---

Column 21

Teachers' Pay

3 pm

Mr. Speaker : Statement Mr. MacGregor.

Mr. George Foulkes (Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley) : On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, about the statement.

Mr. Speaker : Well, how can there be a point of order about a statement which we have not heard?

Mr. Foulkes : On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. It is unclear whether the statement applies only to England and Wales or to the United Kingdom. It was the same--

Mr. Speaker : Order. We had better wait and see.

Mr. Foulkes rose --

Mr. Speaker : No. The hon. Gentleman may get an opportunity-- Mr. Foulkes rose --

Mr. Speaker : Order. I ask the hon. Gentleman to resume his seat. Mr. Foulkes rose --

Mr. Dick Douglas (Dunfermline, West) : On a point of order, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker : Order. This is an abuse.

Mr. Douglas rose --

Mr. Speaker : Order. The hon. Member for Dunfermline, West (Mr. Douglas) may have an opportunity to put a question during the statement. I call Mr. MacGregor.

The Secretary of State for Education and Science (Mr. John MacGregor rose - -

Mr. Douglas : On a point of order, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker : Order. I must ask the hon. Gentleman to sit down.

Mr. Douglas : No, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker : In that case, I must order the hon. Gentleman to sit down.

Mr. Douglas : No, on a point of order, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker : I order the hon. Gentleman to resume his seat. I do not want to take--

Mr. Douglas : On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, on the statement.

Mr. Speaker : Order. I have told the hon. Gentleman to sit down.

Mr. Douglas : On a point of order, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker : I now order the hon. Gentleman to leave the Chamber for the remainder of today's sitting.

Mr. Douglas : On a point of order, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker : I repeat that I order the hon. Gentleman to leave the Chamber for the remainder of today's sitting.

Mr. Douglas : On a point of order. This is something else--

---

Column 22

Mr. Speaker : Order. The hon. Member will put himself in jeopardy if he does not now obey the order of the Chair.

Mr. Douglas : We are entitled to know--

Mr. Speaker : Order. I give the hon. Member one final chance-- Mr. Douglas rose --

Mr. Speaker : I name Mr. Dick Douglas.

Motion made, and Question put,

That Mr. Dick Douglas be suspended from the service of the House.-- [Sir Geoffrey Howe.]

The House divided : Ayes 177, Noes 25.

Division No. 310] [3.34 pm

AYES

Arbuthnot, James

Arnold, Jacques (Gravesham)

Ashby, David

Baker, Nicholas (Dorset N)

Baldry, Tony

Barnes, Mrs Rosie (Greenwich)

Batiste, Spencer

Beaumont-Dark, Anthony

Bennett, Nicholas (Pembroke)

Blackburn, Dr John G.

Blaker, Rt Hon Sir Peter

Boscawen, Hon Robert

Boswell, Tim

Bowden, Gerald (Dulwich)

Bowis, John

Boyes, Roland

Braine, Rt Hon Sir Bernard

Brandon-Bravo, Martin

Brazier, Julian

Brown, Michael (Brigg & Cl't's)

Bruce, Ian (Dorset South)

Buck, Sir Antony

Burns, Simon

Burt, Alistair

Butler, Chris

Carlisle, Kenneth (Lincoln)

Carrington, Matthew

Cartwright, John

Clark, Dr Michael (Rochford)

Clarke, Rt Hon K. (Rushcliffe)

Coleman, Donald

Coombs, Simon (Swindon)

Couchman, James

Cran, James

Cunningham, Dr John

Davies, Q. (Stamf'd & Spald'g)

Davis, David (Boothferry)

Dickens, Geoffrey

Douglas-Hamilton, Lord James

Dover, Den

Durant, Tony

Dykes, Hugh

Evans, John (St Helens N)

Fallon, Michael

Favell, Tony

Fenner, Dame Peggy

Field, Barry (Isle of Wight)

Finsberg, Sir Geoffrey

Flynn, Paul

Fookes, Dame Janet

Forman, Nigel

Foster, Derek

French, Douglas

Gale, Roger

Garel-Jones, Tristan

Glyn, Dr Sir Alan

Golding, Mrs Llin

Goodlad, Alastair

Gorman, Mrs Teresa

Gow, Ian

Grant, Sir Anthony (CambsSW)

Greenway, Harry (Ealing N)

Gregory, Conal

Hague, William

Hanley, Jeremy

Hannam, John

Hargreaves, A. (B'ham H'll Gr')

Hargreaves, Ken (Hyndburn)

Harris, David

Haselhurst, Alan

Hattersley, Rt Hon Roy

Haynes, Frank

Hayward, Robert

Hicks, Robert (Cornwall SE)

Higgins, Rt Hon Terence L.

Hind, Kenneth

Hoey, Ms Kate (Vauxhall)

Hordern, Sir Peter

Howarth, G. (Cannock & B'wd)

Howe, Rt Hon Sir Geoffrey

Howell, Rt Hon D. (S'heath)

Hughes, Robert G. (Harrow W)

Hunt, Sir John (Ravensbourne)

Irvine, Michael

Jack, Michael

Janman, Tim

Jessel, Toby

Johnson Smith, Sir Geoffrey

Jones, Gwilym (Cardiff N)

Kellett-Bowman, Dame Elaine

Key, Robert

Kinnock, Rt Hon Neil

Knapman, Roger

Knight, Greg (Derby North)

Knight, Dame Jill (Edgbaston)

Knox, David

Lawrence, Ivan

Lennox-Boyd, Hon Mark

Lightbown, David

Lloyd, Sir Ian (Havant)

Macfarlane, Sir Neil

MacGregor, Rt Hon John

MacKay, Andrew (E Berkshire)

McLoughlin, Patrick

McNair-Wilson, Sir Patrick

Madel, David

Malins, Humfrey

Mans, Keith

Maples, John

Marshall, John (Hendon S)

Martin, David (Portsmouth S)

Mates, Michael

Maxwell-Hyslop, Robin

Michael, Alun

Miller, Sir Hal

Mitchell, Andrew (Gedling)

Moate, Roger

Monro, Sir Hector

Montgomery, Sir Fergus

Morris, M (N'hampton S)

Morrison, Sir Charles

Morrison, Rt Hon P (Chester)

---