contrast to what British Rail proposes to do at King's Cross.
The French have also optimised the opportunity to bring prosperity and industry and therefore to improve the economy of depressed areas. Certain towns in northern France have begged the authorities to allow the rail line to go through their region because it would lead to spin off developments. The Stratford alternative would offer similar opportunities. It would go through land that does not enjoy the benefit of the prosperity that is found elsewhere. Moreover, the French have decided to link the line to the Disney theme park to be built in France. Proposals are afoot for developing Rainham marshes in Essex as an international theme park. The alternative link would take passengers from continental Europe directly to the theme park without passengers having to go to King's Cross and change trains to get to the Rainham area.
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The alternative proposals ought to be considered seriously by British Rail instead of being rubbished by it in a programme of disinformation and misinformation to hon. Members suggesting that the only solution is the one that British Rail prefers.The more one considers the proposals, the more one realises that they are wrong. I have not approached the matter negatively. There is a way forward. British Rail should talk seriously to the promoters of the alternative proposals and use a clean slate, without its existing commitments and loyalties pre-determining its approach. We need to find an alignment that serves those who wish to come to London, keeps away the threat of blight from the areas that many of us represent and provides a system that not only is part of an integrated road and rail transport infrastructure in this country but is linked to an integrated transport system for Europe. This is not an idealistic grand vision but a realistic way of looking at the problem. If we miss this opportunity, the effects will last for many years, at great expense and resulting in great tragedy.
10.40 am
Mr. Nigel Spearing (Newham, South) : Many of us would echo the sentiments expressed in the closing remarks of the hon. Member for Dulwich (Mr. Bowden) and would congratulate him on his choice of subject. Like my hon. Friend the Member for Newham, North-West (Mr. Banks), in whose constituency the possible Stratford terminal will lie, I congratulate the hon. Gentleman on his motion. In the past hour and 10 minutes, he has ranged over the problems and shown us its many facets. My only quarrel with an otherwise excellent round-up concerns the gauge--the loading gauge in the United Kingdom is more restricted than that on the continent, but the track gauge is not ; it is the same--Stephenson. British Rail has said that it will run British Rail size coaches to the continent but the reverse will not be possible. There will be some restriction on freight but, happily, I do not think that it will be necessary to change trains or bogies as the hon. Gentleman suggested.
We welcome the Minister of State to what I believe is his first main debate on these matters. He will listen, as his predecessor did, but, ironically, his predecessor's political beliefs have put him and the Government on the hook. The hook on which the Government and British Rail are impaled is their refusal to provide the capital infrastructure for a new, 21st century railway line, coupled with--a poisonous combination--the requirement or preference for some developer-led finance. Those two matters form the basis for the hook on which not only the Minister and the Government but the hapless officials of British Rail are constantly twisting to every turn either of St. Bartholomew's hospital or of the various developers who come along.
I do not have all that much sympathy for British Rail officials, who do not seem to run our railways as well as they might, but the Government are breathing down their necks and telling them to make all the economies that they can. By chance, I have just returned from Victoria station, having travelled overnight by train from Brussels.
Mr. Tony Banks (Newham, North-West) : You old tripper!
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Mr. Spearing : My hon. Friend says that I am a tripper. I was listening to the golden, honeyed words of Mr. Giscard d'Estaing and Mr. Jacques Delors--but that is another topic.Had I travelled overnight to or from Brussels 55 years ago, I should have had a much better deal, as I did a few years' ago when I could go to Victoria station on foot, climb aboard a sleeper and wake somewhere past Lille. Alas, the night ferry has disappeared and its substitute is poor. The overnight train advertised as travelling to places such as Cologne and Brussels stops at every station between Bromley and Faversham. Returning this morning, we had a two-hour wait at Dover and joined the first commuter train at 4.45 from Dover Priory, which was naturally liable to be overcrowded as it neared Victoria. That is the standard to which British Rail treats us. I commend the fact that British Rail is to have a spanking new vessel on which to put a few coaches. You may have thought, Mr. Deputy Speaker, that in a few years' time one would be able to stroll over Westminster bridge, climb aboard the new super-train at Waterloo and perhaps settle down to a nice dinner, just as you do on your way to Bristol and as my hon. Friends do on their way to places such as Manchester, but no such luck! Having spotted the design of the new super-trains, I wrote to British Rail about this. British Rail replied that it could not afford the lavish restaurant facilities that it has on its domestic services, so there will be meals at one's seat only rather like the service on the otherwise excellent TGVs and on aeroplanes, which people wish to avoid.
Mr. Rowe : The vision that the hon. Gentleman conjured up was enchanting, but he left it unpeopled. The congestion that will be caused by using Waterloo as the central terminal for the cross-channel traffic will mean that the hon. Gentleman will be dodging his way across Waterloo bridge among a horde of pedestrians.
Mr. Spearing : The hon. Gentleman may be right. That is yet another limitation to the plan.
I suggest that there are four desiderata with which we all agree. First, we must have a 21st century railway which fits in with the continental system and our own and must be built to have minimal environmental impact. Secondly, that railway will serve the whole of the United Kingdom. Thirdly, the arrangements for stations in London--I emphasise the plural "stations" and not "terminal"--must meet the strategic planning needs of London and Londoners. Fourthly, there should be sufficient through-running of passengers and freight across or around London.
As I understand it, most of those criteria are not permitted by the infrastructure costs laid down by the Government.
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