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Mr. Cope : I am not sure of the distinction that the right hon. Gentleman draws. We do our best to legislate to ensure that human rights are protected.
Rev. William McCrea : Bearing in mind the fact that the Minister has told the House that human rights are well protected within Northern Ireland, and accepting that the greatest human right to be protected is the right to live, will the Minister tell the House why it is that an increasing number of contractors in my constituency are daily threatened by the IRA, why men are forced into unemployment, why bombs are put under employees' cars, and why people are slaughtered? Is not it time that the Government brought the nightmare of terrorism to an end, so that the people of Ulster can enjoy the right to live?
Mr. Cope : We fight terrorism in all its forms, and I particularly deplore the terrorism aimed against contractors, to which the hon. Gentleman draws our attention. We are taking every step that we can to bring it to an end.
Community Workshops
9. Mr. Ron Davies : To ask the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland when he next intends to meet representatives of the Northern Ireland Association of Community Workshops to discuss provision of community workshops.
Mr. Needham : I shall meet representatives of the community workshop network at a conference in mid-October.
Mr. Davies : Is the Minister aware that there is growing concern among community workshop managers that the Government foresee a diminishing role for them in the provision of youth training? Does the Minister agree that there is an increasing need for a more varied and higher-quality provision of youth training? When he next meets representatives of the association, will he take the opportunity to give them a categorical assurance of his commitment to them, and of their positive role in providing training?
Mr. Needham : I do not have to wait to meet the association ; I can give the hon. Gentleman and the community workshop managers that assurance now. Community workshops in Northern Ireland do a very
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good job, but they have been expensive providers. They have not provided some of the qualifications that we would have looked for in training throughout Northern Ireland and some workshops are more expensive than others. We are looking for value for money, and increased, wider training. To that end, we shall support the workshops in evey way possible. I give the hon. Gentleman that assurance.Mr. A. Cecil Walker : I refer to the corporate plan, as proposed by the Minister in the new document. Will he please let us know where the community workshops figure in that plan and whether it will be open for discussion with the community workshops involved?
Mr. Needham : Anything that we do with community workshops will be open to discussion. They provide training for a little over 2,000 people out of a total of 9,000 on the youth training programme. The key factor is to make certain that when youngsters leave, they have the skills and qualifications that will lead to employment, and we are working together to ensure that community workshops throughout Northern Ireland provide them as effectively and professionally as possible.
Mr. Jim Marshall : The Minister must be aware that morale among community workshop managers is low at the moment, and that there is increasing concern about the application of the new block funding scheme. Will he give an undertaking that, if it becomes apparent during this financial year that the new financial scheme is acting to the disadvantage of community workshops, he will review the scheme at the end of the financial year?
Mr. Needham : I appreciate the hon. Gentleman's understanding of the workshops and his intervention, but I have to say to him that I do not accept that the morale of managers is as he says it is. Nor do I accept that the vast majority of them are not playing the best part that they can to work the new scheme, which will lead to increasing qualifications and skills, and therefore to increased employment. Of course, we shall consider with the managers the level of support that we are giving them, but they will have to ensure that they get as many of their youngsters as possible out into the private sector to be trained and thus earning fees for themselves. That will increase the amount of experience gained by young people, which they need to get jobs.
Strangford Lough
10. Mr. John D. Taylor : To ask the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland what opportunity there will be for the residents around Strangford Lough in its future management following the declaration of the three areas of specific scientific interest for the lough.
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Northern Ireland (Mr. Peter Bottomley) : Resident owners and users continue to managetheir land.
Mr. Taylor : Is the Minister aware of the concern of many people around Strangford Lough about the declaration of the site of special scientific interest, and the proposals for a marine nature reserve? Does the Minister agree that the people who use the lough, those who farm around it and the residents should be involved in its management? I know that the Minister's officials met the
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Strangford Lough Nature Conservation Association this morning, but does not he agree that the best prospects for conservation would be to involve the local people? Therefore, will he agree personally to meet that association, which is now supported by more than 300 residents from around Strangford Lough?Mr. Bottomley : There would be much more of a fuss if we had not declared the foreshore to be an area of special scientific interest. If we were not moving towards establishing a marine nature reserve, there would also rightly be a fuss. Most of the concerns are totally misplaced, as I have explained on two occasions.
I hope that people will continue to manage their own land in ways that are consistent with the importance of the lough and, if sensible discussions need to continue, I am perfectly happy to be involved in them. I ask people, as well as looking at the law, to start looking at the use of the lough. We can combine uses that are economic, recreational and environmental with the protection of the water and the foreshore.
Kincora Boys Home
11. Mr. Dalyell : To ask the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland what information his Department received concerning obstruction into the process of inquiry into alleged sexual abuse of boys and the Kincora boys home.
Mr. Cope : I do not believe that any relevant information was withheld from successive inquiries.
Mr. Dalyell : What evidence does the Minister have for that opinion? Does he share the disgust of many of us that for some reason the interests of the security forces apparently took precedence over the interests of vulnerable boys in care in a real sense and under the guardianship of the nation?
Mr. Cope : My opinion comes from my study of the papers on the matter. I would share the concern that the hon. Gentleman expressed if I thought that the facts were as he described them. I do not believe that they were ; the RUC had information, but, as Sir George Terry's report explained, that information was acted on not immediately but only some years later.
PRIME MINISTER
Engagements
Q1. Mr. Ronnie Campbell : To ask the Prime Minister if she will list her official engagements for Thursday 21 June.
The Prime Minister (Mrs. Margaret Thatcher) : This morning I presided at a meeting of the Cabinet and had meetings with ministerial colleagues and others. In addition to my duties in the House, I shall be having further meetings later today, including one with the Mayor of Paris, Mr. Jacques Chirac, and this evening I shall preside at a dinner in honour of the Crown Prince of Morocco.
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Mr. Campbell : Will the Prime Minister commission an inquiry by the social services inspectorate into establishing the allegations that staff shortages in Wandsworth council resulted in the death of a three-year-old child?
The Prime Minister : No. Obviously that tragic case affected us all greviously. As the hon. Gentleman is aware, the death of that child occurred in August 1989. The details of the case are being thoroughly looked into. Wandsworth council had already spent a great deal on that case, including at one stage removing that family to another place of residence at the cost of some £15,000. They were moved to a residential home and then back into a council house. Wandsworth has a very good record on social workers, having about 4 per cent. more social workers in relation to its population than other inner London authorities. This is a tragic case. Of course, there has been an inquiry and the recommendations of that inquiry will be accepted.
Mr. Teddy Taylor : Is my right hon. Friend at all concerned that on Tuesday the European Court instructed our courts to consider interim relief from sections of the Merchant Shipping Act 1988 although the House of Lords decided that it had no powers to do so? Until we accept that European law is supreme over our own law, is not it a dangerous development that the court is effectively taking on the power to suspend sections of laws passed by this Parliament? Will not that open up the possibility and likelihood that groups and individuals will seek relief from laws passed by this Parliament simply by going to the European Court and claiming that they have lost as a consequence of those laws?
The Prime Minister : I share my hon. Friend's concern about that judgment. As he said, since the European Communities Act 1972, our courts have been obliged to protect rights under Community law, but the European Court has now said that where those rights are impaired by British law, our courts have the power to grant an injunction until the main case is heard. That applies to what my hon. Friend said, although the injunction may affect the operation of an Act of our own Parliament. The European Court has left it to our courts to decide whether or not to exercise that power. The case in question now goes back to our courts to decide whether the power to give interim relief should be used. We shall argue strongly that it should not. Meanwhile, the position on fishing rights remains unchanged. I should point out that the European Court's decision applies to all European countries, not only to the United Kingdom.
Mr. Kinnock : Does the Prime Minister agree with the statement that the proposals put forward by the Chancellor last night are "a very useful intermediate step"
towards "a Single European Currency"--the view, and indeed the words, of the Governor of the Bank of England?
The Prime Minister : That is not quite what my right hon. Friend the Chancellor said, in a most excellent and constructive speech-- [Interruption.]
The Prime Minister : --which has been very widely welcomed as building on the present position, going forward in an evolutionary way. We should bear it in mind
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that many other countries may wish to join the Community, and not make it more difficult for them to do so. The speech does not mean that we approve of a single European currency ; it says specifically that we do not. It provides for a common European currency, which each country may use if it wishes to do so. That does not therefore take away from our sovereignty. It provides a way of trying to get inflation down by reference to a hard ecu. I was not quite sure whether the right hon. Gentleman said that he had read the speech or, if he had read it, whether he understood it.Mr. Kinnock : By all means, I have read the speech. I wonder whether the Chancellor explained to the right hon. Lady that if the idea that he put forward were accepted, with the European Monetary Fund and the hard ecu, it would be the final surrender of monetary sovereignty by Britain, as sterling moved into the hard ecu. Does she take that into account in the view that she expresses about what the Chancellor said?
The Prime Minister : The purpose of that speech, and that proposal, is precisely that we do not surrender control over our monetary policy. Of course, we wish to use monetary policy in a way that gets inflation down, but the proposal does not surrender control over that policy.
Mr. Kinnock : I am grateful to the right hon. Lady. These are important matters. Is she saying, in the responses that she has made thus far, that when the Governor of the Bank of England said to the House of Lords yesterday that a European Monetary Fund and a hard ecu would, and I quote him precisely,
"be a very useful intermediate step between the existing EC currencies and a single EC currency"
he was wrong?
The Prime Minister : I suggest that the right hon. Gentleman reads more carefully the speech of my right hon. Friend the Chancellor, which proposes building on the existing ecu--the City has already issued securities denominated in ecu--to have a hard ecu, which could become a common European currency available for countries to use if they so choose. It retains the choice and it retains sterling.
Mr. Speaker : We now come to Question 3.
Mr. Speaker : Order. It is all right. I shall come back to Question 2.
Q3. Mr. Bill Walker : To ask the Prime Minister if she will list her official engagements for Thursday 21 June :
The Prime Minister : I refer my hon. Friend to the reply that I gave some moments ago.
Mr. Walker : Is my right hon. Friend aware that in the 11 years of her leadership the economy in Scotland has been transformed into a dynamic, vibrant and modern economy? Will she confirm that she has no plans to introduce an assembly Act, which would give Scotland an assembly in Edinburgh with tax-raising powers and which would place in jeopardy that modern, vibrant economy?
The Prime Minister : I agree with my hon. Friend. Scotland is doing better than ever before because of this Government's policies, which Scotland has taken to very well indeed and is using profitably to her own advantage.
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We have no plans to introduce an assembly. If one took into account all Scotland's own spending, with Scotland having to bear all its own expenditure, it would mean an additional 20p on the standard rate of income tax in Scotland.North-east Scotland
Q2. Mr. McAllion : To ask the Prime Minister when she next expects to visit the north-east of Scotland.
The Prime Minister : I hope to visit the north-east of Scotland later this year.
Mr. McAllion : Is the Prime Minister aware that the Speedlink rail freight service that serves the north-east of Scotland faces closure because of her plans to sell off parts of British Rail? Is she further aware that such a closure would lead to 100,000 tonnes of timber being moved from rail to road, which would create an additional 18,000 lorry movements every year on Scotland's already overcrowded roads? Given that such a development makes no economic sense, does the Prime Minister accept that the price to be paid by the rest of us for her personal obsession with privatisation is too high and that she should instruct British Rail to retain the existing Speedlink service?
The Prime Minister : Some of us think when we visit Scotland and travel on her roads that they are very much better than the roads down south, and not nearly so crowded. Scotland has had an enormous amount of money spent on her roads. Current investment levels in British Rail are the highest, in real terms, for a quarter of a century, with £3.7 billion to be invested over the next three years.
Engagements
Q4. Mr. Bellingham : To ask the Prime Minister if she will list her official engagements for Thursday 21 June.
The Prime Minister : I refer my hon. Friend to the reply that I gave some moments ago.
Mr. Bellingham : Does the Prime Minister share the widely felt concern about human rights in Romania? Does she agree that neither Britain nor the EEC should extend further assistance to Romania in the present circumstances, except of a purely humanitarian kind?
The Prime Minister : I share my hon. Friend's concern. After all that the Romanian people have been through, we were absolutely horrified to see on television a repetition of previous scenes and the violence being used by the miners. We were also very much concerned about the fate of some of the demonstrators who were arrested. We have invoked the Helsinki agreement to seek information from the Romanian Government about their fate. In the meantime, the European Community is quite right to refuse to sign a trade and co-operation agreement with Romania. Romania will not be invited to the ministerial meeting of the Group of 24 on 4 July to discuss aid to eastern Europe. We think that that is a proper response to the scenes that we saw and witnessed on television.
Mr. Ashdown : Does the Prime Minister realise that, whatever the flaws--I suspect that they will be fatal--in the Chancellor's new proposals for competing currencies, it is nevertheless very welcome that her Cabinet colleagues,
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or at least some of them, have managed to lever her forward an inch or two on Europe? The Prime Minister has said that this is an evolutionary approach. An evolutionary approach must have an objective. Will the Prime Minister repeat to the House what she has said before : that she does not believe that Britain should, or will in her lifetime, join a single European currency or a central European bank?The Prime Minister : I think that the proposals outlined by my right hon. Friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer are the right way ahead : to build on the existing ecu. We have issued securities denominated in ecu. It meets the wish of many people to have a common currency. That is quite different from a single currency. The common currency would be the new ecu. It means that those who wish to use the new ecu in place of their own currency may do so. I do not believe that we shall. It also provides protection against inflation. Furthermore, it would not be an impediment to many east European countries that may wish to join us later. If, however, we tied ourselves up too closely and relinquished our monetary powers to a central authority, they would not wish to join ; nor should we wish to relinquish the powers of this House.
Q5. Mr. Irvine : To ask the Prime Minister if she will list her official engagements for Thursday 21 June.
The Prime Minister : I refer my hon. Friend to the reply that I gave some moments ago.
Mr. Irvine : Does my right hon. Friend agree that regional airports play a crucial role in stimulating growth
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in the areas that they serve? Will she therefore join me in expressing astonishment at the crass, blinkered and short-sighted attitude shown by the Labour-controlled Ipswich borough council, which is intent on closing down Ipswich airport even though no suitable alternative site has yet been found?The Prime Minister : Yes, the Government wish to see the maximum use of airports in the regions, to meet as much local demand as they can attract. Since 1981 we have given borrowing approval for more than £287 million-- [Interruption.]
Mr. Speaker : Order. The Prime Minister.
The Prime Minister : We have given borrowing approval totalling over £287 million for the development of local authority airports and I hope that a new site can be found quickly for the airport to which my hon. Friend referred. I understand that discussions have already taken place between Suffolk county council and the Ministry of Defence-- [Interruption.] Clearly Opposition Members are not in the least bit interested in the new airport for Ipswich-- [Interruption.]
Mr. Speaker : Order. This is taking up a lot of time and the Prime Minister is trying to answer the question.
The Prime Minister : The Opposition are not interested, Mr. Speaker. Discussions have already taken place between Suffolk county council and the Ministry of Defence about the possible use of RAF Wattisham. We are interested in regional airports, but the Opposition are not.
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