House of Commons Hansard Debates for 31 Oct 1990

Column 1051

understand the problems that your constituents face ; we shall do something," but they would never tell me when that would happen. It was about 15 years before the hon. Member for Plymouth, Drake (Dame J. Fookes) introduced a private Member's Bill giving greater power to the police to prevent kerb crawling. That took years and years of action, not only by me but by other hon. Members, of whom I think the hon. Member for Luton, North (Mr. Carlisle) was one, because I know that Luton has suffered from this problem, as have many other towns. When will we get action?

The hon. Member for Wolverhampton, North-East spoke of giving the police greater authority. I would not be hostile to that, but every hon. Member would want to know exactly what those powers would be. We need much greater control over noise. I do not think that any of our constituents can be in any doubt when music is being played loudly, and, by golly, they cannot be in any doubt when it is being played excessively loudly.

We all know about the Prime Minister's view of Wandsworth annd its wonderful poll tax.

Mr. Keith Vaz (Leicester, East) : Deception.

Mr. Cox : My hon. Friend says, "Deception," and, by golly, there has been deception. We in Wandsworth are facing massive cuts in all the essential services. Many of the voluntary services are being faced either with total or substantial cuts. What hope is there of getting more environmental officers or that they will be on duty when they should be?

This has been an interesting, good debate. As the hon. Member for Wolverhampton, North-East said, people outside, who will read reports of this debate or will perhaps hear excerpts on the radio, will say "Thank goodness someone in Parliament has been talking about the problem", but they will then expect action. I mentioned the problems that other hon. Members and I faced in trying to curb prostitution in our areas. That may have been a difficult problem, but it was never as difficult as we were led to believe. However, our constituents are right to expect some urgent action by the Government on the problem of loud music. The hon. Member for Hornchurch (Mr. Squire) intervened to make that very point.

The question is, when will the Government listen to what hon. Members have said, irrespective of their party? As Harry Truman said, the buck stops here. The buck on this vital issue stops with the Minister. I hope that he will give hope not only to hon. Members but especially to the people we represent.

7.50 pm

Mr. John Carlisle (Luton, North) : I am delighted to follow the hon. Member for Tooting (Mr. Cox). He may recall that some 11 years ago he followed my maiden speech and made nice noises about it. His excellent contribution followed the speech by my hon. Friend the Member for Wolverhampton, North-East (Mrs. Hicks). The problems about which they spoke echo those that we face in my constituency of Luton, so I shall be able to be more brief than I should otherwise have been.

I should like to draw the attention of the House to two noise matters, the first of which concerns car noise and motor traffic. This country's major motorway goes

Column 1052

through the middle of my constituency. The White Paper on roads states that that road is to be upgraded to four lanes within a short time. We welcome that and, as one who represents a car manufacturing town, I should welcome an improvement in Britain's road infrastructure.

I should like to make a point to my hon. Friend the Under-Secretary of State because of the cosy relationship that he now enjoys with his colleagues in the Department of Transport. The owners of the houses that will be affected by the road widening in my constituency and nearby look to the Government for assistance to alleviate the terrible nuisance from which they now suffer and which will be increased when the new highway is built. In the past, compensation was given on the rates. Local authorities cannot now make rate reductions because there is a personal tax.

It is interesting that the Department of Transport is talking about additional compensation for those who will suffer increased nuisance and noise because of the new motorway. I hope that it will continue to put money and research into building new banks and fences. What has been done with some new motorways is creditable. I hope that the Department will take note of the enormous nuisance that the new road will cause to many constituents.

My next point, which has been brought well to the fore by my fellow urban Members, concerns noisy parties. The hon. Member for Tooting and my hon. Friend the Member for Wolverhampton, North-East spoke about the frustration that they cause. There is a lack of adequate safeguards to deal with the terrible nuisance that they cause to old people and those who work night shifts and sleep while others play, as happens in our great manufacturing areas.

I should like to highlight one point which, although somewhat sensitive, must be paraded. A large number of people in Luton originated from the Caribbean. The young men and women have a habit of playing their music more loudly than normal and of playing music which, because of the thumping of the bass from drums or guitars, is much more of a noise nuisance than other music. The police are unable, and sometimes unwilling, to censure those causing that nuisance because of the delicate, and understandable, issue of race relations in the town. Race relations in the town are excellent.

The culture of some of the people who originated in the Caribbean islands is alien to many people who live in urban areas. What may be acceptable in a Caribbean town, with the long nights and the lapping seas, is not acceptable in the middle of Luton when people are trying to get to sleep because they have to get up the next morning and work in the local factories.

I offer a suggestion to the House and the police. Most of the people from those ethnic origins are members of various organisations and their ties are strong. I pay tribute to the leaders of those communities who try where they can to be good neighbours and to control the nuisances that some of their youngsters cause. Rather than throw more resources at the problem-- which the hon. Member for Tooting half hinted at--we should try to strengthen community relationships and persuade the leaders of those communities that it is unneighbourly for young men and women to behave as they do. Inevitably, some racial disharmony exists when 200 to 300 of those youths and girls converge not just on a semi-detached house--as described by my hon. Friend the

Column 1053

Member for Wolverhampton, North-East--but on the 10th storey of a tower block. There are several such blocks in my constituency and those gatherings cause even more nuisance to the hundreds of people who live in them. It is up to local communities to try to control their own people and to be a little more co-operative with the police.

This is a problem and a scourge. There is no doubt that, to some extent, we have almost been frightened to tackle it. After two long, hot summers, the problem has developed to such an extent that people are talking about having to leave districts where they have lived for years. Three-day parties are not unusual in my constituency, especially over bank holiday weekends. These people hold these parties without any regard for their near neighbours or their neighours for many miles around.

Hon. Members who respresent urban constituencies are pleading with the Government to deal with that problem, which will not go away. Much as I admire the idea of a pilot quiet neighbourhood scheme, I fear that it will be yet another fudge in some areas where the worst problems occur. The issue is extremely serious and it is distressing for my constituents to have their lives disrupted in that way. I hope that the optimism that may have been generated by the fact that we are discussing this subject will spill out to the Department of the Environment and particularly the Home Office and that some corrective punishment and corrective legislation is proposed so that nuisance goes away for ever.

7.58 pm

Mr. Keith Vaz (Leicester, East) : I welcome the debate and the choice of the environment as the subject for the last debate of this Session. Only in a place like this could we hear, as we did in the more sensible contribution of the hon. Member for Luton, North (Mr. Carlisle), about the singing cockerels in Luton ; about the blues parties in Wolverhampton ; and about mutated dogs in Newport. Perhaps later--I am afraid that I shall not be able to stay for the end of the debate--we will hear about hysterical iguanas from Ipswich. Had our proceedings not been televised, I would expect Miss Esther Rantzen to walk in and put us all on her show on Sunday.

I have a story about noisy pigeons. Shortly after I was elected, a local lady, Mrs. Murray, came to visit me at my surgery. She lived not in my constituency but in the county and therefore, according to parliamentary etiquette, I was not able to take up her case. She complained because her next-door neighbour had 100 pigeons in his pigeon loft. They would coo and make noises that prevented her and her husband from sleeping at night. I sent her to her own Member of Parliament, a Conservative Member whose name I shall not give as he is retiring at the next election. His solution was that Mr. and Mrs. Murray should get a licence, go to the local shops and purchase a gun and shoot the pigeons. I thought that that was rather a dramatic way of dealing with the problem. Although we all have amusing tales, these are major problems for those who have to put up with nuisance from noise.

The hon. Member for Twickenham (Mr. Jessel), whom I have known for many years--he was already a Member of Parliament when I went to school in Twickenham 20 or so years ago--referred to the Labour Government's record on aircraft noise. He said that it was the present Government's policy to prevent the expansion of Heathrow airport and that they had stopped the

Column 1054

development of terminal 5. He will recall-- as I do, because I was the prospective parliamentary candidate for neighbouring Richmond and my sister was the prospective candidate for Twickenham--the terminal was stopped because of the efforts of a residents' campaign involving all the political parties. The hon. Gentleman led the campaign in his constituency, but the other parties joined in the protest. That is why the Government turned down terminal 5.

The hon. Gentleman was wong to say that no major expansion of Heathrow has occurred under this Government. I have a note from the Library saying that the inspectors' report on terminal 4, published in December 1979, was accepted by John Nott, a Conservative Minister, on 17 December 1979. The hon. Gentleman's suggestion that it was this Government who stopped the expansion of Heathrow airport is not borne out by the facts.

Mr. Jessel : What I actually said will appear in Hansard tomorrow. I betted that the hon. Member for Stoke-on-Trent, North (Ms. Walley) could not name anything that the Labour Government had done to restrict aircraft noise at Heathrow, and I named three of this Government's actions--in respect of terminal 5, the Heathrow-Gatwick helicopter link and the curtailment of night flights.

Mr. Vaz : Hansard will also show that the hon. Gentleman has his facts wrong. It was under a Conservative Government that terminal 4 was agreed to.

My hon. Friend the Member for Stoke-on-Trent, North (Ms. Walley) was right to say that this debate is important. The hon. Member for Wolverhampton, North-East (Mrs. Hicks) was wrong to praise the Prime Minister's action. She said that, in 1987, the Prime Minister appeared on the scene like a green goddess and adopted the environment as the subject of a major policy shift for the 1990s. The green goddess has turned to green gunge and the Prime Minister and the Government have done little, if anything, to protect and preserve our local environment.

My constituency falls within the Leicester district council area. We are proud of Leicester city council's record and we claim to have a better record than any other city in the country.

Mrs. Hicks : I was not talking about the Prime Minister's achievements on green issues, the environment and inner cities. I was referring to her important achievements in housing, education and law and order and about what has been done to improve the quality of life of those who live in tower blocks, some of whom hold the blues parties to which I referred.

Mr. Vaz : I thank the hon. Lady for correcting me. She is right in thinking that there are no results that she could have praised in terms of the Government's policies on environmental issues. As I said, we like to think of Leicester as the green capital of Europe. The city council, under its chief environmental health officer, Michael Cooke, and its director of planning, John Dean, has put together an environmental strategy, which was published in 1983, long before it was fashionable to be involved with environmental issues.

Column 1055

The issues that I want to raise are concerned not with parties but with the development of industrial policy in our inner-city areas and our outer estates. My three examples all involve residential areas where the development of local industries has resulted in a great deal of noise. I should like planning departments and environmental health departments to act in closer concert in their work on this matter. I know that some local authorities have a policy whereby planning forms part of the environmental health brief. That is a constructive and proper way to deal with these matters. The environmental health departments of local councils ought to have a veto in planning matters as they affect the environment.

All the cases to which I shall refer involve the outer areas of my constituency. The first involves the activities of a firm called Neal Brothers, which has operated in the Charnwood area of my constituency for many years. Without planning consent, that firm constructed a vehicular access which not only caused a great deal of noise but affected the entertainment of almost every person who lived in the Prestwold road area. A local constituency campaign was launched by Mrs. Naylor, of 95 Prestwold road, who complained about the activities of the firm. Because of the way in which planning legislation operates at present, the planning and environmental health departments could not take effective action, even though they seemed to respond quickly to the complaints of local residents and the three local councillors. I hope that the planning Bill that is to be published next week will enable local authorities to take much more effective action on the breach of planning controls. My second example concerns the Coleman road area of my constituency. Mr. and Mrs. Rossington, of Crown Hills avenue, launched a campaign against a local development by a small manufacturing firm in the Temple road complex. I turned up at the complex at midnight with officers from the planning department to hear for myself the effects of that development. Unfortunately, because we had publicised our visit, the firm closed down early. Those involved must have known that we should be bringing with us representatives of the local press and various items of equipment to monitor the firm's activities. Since then the activities have been resumed and the noise nuisance and the nuisance from the lights surrounding the car park have been described by local residents as intolerable.

My third example of inner-city industrial chaos comes from the Oak street area of my constituency, where Mr. and Mrs. B. Jenney--local people-- launched a campaign to prevent a local construction firm, Paul John Construction, from seeking to vary the conditions of planning control and work for 24 hours. In her letter to the local authority Mrs. Jenney wrote :

"our home is only 10 feet from the property for the whole length of our house, so we get vibration and noise in every room, with no quiet area. The houses are very old and the vibration is very bad when heavy equipment is being brought in and out of the property in question. This is causing a lot of concern re the foundations of our home."

The Jenneys went on to explain that they could not possibly live in the house because of the noise generated by the firm.

Similar problems afflict the semi-residential, semi-industrial, West Humberstone area of my constituency.

Column 1056

People really are fed up with the fact that the local planning department does not have the necessary powers to curtail the activities of developers.

We know that a planning Bill is coming and we know that the Government have said broadly tonight that they will introduce measures to abate noise nuisance at a local level. However, words are cheap. The Opposition expect action to be taken now, not just because of the examples that we have raised, but because of the example referred to by the hon. Member for Wolverhampton, North-East of the 81-year-old gentleman in her constituency who has a noise problem. People of that age may not live long enough to see the results if we do not act soon. I hope that urgent action will be taken to enable people to live peacefully in their homes.

8.10 pm

Mr. Toby Jessel (Twickenham) : I hope that the hon. Member for Leicester, East (Mr. Vaz) will forgive me if I defer for a few minutes my reply to some of his points. I want first to mention the fact that the secretary of the working party which produced the Batho report entitled "Report of the Noise Review Working Party 1990" was a constituent of mine, Charlie Bayne, who died in July. Some years ago he suffered a serious accident which left him paralysed. My hon. Friend the Minister for the Environment and Countryside has already paid tribute to Mr. Bayne and my right hon. and learned Friend the Leader of the House did so last Thursday. In his foreword to the report, Mr. Batho states :

"The Working Party wishes to place on record their appreciation or the work done by our Secretary Charlie Bayne who died a few days after our final meeting. He earned the respect of us all for his great tenacity and application."

Although Mr. Batho and others made major contributions to that report, the report can be seen partly as an achievement of Charlie Bayne.

The Batho report is excellent. It is the first major report on noise since the Control of Pollution Act 1974. It contains a large number of proposals, some of which are being implemented already, as my hon. Friend the Minister said earlier. Many of the proposals deserve the concentrated attention of the Government and of Parliament.

Noise affects many of our constituents. At the outset, the report states :

"Noise has the capacity to irritate, annoy, interrupt sleep, increase stress, disrupt concentration and even to damage one's health."

That last point about health was borne out in a study carried out in the mid-1970s by a consultant psychiatrist at the West Middlesex hospital close to my constituency who found a correlation between aircraft noise and mental illness.

Complaints about noise have doubled in the past 10 years and it is a serious matter. The word "noise" is derived from the Latin word "nausea" which is generally used to refer to a loud or disturbing sound. The policy consortium on airports stated :

"In reality, noise has the capability to do much more than irritate or annoy. It can seriously disturb concentration, interrupt sleep and cause stress."

Noise is a danger to health. Of course there are pleasurable noises like the cooing of pigeons to which the hon. Member for Leicester, East referred a few moments ago.

Column 1057

Pleasurable noises also include classical music and Army bands, which make one of the finest noises which is a great tradition and one of the glories of the British nation.

Many of the noises that disturb people have already been referred to by hon. Members and they are listed in the documents before us. They include the noise of aircraft, helicopters, trains, lorries, industry, including the construction industry, sport, entertainment, and recreation, noisy parties, amplified music, dogs, burglar alarms and car alarms.

As living standards rise, people tend to worry less about where the next meal is coming from and-- [Interruption.] There is a little noise going on at the Table. [Interruption.] On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker. There is rather a lot of noise going on at the Table. As we are debating noise, I hope that my hon. Friend the Member for Birmingham, Selly Oak (Mr. Beaumont-Dark) will desist from making so much noise in the vicinity of the Table, thus diverting your attention, and the attention of the Clerk and the Whip from what I am saying.

Mr. Deputy Speaker (Mr. Harold Walker) : That is quite right.

Mr. Jessel : I am grateful to you, Mr. Deputy Speaker.

The improvement in living standards over the past 10 years taken as a whole, although the trend has not been completely even, has meant that as people worry less about where the next meal is coming from, they are more concerned about the quality of their surroundings, including the amount of noise. That is to be expected and the problem must be dealt with.

The greatest source of noise which annoys our constituents is neighbourhood noise. That fact emerged from the working party report. Paragraph 1 of chapter 3 in the report refers to the Building Research Establishment's inquiry which, in a sample of 14,000 responses, suggests that 14 per cent. of the adult population were bothered by neighbourhood noise, compared with 11 per cent. who are bothered by road traffic noise and 7 per cent. by aircraft noise. That would be a stratified random sample covering the whole country. That fact that aircraft noise is third on that list in no way implies that it is not very serious in the communities that are affected by it. A much higher proportion than 7 per cent. of the people would be bothered by aircraft noise in areas where such noise is concentrated.

In England and Wales, neighbourhood noise is the most annoying source of the nuisance. The 14 per cent. of people bothered by such noise is broken down further in the report which shows that amplified music is responsible for 34 per cent. of complaints and dogs for 33 per cent. Those two categories are far and away ahead of any other form of neighbourhood noise. After those two come domestic activities--whatever that may mean--at 9 per cent., voices at 6 per cent., DIY activities at 5 per cent., car repairs at 3 per cent. and other sources of neighbourhood noise, constituting 10 per cent. taken together.

The difference between the 34 per cent. for amplified music and the 33 per cent. for dogs is not statistically significant. However, we have discussed amplified music this evening much more than we have discussed dogs. I do not know why that has happened, because there is no significant statistical difference between the figure for

Column 1058

amplified music and that for dogs in the sample of 14,000. Indeed, the two can be taken as level pegging with regard to the number of complaints that they have generated.

Undoubtedly, the sound of dogs barking is very annoying to some people. It is a disjointed, tiresome noise--sometimes high-pitched. It must be regarded as a serious form of pollution. It would not be much helped by dog registration.

The Minister of State suggested the introduction of a pilot scheme for the abatement of neighbourhood noise in which he would seek the co-operation of the whole local community. I hope that, when that is suggested to the first neighbourhood to take it on, it will be invited to place not only amplified music but the sound of dogs barking high on its list of priorities for co- operation in the local communities because of the high rating given to both nuisances in the sample in the report.

I happen to enjoy Sunday morning gardening. I potter around as quietly as I can in my garden, pruning or whatever. My next door neighbour has six dogs, one of which is a Jack Russell, which has sharp ears. However quietly I carry out my pruning, it triggers a spate of barking by that Jack Russell, which I happen to find annoying. Conversely, I have to burn my wood because the local rubbish collection service will not collect garden prunings and clippings. One cannot use wood and prunings for compost, and I cannot get rid of it. If I burn the wood I can be prosecuted for pollution, although it is a perfectly healthy country smell which no one minds very much, yet if my neighbour disturbs me with dogs barking, there is nothing at the moment that can be done about it. That seems to be nonsense, and I hope that the Government will direct their attention to it.

I share the view of hon. Members on both sides of the House that amplified music is an appalling din. Whether it comes from late-night parties, acid house parties, blue parties or just young people who like their amplifiers tuned up as loudly as possible, it is grossly inconsiderate behaviour to blare out hyped-up music often late at night with a total lack of regard for the effect upon neighbours. I hope that that matter will feature largely in any action that the Government decide to take. I hope that the suggestion by my hon. Friend the Member for Hornchurch (Mr. Squire) that the Government look at Scottish law on this matter, including the confiscation of equipment, will be acted upon.

Our constituents want something to be done. They know that the report has been published. They do not expect an immediate decision on it next week, but they want something done within the next six to 12 months. I hope that the Government will introduce legislation and/or take some action to see what can be done about that terrible form of nuisance which afflicts large numbers of people.

Piped music, whether in restaurants or shops, is very annoying and degrading. In restaurants, it is unflattering to clients because it presupposes that they are incapable of making conversation with each other during the meal and that they have to have piped music to occupy their ears. It is an evil thing and I hope that something can be done to suppress it. Likewise, with transistor radios and car radios. Last week I was stuck in a traffic jam and there was a yuppy with an open car stuck next to me. He had his car radio turned on very loudly. I leaned out of my window

Column 1059

across to him, and said, "Would you please turn down that noise?" and he automatically did. Then he realised that he did not have to do it, and he turned it up again.

The Government should consider within their purview the suppression of noises from loud car radios as well as domestic radios, transistors, and other audio equipment in the street or in areas in which people live.

I now refer to transport noise. No one who has not lived under the flight path close to one of our major airports should take a cavalier attitude to the many thousands of people who do. This matter affects the constituents of hon. Members on both sides of the House. My hon. Friend the Member for Richmond and Barnes (Mr. Hanley), my right hon. Friend the Member for Brentford and Isleworth (Sir B. Hayhoe), my hon. and learned Friend the Member for Feltham and Heston (Mr. Ground), my hon. Friends the Members for Beaconsfield (Mr. Smith), for Esher (Mr. Taylor), for Spelthorne (Mr. Wilshire), for Windsor and Maidenhead (Sir A. Glyn), for Fulham (Mr. Carrington) and others around Heathrow, not to mention those around Gatwick, have been active in the matter, as has the hon. Member for Tooting (Mr. Cox). Aircraft noise is a major social evil in communities that are affected by it. It is not just a cause for cranks and nuts. It affects ordinary, sensible people. It spoils their enjoyment of their homes and gardens and interferes with the work of offices, schools, hospitals and churches. As I have said, it makes some people ill. We have to do more about it.

The hon. Member for Stoke-on-Trent, North (Ms. Walley) implied that the Government had no credibility in dealing with the problem of aircraft noise. She was kind enough to allow me to intervene, and I pointed out that the Conservative Government had stopped the fifth terminal, stopped the Heathrow-Gatwick helicopter link when the M25 motorway was completed, and sharply curtailed the number of night flights at Heathrow. That was done by my right hon. Friend the Member for Cirencester and Tewkesbury (Mr. Ridley) some years ago. His decision was endorsed and repeated by successive Secretaries of State for Transport, my right hon. Friend the Member for Southend, West (Mr. Channon) and my right hon. Friend the Member for Hertsmere (Mr. Parkinson), the present Secretary of State.

The hon. Member for Leicester, East pointed out--it was perfectly true-- that the incoming Conservative Government in 1979 approved the construction of the fourth terminal at Heathrow. But that was already well included in the governmental pipeline by the time the change of power in June 1979 took place. On 22 February 1978 Lord Balfour of Inchyre asked Her Majesty's Government

"when it is expected that the public inquiry into the proposed construction of a fourth terminal building at Heathrow Airport will commence".

Lord Oram, a Minister in the then Labour Government in February 1978 replied :

"the public inquiry is expected to begin at the end of May," back in 1978--

"but it is not possible to say how long it will last. Assuming approval of the fourth terminal project, it would be for the British Airports Authority to decide when building should commence."--[ Official Report, House of Lords, 22 February 1978 ; Vol. 389, c. 157.]

Column 1060

Following that, on 19 July 1978 the Earl of Cork asked Her Majesty's Government

"by what date, if a fourth terminal should be constructed at Heathrow, all four terminals at that airport may be expected to be fully operational."

Lord Winterbottom, on behalf of the Labour Government replied : "Subject to the outcome of the public inquiry, the British Airports Authority expect that the fourth terminal might be opened in 1983".--[ Official Report, House of Lords, 19 July 1978 ; Vol. 395, c. 315.] In other words, there was a clear intention in the governmental pipeline for that approval and for the opening of the fourth terminal to take place as far back as 1978. I was merely making the point that I had challenged the hon. Member for Stoke -on-Trent, North to name one thing that the Labour Government had done to contain the problem of aircraft noise at Heathrow. So far she has not done so ; perhaps she will be able to say something about it when she winds up the debate for the Opposition.

We in the House must maintain a constant lobby to protect our constituents from aircraft noise. Only through Parliament and Government can people be protected. It is not the lobbies, the residents' associations or the petitioners who make the decisions on such matters ; it is the Government who do so, and who respond to pressure and representations from hon. Members.

Without the Government, and the steps that they have already taken--and may intend to take in the future--to protect people from aircraft noise, the citizen cannot receive such protection. Under the Civil Aviation Act 1949, which was consolidated in the Civil Aviation Act 1982, the citizen cannot sue for nuisance in respect of aircraft noise. That is made clear in chapter 4 of the report by the noise review working party. Paragraph 4.25 states :

"Any consideration of the problems caused by aircraft noise has to begin with a look at the present statutory position. Unlike other forms of traffic noise, that which is caused by an aircraft is, so long as the Rules of the Air and Air Traffic Control Regulations and normal aviation practice have been observed, protected from action in respect of trespass or nuisance by ss. 76 and 77 of the Civil Aviation Act 1982".

The citizen living on the flight path cannot do other than rely on the democratic processes of Parliament and Government.

Let me point out to my hon. Friend the Parliamentary

Under-Secretary of State for the Environment, who is to reply to the debate, that that places on Governments a special duty to listen to hon. Members whose constituencies are close to airports. They have done so in the past, and I hope that they will make a point of continuing to do so.

I well remember the time when six hon. Members, including me, called on my right hon. Friend the Member for Cirencester and Tewkesbury in his room. That was in 1984, when he was Secretary of State for Transport. He was largely responsible for the planning decision on the fifth terminal, because the Secretary of State for the Environment--Lord Jenkin of Roding-- was precluded from making the decision : he had an interest in it, because he happened to live near Stansted. The key part of the decision, therefore, emanated from the Secretary of State for Transport.

When we went to see my right hon. Friend, we urged him strongly not to grant planning permission for the fifth terminal. He decided to refuse planning permission, contrary to the advice of his planning inspector at the

Column 1061

public inquiry. Accordingly, he refused permission on planning grounds--because he gave weight to the planning aspects of the facts as they were put before him, which related to the peace and quiet and the health of people living around Heathrow airport.

I would very much like a complete ban on all night flights. As I have said, they have been dramatically curtailed by the Government ; but I believe that, unless there is an emergency--I make an exception for those--there should be no night flights at all from airports in populated areas between 11 pm and 7 am. I consider that the present night hours of 11.30 pm to 6.30 am for a limited number of flights are too short.

I am glad that the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster has decided to attend the debate, because he once lived in Twickenham, and is therefore familiar with the problems of aircraft noise. Let me say to him--if I can have his attention for a moment--that all concerned should be warmly congratulated on the expansion of Manchester airport, which comes within the Duchy of Lancaster. The airport has doubled its traffic in the past six or seven years. That has proved enormously useful to people living within reach of it. It also constitutes a boost for employment in the north-west, and the increasing number of scheduled flights helps to some extent--albeit rather a limited extent--to offload traffic from the several London airports.

Helicopters, however, make a most unpleasant whirring, high-pitched noise which is completely uncivilised. I hope that planning permission is refused for a heliport in the City of London--by Cannon Street station, on a platform over the Thames. I refer my hon. Friend the Under-Secretary to my Adjournment debate on the subject on 24 May. It is entirely unreasonable to disturb thousands upon thousands of people on the ground just so that a few people can make money, and a few others can save half an hour each. We would be disturbed in the Palace of Westminster, and our Standing and Select Committees, whose rooms overlook the river--which would comprise part of the track of the flight path--would all be disrupted by the noise of helicopters flying between the City and Heathrow. Our work in the Library would also be disturbed.

There is no comparable city-centre helicopter airport anywhere in Europe. The only remotely comparable one is at Issy, a suburb of Paris which is as far from the centre of Paris as Battersea heliport is from the centre of London.

Those who want to travel in helicopters to save themselves half an hour are not always those whose time is so valuable that it is essential to save half an hour : in fact, I do not believe that anyone's time is as valuable as that. Most of those people are business men. I happen to know quite a lot of business men--a number of tycoons and millionaires. They are not people who need to dash about like scalded rabbits saving every second ; most are rather quiet and ponderous people who consider matters quite carefully. Those who agitate for a heliport are not the important, top- flight business men whose time is enormously valuable, but the mark 2 business men who want to brag to their wives, or possibly to their children, that they have been up in a helicopter. There is very little more to it than that. I hope that the proposal for a heliport near the City will be shot down, and shot down hard.

So far, we have not had much discussion about motor cycle noise. There was a reference to silencers for cars ; I

Column 1062

hope that the Government will consider improving silencers for motor cycles, which make a most annoying noise, disturbing large numbers of people.

Burglar alarms on houses go on and on, causing annoyance out of all proportion to their use. It ought to be compulsory to fit them with time switches so that they go off after 15 or 20 minutes : that is quite sufficient time for neighbours, the police or even dogs to be alerted.

I believe that noise is a terrible nuisance for large numbers of people. I welcome this debate, the report of the working party and the extensive references to noise in the environment White Paper published by the Secretary of State a few weeks ago. I hope that all this heralds action by the Government in the near future, and I hope to hear more about it later tonight.

8.39 pm

Mr. Hugo Summerson (Walthamstow) : I apologise to my hon. Friend the Minister for the Environment and Countryside in his absence that I was not here for his opening remarks. I was detained in my office. I welcome the Government's proposals. They go some way at least to meeting people's legitimate concerns, particularly on noise. I hope that we shall all be able to build on them. The idea of a pilot quiet neighbourhood scheme is excellent, although I have reservations about how it is to be enforced, especially as those who continually cause a nuisance are normally rather unpleasant and selfish people. We heard from the hon. Member for Tooting (Mr. Cox) how a constituent of his was almost driven mad and to despair by a noisy neighbour. We all have examples of such people in our constituencies. I have several examples from my constituency.

Last summer--that long, hot summer--many people in Pearl road were almost driven mad by the activities of one family. It is extraordinary that just one family can upset the residents of an entire street. Pearl road is normally a quiet, residential street. A family came in from outside to a house which, I believe, was taken by a neighbouring local authority. I suspect that it was a problem family to begin with and that the neighbouring authority thought that it had found a good way of getting rid of the problem. We had endless trouble all through last summer because of the selfish activities of that family. I am happy to say that they have gone now, and good riddance.

Unfortunately, my constituents in that road are now suffering again through the activities of a firm that works on motor cycles. It operates late into the night, sometimes until 1 am or 2 am. Motor cycles are delivered at night and people work on them, start them and rev them in the small hours of the morning with complete disregard for the fact that they are working right in the middle of a residential area. They simply do not seem to care about the other people who live there, who have their own jobs to go to and need a decent night's sleep.

Another incident took place in Morgan avenue in my constituency where, again, the activities of just one family caused a nuisance. There were young children, but they are now grown up and are young men. One of them has a motor car, which he has converted into virtually a mobile ghetto blaster. He has installed speakers all round his car. He is in the habit of arriving at his house, sometimes at3 o'clock in the morning with music belting out all over the

Next Section

Home Page