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Mr. Lang : I am sure that if the hon. Gentleman tables a question to that effect it will be answered at the appropriate time. As he is aware, the present question is not about students or the issue that he raises. As the hon. Gentleman raised the matter of education, however, he may like to know that education is one of many areas in which we in Scotland enjoy substantially higher central Government expenditure than is made south of the border--a situation which would not continue in the event of a tax- raising Scottish assembly being created.
Lothian Health Board
11. Mr. Nigel Griffiths : To ask the Secretary of State for Scotland if he will estimate the net projected savings of Lothian health board in the current financial year.
The Minister of State, Scottish Office (Mr. Michael Forsyth) : Action taken by the board should bring monthly income and expenditure into balance by the end of the year.
Mr. Griffiths : Does the Minister of State not realise that he and his vile policies have brought Lothian health board to the brink of bankruptcy and that this year it faces cuts of £12 million on top of ward and hospital closures? Why is it that, during all the years of stewardship by the Secretary of State, during which he has appointed Tory party hacks to preside over Lothian health board, there has been a financial crisis every year? When will the Minister of State encourage his right hon. and learned Friend the Secretary of State to sack Lothian health board and resign?
Mr. Forsyth : I am sorry that the hon. Gentleman should seek to attack the record of Lothian health board in that way. As he knows, there is a new hospital--St. John's--in the constituency of his hon. Friend the Member for Livingston (Mr. Cook). There has been a series of new developments in Lothian and the board has rationalised services. During the period to which the hon. Gentleman refers, more patients than ever before have been treated and the board has employed more staff who have seen their salaries go up by more in real terms. I am sorry that the hon. Gentleman seeks to decry the record of the board and to demoralise the staff and those who are doing so well in Lothian as a result of the board's work.
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Mr. Eadie : The hon. Gentleman cannot get away with the statistics that he trots out. He must be very well aware that, virtually without exception, the medical profession in Edinburgh has said that if Lothian health board persists with its cuts--not savings--it will harm hospital care in the Lothian region. The hon. Gentleman cannot deny that.Mr. Forsyth : The hon. Gentleman should be aware that the proposals by Lothian health board for rationalisation of services and bringing expenditure into line with income had the support of the area medical committee and the medical profession. That is because people recognise that the proposed closures are part of proposals to bring modern facilities and modern hospitals into being. That must be right if the board is to be able to meet the demands of the next century and beyond.
Mr. Galbraith : Does the Minister agree that part of the reason for Lothian being in trouble is that it had to spend a large amount of money on the bureaucracy to set up the internal market? By April 1991, it will have wasted£50 million on bureaucracy to set up a market which is unworkable, extremely expensive and intensely bureaucratic. Would not it be better to spend that £50 million on patient care rather than on employing more bureaucrats to push more paper around?
Mr. Forsyth : I welcome the hon. Gentleman's conversion to local management. He is arguing that decisions should be taken at local level, that patients should be allowed to go where they can best obtain treatment and that resources should follow them. That is an internal market. The independent consultants' report showed clearly that Lothian health board's problems had arisen from financial mismanagement. If anything, that vindicates our determination to ensure proper accountability of funds in the health service.
Family Housing
12. Mr. Sillars : To ask the Secretary of State for Scotland what additional resources he estimates are required by district councils to meet the needs of families who are overcrowded, living in damp houses or are homeless.
Lord James Douglas-Hamilton : If authorities consider that additional resources are required they should include their expenditure proposals in the housing capital programmes which are due to be submitted to the Scottish Office this month.
Mr. Sillars : Is the Minister aware that that is a totally unsatisfactory answer? Anyone who read the special article in The Scotsman on Saturday--I take it that the Minister did--about homelessness and various other problems could not conceivably accept that answer as a suitable reply to a crisis that especially faces our young people. Does he recall from that article that homelessness among the 16 and 17-year-old group has increased by85 per cent. in the city of Edinburgh and 95 per cent. in the city of Glasgow? It is now estimated that 10,000 young people are sleeping rough on the streets of Scotland in places known as cardboard cities. Will the Minister take emergency action this side of Christmas to bring those people into shelter?
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Lord James Douglas-Hamilton : Obviously I agree that it is unacceptable for a single person to be without a roof, That is why I strongly recommend local authorities to state whether they have emergency accommodation available. The Hamish Allan centre in Glasgow, part of which the hon. Gentleman represents, does that job extremely well. Local authorities, together with housing associations, should negotiate nomination rights. I know that Scottish Homes is now actively encouraging housing associations to provide short-term, furnished bedsit accommodation. Local authorities should look at all the possibilities as well as bringing back into use the many vacant houses in their possession.
On homelessness costs, we have come forward with an initiative to make certain that, in future, local authority costs will be borne by the taxpayers at large--the community charge payers--so that they no longer fall on rent payers alone.
Mr. Darling : Is not it a disgrace that on the streets of the capital of Scotland people are sleeping rough every night of the year? Will the Minister heed the fact that only a quarter of Edinburgh's total housing stock is in the public sector? Unless we expand the total amount of cheap, low-cost housing, the plight of the homeless is likely to get worse. We should pay attention to that problem throughout the year, not just at Christmas.
Lord James Douglas-Hamilton : A considerable proportion of Edinburgh's public housing stock is empty--more than 7 per cent., which is much higher than that of other Scottish cities. I strongly urge Edinburgh to do everything in its power to bring more of that stock into operation. Nobody should be without a roof and I believe that Edinburgh will take its statutory responsibilities seriously. If it needs more hostels, it should make that absolutely clear in the housing plan that it submits and which we shall consider urgently and sympathetically as soon as we receive it.
Mr. Maxton : Is not there something sickening about a Minister who ensures that his own family are properly housed but shows such callous disregard for the misery caused by homelessness and by dampness and overcrowding in housing? Those problems are a direct result of the cuts that the Government have imposed on housing in the past 10 years.
Is not it true that total expenditure by central Government for local government housing has been cut by more than 50 per cent? Is not it also true that the Minister voted for his right hon. Friend the Member for Henley (Mr. Heseltine)? If so, does he agree with his right hon. Friend that a much more interventionist policy should be pursued in terms of housing?
Lord James Douglas-Hamilton : I voted for the Prime Minister-- [Interruption.] Like Monty, she is a victory-winning general. Since 1979 we have increased resources by 7 per cent., whereas the Labour party reduced resources by no less than 36 per cent. I do not believe that it is necessarily appropriate to take responsibilities away from local authorities. Given that they take those responsibilities seriously, we shall respond quickly and effectively to their requests in relation to housing.
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Natural Heritage Agency
13. Mrs. Fyfe : To ask the Secretary of State for Scotland what resources will be allocated to the planned natural heritage agency ; and if he will list its responsibilities.
Lord James Douglas-Hamilton : Scottish Natural Heritage is expected to come into being only in 1992 and therefore decisions on resources for it will be taken in next year's public expenditure survey.
Mrs. Fyfe : Does the Minister accept that hon. Members on both sides of the House have expressed concern about certain species of Scottish wildlife? Would he care to tell the House whether he thinks that 1992 might be too late to take care of members of one particular species in Scotland, who have been observed pecking each other to death and only last night tearing their hair out? I refer, of course, to Scottish Conservative Members.
More seriously, may I ask whether the Minister will ensure that, when Scottish Natural Heritage is formed, it will be composed of people who genuinely care for the countryside and are genuinely representative and not merely of yet more Tory placemen?
Lord James Douglas-Hamilton : The hon. Lady has made a serious point. I accept that the people concerned must be experts in their field, and that they must form a representative cross-section. I have no doubt that, led by Magnus Magnusson--who is exceptional and outstanding in this regard--a much stronger environmental body will prove to be wholly in Scotland's interests.
Mr. Buchanan-Smith : As my hon. Friend must be aware, there is a series of proposals, including his own, concerning the future status of an important natural environment area--the Cairngorm mountains. As there is certainly no unanimity on the question of the structure that should evolve for it, would not it be better to leave decisions about the matter until Scottish Natural Heritage is established as the best body to assess and conclude what the status of that important part of Scotland should be?
Lord James Douglas-Hamilton : I have considerable sympathy with what my right hon. Friend has said. World heritage listing is a great honour for an area, but it creates strong expectations that management will be in harmony with the status of the area, which is one of the most beautiful in Europe.
Steel Industry
14. Mr. Ingram : To ask the Secretary of State for Scotland if he will make a statement on the Government's strategy for the steel industry in Scotland.
Mr. Rifkind : The Scottish Development Agency has, at my request, commissioned consultants to look at the prospects for the steel industry in Scotland. British Steel has undertaken to consider carefully any commercial opportunities which may be identified by the study.
Mr. Ingram : I am tempted to ask the Secretary of State, "Is that it?" That does not seem much of a strategy to the thousands of workers and families who will be affected by the closures at Clydesdale and Ravenscraig and who will see it as a complete sell-out of Scotland's interests.
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Has the Secretary of State seen the investment proposals put forward by the Clydesdale work force? If so, what does he propose to do about them? Is he prepared to argue the case with the board of British Steel? And if British Steel is not prepared to adopt the proposals, what action will he take to find an alternative buyer for the plant?Mr. Rifkind : I am aware of the investment proposals presented by the trade unions concerned and I understand that they are with British Steel, which will no doubt consider them. As for the question of an alternative purchaser, British Steel has said that it might, in certain circumstances, be prepared to consider an alternative purchaser for the Clydesdale works. Obviously, we shall all be anxious to know whether a purchaser comes forward who is prepared to consider such an option.
Dr. Reid : Will the Secretary of State publicly welcome the decision by the Select Committee on Trade and Industry to investigate the circumstances surrounding the proposed closure of the hot strip mill at Ravenscraig and the Clydesdale works? Will he regard that Committee not as a rival, but as a partner in all our efforts to have the decisions reversed? Will he provide the Committee with any information--however preliminary--that the Scottish Development Agency study has already produced? Will he impress on its members the need to call Sir Robert Scholey as a witness to answer the questions that he has so far refused to answer? Will he ensure that the eight or nine questions that the Ravenscraig shop stewards have already put to the Secretary of State are given to the Select Committee, which can then use its powers to ensure that Scholey answers the questions that so far he has been avoiding?
Mr. Rifkind : I am happy that the Select Committee wishes to consider the matter. My Department and I will give our full co-operation to the Committee in response to any requests that it may make.
Mr. Dewar : Will the Secretary of State confirm that the Government report arguing the case for Dalzell as a site for the British Steel plate mill development has been passed to the consultants, Arthur D. Little? On 17 October, I asked the Minister whether he was still trying to persuade British Steel to reconsider its closure plans at Ravenscraig and Clydesdale, and he replied, "Yes, I certainly am". Can he say what steps he is taking in that enterprise and whether he intends to meet Sir Robert Scholey in the immediate future?
Mr. Rifkind : The consultants have access to any information that they require and any future meetings with the chairman of British Steel will depend on whether I think such a meeting likely to be fruitful.
Council House Sales
15. Mr. Knox : To ask the Secretary of State for Scotland how many council houses have been sold to sitting tenants in Scotland since May 1979.
Lord James Douglas-Hamilton : Since April 1979, well over 200,000 public sector houses in Scotland have been sold to sitting tenants, including 148,000 by local authorities to sitting tenants.
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Mr. Knox : What percentage of the council house stock in Scotland has been sold to sitting tenants? If the figure is still significantly lower than the figure in England, what steps is the Minister taking to increase sales in Scotland?Lord James Douglas-Hamilton : The figure is 20.4 per cent. and the gap between Scotland and England is narrowing--it was 4 per cent. earlier this year and has dropped to 3.2 per cent. We are ensuring through publicity that people in Scotland are well aware of the opportunities before them and of the trial rents-to-mortgages scheme which will be extended to a total of 370,000 tenants. We are taking steps as quickly as possible.
Mr. William McKelvey : How many houses have been repossessed because the sitting tenants could no longer afford the mortgage repayments because of the Government's policies?
Lord James Douglas-Hamilton : In Britain, the figure is less than 0.1 per cent. and in Scotland it is believed to be considerably lower because, on average, market values are considerably lower in Scotland than south of the border. It is not a great problem and building societies are taking every possible step to meet the legitimate wishes of those in trouble.
Health Boards and Councils
16. Mr. David Marshall : To ask the Secretary of State for Scotland what criteria he intends using to appoint people to the new health boards and local health councils when these are set up.
Mr. Michael Forsyth : Criteria for appointments to the new health boards are included in the consultation letter issued to nominating bodies. Members of local health councils are not appointed by my right hon. and learned Friend.
Mr. Marshall : Is not the Minister ashamed of his present policy of almost always appointing Tory party lackeys to health boards, all of whom should be removed by the incoming Labour Government? How does he justify the fact that the eastern half of Glasgow, where there is a population of several hundred thousand, does not have even one local person to represent it on the Greater Glasgow health board? When will he end that disgraceful situation?
Mr. Forsyth : If the Member of Parliament for the relevant district were to nominate someone, which he has not done, we could give consideration to the matter.
Mr. Hood : I know that next Monday the Minister will be busy running round getting votes for his right hon. Friend the Prime Minister, but will he make himself available at St. Andrew's house in Edinburgh at 12 noon on Monday to receive a petition from the Clydesdale constituents opposing the elimination of acute medical services in the Clydesdale region by the closure of Law hospital in Stonehouse?
Mr. Forsyth : As the hon. Gentleman knows, the approval and principal proposal has yet to come to
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Ministers. However, I assure the hon. Gentleman that I shall take account of the representations that he and others have made about the outcome that they would like to see.Heart Surgery
17. Mr. Michael J. Martin : To ask the Secretary of State for Scotland how many patients in Scotland have suffered from heart attacks while they were on national health service waiting lists for heart surgery during the last 12 months.
Mr. Michael Forsyth : This information is not available in the form requested.
Mr. Martin : The Minister must know that many medical people in Glasgow and Scotland are extremely worried because angiogram examination waiting lists are so long and some patients have died from heart attacks before receiving examination. Surely it is sad if people die because waiting lists are too long.
Mr. Forsyth : The Government have considerably expanded the number of cardiac operations carried out in Scotland, in Edinburgh, Glasgow and Aberdeen where cardiac surgery is provided. As the hon. Gentleman will know, we have also set targets to reduce the number of premature deaths due to heart attacks by more than 1,000 per annum by the end of the century. I appreciate the hon. Gentleman's concern and shall certainly give urgent consideration to the waiting list problem.
National Health Service
18. Mr. Canavan : To ask the Secretary of State for Scotland whether he will take action to improve the national health service in Scotland ; and if he will make a statement.
Mr. Michael Forsyth : Yes. Since 1979 an extra 723,000 patients are being treated every year, an extra 8,849 nurses have been employed at salaries which have risen by more than 40 per cent. in real terms and 68 major new hospital projects have been completed. That is a record to be proud of.
Mr. Canavan : Most of the members of the Forth Valley health board are the Minister's constituents and were appointed by him. Is he aware of the public concern about the increasingly secretive and autocratic way in which the board is behaving, especially since he appointed his Tory friend Mrs. Isbister to chair the health board? Is not it high time that she and her Tory henchmen were sacked from the health board as they are undermining the national health service and threatening standards of patient care?
Mr. Forsyth : I think that it is high time the hon. Gentleman paid tribute to the real achievements of the Forth Valley health board, including the splendid new £18 million extension to Stirling royal infirmary, and to its splendid efforts to cut waiting lists and extend patient care. The hon. Gentleman should also pay tribute to the transformation that has been brought about in the Royal Scottish National hospital at Larbert in his constituency, at which mentally handicapped patients have benefited from greatly improved standards.
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