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Sir John Stanley (Tonbridge and Malling) : I welcome the fact that the Government have allocated a full day to this debate. I agree with my hon. Friend the Member for Twickenham (Mr. Jessel) that the Government have taken far more care and have followed a far more coherent and effective policy on noise than any of their predecessors.
I want to discuss railway noise in the light of the fact that the opening of the channel tunnel is less than three years away. I am not seeking to be hostile about the channel tunnel project, and I recognise the imperitive need for sensible rail use of that important national infrastructure. I am concerned, however, because the present legislation on compensation for noise and on noise insulation will, without doubt, be glaringly anomalous and unfair from the moment that the channel tunnel opens in 1993.
I can best illustrate my argument by referring to how the present legislation affects my constituency. Two existing railway lines in my constituency and one other proposed line will serve the channel tunnel. The southernmost line, the Tonbridge and Paddock Wood line, is one of the two designated rail routes that will lead to the channel tunnel. Once the tunnel is open and until the new line is built, that line will carry the major proportion of through international passenger and freight traffic. Once the tunnel opens, the tranquillity enjoyed by those people
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who, unfortunately, live in close proximity to that track will be severely curtailed. Rail traffic noise will especially increase during sleeping hours.On the freight traffic alone it is forecast that one international through freight train will pass Tonbridge station every 20 minutes between 10 pm and 6 am, seven days a week. Those trains will travel at 75 mph, will be approximately half a mile in length and will take half a minute to pass a given point. Those who live in the houses that back on to Tonbridge station face precious few night rail movements at present, but such is the forecast increase in noise levels.
Because legislation does not permit compensation or noise insulation to be obtained as a result of the intensification of an existing use without new work being carried out, as defined under the Land Compensation Act 1961, the people involved will have no compensation, even though the value of their homes will certainly depreciate hugely. The value of their homes will probably have depreciated already, but those people will have no statutory entitlement to noise insulation either.
A few miles to the north is the second designated route to the channel tunnel, the Maidstone East line. British Rail has already introduced a Bill --the British Railways (No. 3) Bill--into another place to give itself powers to construct a number of new passing loops along the line to accommodate channel tunnel traffic. One of the loops is in Borough Green in my constituency. It is a good illustration of the absurdity and unfairness of the present statutory position, because those houses immediately adjacent to the new loops that are to be constructed will be eligible for compensation and statutory noise insulation under the Land Compensation Act. However, a few yards further on, where the loop converges with the existing line, similarly placed houses suffering identical noise pollution will have no statutory entitlement either to compensation or noise insulation.
It will be appreciated that my constituency is totally criss-crossed by rail routes to the channel tunnel, between which there is also a major road. A few miles to the north of the second route is the path of the new rail link as designated under present proposals. For the purposes of the Land Compensation Act, that is new work, so any house along that section will be entitled to compensation and noise insulation as a result of noise pollution. Therefore, within a section of very few miles, there is one proposed line along which everybody will get compensation for, and noise insulation against, noise disturbance if they are eligible, another line where only those living on a loop will be entitled to compensation and a third line where no one will receive anything. That is clearly absurd and, more importantly, it is seriously unfair and inequitable for a number of individuals.
No doubt the issue of precedents has already been raised with Ministers, both in the Department of the Environment and, more directly, in the Department of Transport, which is closely considering the issue. No doubt it will be said by those given responsibility for advising Ministers that if they concede the precedent of giving compensation and noise insulation for noise disturbance because of the intensification of existing use, they will have to grant them for every intensification of an existing use. I do not accept that argument and I earnestly
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hope that Ministers will not either. Setting such a precedent would not lead to the granting of that concession in all circumstances, because this is a totally unique position.There is only one channel tunnel and only two designated rail routes to it. To the best of my knowledge, a completely new huge source of rail traffic, with all its noise implications, has never been discharged on to existing rail routes that have been lightly used, particularly at night, in this country. Therefore, it is right to look at the circumstances and not be mesmerised by a specious argument about precedent.
Mr. Michael Irvine (Ipswich) : I correct my right hon. Friend on one point. The circumstances are not unique. Exactly the same sort of thing happened in Ipswich when the Ipswich-Felixstowe railway line, originally just a passenger line to a seaside town, became the conduit for massive freight trains from Felixstowe to Ipswich. Those trains caused considerable upset, disturbance and unhappiness to a significant number of people living nearby. Therefore, I correct my right hon. Friend on that point but I sympathise with and support his argument.
Sir John Stanley : I thank my hon. Friend for giving me his local background. We cannot change the past but if, in future, there should be a similar scale of sudden noise disturbance from a new source of railway traffic onto an existing route, it would be entirely justified and equitable to adopt a similar policy to that which I hope will be used in relation to the existing lines which, it is proposed, channel tunnel traffic should use.
Ministers are exercised about the issue of precedent--I know of one direct precedent for giving both compensation and noise insulation for the intensification of an existing use. I know about it because I was the Minister responsible for putting it into effect. I was well assisted by my hon. Friend, then Under-Secretary of State for the Armed Forces, now happily strategically placed as the Minister of State, Department of Transport. Exactly the same issue was raised when Tornado aircraft were deployed to RAF Leeming, which was an ongoing operational RAF air station being used for flying. There was no doubt that the deployment of Tornado aircraft would dramatically damage the environment and cause intrusive noise pollution in the immediate flight path of RAF Leeming. We decided that the right course was to pay compensation for the depreciation in value of, and buy out at their full market value, the houses that had effectively become valueless and, where necessary, give noise pollution protection.
I stress that a precedent has been created in the Ministry of Defence for dealing with precisely the same circumstances. My constituents face the railway equivalent of a Tornado deployment. It will create a reasonable parallel in railway terms when the channel tunnel opens to through passenger and freight traffic in 1993. The merits of the case are that, for many years, certainly since the Land Compensation Act was passed, we have accepted that it is only fair and reasonable that when the value of someone's main asset, invariably the home, is seriously diminished because of a major piece of national infrastructure, the individual should not suffer a crippling loss because something needed by the nation as a whole has to be built. That is the position with the channel tunnel and of those people with homes alongside existing
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designated rail routes. It cannot be right, in equity or morality, for the value of homes to be slashed by half or two thirds or possibly even made valueless because the nation wants the channel tunnel and wants it to be used for through rail traffic, as it should be.A real moral obligation is involved and I am glad that the Secretary of State and the Minister of State, Department of Transport have recognised that, to the extent that they are considering whether compensation and noise insulation can be granted for the intensification of railway use created by the channel tunnel project. I hope that the Minister will draw my remarks to their attention and that, when the Government announce their conclusion at the end of the year, it will be a positive one, because that is the only conclusion that would be fair and reasonable in the circumstances for the relatively small number of people who are affected.
7.1 pm
Mr. Paul Flynn (Newport, West) : We have been treated to two speeches by Front-Bench spokesmen which were reasonable and constructive and which will lead to major improvements in legislation in the next Session. It is a shame that my hon. Friend the Member for Stoke-on-Trent, North (Ms. Walley) was interrupted by a contribution that seemed a repetition of the sort of meaningless mantras of accusation and counter- accusation which so often fill this place and are themselves an example of noise pollution.
Mr. Jessel : If the hon. Gentleman happens to be referring to my intervention, I must point out that I was picking up the point made by the hon. Member for Stoke-on-Trent, North (Ms. Walley), who questioned the credibility of the Government in dealing with noise, including aircraft noise. I merely pointed out the excellent record of the Government, which had not been an echo of what went before under the Labour Government. That was a legitimate point to make.
Mr. Flynn : I thank the hon. Gentleman for illustrating my point so well again.
My hon. Friend the hon. Member for Linlithgow (Mr. Dalyell) referred to the Dalek-like braying at Question Time. It has its positive aspects, however. I know that one of my colleagues who represents a Welsh constituency was grateful for the habit. He purchased a sound tape of an Adjournment debate that he had had at 4 am one day and took it home to his mother, who listened to it admiringly, not realising that he was addressing yards of empty leather. She called in the neighbours and told them to listen to it : "When the Prime Minister and the others speak, there is a lot of talking and laughing going on ; but when my son speaks you can hear a pin drop."
We have long underestimated the damage that noise inflicts when it bombards our ear drums. My hon. Friend the Member for Stoke-on-Trent, North mentioned industrial noise. Many years ago I worked in a nail factory on the docks in Cardiff, where we were bombarded by deafening noise from dozens of nail-making machines. That was a terrible experience. The noise was so intense that the only way to communicate was to shout at the top of one's voice within a few inches of someone's eardrum. Thousands of people who worked in that factory are now permanently disabled as a result.
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We now have the answers. There is no excuse left, but, sad to say, there are still irresponsible employers who allow bad conditions to persist. Some people, too, have little respect for or knowledge about their health and continue to work in damaging conditions. We have an extraordinary threshold of tolerance of noise. When wartime evacuees went from places such as Liverpool or London to Welsh villages they could not sleep because they were disturbed by the intensity of the silence. It very much depends on the level of background noise to which we are used. It puzzles many of my generation that we have bred a generation of young people who seem to need an endless drip-feed of pop music--who cannot function unless their heads are continually enveloped in a cloud of noise. But it is sporadic, unforeseen and uncontrolled noise that perturbs us. I refer to formidable and all-pervading intrusive noise nuisance which, when it enters our homes and gardens, trespasses on our peace and violates the private space that we all need around us. I refer to traffic noise, noise from neighbours, noise from night clubs which pour out their megadecibels just when children are going to sleep. Then there is the endless, repetitive barking of dogs and heavy metal music coming from the gardens of neighbours, fracturing our peace and obliterating the sound of bird song. A particularly irritating source of noise is quite new. It comes from the yuppy in the train thundering fatuous messages in a megaphone voice to his secretary on his mobile phone.Motor bikes are a problem in my constituency, which is ringed by beautiful hills. They are a great nuisance on the roads, but they are excruciating in the countryside, especially when they cavort on the tops of hills, where the macho status of the rider seems to be measured by the number of excess decibels that he can blast out. I remember when transistor radios first arrived to assault our ears. Some poor tormented soul was driven to invent a retaliatory device that he could carry in his pocket and which, when pressed, would turn off the sound of any transistor in earshot.
I know that we are likely to hear many practical suggestions as a result of the Batho report and the coming legislation, but I should have thought it within our wonderful technical power to devise a battery of anti-noise weapons--for example one that could cross the lines of a mobile phone. I have given up hope of breeding a species of dog with an off-switch or volume control, but dogs have been bred in all sorts of mutated forms, some of them damaging to the dogs themselves. The irritant factor consists in the fact that the smaller the dog, the more piercing and worrying its bark. Perhaps we could look to the dog breeders to breed dogs that make less irritating noise.
I should like a zapping device for burglar alarms to silence them, or a device to change the bedlam of heavy metal to the sounds of Pavarotti. Unfortunately, however, one person's Pavarotti is another person's pain in the ear.
I doubt whether burglar alarms are of any use at all. I have twice experienced burglar alarms going out of control. One erupted into deafening life because there was a break of a few seconds in the electricity supply. That sent out a pulse that caused the thing to ring. I tried everything to silence it--first switching off the electric switch at the mains, which did no good ; then dismantling the box inside the house and taking out the battery in it, which did no good either. Then I dismantled the wiring inside the box :
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still no peace. One of the dogs joined in the cacophony because it could stand the noise no longer. In the end the only way to silence the alarm was to get a ladder and go up to the box outside, dismantle it and take out the battery.I had a similar experience a few weeks ago before returning from the recess. Again, a cut in the electricity supply where I live set off a flashing light on top of the building. We could not turn it off for two whole days. The cacophony on the previous occasion lasted for hours and we live in Newport within 200 yards of the main police station, but not a soul took any notice of the noise, least of all the police. It is doubtful whether burglar alarms have any beneficial--
Mr. Summerson : May I recommend a good way of dealing with burglar alarms? All the hon. Gentleman needs to do is to obtain a spade, and a good job can be made of slicing the alarm off the wall with one upward sweep of the spade.
Mr. Flynn : I am grateful for that advice, but I should need a spade with a rather long handle as my flat is about 60 ft off the ground--but I shall remember that and keep one handy.
The message sent out by burglar alarms that are out of control is one of invitation to the burglar. As no one takes any notice of them they act as an invitation to theft, not as a deterrent.
Car alarms seem to have a life of there own. They screech into life for no apparent reason and seem to be out of control. The Minister suggested a five-minute burst but 20 seconds should be the maximum. It is disappointing that the Government are not acceding to the advice offered by the Select Committee on Defence. I say that in a typical non-party spirit. Low-flying aircraft greatly disturb people in many parts of Wales that are otherwise tranquil. They are a terrible nuisance and the tearing, screeching noise comes on suddenly and is greatly upsetting. I am sure that the Select Committee on Defence had taken all the defence implications into account when it advised that the RAF should abandon low flying down to 100 ft. I understand from reports in this morning's press that the Government do not intend to accept that recommendation.
I hope that the debate and the recommendations will give rise to reforms and new regulations that we shall all be able to welcome. We look forward to the time when there will be peace. Fiat pax. Bydded tawelwch. Let there be peace.
7.11 pm
Mrs. Maureen Hicks (Wolverhampton, North-East) : We are not often afforded the luxury of a whole evening's debate on an issue that is dear to the hearts of my constituents. I intend to take full advantage of the opportunity to draw attention to a problem that we have had to live with for many years. It is the problem of serious noise pollution and it was referred to by the hon. Member for Stoke-on-Trent, North (Ms. Walley) who spoke about noisy parties and blues parties. I am worried about the level of expectation that the debate will arouse among my constituents and among those who live in inner-city areas.
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They will be delighted at our opportunity to debate noise but if nothing comes from it there will be tremendous disappointment. In the past 12 months we have had many debates on the environment. We have debated the Environmental Protection Bill and before us is the working party review on noise. We have had a White Paper and no doubt there is another environment Bill in the pipeline. Such high priority by the Government is welcome. In the past 12 months there has been ample scope to legislate in areas that are most crucial to improving the quality of life of our constituents. Such issues are also a Government priority, as we have proved.In order to make progress on problems resulting from noise pollution, Departments will have to work more closely together. Earlier we heard about the need for Environment Ministers to work more closely with Transport Ministers. I am keen to see the Home Office working closely with the Department of the Environment. Although many of the issues that I shall raise do not directly affect the Department of the Environment, I hope that my hon. Friend the Minister will take them on board and deliver them carefully and in a committed way to his colleagues in the Home Office.
The absence of a recommendation in the working party report to make deliberate, sustained and excessive noise a criminal offence worries me. In spite of all the debate over past months, we are in danger of failing yet again to tackle one of the most serious issues undermining the quality of life in inner cities and causing untold anguish to residents who have to live with our failure to legislate effectively.
Noise pollution caused by blues parties and noisy parties, often held in semi-detached houses in residential areas, has proved dreadful. More often than not such parties are held in council properties. The problem is far from new. Blues parties have been with us for about 30 years, especially in urban areas such as London, Birmingham, Wolverhampton and Manchester. I could add to that list. Successive Governments have merely tampered with the issue and have consistently failed to bring forward specific legislation giving the police or another body the authority to take immediate action to stop noisy parties.
The latest figures at my disposal for the west midlands relate to 1988. They record 4,412 incidents with a noisy party classification. I regret to say that 773 of those incidents took place in Wolverhampton. The local authority at that time issued 40 noise notices. Already between January and September this year 36 notices have been served under the Control of Pollution Act 1974. As I have said, the problem is not peculiar to Wolverhampton and the west midlands. I would resist any attempt, such as that made by the hon. Member for Stoke-on-Trent, North, to set up a recognised formal location in which such parties could be held. I know that my constituents who live with this problem would resist such a proposal at all costs.
Why did the Government act so swiftly to legislate to deal with the relatively new problem of acid parties? The parties are held in rural areas and more often than not they are not held in residential homes but out in the wilds in warehouses or similar places. We strengthened the law in that respect but disappointed my constituents by not acting more rigorously to improve the quality of life of our inner-city residents by acting on noisy parties.
In January 1990, the Department of the Environment wrote to my local council. Hon. Members who know me
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well will know that I do not often agree with thatLabour-controlled council. However, we are at one on the problem of noisy parties. The DOE letter stated :
"Although the Environmental Protection Bill does present an opportunity to consolidate into a single code the various definitions of statutory nuisance--including noise--it was never the intention that the Bill be used at all to introduce major changes to noise legislation. Whilst I appreciate that you will be disappointed that there will be no more new noise provisions in the Bill the Government believes that a thorough review to identify what further measures are necessary is, on balance, preferable to suggesting clauses that would not have been subjected to a reasonably wide consultation." My retort to that is, "And so say all of us."
With bated breath, and after many years of waiting for action, we awaited the conclusions of the working party which are now before us. I turned to the chapters on noise, especially neighbourhood and entertainment noise, because problems about those matters fill my mail bag. When I read those chapters my heart sank. It was a little bit like reading the guide to the noise complaints procedure. I was given that guide and told to show it to my constituents. I have no doubt that it contains much good information, but if I gave it to my constituents as an answer to the problem of noise they would laugh at me and say, "That is the theory but please deal with the practice." Time and again, a great deal of theory has been proved not to work in practice. With the greatest of respect, while I believe that the working party did its best to be constructive, I must point out to it that we have been there, we have seen it and we have done it. Its proposals give little hope of a solution to our problems. We have looked at neighbourhood noise watch. The environmental health officers have looked at night time patrols and weekend patrols. We have set up working parties involving the police and environmental health officers, and they have all worked to ensure that they know the guidelines and the law. However, the problem is how to produce a solution from what is available. I could fill the Chamber with Wolverhampton constituents who could testify from first-hand experience that even if the law were amended by the proposals of the working party, that would not increase the powers of those responsible for putting an end to the blues and noisy parties when they are in full flight.
Mr. John Carlisle : Does Wolverhampton have the same problem that we have in Luton, with blues parties in which large numbers of people participate? In many cases, when the police are called, there are either insufficient numbers of police to cope with the problem or the police are frightened to go in to break up the parties because of the ensuing mayhem. In some cases, the police will be accused of stopping people enjoying themselves. We have now reached the dangerous situation where police almost back off in fear of life and limb from these parties, let alone of the backlash that results.
Mrs. Hicks : Police cannot gain access in many cases, and if they choose a sensitive moment to go in, they have to have a reason for doing so.
It is time that the House listened to the people who suffer. Working parties are good. They provide the theory, but we need constructive action based on that foundation. I have the example of Mr. John White, an 81-year- old heart attack and stroke victim who lives in a Wolverhampton block of flats where a blues party took
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place this year. Most of the residents in the block are elderly, so perhaps the housing manager is wrong for allowing a mix of young and old in a block of high-rise flats, but that is another point. Mr. White lives below the flat where the party went on for three days and nights solidly. He said :"I felt like committing suicide, the noise was so loud--I wanted to go up there but I was too scared."
At the age of 81, he was quite right not to tackle 200 or 300 people, but he needs someone to do it for him.
I know how I feel about noise in flats. I have a humble little abode in London, to which I return late at night. The only good thing about this place sitting until the early hours is that if I get home at 1 or 2 o'clock in the morning, I have only to endure a couple of hours of the noisy record player below me, which goes off at about 3 o'clock. As I lie there, willing it to end, I think of that man and others like him who have to endure not one hour or one record but 200 or 300 people, amplified music and so on, for 71 hours. It is hard for us to imagine such a situation.
People living in a semi-detached house can watch 200 or 300 people pouring into the next-door house for days on end. They can watch the hot dog stall arrive outside to set up business. Meanwhile, the neighbours try to get children to sleep. They endure the associated problems of prostitution, alcohol and drug abuse and so on. When the party finally ends, they are left with the debris and the glass.
Mr. David Evans (Welwyn Hatfield) : Do not forget the football hooligans.
Mrs. Hicks : I agree with my hon. Friend. The people who have to deal with the parties have to watch the fights in the street, people urinating, car loads coming and going. They wonder why someone is not doing something about this.
I have to report the frustration of the residents, the police, the local authority enforcement officers and the local Member of Parliament--me--who is asked why something is not being done about the problem. The problem is that when these people phone the police, they are told that the police have no right of entry. Often, they are in a disturbed and angry state, and they believe, as my hon. Friend the Member for Luton, North (Mr. Carlisle) hinted, that the police are looking for excuses not to intervene. That is dangerous because, more often than not, that is not the case. I have a lot of dealings with police in my town and they point out to me that they are not permitted to go into a house.
When there are complaints about noisy parties, the only solution is to go through all the rigmarole of getting an environmental health officer to serve an abatement notice, but that does not mean that the party will stop immediately. The notice says that the noise should stop within 30 minutes, and if it does not, the prosecution can proceed and the case will go to the courts two or three months later. Meanwhile, the party goes on for two or three days and the enforcement officer and the police cannot go in.
There is often a problem in indentifying the person holding the party. In many incidents, people have borrowed keys claiming that they want to rent a property, taken a copy of the keys and then held a party in that property. Unfortunately, my local council has so many empty properties that it is easy for parties to be held in this
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way. It does not seem to matter that there is no electricity because people install generators in the steet. They have an answer to everything.A leading policeman in Wolverhampton said something about this in October 1987--that far back--and I quote him because it is often said that the police do not want more powers and this shows that they do. He said :
"Blues parties are the greatest potential source of serious disorder that we have got in this borough. We are defeated in terms of noisy parties--the law doesn't provide any answer. It is the worst problem we've got."
Wolverhampton council and the police have worked closely to overcome the problem and to look for solutions, but they do not have the power to stop the noise immediately. How can the Government say, hand on heart, that controls on neighbourhood noise are already sufficiently tough?
Earlier in the year I received a letter from a member of my party who wrote to me complaining of this problem and asking me to check whether the police were simply looking for excuses. I received a reply from the Home Office which said :
"I understand that one of Mrs. Hicks' constituents had written to say that they had complained to the police about noise from a neighbour's house, only to be told that the police had no powers to put a stop to it.
We can confirm that this is correct. The police have no statutory powers of entry where the problem is simply one of noise." The use of "simply" is surely an understatement. The letter continues :
"Sometimes, provided the person making the complaint has already asked his neighbour to desist and has been ignored, the police will ask a householder to keep the noise down."
They have no power to enforce that request. The police say, "Please turn the music down," but the party continues. The letter adds : "in practice the majority of people will comply."
We have heard something about cloud cuckoo land recently, and I suggest that the letter is another example of that. It continues : "The only recourse open to your constituent under statute is through the Control of Pollution Act 1974."
It seems that at that stage there is an invitation to go round in circles yet again. The letter adds :
"If the noise does not stop"--
obviously, we are not talking of one isolated party--
"the complainant can, with the support of two other people, approach the local authority for a noise abatement notice. If subsequent to this the noise still continues then the person responsible for it can be prosecuted."
We are back to square one.
After a thorough study of the practicalities of the problem, I am convinced that the police need the authority to enter premises. I shall be grateful to my hon. Friend the Minister if he takes up that message. The police should be able to enter premises and effectively stop the party. If necessary, they should be able to arrest the organisers and remove the offending audio equipment, drink, generators and other items. The police should have the power to request party organisers to abate the noise. If the request is ignored, the police should have the power to enter the premises by force, if necessary, and stop the party there and then.
These powers may appear to many to be draconian. Two or three years ago, even the police in my constituency would have argued that they were not needed. It is for
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legislators, however, to include conditions with police powers and to provide safeguards. It may be considered that local authority representatives and environmental health officers are present when the police go to premises where parties of the sort that I have described are taking place. As they all work closely together to curb the problem, there is no reason why local authority representatives and EHOs should not be present when a request is made to a party organiser to stop the activity. I am sure that after one or two closures the message would begin to reach home. The organisers might then adopt a more co- operative approach than at present.At the moment, party organisers are laughing at us. They are getting away with murder, as it were, and they know it. Those who organise blues parties --often on a semi-commercial basis--are often awkward and unco-operative. They have no regard for the welfare and well-being of those living around the premises which are being used for the party. Often they are strangers to the area.
Are we on the side of the offenders or on the side of the general public? I say to those who argue that we should not give powers to the police that they are on the side of offenders.
Another letter from the Department of the Environment to the local council of January 1990 stated :
"The Government need to be satisfied that existing powers are inadequate before contemplating giving the police the power of entry to seize equipment they request."
I believe that I have the evidence--this is true of many other hon. Members who represent urban areas--to fill a book. I shall endeavour to satisfy the Government of my case. If we continue to ignore the views of all those who are confronted by the problem, including EHOs, the police and residents, we could be accused of turning a blind eye to a real problem.
We have fulfilled many commitments to improve the quality of life in our cities. I was so proud when my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister made that improvement a priority in June 1987. Unfortunately, we still have to solve the problem of noise, but I live in hope. I feel that we have not fully understood the problem. I am sure that it is not a matter of our wishing to do nothing about it. Some of the letters that I have received confirm that that is so. As I have said, I live in hope, and I am sure that the same can be said of many of my constituents, who have asked me to raise this issue in the House for many years. I am sure that the Government will listen.
We have time to make amends in a future environment Bill and also in a future criminal justice Bill. If we do not legislate, what realistic remedy would the Government suggest, if it is accepted that the present mechanism does not work? We have already lost far too many opportunities. I remind the Department of the Environment of a promise that was made in December 1989 when the announcement was made that the Government were to review noise laws. It said :
"Together with other Government Departments we shall take whatever action is necessary to strengthen the law in relation to noise nuisance generally."
I implore my hon. Friend the Minister not to waste the opportunity that is still open to him and the Department to do something to reduce the problem and to improve the quality of life of inner-city residents.
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7.35 pmMr. Tom Cox (Tooting) : It is a great pleasure to take up the remarks of the hon. Member for Wolverhampton, North-East (Mrs. Hicks). I am sure that her comments will be echoed. Indeed, I intend to speak about the very problem to which she referred. Whatever part of the country we represent, I am sure that the nuisance that she has outlined has been suffered by many of our constituents. The hon. Lady obviously lives in her constituency, as I live in mine, and we know at first hand the suffering of many of our constituents.
There are many obvious and important aspects of noise pollution, but I wish to direct my remarks to that of loud music. Blues parties take place in my constituency in south London, but I have more in mind the problem of loud music that is played in residential areas and not necessarily at a party. I am sure that such music is often played by those who enjoy it. It is questionable, however, whether it is enjoyable when it starts to be played early in the evening and continues for hour after hour, night after night. I am talking about extremely loud music. The problem has existed in my constituency for many years.
The hon. Member for Wolverhampton, North-East outlined her involvement with various organisations that come within the ambit of the police or the local authority. Over the years, I have had the same involvement. I wonder whether the Minister, and previous Ministers, fully understand the suffering of ordinary families throughout the country.
In a residential area in my constituency, a man tried politely and peacefully to reduce the level at which extremely loud music was being played night after night. I understand that he said, "Could you please turn the music down?" or, "Could you play your music until 11 or 12 at night and then stop doing so?" My constituent was told in no certain terms to get lost. We all know the sort of language that is associated with such statements. He was told also that if he did not get lost there would be means by which he would soon be parked along with his complaint. He told me about this, and I took up the matter with the then junior Minister at the Department of the Environment, the hon. Member for Surrey, South-West (Mrs. Bottomley), who is now the Minister for Health. The hon. Lady was extremely courteous. She wrote to me saying that she could well understand the problem which faced my constituent in this instance, and which was shared by many others throughout the country. Sadly, what she wrote brought no help to my constituent.
When the noise recommenced, my constituent did what I think all of us in this place would consider to be the proper procedure. Sometimes, we parliamentarians feel that we have a better understanding of the law than many of those whom we represent, but my constituent did the right thing and went to the police. As the hon. Member for Wolverhampton, North-East said, there are many who feel that police powers are inadequate, and I agree with her to some extent. There are grounds for saying that the police should be given more powers. When my constituent told the police what was happening, they said that they would respond. After a while they went to the house where the music was playing so loudly. They knocked on the door and asked for the volume to be turned down, and it was. About half an hour later the volume of the music was increased, and again my constituent contacted the police. Again, the police
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attended, the same request was made and the same action was taken. The music was turned down, but half an hour later it was turned up again. My constituent went to the police again, who said "We understand what you are going through, but we do not have the manpower to keep sending one or two officers to the person whom you and we have identified as making the noise."I have discussed this problem repeatedly with chief superintendents in my borough. They say, "We are fully aware of this. We are inundated with complaints in the spring and summer, but such are the pressures of work that we no longer are available or willing to become involved in this problem."
My constituent explained his problem to the environmental health officer of Wandsworth borough council. My hon. Friend the Member for Stoke-on-Trent, North (Ms. Walley) spoke of her experience and said that local authorities, irrespective of whether they are Conservative or Labour-controlled, are genuinely concerned about noise problems in their areas. However, as she said, resources are a problem and authorities either do not have sufficient environmental health officers or they are not available at the time of night when they need to hear what the noise levels are. People are told by authorities, "We are sorry, but we do not employ officers after a certain time at night."
Having been to the police and the local authority, my constituent found that he was getting nowhere. He came to see me, and I took up his case with the then junior environment Minister. My constituent--I am sure that we can all understand this--had reached the stage of feeling utter despair. He followed what he assumed were the correct procedures, but he got nowhere.
My constituent was told by the environmental health officer in Wandsworth-- and he meant this in good faith--to take a tape recording of the noise, which he did. He then took it to the council, only to be told by another officer, "You were given the wrong information because such evidence is not acceptable in court." The hon. Member for Wolverhampton, North-East mentioned problems lasting weeks and weeks in her constituency. We can all speak of the noise problems that our constituents face week after week, but my constituent's problem lasted about three months.
My constituent then took out a civil action and won. He came to see me and told me of the suffering that his family had experienced. His wife, sadly, became so depressed because of this ongoing problem that her doctor sent her to St. George's hospital, Tooting, for treatment. As my constituent saw it, that was caused by the lack of action by the police and the local authority.
The hon. Member for Wolverhampton, North-East made a splendid speech on this important issue. She asked when we will get action, which is what we are seeking. I am sure that Ministers will say, "It is perhaps a small problem in some areas, but do not let us go overboard." Hon. Members know that it is a major problem in many parts of the country.
Sadly, for many years, my constituency has been notorious for prostitution and kerb crawling. Over the years, I have made speeches in the House, asked questions, met my local police, held public meetings and brought delegations of constituents to the House to meet Home Office Ministers. I can go back to when the noble Lord Whitelaw was Home Secretary and when Sir Leon Brittan was a Home Office Minister. They replied, "We
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