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Mrs. Chalker : I shall not give way any more, because, if I do, others will not have an opportunity to speak.
We are among the leaders in spreading the green message to other aid-giving institutions, especially the European Community and the World bank. The Commission is already using 100 copies--
Mr. Clarke : Will the Minister give way?
Madam Deputy Speaker : Order. The Minister has made it quite clear that she will not give way any more.
Mrs. Chalker : The Commission is already using--
Mr. Clarke : On a point of order, Madam Deputy Speaker. Would it be possible for you to draw to the attention of Ministers who refuse to give way the fact that hon. Members sit silently through their speeches, and to remind those Ministers that their speeches mean very little if hon. Members are not present to listen to them?
Madam Deputy Speaker : I hardly think that that is a point of order for the Chair. However, the hon. Gentleman has made his point.
Mrs. Chalker : I recall making that same point about 16 years ago, sitting in exactly the same seat as the hon. Member for Monklands, West (Mr. Clarke).
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I was saying that we are recognised for our environmental appraisal techniques. The Commission is already using more than 100 copies of our manual. The German Government and other Governments are using it as well. We cannot be as bad as the hon. Member for Cynon Valley made out.I want now to consider the extra help that is needed to tackle global environmental problems in developing countries. I told the House in a written answer on 11 June that we plan to allocate additional resources to helping developing countries deal with sources of green house gas emissions.
Developing countries will need help if they are to implement measures agreed under the Montreal protocol. We are ready to provide funds as part of an internationally agreed financial mechanism. Such a mechanism is being discussed at the meeting of the Montreal protocol parties in London at the moment. We are hosting that meeting on behalf of the United Nations Environment Programme. Britain is the third largest contributor to UNEP and we work closely with its excellent executive director, Dr. Tolba. Our contribution will be part of a separate new item in the Government's expenditure plans and it will be separate from our aid budget for developing countries, which itself is planned to grow.
We cannot consider environmental problems with success unless we are prepared to tackle the rapid rise in population growth. Since 1950, world population has doubled. It is now 5.3 billion and it will increase by 1 billion during the 1990s. That is 250,000 more people a day, every day. During the next century, the world population will probably double and could even triple. Some 90 per cent. of the increase is in the developing world.
Our aim is to help Governments to formulate population policies and to implement programmes that include the provision of voluntary family planning information and services. Improving the health and education of women and reducing infant and child mortality are also crucial if smaller families are to be encouraged.
Rapid population growth exacerbates the environ-mental degradation. The linkages between population growth and the environment are complex. However, tackling population growth is an important aspect of our environmental policy. In 1989, the ODA spent more than £17 million on specific population-related activities. That compares with £6.5 million in 1981.
A major part of our assistance is channelled through the multilateral population programmes. We have increased our total contributions to the International Planned Parenthood Federation, the United Nations population fund and the WHO's human reproduction programme from £14.6 million in 1989 to £15.7 million this year. This year ODA has supported bilateral population projects in nine areas of the world. In India, for example, we are funding a £20 million project for the strengthening of primary health care and family welfare services in five districts in Orissa. In Kenya, we are providing more than £4 million to six non-governmental organisations providing population education and broadening the provision of family planning services. We all now identify several countries in Africa and Asia in which our existing activities could be expanded and soon will identify new countries in which assistance may start. Wherever we help,
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it must be in voluntary family planning services. However, we are encouraged by the responses to our approaches to countries that have never before undertaken such programmes.The hon. Member for Cynon Valley spent a long time talking about poverty. She linked poverty, quite understandably, to many of the awful problems facing the third world. She is aware that one of the main objectives of our aid programme is to relieve poverty, which my predecessor, my right hon. Friend the Member for Bath (Mr. Patten), said is the most toxic element in environmental pollution. We do that directly by aiming our aid at those most in need. In Ghana we help the poorest by participating in the programme of action to mitigate the social cost of adjustment. In India we spent almost £200 million between 1980 and 1988 in the key sectors of health, welfare, education, housing and renewable natural resources.
In 1988 our food aid and disaster relief were targeted at those in desperate need and totalled £40 million. That is all helping to relieve poverty. However, we also help to relieve poverty in the long term by promoting growth in developing countries.
The promotion of growth in developing countries seems to help most when we understand and work with the Governments of those countries to identify the best means of helping. In some countries the best way might be to create clean power for the people so that they can begin to be productive. In other countries and other regions we might have to concentrate on relieving the enormous health problems. Elsewhere we might be able to do most to relieve poverty by being thoroughly active in agriculture. I recommend to the hon. Member for Cynon Valley the research document entitled "A Strategy for Research on Renewable Natural Resources". I shall send the hon. Lady a copy although it has been in the Library for some time. That document explains what we are doing and it gives the lie to what the hon. Lady's imputations.
I believe that in all those ways we seek to help to relieve poverty. However, relieving poverty involves more than pushing money or having specific programmes. Countries must undertake economic reform and the countries that do that receive our fullest support, as has been absolutely clear in Africa in recent years.
We provide technical assistance and physical infrastructure. We direct our aid throughout our programmes to the poorest by concentrating on countries with low incomes. That is why in 1988 around 70 per cent. of our aid went to the poorest 50 countries and a further 8.5 per cent. to other low-income countries.
Mr. Jeremy Corbyn (Islington, North) : Although one does not doubt the efficiency of the work that is done by many officials in the Overseas Development Administration on individual projects, does the Minister agree that the greatest contribution that could be made to help the poor countries of sub-Saharan Africa would be a real increase in commodity prices, rather than the 20 per cent. drop over the past 15 years, and ceasing to support the IMF on its imposition of liberal economic models, which are helping to subsidise and prop up the banking systems of north America and western Europe?
Mrs. Chalker : The hon. Gentleman cannot expect to get away with that. One of the things that has been quite clear to me since I came to this job, is the careful attention
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to workable economic policies that the IMF and the World bank give in regard to nations in Africa and elsewhere that need economic reform. We have been the largest contributor to the interest subsidy account, which helps those countries. We help to reschedule official debts through the Paris Club, and we give generous bilateral aid. We cancel overseas aid debts--£1 billion that is owed by 23 countries has being cancelled by this country. Of course, my right hon. Friend the Member for Blaby (Mr. Lawson) laid the foundations for the Toronto terms that have helped many--the Brady plan has helped many others--and we shall go on helping those countries.It is simply not right to pour more of British taxpayers' money into countries that will not learn the lesson that socialism does not work. Countries in eastern Europe have learnt and have come to us for help with their new institutional set-up. They have been showing the way. Countries that have bothered to find out how things work better are benefiting greatly, as can be seen in Ghana and in many other countries.
Deforestation is perhaps the gravest environmental threat facing the developing world. The latest reports suggest that 17 million hectares or more of tropical forest are currently being lost each year. That is one and a half times the size of England, and twice the rate of the late 1970s. We need forests to help maintain soil fertility, prevent erosion and protect watershed systems. Globally, our forests store vast quantities of carbon and house 90 per cent. of the planet's plant and animal species.
Tropical forests are concentrated in developing countries, and those countries will decide their fate. It is not for us to question the sovereign rights of developing countries to use their natural resources, but we can and we will help them to manage forests sustainably, for the benefit of the countries that house them and for the benefit of the wider community.
Britain has a record of which we can be proud. In 1988 my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister said that we would do more under the aid programme to promote the wise and sustainable use of forest resources. Then we were financing 80 forestry projects at a cost of £45 million. Now we have almost 150 projects costing more than £60 million. My right hon. Friend the Prime Minister announced last November that we would aim to commit a further £100 million over the next three years. We already have 60 projects in preparation. Those and more will be financed from the £100 million.
The hon. Lady likes to have a great deal of fun with the tropical forestry action plan. We all know that forestry is an international problem and challenge. That means that the solutions require a collaborative international effort. Whatever the hon. Lady may think, one country working alone would be simply no good. The main international mechanism for co- ordinating assistance to developing countries is the tropical forestry action plan. The TFAP has been heavily criticised, often with good reason. Whatever the hon. Lady may say, I called for its reform at the United Nations Food and Agriculture Organisation general conference last November, and it was good that, shortly after, an independent review was set up. That review has just reported. The report contains several important conclusions and recommendations that we are studying carefully. The TFAP should not support the extension of logging without rigorous environmental
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safeguards, and that means making forests managed and sustainable for the future. We welcome that conclusion--it has always been our view that that should be done.We have funded the attendance of Papua New Guinea and other countries at the TFAP. We have made sure that countries that wanted to respond had information. The PNG Government have now announced a moratorium on logging. In the Cameroon, under the TFAP, we funded an expert on medicinal plants. Without British involvement, there would be much more to complain about. The proposals for new guidelines from the TFAP and the suggestion that the NGOs should be consulted in drawing them up are very good. The review is a good basis for necessary reform, and that is why we are now involved in a detailed discussion of how to take forward its recommendations in preparation for the Food and Agriculture organisation committee on forestry in Rome in September. A copy of the review is in the Library. The second critical forestry problem is the need to safeguard the planet's biological diversity. We do not know to within a factor of 10 how many plants and animal species our planet holds. What we do know is that they are disappearing at an alarming rate. Perhaps a third of the total could be lost in the next three or four decades. In May I established a special action programme to expand ODA's work on conserving biological diversity. First, we need better information on the priorities for conservation. Britain's contribution of £0.25 million to the major study by the world conservation monitoring centre in Cambridge is to help prepare a global biodiversity status report. Secondly, we need to identify well- designed projects for funding. The Oxford Forestry Institute is preparing for us a strategy on ODA's role in conserving the biodiversity of forests. That will include a series of project outlines. We are commissioning similar studies on the marine environment, which is a much neglected but very important store of biological diversity, and on the so-called wildlands, such as the savannah of Africa, which often house wild relatives of food crops. In all those matters we are out to make progress on the basis of science. Nowhere could that be more true than in the global warming issues that now concern us so drastically. We know that developing countries could suffer worst from the effects of global warming. In Africa, for example, climate change is likely to have a significant negative effect on agricultural production. Millions may be forced to move to survive in areas in which land is already scarce. Africa has probably contributed least to the problem of climate change. It therefore understandably looks to the international community to take the lead--but Africa, too, will need to play its part.
We are helping developing countries get to grips with the issue of climate change. That is why we are contributing to help developing countries join in the work of the intergovernmental panel on climate change.
We are also developing an energy efficiency initiative. In May this year I announced an offer of £50 million towards energy efficiency projects in India. It is right that we get the very best use of energy production there. Although I share some doubts about Rihand, I have already taken steps to ensure that energy in the third world is produced efficiently and as cleanly as possible and without degradation. We cannot change the past, but we
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can help to increase the efficiency of power stations and prevent devastation causing more disruption in those countries. That is why, in Pakistan, we are fitting waste heat recovery boilers for gas turbine stations, and doing similar things in Bangladesh. In Pakistan, we have already managed to achieve a recovery of heat of 137 per cent. of the original target. Therefore, we are putting our scientific knowledge to the best use for people who need to use power.We are including in our work many other matters that I shall set out in a major speech in a few months. We have involved ourselves in the World bank energy sector. It now has a small commission to consider priorities. Our ODA permanent secretary is a member of that commission. We also have an assistance programme to deal with environmental concerns. It does not stop at energy efficiency ; it also includes conservation. It will loom large in the commission's work. British expertise, which is well respected worldwide, is contributing to the full in all international environmental forums. The hon. Member for Cynon Valley also referred to water. I agree that water and sanitation are both critical. Ten years ago only 40 per cent. of the world's population had access to a safe water supply, and only 25 per cent. had access to sanitation. That is why, under the aegis of the international drinking water supply and sanitation decade, we made a concerted effort. A safe water supply has been provided to an estimated 700 million new users during the decade. During the same period, sanitation facilities have been provided to 250 million people.
With the continuous global population increase, there is a pressing need to accelerate the impetus worldwide during the 1990s. That is why we are funding numerous water and sanitation projects in the developing countries. That is why, in 1988 alone, we had 86 on-going projects, at an overall cost to the aid programme of £184 million. We have made steps to meet the environmental challenges, but we fully accept that much remains to be done. We shall say more about our plans in the environment White Paper later in the year. Britain's aid programme is as green as any that I know of in Europe, but I intend to keep it that way. I intend to build on the firm base that my right hon. Friend the Member for Bath built before me. There is no shortage of commitment in this Government to helping to solve the environmental problems of developing countries.
This Government will always use taxpayers' money for development aid soundly and effectively. It takes a Government with credibility to galvanise the efforts of the international community. I know from the reactions that I get overseas that Britain's contribution--and our Prime Minister's contribution--is recognised as crucial and effective, be it our efforts through the United Nations, through the London conferences on the ozone layer, or our pioneering tropical forestry initiative.
Therefore, I utterly reject the Opposition's carping and sort-sighted motion. I am certain that my right hon. and hon. Friends will support my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister's amendment in the lobby tonight.
Several Hon. Members rose--
Madam Deputy Speaker : Before we proceed, I hope that hon. Members will bear in mind what I said earlier and respond to my appeal for short speeches. We have little more than an hour before the winding-up speeches.
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8.32 pmMr. Tony Worthington (Clydebank and Milngavie) : I am deeply grateful for being called, Madam Deputy Speaker. I wish to respond to only one aspect of the environmental issue, but I believe that it towers above the rest. I refer to population growth. The sheer importance of this issue cannot be overestimated. If we do not control population growth, all the other environmental problems will simply mount up. There will be environmental degradation. Although most hon. Members know the statistics, I believe that they need repeating. It took us 100,000 years to reach a world population of 1 billion people ; it took another 100 years to reach a population of 2 billion people ; it took another 30 years to reach a population of 3 billion people ; and now we are adding 1 billion to the world population every 10 years. That means that the present population of 5 billion will be 6 billion by the end of the century.
We must reach a replacement rate level of population as quickly as possible. If we do not do so urgently, the increase in population will be staggering. If we reach replacement level by 2015, the world's population will be 8 billion. There is no chance of our reaching that replacement level by 2015. If we take a mere 40 extra years and reach replacement level population by 2055, the world's population will be 13 billion people. The difference between those two populations is the existing population of the world.
We must tackle this problem aggressively. I defy anybody who has visited those parts of the world that have high rates of population growth to be unmoved by that experience. Hon. Members of all parties have visited Nepal and have seen that country being literally eaten by its population, as its people scramble for higher and higher and ever more inaccessible terraces on which to live. We have seen the forestry and the hillsides disappearing, yet only 15 per cent. of that land can be lived on. We have seen the most incredible problems unfolding before our eyes.
We must realise that today in India 70,000 babies have been born. The population of India has doubled since independence. Although the problem is enormous, it can be overcome. I was disturbed to hear the Minister refer to ensuring that such countries have an absorptive quality that enables them to accept more assistance. I remind her that there are 600,000 villages in India and that only 3,000 of them have a family planning service. I am sure that one or two thousand more villages have an absorptive quality that could enable them to take more assistance.
It is possible to be very critical of the Indian Government's lack of courage in not providing the lead on family planning, but it is also possible to be critical of ourselves, and especially of the Americans. One of the most disturbing things in recent years is that, as a result of the pressures exerted by the so-called pro-life lobby in the United States, since 1985 the United States Government have made no contribution to any family planning funds.
It is ironic that people who call themselves "pro-life" should, by their withdrawal of funds and their unwillingness to give aid to family planning services, have caused so much abortion. There is no doubt that it is the absence of good family planning that has led to most of the abortions that take place. It is ironic that people who call themselves "pro-life" should have helped make life so nasty, brutish and short for so many of the children who
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are born. We should make it clear that we can no longer tolerate that unwillingness to tackle the issue of family planning. We must grasp the great importance of family planning and ensure that more of our aid is directed to that end. It was with some pleasure, therefore, that I heard the Minister of State say that our aid had been gradually steered in that direction. We must accept that such aid will always be steered towards voluntary family planning, because any other approach is simply counter-productive. However, we must accept that that aid must be long-term, because such family planning activities involve the most sensitive and delicate development work. Nevertheless, it is obvious that such work can be carried out. Those of us who have been there have seen how such work has yielded fruit in the back streets of Delhi. We have also seen the clean water supplies there. We are also aware of the work that has successfully controlled parasites in other parts of India. That work is both long-term and fulfilling.I conclude by emphasising another area. We must be aggressive in ensuring that our aid helps the development of women in the developing world. That is the key to success. Literate women have control over their lives. I defy any hon. Member to name any country where literacy for women has led to their choosing to have large families. They do not choose to have large families when careers other than child bearing are available to them.
The Minister will be supported by many hon. Members if she fights for more generous aid to be given to population control. Without population control, there will be no future for our children and those born elsewhere. The ozone layer and deforestation fade into insignificance, compared with the importance of controlling population growth.
8.40 pm
Mr. Jacques Arnold (Gravesham) : I welcome the opportunity to discuss this most important subject, development aid and the environment, but how unfortunate it is that it has to be discussed on a party political bashing basis. The British aid programme of over £1.6 billion is no small beer. It is 17 per cent. up on last year and is heading for £1.75 billion in 1992. The debate should be about targeting and the value to be achieved from these vast resources. Not a word, however, is said about that matter in the Labour motion. Even according to their own funding criteria, the Opposition disappoint. In the last two years of the last Labour Government, they chopped successive £50 million chunks off the aid budget--deep, in real terms, in the values of those days. Frank Judd, the Opposition's Front Bench spokesman on aid at that time, summed it up perfectly when he said that the cuts would have grave implications and that the Labour Government did not wish to minimise them. Did the Labour Government put up a fight? Joel Barnett, who was Chief Secretary to the Treasury in the Labour Government, noted that there was little argument within the Labour Cabinet when IMF strictures required those cuts. He admitted later in his book :
"on overseas aid there was little argument this time, and £50 million was scored for each year."
I shall confine my comments to the environmental implications of the destruction of the rain forests. I welcome the growing interest worldwide and in Britain, but also in the countries of the Amazon basin, in their
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responsibilities for their great heritage. Brazil, which contains by far the largest extent of the Amazonian rain forest, has made major progress of late.Under the inspired leadership of the newly elected president, Fernando Collor de Mello, the Brazilian Government have taken some important steps. First, they have scrapped the fiscal incentives that led directly to the clearance of forests for ecologically disastrous grazing, which in turn led to soil erosion. Secondly, the pursuit of illegal gold prospecting--which does nothing for the economy of Brazil, as most of the gold is smuggled out of the country--brings misery to thousands of garimpeiros, the peasant miners, and has led to the virtual extinction of the Indian tribes in the area, notably the Yanomami. Thirdly, the Brazilians have scrapped the infamous B364 road to Peru for timber export, which the Japanese would have used to strip the forests of hardwood.
Fourthly--perhaps the most inspired of all the steps taken in Brazil-- Professor Jose Lutzenberger has been appointed the President's Secretary for the Environment. Professor Lutzenberger has long been a campaigner against the environmental destruction tolerated by the previous military regimes in Brazil. He was perhaps the most radical eco-critic in the country. He has a clear understanding of the ecological dangers facing the globe and an appreciation of the possibilities in Brazil. He has the ear of the president. He could not have been appointed at a better time. There is a new, dynamic and environmentally sensitive president in Brazil, with the world awake to the ecological risks and ready to help. If I may be so bold, Britain is at the forefront of the international support that is now forthcoming.
A year ago my right hon. Friend the Member for Bath (Mr. Patten), when Minister for Overseas Development, concluded his now famous memorandum of understanding with Brazil. Up to then, foreign powers had lectured Brazil on the environment, thus inflaming nationalist feelings. What my right hon. Friend achieved was to offer partnership and a lead to Brazil's pride in its rain forests. His technical co-operation programme was to cover five areas : first, the urban environment, in particular sewage and water treatment ; secondly, the sustainable management of the Amazon rain forest, where he hoped that we would be involved in establishing a new biological reserve in the Xingu river area ; thirdly, collaborative research on the relationship between the forests and climate, involving the Institute of Hydrology ; fourthly, research into the great potential of the genetic resources of the Amazon--and he hoped to begin soon a research project into aromatic plants, undertaken by the Goeldi museum in Belem ; and, fifthly, training in both the United Kingdom and Brazil in matters related to those areas.
I am glad that approval has now been given for some of the projects, notably that of the Institute of Hydrology and its climate research projects in the states of Amazonas, Para and either in Rondonia or Acre in Brazil and for a study of the impact of deforestation on the climate. I hope that progress will be made on a number of other projects that have already been identified--notably that of the Tapajos forest management project in Para state to establish sustained forest management, production and a harvesting system ; the forest research project with INPA in Brazil that would lead to research into the distribution
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and dynamics of the biomass and minerals in tropical forests ; the Caxiuana biological reserve in Para state, which would bring about the establishment of a biological reserve there and the promotion of sustainable management of the forest ; and a study of the ecology, natural regeneration and flora of the flooded forests near Belem on the Amazon. I could refer to other projects, such as the aromatic plant development project near Belem that carries out research and trials of plants species with potential for commercial development. In the time available, I cannot refer to the many other projects. We should not forget that there are large tracts of Amazonia in Colombia, Venezuela and Peru. Earlier this year, I had the opportunity to see the Colombian Amazon region. The Government of President Barco of Colombia have shown the imagination to carry out a systematic programme of legal recognition of land rights for all the indigenous people of the Colombian Amazon. More than 12 million hectares have been safeguarded. It is considered the collective property of the Indians and it is inalienable. They are now working on a further 6 million hectares, in addition to the 5 million already included in the recently created national parks in the Amazon region. The next stage for Colombia will clearly be for projects into the sustainable use of the rain forest. I hope that we can extend our various projects to assist ColombiaBefore I came into the Chamber I looked into the forestry projects of the Overseas Development Administration. They are under way in no fewer than nine Latin American countries. My right hon. Friend the Minister for Overseas Development has much to be proud of, given our constructive aid in this sphere. All power to her elbow. Let us keep up the good work.
8.48 pm
Mr. Malcolm Bruce (Gordon) : I intend to comment on some of the points made by the Minister. Ministers say that the United Kingdom helps 60 per cent. of the poorest countries in the world. The sad fact is that most of them are former British colonies. The fact that they are former British colonies and need so much aid is an indictment of the Government's policy. The Minister was right to emphasise that we should pay attention to the quality, not just to the quantity, of aid. I accept that certain Overseas Development Administration projects are good and set an example to the rest of the world.
It is nevertheless true that much of our aid programme is still viewed as a trade opportunity to be plundered by large companies. I am not the only exponent of that view. It is worth reading a sentence from the Conservative manifesto for the last election :
"Our Aid and Trade Provision' funds have helped win good development contracts for British firms worth over £2 billion since 1979."
That is not what aid should be about, but I regret that that is what is has become in many cases.
The third point is that the Minister said that she had made £50 million available for energy efficiency projects, mainly in India, and then elaborated on how much she was committed to the idea of achieving greater energy efficiency in India. It is an extraordinary proposition that we should give priority to energy efficiency in countries that inherently use little energy, rather than concentrating within the developed world and reducing our excessive energy consumption. I accept that that is not the Minister's responsibility, but it is the Government's, and
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the figures that she quoted contrast pretty sharply with the miserable investment in energy efficiency that has been sanctioned by the Department of Energy for our energy efficiency at home. I should like to say, by way of a commercial--I have no interest to declare other than a local connection of pride--that before I came to this debate I was at a preview showing of a documentary for Channel 4 produced by Grampian television on the energy alternative. It is a programme of three one-hour documentaries that is a blueprint for changing the way that the world works. I noted with interest that the role of women, which has been mentioned by a number of speakers, has been specifically acknowledged within the third world, and the changes that have been taking place are focused upon without necessarily commenting that that is the definitive answer. It was inevitable that the Minister would home in on specific worthy projects that the Government are sponsoring, and I am sure that other Conservative Members will also do so. However, the Minister did not satisfactorily explain to the House how and why Britain has dropped from second to sixth among the top seven industrial nations in the provision of overseas aid. The Government inherited a GNP contribution of 0.52 per cent., which they have reduced to 0.31 per cent. The Thatcher Government claim that they have achieved an economic miracle. Why have we not shared that economic miracle with the poorer peoples of the world? It really is not good enough for the Minister not to respond to that fact. The other factor that must be addressed is the way in which aid projects are managed, not just by the British Government--or, perhaps worse still, by the American Government--but by the World bank and international agencies. There is no doubt that the criteria being applied specifically by the World bank do not often meet the real needs and the real structure of the countries that are supposed to be developing.One problem is that the World bank seems to want assurances of stability within the Governments through which it is seeking to provide aid. The trouble is that stability tends to mean rather nasty, often right-wing, dictatorships that misuse the money to fatten their friends and to give contracts to big businesses. That does not benefit the poor people and does not reach the small businesses that might actually gain from the channelling of that aid. I wish that the British Government had done more to try to change those criteria. The consequence of that is that banks tend to appoint consultants who determine who gets the contracts and how they are bid. It is far too much trouble to allow small companies, which have to be vetted and investigated, to get a cut of the business. Too often, that cut goes elsewhere and leaves the people of the country feeling alienated. Often, they are actually disrupted or even moved from their land to accommodate projects proposed by big business interests that are hostile to the interests of the people living in that country--yet it is all done in the name of overseas aid for poor communities.
It is interesting that, within Europe, Sweden and Holland have taken a high profile in trying to alter the character of the regimes to which they will give aid, singling out those to which other countries often refuse to give aid. They apply criteria that seek out and encourage progressive Government policies within countries to which they are giving aid.
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I was recently asked to review a book commissioned by Friends of the Earth called "Exploited Earth," by Teresa Hayter. She says something worthy of report, especially in relation to tropical rain forests :"If the Governments of the major western powers and their agencies genuinely wanted to save forests in the third world, the best thing they could do would be to stop discriminating in favour of repressive and inegalitarian Governments and support, or at least refrain from attacking, third world Governments with progressive policies." That is something we should actively encourage. We should be seeking to change the character. We should not conform to capitalist models, but to ones that are genuinely socially responsive and can reach down to the people who most need the aid.
We are all in grave danger of inadvertently patronising third-world countries when we talk about the problems of aid. I am conscious of it myself. I do not feel that it is necessarily my job to tell third-world countries what they should do, although it is legitimate to tell them what they should not do in circumstances where there is clear exploitation.
For example, the Brazilians have stated quite clearly that they do not understand why the Brazilian rain forest should be treated as a lung for the planet, because it is needed as a resource for their teeming population. The problem is how one ensures that that population can secure development in a way that nevertheless meets the wider needs of the planet and the long-term interests of the Brazilian community, which is too pressured by short-term needs and concerns.
With all respect to the hon. Member for Clydebank and Milngavie (Mr. Worthington)--and I recognise his commitment--the problem of population control falls into that difficulty. We can look at the third world and say that the population is growing too fast, the pressures are too great, and that if we do not do something about it, the planet will not survive. That is all true, but it is also a fact that, for most third-world countries, large families are a substitute for the lack of a welfare state. They are a means of security, an economic advantage and a welfare support.
Until that is changed the fundamental problem will not be dealt with and there is a clear correlation that constructive economic development and improved economic well-being actually reduce the pressure of large families. I acknowledge the fact that the hon. Member for Clydebank and Milngavie referred to that.
The other problem, which we will have to address across the whole of the developed world and right across the political boundaries is how we will deal with the problem of the greenhouse effect. It causes me some concern that the British Government, together with the American Government and others, have failed to achieve, or get anywhere near achieving, a figure of 0.7 per cent. of gross national product overseas aid budget. How on earth will they persuade people in the developed world to make the necessary sacrifices to reduce carbon dioxide and other greenhouse gas emissions so that the third world can achieve even a fraction of the growth to which it aspires? A much bigger chunk than 0.7 per cent. of GNP must be earmarked. It has been suggested that an international world programme could be delivered--perhaps that is idealistic. It could determine the total greenhouse gas emissions that the world is currently producing and aim to freeze those emissions, and subsequently reduce them. It would then allow bids for the allocation of that share of greenhouse
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gases--in extremis on a population basis. The consequences of that would be a major cut in the greenhouse emissions of the developed society to allow the third world to achieve the growth to which it aspires.I note that the Minister is grimacing at the severity of what is required. We know that that could not be done overnight--it may take a generation. However, the third world will not stand being lectured about how it cannot aspire to the glories and pleasures of the western developed world just because we have already got there first and are not prepared to cut it in. Ultimately the third world will not put up with that. We must be prepared to make some fairly major sacrifices collectively, across party lines and national boundaries, in the west if we are to allow the underdeveloped countries to alleviate some of their poverty and to fulfil some of their aspirations.
The hon. Member for Gravesham (Mr. Arnold) is right to say that this issue should not be made too party political as that would render it specious. The scale of the problem we face is such that if we spend too much time scoring party-political points off each other we shall not address the wider issues of how we reach solutions to the urgent problems.
The nature of politicians and of this place is such that we cannot resist scoring party political points. It is the duty of Oppositions to oppose and of Governments to extol the virtues of what they have achieved. We must acknowledge, however, that if we are to make a contribution to solving the problem and if we are serious about it, we must seek out cross-party consensus. We must adopt long-term policies that will be pursued by Governments of whatever political persuasion and by many Governments at a time. We must do that soon ; otherwise, the problems will become academic as it will be far too late.
I am a natural optimist--in my party, the one thing one learns is to be one --and I believe that there is a great deal that we can achieve if we put our minds to it. Obviously we can make technical contributions, but we must be prepared to acknowledge that attitudes must change and that societies within the developed countries must acknowledge the problems of the developing world and its right to a share of the benefits of the globe. We must recognise that, if we do not adopt a concerted environmental policy, we shall be destroyed by the third world's attempts to gain what it regards as its rightful share of the world's benefits.
The problem is sometimes described on such a global scale that we cannot relate to it ; there are too many issues with which to deal at once. I was therefore encouraged to find that that dry American verser, Ogden Nash, had an appropriate little verse that puts things in perspective while saying the right thing :
"I think that I shall never see
A billboard lovely as a tree,
Perhaps, unless the billboards fall,
I'll never see a tree at all".
That sums up the fact that we cannot make a positive contribution to reducing environmental pressures if we determine our approach entirely by commercial factors. We must accept that the west must make some substantial sacrifices if the people of the third world are to have a real chance of a share in the resources of the planet.
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9.2 pmMr. Rupert Allason (Torbay) : In view of the time available, I shall keep my remarks brief.
First, I should declare an interest as I am vice-president of Operation Raleigh on a non-remunerative basis. In that capacity, I thank my right hon. Friend for all the support that she has given to Operation Raleigh and to Voluntary Service Overseas. I know that in the past she has given great assistance to environmentally friendly projects and schemes run by Operation Raleigh all over the world, and that is much appreciated.
Last night in the debate on the police the Opposition made a considerable financial commitment, and earlier this evening in the transport debate they made a similar one. In this debate, the Opposition reaffirmed their commitment to achieve a target contribution to overseas aid of 0.7 per cent. of GNP within five years. When the hon. Member for Cynon Valley (Mrs. Clwyd) gave us a tour d'horizon of all the environmental problems of the world, I thought that she also made a commitment to subsidise the reduction in or removal of CFCs in the People's Republic of China.
I could be wrong, but I believe that the Labour party will have its work cut out if it should ever be elected to Government. That point should be made because those who listen to or read about this debate should appreciate that people must be judged on their performance. The October 1974 Labour party manifesto made the commitment that 0.7 per cent. of GNP would be given in overseas aid, but history proves that that figure was never achieved.
I congratulate the Government on the cancellation of debt, particularly in Africa, and while I urge them to pursue that line, I have some concerns about Government aid. The hon. Member for Gordon (Mr. Bruce) spoke of propping up corrupt regimes and the need to monitor the way in which money is spent. I am concerned about some of the £13 million in aid that has gone to Ethiopia. I should like to know how much of it has gone directly to the people and how much has been filched to perpetuate a continuing civil war.
The same can be said of the £8.5 million recently given in emergency aid to Mozambique. I am worried about how much of that, plus 10,000 tonnes of food aid, has gone to the army and how much has gone to people in desperate need. Perpetuating corrupt regimes should not be the purpose of our overseas aid, and we now have an opportunity to pass on some of our know-how in that respect. In my constituency, the South Devon technical college has offered aid to eastern Europe. I congratulate the Government on their plans to aid the eastern European countries which are, frankly, environmental disasters. Aid programmes have already been announced for Poland, Hungary and Czechoslovakia. I have written to my right hon. Friend pointing out that South Devon technical college has played a great role in the past in supplying language skills to south-east Asia. The college is anxious to participate in any aid programme to eastern Europe. The amount of money being sought by eastern Europe is astronomical. I heard Eduard Shevardnadze talking on the radio on Monday about £8.5 billion being needed by the Soviet Union. If such aid is given, it should have major strings attached.
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I appreciate that it is all to easy to be patronising about aid. Imposing western developed nation standards on intermediate, dirty, industrialised third-world countries has inherent dangers, particularly when there are many problems that we have not tackled. I draw attention particularly to nuclear submarines in this country which are mothballed and about which, apparently, nothing can be done. It seems that no decision has been made about whether to tow them out into the Atlantic--that was the original intention--or to decommission them in some other way. That is a major problem of our own making and, so far as I am aware, there is no solution to it. The Secretary of State for the Environment was in his place earlier in the debate. I hope that he or a Minister from that Department will have an opportunity to explain to the House the level of CFC reduction that we propose to reach by the year 2000 and why that level will be only about 50 per cent. of what it should be. Reference has been made in the debate to numerous projects. I have time to refer to just three. The first is land degradation. I understand that in sub-Saharan Africa the husbandry of goats has played a major part in removing the soil. I hope that in future great thought will be given to dealing with that problem.The second point--sea levels--was mentioned by the hon. Member for Cynon Valley. I urge her to put pressure on the Government to avoid grandiose schemes of the kind that in the past were regarded as prestige projects. When we consider projects such as the Aswan dam 20 or 30 years later, we realise that such grandiose schemes have been catastrophically counter- productive.
While many people will welcome the thermal power efficiency programmes which have been introduced and are being sponsored by the British Government, many constituents are horrified to hear of the vast sums being spent by the Pakistani Government on sabre-rattling exercises, mobilising troops and tanks along the Indian frontier. That is truly horrific.
I acknowledge that the Government have been in the forefront of many important issues in recent years and months--one of which affected my constituency. A tanker-load of toxic waste from west Africa was heading towards the United Kingdom and my constituency, causing great concern. I recognise that the European Community has introduced a system of certificates for toxic waste to ensure that it does not go to third-world countries.
There has been little time to cover all the issues in this important debate, but I urge the House to support the amendment. 9.11 pm
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