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Ultimately, they may call into question the purpose and utility of military force itself, at least in Europe, and they certainly presage some major changes in the relationship between the state, the armed forces and civil society.In the circumstances, the British public deserve a great deal more than the usual treatment that they get from the Government--a few leaked documents from Ministers or civil servants who know that they will not get their own way in the end because they must ultimately face the steamroller from No. 10, followed by a fait accompli decision about any opportunity for real debate.
I can hear Ministers say that this is a free country and that people can and do say what they like about the future of Britain's defence policy in the newspapers, on television and so on. But any such debate will take place in a complete vacuum if we are not even permitted to know what the agenda is inside Government. If the Government insist on maintaining their ridiculous secrecy, they are effectively saying to the public that defence is not a matter for them.
That may be all very well in a climate in which public support for defence spending can be relied on, but with more and more people questioning the need for large military forces and expensive equipment, a policy of closing off debate will simply reinforce the public belief that the military is an anachronism and that secrecy is merely a ploy to protect overblown budgets and pet projects from cuts. The result will be a further decline in the military's legitimacy in the eyes of taxpayers. The public will simply see no need for military spending and will not vote for it.
Opposition Members have always expressed the view that defence reviews should be open and honest. My right hon. Friend the Member for Leeds, East (Mr. Healey), who conducted such an open defence review in the 1960s, knows only too well that the price of openness can be stinging public criticism from those who have interests to defend, but that is the nature of debate and the Government should not be afraid to face it.
I wish to ask the Minister a few questions, which I realise that he might not answer this evening, so I am prepared to accept his replies in writing. How much is the review costing? Has the Foreign and Commonwealth Office been involved? Have the three service chiefs been involved? Have NATO partners been consulted? What considerations have been given to the industrial and economic consequences of the review, especially in terms of jobs? What are the spending priorities for any cash that is saved, as suggested by the Minister of State for Defence Procurement?
In any review of defence policy, the growing build-up of non-nuclear, but highly provocative and deadly, weapons systems in the third world must be considered. The proliferation of advanced weapons systems is of great concern. They include ballistic and chemical weapons, and the use of cluster bombs, launched from a 20-mile-range missile, causing damage over a 40-acre area. The advanced countries either sell those weapons directly or sell the technology.
One cannot really talk about military policy in the third world without considering chemical weapons. While a generation of British soldiers have been trained on how to fight on a chemically contaminated battlefield in central Europe, the real threat from chemical weapons is in the third world. No one can deny that chemical weapons proliferation is a problem, having seen the awful scenes of
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the Iran-Iraq war. It now seems that the brief phase of chemical rearmament of the mid-1980s may be over. Opposition Members wholeheartedly welcome the agreement that was reached last week between the Soviet Union and the United States of America, which will lead to the Americans joining the Soviets in stopping chemical weapons production, and to the cutting of the stockpiles to 20 per cent. of the current United States levels. However, we are disappointed that the Americans have thought it necessary to retain substantial, newly modernised chemical weapons, as that will be a major disincentive to other possessor countries to give up their stocks during the global chemical weapons convention.There is great concern that some biological and chemical weapons are not quite right. We have reached a stage of genetic engineering of chemical weapons and can make tailormade bugs at the same time as providing vaccines for our own troops.
Britain could be in a strong positon to argue the case. If the Americans and now the Soviets want to keep chemical weapons on the ground that they are a deterrent against, say, the Libyas, the Irans and the Iraqs of the world, they are subscribing to the hoary old myth of like-for-like deterrence.
Back in 1983, when a debate was going on within the Ministry of Defence about whether Britain should consider restarting chemical weapons production, the then Secretary of State for Defence, the right hon. Member for Henley (Mr. Heseltine) was quoted as saying that NATO doctrine rested on the belief that the west's conventional and nuclear weapons were a sufficient deterrent against chemical attack, and that NATO consequently did not need its own chemical stocks.
That argument now goes even further. Since Germany will never accept chemical weapons on its soil after the current United States stocks are removed, the new United States binary weapons can hardly be regarded as a credible deterrent against the Soviet Union. Since United States policy has specifically referred to other chemical weapons possessor countries, does that mean that the USA is prepared to use chemical weapons against countries such as Libya?
Are chemical weapons really a deterrent? The United States' possession of chemical weapons and the presence in the Gulf of aircraft carriers capable of launching airborne chemical attacks did not stop either Iran or Iraq from using poison gas on each other. The fact is that there are no conceivable circumstances in which the USA could or would drop chemical or biological gas on people in the third world without creating a storm of negative if not hostile reaction. The truth is that super-power chemical stocks have no military utility. Any threat to use them is empty. Britain should therefore argue strongly for the USA and Soviet Union--and, indeed, France--to abandon all their stocks at the earliest possible date as part of a global ban, reached through the chemical disarmament talks. I accept that there are severe problems in getting the mavericks--Hussein, Gaddafi and so on--to join a global ban. That will be one of the foremost tasks of those negotiating the chemical weapons convention. One thing is
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certain. As long as the United States, the Soviets and the French keep their chemical weapons, there will be no incentive for anyone else to give them up.Britain should go back to its long-held position, established when we abandoned our offensive capability in the 1950s. That is that one does not need chemical weapons to deter a chemical attack. The Government have stressed for some years that the Soviet Union has a massive chemical stockpile. On several occasions they stated publicly that they believed that the Soviet Union's stockpile was about six times greater than the 50,000 tonnes now claimed. Although this year's defence estimates are rather more coy about the figures, they restate that position and say that the Government believe that the Soviet stockpile
"exceeds that claimed in their public statements."
Only the week before the 1990 defence estimates were published, the Under- Secretary of State for the Armed Forces said in another place :
"our current estimate of the stock of chemical weapons in Russia is about 50,000 tonnes."
After all the accusations of lying and cheating, the Government now believe the Soviets' own figures. Moreover, the Minister went on to say :
"we are not aware of any recent significant changes in the Soviet Union's chemical warfare capability."--[ Official Report, House of Lords, 29 March 1990 ; Vol. 517, c. 963-4.]
I hope that the Minister can confirm that that is indeed the Government's new position and will explain why his intelligence has suddenly cut the estimate to one sixth of the previous estimate. I intended to speak about NATO and the Warsaw treaty. The hon. Member for Dorset, West (Sir J. Spicer), who is not in his place, said that the Warsaw treaty organisation barely exists. That provides an opportunity for a transition to forms of international politics in Europe that are not predicated on the ever- present threat of unleashing mass destruction. As long as we feel that we cannot trust each other, our attempts to solve serious political problems will always be based on threats of violence. If the institutions that we use to seek solutions are themselves founded on the concept of political coercion by threatening violence, we shall have narrowed the options from the start.
Perhaps NATO has a transitional role and will help to shape new ideas for the security of Europe. But as Sir Michael Howard said in a lecture at King's college in March :
"There is a need for thinking as bold and innovative as that called for 40 years ago if NATO is not to be seen as a dinosaur, an obstacle to rather than an instrument for the remaking of Europe."
That bold new thinking must take account, initially at least, of the established co-operation of the CSCE process. That offers us a proven working forum that has some potential to move beyond bloc-to-bloc relations. It also has the advantage that it can deal effectively with military questions as well as economic, cultural and political issues.
There is now an opportunity for discussions about how the CSCE process could be used to develop a new European security order. It does not follow that that involves the immediate dismantling of NATO. As Manfred Wo"rner said on television today, NATO could be one of the props in the CSCE process. There are risks as well as opportunities in the CSCE process. However, the climate is being created in which those matters can be considered seriously. We are approaching a time when east
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and west must mutually consider the role of the military in Europe beyond non-provocative defence. Out of CFE we must build up confidence on both sides through verification processes by an agreed inspectorate, which would lead to exchanges of information. Whatever the reality or, indeed, the perception of the Soviet threat, we cannot escape the fact that the CFE treaty and political trends in Germany-- whether it is unified or not--could mean a major cut in the British Army of the Rhine. Of course, that will be a major topic of discussion in the two- plus-four talks.In common with Conservative Members, we pay tribute to the skill, professionalism and dedication of our armed personnel in all ranks, many of whom are often at risk. Unfortunately at this time those at risk regrettably include their wives and children. Not only the politicians, but the Army must recognise the significance of the change in the nature of the threat. Inevitably that will lead to a slimmed-down Army. The Army must still be provided, however, with the most up-to-date equipment and the trained personnel to carry out efficiently and effectively whatever task it is asked to undertake by the nation.
9.44 pm
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Defence Procurement (Mr. Michael Neubert) : In opening the debate, my hon. Friend the Minister of State for the Armed Forces gave a positive message. The dramatic changes in the Soviet Union and eastern Europe have profound and complex implications for European security. Their full import is not yet clear, nor will it be for some time ahead. What is clear is that there is much to be resolved and negotiated. Our primary aim is, as it always has been, to maintain our security. We hope that the changes in Europe mean that we can achieve this aim at lower force levels and at reduced cost.
This changing scene naturally raises much speculation and uncertainty about the future role and structure of the three services. That uncertainty is, of course, felt within the services and, as the hon. and learned Member for Fife, North-East (Mr. Campbell) observed, especially by the Army. The House knows that my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State is currently examining the options for the United Kingdom's defence policy for the 1990s and the next century, and the structures that would be needed to support them. Hon. Members would not expect me to comment on those considerations tonight. It follows from that that it would be premature for me to speculate on how the Army itself may change, but, whatever happens, we will still need the Army's traditional strengths of versatility and flexibility.
The House will be grateful to all those hon. Members who have taken part in the debate. So numerous were they that the majority of speeches had to be time-limited, including the concluding speeches from the Front Benches. I shall endeavour, of course, to attempt to address some of the many points that have been raised today and to ensure that others are answered in writing. I also hope to say something myself if time allows.
As usual, the debate has benefited from Members' experience and expertise. It was welcome to hear the comments of the hon. Members for Western Isles (Mr. Macdonald) and for Gower (Mr. Wardell) about their
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experience of the armed forces parliamentary scheme. That is one contribution to a greater understanding of the part the services play in the defence of our nation.The first issue that I want to address was raised by the hon. Member for Rhondda (Mr. Rogers) who opened the debate for the Opposition. To be the Opposition spokesman on defence deserves some small compensations or it would be a thankless task in the extreme. He mentioned what the Defence Committee report said about commercial security guards. At Deal, Reliance did not employ any personnel with criminal records. All commercial guards are vetted by the Ministry of Defence. The competence of Reliance was not in question and it was supported by armed Royal Marines guards.
The individual with the alleged 500 criminal convictions was taken on by Reliance, but was not employed by it as he quit when he realised that his record was under investigation by the company. He was never part of the Deal complement. Commercial guards are not used solely to guard military installations where service men work and sleep--they are used to augment the Ministry of Defence police and service guards who may be armed.
Mr. Rogers rose --
Mr. Neubert : Before the hon. Gentleman rises to intervene on this subject again, I counsel him to observe the advice of the Select Committee on Defence--that one should not prejudge the lessons to be learnt from the incident at Deal without knowing the full facts.
Mr. Rogers : I do not want to prejudge anything in relation to Deal, but it is important to be clear about who was employed by Reliance Security Services. As I understand from the evidence given to the Select Committee, the man with 500 convictions was recommended to the job by a man with whom he served in prison, who was working with Reliance and told him that he should join the company. The Minister should check that, as his information may be wrong. The man may not have been employed at Deal, but he was certainly employed as a commercial security guard by the MOD.
Mr. Neubert : The hon. Member is incorrigible and I shall not attempt to instruct him further on that point.
The hon. Gentleman also raised the question of service accommodation. Again, the figure that he quoted is not recognised by my officials and we shall have to look into the matter further to identify which figure he wants updated. I assure him that there is a substantial programme of works to upgrade married quarters and single accommodation in our older property, and new building produces some very desirable residences indeed.
The hon. Gentleman quoted from a book, apparently published last September, which was critical of today's Army. He was careful not to endorse the criticisms, but he gave them wide publicity by including them in his speech. Included among the phrases he quoted was the term "ruthless careerism." I cannot see how that could be applied so much to the Army as to the occupants of the Labour Front Bench, who are prepared to deny their deepest, innermost socialist convictions in public in a futile attempt to persuade the British public to vote Labour at the next general election. They will fail.
My hon. Friend the Member for Hampshire, East (Mr. Mates), the incorrigible hon. Member for Rhondda and others mentioned the Defence Committee's sixth report.
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As my hon. Friend the Minister of State said, we welcome the report and will be responding in the usual way. I will not prejudge that response now, but, on the point raised by my hon. Friend the Member for Hampshire, East about Ministry of Defence police at Royal Ordnance factories, I can say that we are having discussions with British Aerospace and other interested parties, and we hope to reach a satisfactory outcome.On the point about Bishopton raised by the hon. Member for Greenock and Port Glasgow (Dr. Godman), I can report that the Ministry of Defence police force at the site will be withdrawn during this month. It is being replaced by Royal Ordnance plc guard force personnel, who are being trained by personnel from Strathclyde police force. The chief constable of Strathclyde is satisfied with those arrangements, entered into in consultation with the Ministry of Defence and the company. His police force will supply the armed response if required.
Crucial to the effectiveness and efficiency of the services are their men and women, both in terms of their quality and quantity-- Mr. Dalyell rose - -
Mr. Neubert : I hope that the hon. Gentleman will forgive me if I do not give way. I have little time left.
It is on personal issues in the main that I intend to focus in my speech. The interests of service personnel are close to the hearts of many hon. Members.
Mr. Dalyell rose --
Mr. Neubert : I really must get on.
Mr. Dalyell : The Minister is supposed to be answering the debate.
Mr. Neubert : If the hon. Gentleman will permit me, I will answer the debate. Only a few minutes remain. I have much to say, without the hon. Member for Linlithgow (Mr. Dalyell) raising further questions. He spent the whole of his 10 minutes asking a series of questions, and he should be satisfied with that.
We seek to offer an attractive opportunity for a worthwhile career for both officers and soldiers--
Mr. Dalyell rose --
Mr. Speaker : Order. The Minister is clearly not giving way.
Mr. Neubert : We seek to offer an attractive opportunity for a worthwhile career for officers and soldiers which provides plenty of challenge and job satisfaction and is well supported and properly rewarded in financial terms. Only in that way will we persuade the right calibre of people to commit themselves to a career in the Army.
As the House is aware, we have for some time been increasingly concerned by an inability to recruit and retain sufficient numbers of young people in the services, especially in the Army, which is by far the most manpower- intensive. The key points that influence us are, first, that manpower is our most precious asset--slightly more than half the Army's total budget is spent on pay and manpower-related matters--and secondly, that our serving men and women are expensively trained and
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skilled in a world in which skill shortages are increasing. They are also well disciplined and well motivated. They are, in consequence, highly attractive to outside employers.Future requirements will be influenced by decisions about the shape and size of the Army. In that Army, air mobility may well have an important part to play. I cannot respond to the points made by my hon. Friends, but I can confirm that the House of Commons air mobile brigade is well staffed by my hon. Friends the Members for Dorset, West (Sir J. Spicer), for Weston- super-Mare (Mr. Wiggin), for Romsey and Waterside (Mr. Colvin) and for Windsor and Maidenhead (Sir A. Glyn), and there may be others. But whatever the eventual outcome, it is clear that recruiting will become that much more difficult with the onset of the demographic trough.
As the House is well aware, the fall in the number of young people has already begun and will continue for some years. The resulting competition from other employers for that falling number of potential employees is making it ever more difficult to recruit and retain all the men and women for the Army that we would like. The Army succeeded in recruiting just over 22,000 officers and soldiers last year--a record achievement, reflecting the sterling effort put into the work. Nevertheless, it was about 5,000 under the trained strength requirement at 31 March this year.
In contrast with that success on the recruitment front, outflow remains far higher than we would like and led to an increase in the Army's undermanning. About 25,000 people left the Army last year. We propose to introduce a wide-ranging strategy to improve manning. Retaining expensively trained manpower is essential, and the principle of maintaining comparability of pay plays a vital part in this. Once again, the Government have accepted the recommendations of the Armed Forces Pay Review Body, giving the armed forces an average increase in pay of 9.4 per cent. with three quarters of the award coming from 1 April last and the remainder from 1 January next year. We have also accepted the review body's recommendation that the service X factor should rise by 0.5 per cent. to compensate for the special difficulties of life in the services. The full increase in the pay bill this year is 10.9 per cent.
We are directing our spending particularly towards improving the retention of trained Army personnel. With effect from January next year, committal bonuses are being introduced for both officers and soldiers. Officers will be paid a bonus of £6,500 on promotion to captain and a further bonus of £6,500 on promotion to major. Payment will be made on completing six years service for captains and nine years for majors. In return, those accepting bonuses will be expected to complete at least three further years service. For soldiers, those completing five or eight years service on or after January 1991 will be paid a bonus of £2,000 subject to a commitment to serve for at least a further 12 months. New entrants will join after 1 January next year on new terms of engagement, and will be eligible for bonuses after five and eight years service.
I was sorry to miss the speech by my hon. and learned Friend the Member for Colchester, North (Sir A. Buck) and to hear about his experience at the military correction training centre. I shall read it with pleasure in Hansard tomorrow.
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I should like to respond to the request by my hon. Friend the Member for Beckenham (Sir P. Goodhart) by confirming that we have proposals for the formation of an Adjutant-General's Corps. Further work is under way to give effect to the decision already announced and to establish which existing corps functions should be included in the new corps. We are considering the Royal Army Chaplain's department, the corps of the Royal Military Police, the Royal Army Pay Corps, the Military Provost Staff Corps, the Royal Army Education Corps and the Army Legal Corps. In addition, the staff clerk functions currently carried out by the Royal Army Ordnance Corps and the Women's Royal Army Corps will be considered for inclusion in the new corps. About 6,500 uniformed personnel are involved. It is obviously too early for me to be able to report to the House on the precise size and composition of the new corps, but I hope that the necessary work can be completed and decisions taken by the end of the year.Several of my hon. Friends warmly commended the Territorial Army. I confirm that the contribution made by the Territorial Army to our defence capability is substantial. Over 76,000 TA volunteers, including members of the Home Service Force, form an integral part of our mobilised order of battle. Beyond that, about 180,000 ex-Regular reservists form a vital pool from which TA and Regular Army units can be reinforced, and are a valuable source of military expertise. I was interested in the point, made by my hon. Friend the Member for Wealden (Sir G. Johnson Smith), which was reinforced by my hon. Friend the Member for Beckenham about mixed units of Regulars and reservists. That will be considered. As I have said, Regular Army units can be reinforced. Like the rest of the armed forces, the TA has suffered from manning problems, especially retention, but we have seen a most positive response to our volunteer reserve forces campaign. That was aimed at securing a wider public understanding of the volunteer reserves, with over 800 major firms pledging support. Employers understand the benefits that their own organisations can reap from supporting their employees joining the TA, a point made by the hon. Member for Fermanagh and South Tyrone (Mr. Maginnis). Membership of the TA not only trains a man or woman to be a good soldier but develops qualities such as leadership, responsibility, discipline and self-confidence, which are just as valuable in the commercial world. For the future, I am confident that the TA is in good shape and well poised to meet the changes likely to take place in the years ahead. There is no question but that it will continue to play a vital role in the future and will prove able to meet the challenging operational and technical requirements of the years to come.
The changing international climate presents great challenges and holds out prospects of great promise. Some uncertainty is inescapable, but in the meantime, the Army's contribution to maintaining stability and security for the nation is vital. We can be confident that the Army will be equal to the task.
It being Ten o'clock, the motion for the Adjournment of the House lapsed, without Question put.
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Miss Carol Dempster
Motion made, and Question proposed, That this House do now adjourn.-- [Mr. Fallon.]
10 pm
Mr. Robert G. Hughes (Harrow, West) : I rise to put a constituency case, that of Miss Carol Dempster, aged 25, who was involved in a traffic accident in October 1988. This accident was first with a black Sierra travelling in the opposite direction from her and then with a police car. Despite the circumstances of the accident and the seriousness with which I and people in the Home Office view this, the Metropolitan police refuse to pay her compensation.
Carol Dempster was travelling along Barnet lane near my constituency in the direction of the A1 on a Friday evening at approximately 9.30 at night. A black Ford Sierra came round the bend travelling at high speed. She said that she knew that he would hit her so she pulled the car into the left hand side of the road, turning the bonnet into the kerb. The black Sierra hit her car on the side of the front wing and the door and then carried on up the road. By this time, as far as she knew, Miss Dempster was stationary or moving only slowly.
Just after that, a police Rover came round the bend travelling at high speed. There is some question whether it was doing 70 or 90 mph, but both are high speeds. The car then hit the rear wing and wheels of her car, doing extensive damage. Miss Dempster's car may have been slightly over the white line or just touching it, but it could not have been far over, as the boot of a Triumph Spitfire is quite small.
The response of the police after this accident comes into several categories. First, when Miss Dempster was wandering around dazed and injured--luckily, only slightly--she received no help from police who were around at the time. To be fair, the police have since apologised for that. When Miss Dempster sought compensation from the police, she met with a shocking response. In a letter from the claims officer of the Metropolitan police claims branch to her solicitor on 22 February 1989, Mr. J. M. Comer said :
"Your client took evasive action but, unfortunately, ran into the oncoming police vehicle causing injury to the occupants of both vehicles."
That statement cannot possibly be true and should never have been made by an official of the Metropolitan police.
After the representations that I made to the Commissioner of Police of the Metropolis, to the receiver and to the Home Office, the Home Office wrote to the receiver suggesting that compensation be paid to Miss Dempster. The letter said :
"The Lord Ferris would be grateful, however, if you could review the decision in this case in the light of the points which were made by Mr. Hughes and if you would consider the possibility of making some payment to Miss Dempster in order to compensate her for the loss which she sustained through no fault of her own."
That has been met with a blanket "no" from the receiver of the Metropolitan police.
Why do I raise this case, as distinct from the three years of cases that I- -like other hon. Members--have encountered in my constituency advice bureaux? It is not just because of the seriousness of the loss that Carol
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Dempster has suffered, but because I believe that it is an indicator of a wider problem. High-speed police chases are controversial, both nationally and locally in Harrow.I attended a meeting of the police consultative committee in Harrow, where the topic was discussed over a long period. Many people took the view that the police should not be allowed to travel at high speed to chase criminals. I did not share that view ; I took the view then--as I do now-- that if the police, for operational reasons known only to themselves, believe that they should chase someone at high speed--although we know the practice to be dangerous--they should retain the right to do so. What is more, they should have the support of hon. Members in carrying out that difficult work.
The police need our support, but until the case was brought to my attention I believed--as, I think, would other hon. Members--that in the event of an accident in which property was damaged or an individual was unfortunately hurt, the police would take a generous attitude in compensating the person, recognising that they needed to carry out their work. My concern is not just for the unfortunate plight of my constituent, Carol Dempster, but for the wider issue of support for the Metropolitan police.
The attitude taken by the receiver of the Metropolitan police does no favours to the policeman on the beat, or to policemen who have been--or will be--engaged in high-speed pursuit. People will think twice before backing the police in such circumstances, or in other circumstances involving difficult or dangerous police work, if they suspect an ungenerous attitude will be taken by the Metropolitan police in the event of an accident.
There should be a review of the general Metropolitan police policy that
"Where (as here) a car is being pursued by police in the execution of their duty and an accident occurs the clear principle which applies is that unless there is evidence that police action could not be justified in the public interest or did not conform to a reasonable standard of care, then no legal liability falls upon the police to pay compensation."
That is not good enough, either for the policemen carrying out the work or for the public who would want to suppport them.
I am asking for two things. First, I am firmly of the opinion that the police should make at least an ex gratia payment to Carol Dempster for her loss : to a 25-year-old, £1,000 is a great deal of money. Secondly, there should be a new look at policy. Why should the police take such an ungenerous attitude? I have been informed that the position would be different had the incident occurred outside London ; the Metropolitan police are operating differently from other police forces. I should like them to examine the matter. I also ask my hon. Friend the Minister to see whether moves can be made by the Home Office to see whether that policy can be changed.
My constituent is £1,000 worse off. She had no comprehensive insurance ; which of us had at that age? For her sake, and for the sake of others in London, there should be a review. I urge the Minister to examine the facts that I have laid before the House, and to see whether anything can be done to ensure that when such an unfortunate accident happens again--as, inevitably, it will
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--the public will know that they will be compensated by the Metropolitan police, to keep their good name and the support of the public.10.10 pm
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for the Home Department (Mr. Peter Lloyd) : I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Harrow, West (Mr. Hughes) on taking the trouble to secure this debate and he explained forcefully why he did. He drew attention to the widespread concern about the danger to innocent members of the public who are caught up in police pursuits and suggested that there may be a need to provide some public indemnity against loss through personal injury or damage to property if good public-police relations are to be maintained.
My hon. Friend's constituent, Miss Carol Dempster with whom we all have great sympathy--was, as he has clearly shown, just such an innocent member of the public who had the misfortune to be caught up in a police car chase. As a result, her car was badly damaged. She looks, not unnaturally, to the police for compensation, but finds, alas--as my hon. Friend correctly recounted--that they disclaim legal liability. My hon. Friend has expressed his view that the police have a moral responsibility to recompense an innocent member of the public in such circumstances.
It might be helpful if I, too, set out the facts of the case and identify the areas of dispute before discussing the way in which the case has been handled. On the evening of Wednesday 26 October 1988, a police officer stationed at Borehamwood police station saw a Ford Sierra motor car in St. Albans being driven by a man whom he knew to be disqualified from holding a licence. The police officer obtained a warrant for the man's arrest. Two days later, on 28 October, the driver of the Sierra, who has a record of theft from motor vehicles, went drinking at a number of public houses in Borehamwood, and broke into and stole property from two motor cars.
At about 9.35 pm the car was spotted in a hotel car park by the same officer who had seen him on the Wednesday evening. The man failed to stop when required to do so and drove off at speed, followed by the police vehicle. The Sierra was driven at speeds in excess of 70 mph in a 30 mph zone, with apparent reckless disregard for the safety of others. It swerved from side to side and hit one vehicle in the course of the pursuit. In Deacons Hill road, Borehamwood, the driver lost control of his vehicle, crossing into the path of Miss Dempster's car before crashing into a telegraph pole. Miss Dempster took avoiding action, but her car was hit by the Sierra. That, I understand, spun her car round before it was hit by the police pursuit car.
The driver of the Sierra was arrested and subsequently convicted of driving while disqualified, theft, possession of an offensive weapon, driving while unfit through drink, failing to provide a specimen and using a motor vehicle while uninsured.
Miss Dempster claims that, after she took action to avoid the Sierra, her car remained on the correct side of the road where it was hit by the police car, which had crossed into her carriageway. The police officer on the other hand alleges that Miss Dempster swerved to his side of the road, where the collision took place. As my hon. Friend knows, it is not unusual following a car accident for the drivers to
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dispute the exact sequence of events. That matter is usually left to be settled between insurance companies. If agreement cannot be reached, the matter can be resolved in the courts. Once liability is determined, any claims can be settled.Unfortunately, Miss Dempster, as she was perfectly entitled, had chosen not to take out a comprehensive policy of insurance and was insured only against third party risk. As my hon. Friend remarked, premiums for young people can be high and some prefer to make a saving and accept the risk of carrying the cost of any repairs or replacement of their vehicles if they are damaged. She was also, of course, unable to obtain the support of an insurance company in arguing her case that the Metropolitan police have legal liability. However, legal liability could be established only if it could be shown that the police action in pursuing the car either could not be justified in the public interest or did not conform to a reasonable standard of care. The Metropolitan police carry their own risks and the force's accident claims branch acts, in effect, as an internal insurance compay for the receiver for the Metropolitan police district. If the branch concludes, on a consideration of all the facts of a case, that no legal liability rests upon the force, compensation is not paid. When an accident involves a car being pursued by the police in the execution of their duty, the branch must be additionally satisfied that the police action can be justified in the public interest and that it conformed to a reasonable standard of care.
A police officer faces a genuine dilemma, as I think that my hon. Friend was suggesting, in maintaining a balance between the apprehension of an offender and the safety of the public. If a driver fails to stop, the officer does not know whether he is dealing with a trivial matter or a serious offence. He has to make a very quick decision.
Responsibility for the manner in which a pursuit is undertaken rests solely, as it must, with the driver of the police car. While he is legally exempt from the observance of the speed limits and certain traffic lights and signs, he is not exempt from other requirements of traffic law. Crossroads, side roads and pedestrians must be carefully watched. The police driver is liable for the quality of his driving in the same way as any other driver.
The driver of the Sierra was wanted on a warrant for driving while disqualified. He refused to stop when required, and his actions throughout confirmed that he had no intention of stopping when required to do so by the police. Furthermore, the police driver was an experienced driver who had qualified as an advanced driver, which enabled him to drive at high speed with as much safety as possible in the circumstances.
The accident claims branch has considerable experience of motor accident claims and dealt, in the 1988-89 financial year, with more than 1,500 claims and payments totalling nearly £1 million. Therefore, there are many occasions when the police do pay out when they consider that they have a liability. The claims branch is satisfied that the evidence in this case is consistent with the Sierra driver forcing Miss Dempster's car into the path of the police vehicle while the latter was being driven on the correct side of the road, and that no liability rests with the Metropolitan police.
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