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Cook, Frank (Stockton N)Corbyn, Jeremy
Godman, Dr Norman A.
Jones, Martyn (Clwyd S W)
Skinner, Dennis
Tellers for the Noes :
Mr. Harry Barnes and
Mr. Ken Livingstone.
Whereupon Mr. Deputy Speaker-- declared that the Question was not decided in the affirmative, because it was not supported by the majority prescribed by Standing Order No. 36 (Majority for Closure).
Mr. Livingstone : In one sense, I am rather glad that the hon. Member for Streatham called the Division. The result of it puts into perspective the remarks of the Minister of State, Home Office. If the hon. and learned Gentleman bothers to return to the Chamber, he may care to explain why proposed legislation that he says is vital does not attract the support of enough Conservative Members even to force a closure. That puts the reality into perspective.
Sir William Shelton : Will the hon. Gentleman understand that I did not contact any of my colleagues, who would have come to the House gladly? I was unaware until late last night that the Consumer Guarantees Bill would not be on the Order Paper. Will the hon. Gentleman understand also my strength of feeling at his action in killing the Bill, which is desperately needed by many people? If he attracts the label of the friend of the prostitute and the kerb crawler, and the hon. Member who helped to talk out the Protection of Badger Setts Bill, it will be what he deserves.
Mr. Livingstone : I thank the hon. Gentleman for revealing the motives behind the Government's protestations.
Sir Bernard Braine (Castle Point) : What are the hon. Gentleman's motives?
Mr. Livingstone : Had the Father of the House been in his place earlier, he would have heard me explain that we could immediately tackle the problem of kerb crawling. The Government have the powers that they need under the Public Order Act 1986. Any man approaching a woman and making an offensive or indecent suggestion can be arrested under that legislation. I am sure that the Father of the House will want to know about my proposal and add his weight to it. I said to the Minister of State, Home Office, "Why do you not immediately issue a circular to every chief constable and to the Commissioner of Police of the Metropolis reminding them of the 1986 legislation and urging them to get their officers out on the streets to tackle the problem immediately?" The Government have the necessary powers, but they do not have the political will to act. They do not have the commitment to defend women.
What we have seen is a sham and a play for votes. The contribution of the hon. Member for Streatham suggests that more is going on to produce headlines than to tackle the problem of women being harassed. That is exactly what I would expect from a Government whose supporters are blocking the Bill to make rape in marriage illegal. I am sure that the Father of the House supports that Bill. Let him join me in urging those hon. Members who have been jumping up and down protesting their support for the Sexual Offences Bill to campaign to get the Public Order Act 1986 used immediately, as it can be. The Government could issue an instruction tonight to police forces throughout the country. They could ensure that
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time was found to consider the proposed legislation that would make rape in marriage illegal. We require action from the Executive, not a whole load of hot air, with hon. Members playing to the gallery and trying to stir up the Daily Mail, Daily Express, The Sun and the other elements of the gutter press that have done nothing in the past decade to put pressure on the Government genuinely to defend the rights of women or genuinely to protect women on our streets and in our homes. Everything that the Government have done has undermined the position of women. The Government are playing politics with this issue.We should not pass legislation which is, in effect, a new sus law, and which allows the police powers that would not be acceptable in any other modern western democracy with a written constitution or a Bill of Rights. If the Government wish to pursue that line, let them have the courage to find the time in their legislative programme for next Session, and do something about it--
It being half past Two o'clock, the debate stood adjourned.
Mr. Deputy Speaker : Debate to be resumed what day? No day named.
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Private Members' Bills
RADIOACTIVE MATERIAL (ROAD TRANSPORT) BILL
Order read for consideration (as amended in the Standing Committee).
Mr. Deputy Speaker (Sir Paul Dean) : Debate to be resumed what day?
Mr. Michael Brown (Brigg and Cleethorpes) : On behalf of the hon. Member in charge of the Bill, Monday next.
Consideration deferred till Monday 9 July.
PROTECTION OF BADGER SETTS BILL
Order read for consideration (as amended in the Standing Committee).
Consideration deferred till Friday 13 July.
Mr. Jeremy Corbyn (Islington, North) : On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker. When my hon. Friend the Member for Newham, North-West (Mr. Banks) moved that his Bill be now read a Second Time, I honestly did not hear any hon. Member say "Object"--[ Hon. Members-- : "We did."] If you heard an objection, Mr. Deputy Speaker, could you tell us from whom it came?
Mr. Deputy Speaker : Order. We have been round that course on many previous Fridays. As this is the last effective Friday for private Members' Bills, perhaps it would be as well if I were to remind the House that this is a well-established procedure. I clearly heard "Object", which means that the Bill--
Mr. Tony Banks (Newham, North-West) rose --
Sir Bernard Braine (Castle Point) rose --
Mr. Robert G. Hughes (Harrow, West) rose --
Mr. Deputy Speaker : Order. I have not finished. I also remind the House that the Select Committee on Procedure has considered this procedure fairly recently and has advised against any change to it. The Committee, of course, gave its reasons for so doing.
It might also be as well if I remind the House that the procedure of objection is not available only at 2.30 pm on a Friday ; it is used frequently on main sitting days at 2.30 pm to stop private Bills. It can equally be used to stop Government motions at various times. If an hon. Member shouts "Object" to any of those categories of Bill, that does not necessarily mean that he objects to the Bill as such. He may merely be objecting to the Bill proceeding without debate or scrutiny. I hope that that helps to clarify the position for the House.
Sir Bernard Braine : Further to that point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker. I am sure that the House is grateful to you for the explanation that you have just given of the present position. You did not call me when I sought to rise a little earlier--I should have shouted that I wanted to make a point of order. Great indignation was felt by my hon. Friends about the way in which the hon. Member for Brent, East (Mr. Livingstone) sabotaged a Bill--and subsequently glorified in that fact--which is of great social importance and of great importance in terms of law and
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order in many parts of the country. Happily, that is not the case in my constituency, but there is a major problem in the constituency of my hon. Friend the Member for Streatham (Sir W. Shelton) which he was seeking to alleviate, with the support of all of us.I do not know whether the Select Committee on Procedure can be persuaded to reconsider that matter, but there is something badly wrong with our procedures when a Bill that is desired by many people, by the forces of law and order, and especially by women is sabotaged. The hon. Member for Brent, East gave us a lecture, but he was not even well informed. I shall not go into the details now because this is a point of order, but there must be a strong case for the Select Committee on Procedure being asked to reconsider that matter. Parliament is a living and continuing thing. It may take a view one day, but if abuse continues to occur, I believe that the Select Committee should be asked to reconsider.
Mr. Deputy Speaker : I fully understand what the Father of the House, the right hon. Member for Castle Point (Sir B. Braine), said, but what occurred today was in order. If, however, the right hon. Gentleman feels that the matter should be referred to the Procedure Committee, who better to do that than he?
Mr. Tony Banks : On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker. May I say through you, Sir, to the Father of the House, for whom I have infinite respect, that I believe, as a member of the Procedure Committee, that he has made a good point? However, I must point out to him that there was a difference between the way that my hon. Friend the Member for Brent, East (Mr. Livingstone) dealt with the Sexual Offences Bill and the method used by those who objected to my Protection of Badger Setts Bill. My hon. Friend objected openly to the Sexual Offences Bill. He will have to take whatever public criticism comes his way and he will, no doubt, endure it in his customary fashion.
Unlike my hon. Friend the Member for Islington, North (Mr. Corbyn), I clearly heard the objections to my Protection of Badger Setts Bill from the hon. Members for Romsey and Waterside (Mr. Colvin) and for Devizes (Sir C. Morrison). The difference between them and my hon. Friend the Member for Brent, East is that they want to wear the cloak of anonymity. Every hon. Member must in the end be accountable for his or her actions. I respect the views of any hon. Members who wish to use the procedures of the House to kill off a Bill if they believe that that is in the best interests of their constituents, or of whatever other interests they serve. However, they ought not then to be able to claim anonymity.
I was not here at 9.30 when a number of points of order were raised because last week I named the hon. Member for Devizes who objected to my Bill. I understand that he has received a number of threats. I utterly deplore them. Anyone who issues threats ought to realise that, far from the hon. Member for Devizes being criticised by the public, as he ought to be, he could gain their sympathy. I hope that anyone who is considering such foolhardy actions will bear that in mind. The Bill will return to this place, when
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the hon. Members for Romsey and Waterside and for Devizes will undoubtedly endure public criticism for having killed off the Protection of Badger Setts Bill.Mr. Deputy Speaker : Order. The matter has been well ventilated on both sides of the House. We must now get on.
GAMING (AMENDMENT) BILL [Lords]
Considered in Committee.
[ Sir Paul Dean-- in the Chair ] Clause 1 ordered to stand part of the Bill.
Clause 2
Short title, commencement and extent
Amendment made : No. 1, in page 2, line 4, leave out subsection (7). [Special Entry.]--[Mr. Gale.]
Clause 2, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill. Schedule agreed to.
Bill reported, with an amendment ; as amended considered ; read the Third time, and passed, with an amendment.
REFORM OF THE HOUSE OF LORDS BILL
Order for Second Reading read.--[Queen's consent, on behalf of the Crown, signified.]
Second Reading deferred till Friday 20 July.
HUMAN RIGHTS BILL
Order for Second Reading read.
Second Reading deferred till Friday 20 July.
MISUSE OF DRUGS BILL
Order for Second Reading read.
Second Reading deferred till Friday 20 July.
WRITTEN CONSTITUTION BILL
Order for Second Reading read.--[Queen's consent, on behalf of the Crown, signified.]
Second Reading deferred till Friday 20 July.
LONDON GOVERNMENT BILL
Order for Second Reading read.
Second Reading deferred till Friday 13 July.
ELIMINATION OF POVERTY IN RETIREMENT BILL
Order for Second Reading read.
Second Reading deferred till Friday 13 July.
Mr. Corbyn : On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker.
Mr. Deputy Speaker : I shall take it when I have dealt with the remaining orders.
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FUEL AND ENERGY PROVISION BILL
Order for Second Reading read.
Second Reading deferred till Friday 20 July.
POLL TAX (ABOLITION) BILL
Order for Second Reading read.
Second Reading deferred till Friday 20 July.
LOCAL AUTHORITY PLAYING FIELDS BILL
Order for Second Reading read.
Mr. Deputy Speaker : Objection taken. Second Reading what day?
Mr. David Amess (Basildon) : With the agreement of the Member in charge of the Bill, Friday 20 July.
Second Reading deferred till Friday 20 July.
NUMBERING OF PREMISES BILL
Order for Second Reading read.
Mr. Deputy Speaker : Second Reading what day? No day named.
CONTROL OF TOXIC WASTE RESIDUES BILL
Order for Second Reading read.
Second Reading deferred till Friday 20 July.
DRUG TESTING (SCHOOLS) BILL
Order for Second Reading read.
Second Reading deferred till Friday 20 July.
INJURIOUS AFFECTION (AMENDMENT) BILL
Order for Second Reading read
Mr. Deputy Speaker : Second Reading what day? No day named.
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EUROPEAN PARLIAMENT ELECTORAL REFORM BILL
Order for Second Reading read
Second Reading deferred till Friday 20 July.
FORMER MINISTERS (INTERESTS) BILL
Order for Second Reading read
Second Reading deferred till Friday 20 July.
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