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School Buildings, Devon

11. Mr. Steen : To ask the Secretary of State for Education and Science what capital allowances were made available to Devon county council in each of the last three years for replacing old school buildings with new ones.

Mr. Fallon : Devon received capital allocations of £8.434 million in 1988-89, £14.177 million in 1989-90 and an annual capital guideline of £12.984 million in 1990-91. It is up to Devon to decide how much to spend on replacing old school buildings out of all the capital resources available to it, of which the education annual capital guideline is only a part.

Mr. Steen : Does my hon. Friend the Minister agree that there is little point in funding half a dozen or so new buildings a year when 536 existing schools are not properly maintained under the Government's guidelines for the community charge? Would not it be better to allow Devon the discretion to decide whether to build half a dozen new buildings or to maintain some of the 536 buildings that are deteriorating rapidly?

Mr. Fallon : Devon has done relatively well, not just in the current year's allocation but in the allocation for the previous two years. The annual capital guideline for this year amounts to 45 per cent. of Devon's submitted plans, whereas the national average is only 35 per cent. It is for Devon to rank its priorities under our criteria and for my right hon. and learned Friend and me then to allocate the available sums. However, I shall reflect on my hon. Friend's point.

Mr. Allason : Will my hon. Friend bear in mind the large number of Victorian and other primary schools that were built in the last century in Devon? When the bids come in from Devon county council, will he bear in mind that very large number and give the bids his sympathetic consideration?

Mr. Fallon : My hon. Friend puts his case well at almost exactly the right time of year.

Nursery Education, Normanton

12. Mr. O'Brien : To ask the Secretary of State for Education and Science what assistance he intends to offer to help nursery education in the Normanton constituency ; and if he will make a statement.

Mr. Eggar : It is up to Leeds and Wakefield local education authorities to decide the resources that they wish to devote to nursery education within the hon. Gentleman's constituency.

Mr. O'Brien : Is the Minister aware of the effect of the standard spending assessment on nursery education in Wakefield, which forms part of my constituency? Is he further aware that the rate support grant cuts of the past 10 years, the dreaded poll tax and the lack of teacher training and of a proper wages structure are having an

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effect on nursery provision in the Normanton constituency? When will the Minister stand up for nursery education and give children in families who are suffering from stress, because of unemployment and high mortgage and interest rates, the chance of early entry to the education system?

Mr. Eggar : Now, Sir. Seventy per cent. of three and four-year-olds attend nursery education in the Wakefield local education authority area. Indeed, 150,000 more children throughout the country now receive nursery education, compared with 1979. [Interruption.]

Mr. Speaker : Order. I ask the House to listen, please, to Education questions in silence.

Education Vouchers

13. Mr. David Evans : To ask the Secretary of State for Education and Science what consideration he is giving to the use of education vouchers as a means of extending choice to parents.

Mr. Kenneth Clarke : We have no plans to introduce a voucher scheme for schools. We have already extended parental choice through our policies of ensuring that schools admit pupils up to the limit of the schools' physical capacity.

Mr. Evans : I thank my right hon. and learned Friend for his reply. I presume that he remains loyal to his beliefs when it comes to choice. Does he agree that had he remained loyal last Wednesday, Back Benchers would have had the freedom to choose the leader whom they wanted—the Prime Minister?

Mr. Speaker : Order. That has nothing to do with the question on the Order Paper.

Hon. Members : Answer.

Mr. Clarke : First, the Prime Minister and I and my hon. Friend are all agreed that the purpose of education policy is to extend parental choice and then to make sure that taxpayers' money follows that choice into the schools. We have achieved that aim in the policy of education reform on which we have embarked. It makes the need to introduce vouchers—once considered—redundant. I certainly voted for the Prime Minister last Tuesday when a large number of my colleagues did not. I have absolutely no doubt that whoever succeeds the Prime Minister will adhere to the policy of improving choice in schools, putting better resources into our schools, following parental choice and raising education standards.

Mr. Nellist : Of what benefit would education vouchers be to parents who face teacher shortages, particularly in London? Did the Secretary of State see last night's television report or read in this lunchtime's Evening Standard that 1,600 teachers in London have left schools in the past two months, which has affected the education of tens of thousands of pupils? Is not it a fact that it is not education vouchers but poor pay and low morale that are the real reason why parents, pupils and teachers get a rotten deal from the Government?

Mr. Clarke : There are particular problems in London, but we shall shortly be discussing teachers' pay when we debate the Bill that is on the Order Paper for today. During the debate I shall reveal that not so many people

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have entered initial teacher training for the first time since the late 1970s. The vacancy level in our schools has come down sharply this autumn and the teacher wastage rate is very low. Therefore, we are introducing the Bill to enhance still further the attractiveness of teaching as a career and to get teachers of the quality that we require. I agree with the hon. Gentleman about one thing only : that vouchers have no relevance whatever to the important task of raising the morale of our teachers and getting teachers of the quality that we need.

Mr. Nicholas Bennett : Will my right hon. and learned Friend consider vouchers for nursery education? Low-income and one-parent families experience difficulty in finding kindergarten and nursery schools, but expansion of choice could be achieved by a voucher scheme.

Mr. Clarke : I shall consider my hon. Friend's suggestion, with others made about nursery education provision for the under-fives. We have ruled out vouchers for statutory schooling between the ages of five and 16 because of our excellent system of reform, which achieves all the purposes for which vouchers were originally devised by the inventor of that notion.

Teacher Vacancies

14. Mr. Haynes : To ask the Secretary of State for Education and Science what is his most recent estimate of teacher vacancies ; and if he will make a statement.

Mr. Fallon : My right hon. Friend the then Secretary of State published on 5 October the results of the Department's survey of teacher vacancies conducted at the beginning of September, a copy of which is in the Library. On 3 September, local education authorities reported just over 1,400 unfilled posts—very many fewer than the vacancies reported in January. Those results are encouraging and show that our measures to improve teacher recruitment and retention are being effective.

Mr. Haynes : That is a terrible record for this Government. I want to know whether every child will have a fully trained teacher. Come on, let us have an answer.

Mr. Fallon rose——

Several Hon. Members rose——

Mr. Speaker : Order. There are four minutes to go before Prime Minister's Question Time.

Mr. Fallon : The hon. Gentleman's education authority of Nottinghamshire had 138 vacancies last January. In September, it had only five.

Mr. Harry Greenway : Will my hon. Friend reject the constant attacks of the Labour party and its allies on the teaching profession and accept that teachers in post are as good as they have ever been and that they give wonderful service to our children, despite the Labour party's attacks?

Mr. Fallon : It is important that the Labour party should cease to denigrate the profession. The vacancy rate is 1.8 per cent., which is one of the lowest of any profession.

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University Teachers (Morale)

15. Mr. Kirkwood : To ask the Secretary of State for Education and Science what representations he has had from university teachers about their current state of morale.

Mr. Alan Howarth : My right hon. Friend the then Secretary of State received from the Association of University Teachers a copy of its autumn 1990 publication, "Goodwill Under Stress". I met a delegation from the AUT on 20 November. We had a friendly and useful discussions about a range of issues. I pay tribute to the staff of the universities for the quality of tutorial and pastoral care that they give students in the United Kingdom.

Mr. Kirkwood : Does the Minister accept that the AUT document clearly shows that in the past 10 years university teachers have been overworked, undervalued and underpaid? Is not it highly significant that when Sir Edward Parkes, the chairman of the Committee of Vice-Chancellors and Principals, was asked to comment on the resignation of the Prime Minister, he said that in the past 10 years too much of the energy of academic staff had been devoted to damage limitation? He further said that universities would regard the demise of the Thatcher years without regret.

Mr. Howarth : I know of no one who denigrates university teachers or who holds them in less than full respect. I very much hope that the hon. Gentleman does not disregard them. In the period during which my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister has held office, there has been an increase of no less than 40 per cent. in the number of young people who have had the opportunity to participate in higher education. That is only one of the remarkable achievements under the inspired leadership of my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister.

Mr. Dickens : Would not morale in the teaching profession be greatly improved if we identified weaknesses in teachers so that they could be given more training in that direction? Would not a good appraisal system produce those goods? We need to appraise teachers, weed out bad ones and help the good teachers more.

Mr. Howarth : As my hon. Friend knows, appraisal schemes are under active consideration by local education authorities all over the country and our policy is moving forward in that regard. Equally, higher education institutions are introducing their own appraisal systems. Of course, it is right that those who are performing outstanding work should have their performance recognised and that should be reflected in pay scales.

PRIME MINISTER

Engagements

Q1. Mr. Haselhurst : To ask the Prime Minister if she will list her official engagements for Tuesday 27 November.

The Prime Minister (Mrs. Margaret Thatcher) : Mr. Speaker—[Hon. Members : "Hear, hear."] Mr. Speaker, this morning I had a number of meetings. After my duties

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in this House, I shall continue to reply to some of the 30,000 letters that have so far been delivered to Downing street in the past few days.

Mr. Haselhurst : If this is to be the last occasion on which my right hon. Friend answers questions from the Dispatch Box, may I express the appreciation of Conservative Members—[Hon. Members : "Oh."]—and, I hope, of the whole House, for the skill, command and courtesy with which she has dealt with questions over the past 11 years?

Is my right hon. Friend aware that Stansted airport's new terminal is to open in March next year, that the main roads serving it will not be available until 1995 and that the rail links serving it will not be of adequate capacity until that same year? Does my right hon. Friend agree that, if we are to get more public acceptance among communities that have major developments thrust upon them, it would be better if essential infrastructure came sooner rather than later?

The Prime Minister : I am grateful to my hon. Friend for his kind words. Stansted airport is close to the M11. I understand that the British Airways Authority is building a dual carriageway to connect the new terminal to the M11 and that it should be ready by March next year. I understand that British Rail is building a track to connect the terminal to the Liverpool Street station line and has already ordered rolling stock. That, too, should be ready by March next year. I hope that that will satisfy the last question by my hon. Friend that I shall answer.

Mr. Kinnock : Would the Prime Minister be good enough to tell us which of the policies that she leaves to her successor she now thinks should be scrapped?

The Prime Minister : I am happy that my successor will carry on the excellent policies that have finished with the decline of socialism, brought great prosperity to this country, raised Britain's standing in the world and brought about a truly capital-owning democracy.

Mr. Kinnock : If the Prime Minister thinks that nothing should be changed, can she tell us why on earth all those now competing for her job are desperately wriggling around trying to find a way out of the poll tax trap?

The Prime Minister : On the contrary, I really rather thought that they were keeping the poll—the community charge—[Hon. Members : "Oh."]—the community charge or community policy and, whatever review they have, the result will be infinitely better than going back to the rates, which of course would be the worst of all worlds.

Mr. Kinnock : As this may conceivably be the last time that the Prime Minister answers, may I say to her that her honest approach to the poll tax is commendable? She is demonstrating that there are two, and only two, honest approaches : one is to keep the poll tax intact, as she wants, and the other is to abolish it entirely, as we shall do.

The Prime Minister : No, that is not correct. As with any new tax, one always both reviews it and continually amends it. I should have thought that the right hon. Gentleman would know that after all this time.

Dame Jill Knight : May I voice the profound regret felt by millions in this country, and thousands of millions outside, that my right hon. Friend is not to continue in her high office? Is she aware of their acknowledgement of her

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unrivalled service in turning back the tide of socialism, ending the brutal tyranny of the militants in the trade unions and re-establishing Britain as a great power? Finally, may I ask my right hon. Friend to reflect——

Hon. Members : Too long.

Mr. Speaker : Order. The hon. Lady is coming to an end.

Dame Jill Knight : Finally, may I ask my right hon. Friend to reflect with pride that a thousand years from now, when every other Member of the House is dead dust, she alone will have a hallowed place in the history books?

The Prime Minister : I am very grateful to my hon. Friend for her generous tributes I am certain that the Conservative constructive policies will continue, and that they will lead to a fourth election victory.

Mr. Molyneaux : Does the Prime Minister recall an important debate in November 1985, when relations between us were a little strained? Does she recall my addressing her thus :

Is the Prime Minister now aware that the vast majority of those people wish that contribution to continue?

The Prime Minister : The right hon. Gentleman is very generous indeed. I think that it will continue from the Back Benches, as it has from the Front Bench.

Mrs. Maureen Hicks : Is my right hon. Friend aware that it was as a result of her unique vision at the helm that the voters in my constituency, after 40 years, rejected Labour—in her words, rejecting "windy rhetoric" from the Leader of the Opposition—because they saw in her unique qualities of leadership? May I please take this opportunity—on behalf of my constituents, who feel a tremendous sense of loss—to convey my sincere best wishes, and to extend a very warm invitation to Denis and herself to come and see us in Wolverhampton any time?

The Prime Minister : I thank my hon. Friend very much. I think that our policies since 1979 have built a new opportunity Britain, which can hold its head high in the world of international affairs. I am sure that those policies will continue, and we shall all pull together to ensure that they do.

Mr. Speaker : I call Mrs. Rosie Barnes.—[Interruption.]

Several Hon. Members rose——

Mr. Speaker : All right, all right, all right.

Mr. Cryer : Can't you read?

Mr. Speaker : That is very impertinent of the hon. Gentleman.

I should have called Mrs. Mahon first.

Q2. Mrs. Mahon : To ask the Prime Minister if she will list her official engagements for Tuesday 27 November.

The Prime Minister : I refer the hon. Lady to the reply that I gave some moments ago.

Mrs. Mahon : Does the Prime Minister agree with her right hon. Friend the Member for Circencester and

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Tewkesbury (Mr. Ridley), who said in the debate last Thursday that her forced resignation had been brought about by an act of treachery by some of her colleagues?

The Prime Minister : I have resigned and there will soon be a successor. I wish him well. I am sure that he will continue the policies that have been so successful for Britain and that he will continue to defeat socialism.

Mr. Donald Thompson : Will my right hon. Friend come very soon to Calder Valley, where she will find an industrious, prosperous and happy community? The people there will say to her what they have said to me all weekend—"She's been a good 'un."

The Prime Minister : I think that, after that, I must go to Calder Valley and I shall look forward to it.

Q4. Mrs. Rosie Barnes : To ask the Prime Minister if she will list her official engagements for Tuesday 27 November.

The Prime Minister : I refer the hon. Lady to the reply that I gave some moments ago.

Mrs. Barnes : May I pay a warm tribute to the Prime Minister for her courage and dignity over the past few days? Given that the leadership of the Tory party may be decided by a third ballot and by using a system of transferable second preference votes, will not the Prime Minister reconsider the merits of that system for national elections?

The Prime Minister : I am sure that the hon. Lady will understand that I am all for first past the post.

Q5. Mr. Wilshire : To ask the Prime Minister if she will list her official engagements for Tuesday 27 November.

The Prime Minister : I refer my hon. Friend to the reply that I gave some moments ago.

Mr. Wilshire : As this may be one of the last tabled questions from a Conservative Member to my right hon. Friend, may I take the opportunity to ask her whether she knows how many questions she has answered in her capacity as Prime Minister. Will she accept the heartfelt thanks of all her many friends inside and outside the House, and especially of all her friends in my constituency of Spelthorne? May I express to her and to Denis every good wish for the future, and God bless?

The Prime Minister : First, this will be the last Question Time at which I shall answer ; I do not believe in making a career of positively last appearances. I thank my hon. Friend for his kind words, especially those about my husband, and I also thank him for giving me notice of his question as I might not otherwise have known the answer. His question is the 7,498th oral question to which I have replied in 698 Question Times.

Q6. Mr. Winnick : To ask the Prime Minister if she will list her official engagements for Tuesday 27 November.

The Prime Minister : I refer the hon. Gentleman to the reply that I gave some moments ago.

Mr. Winnick : Does not the Prime Minister find it at all nauseating and hypocritical to be——

Hon. Members : You are.

Mr. Speaker : Order. Come along.

Mr. Winnick : Does not the Prime Minister find it the height of hypocrisy and nauseating to be so highly praised by Tory Members when, last week, 152 of them stabbed her in the back?

The Prime Minister : The hon. Gentleman was not exactly complimentary on my last appearance, was he? I do not find it nauseating ; I find it very refreshing.

Mr. Maxwell-Hyslop : Will my right hon. Friend, while she is still Prime Minister, write and leave signed by her a minute of the proceedings of the Heads of Government within the European Economic Community so that her successor can endeavour to protect Britain's long-term interests in the valiant and effective manner in which she has always done?

The Prime Minister : I can assure my hon. Friend that all the proceedings are well minuted and documented, and I most earnestly hope that the traditions of this House, which is the oldest democratic Parliament in the Community, will be fully upheld, because they ensure accountability to the people.

Q7. Mr. Strang : To ask the Prime Minister if she will list her official engagements for Tuesday 27 November.

The Prime Minister : I refer the hon. Gentleman to the reply that I gave some moments ago.

Mr. Strang : When the Prime Minister recalls the day when she quoted St. Francis of Assisi on the steps of Downing street, will she contemplate the increase in family poverty that resulted from her repeated refusal to increase child benefit? Will she recall the increased hardship that resulted from the 1988 social security changes? Will she think about the homeless, whose numbers have doubled since she came to power? Is she aware that Opposition

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Members represent communities some of which have still not recovered from the unprecedented rates of unemployment that she inflicted on them in the early 1980s? Those are some of the reasons why she will go down in history as the Prime Minister who rewarded the rich and punished the poor.

The Prime Minister : Perhaps the hon. Gentleman will also recall that Scotland is enjoying greater prosperity than it has ever known under any previous Government ; that there are now 2 million more jobs than there were when I took over ; and that, remembering the situation when I took office in 1979, there is much more peace in the coal industry now than there was then. We have much more peace in the coal industry, and we fought off some of the most difficult and vicious attacks, during the coal strike, that this country has ever seen. He should also recall that we have had the lowest number of strikes this year in the whole post-war period.

BILL PRESENTED

Severn Bridges

Mr. Secretary Parkinson, supported by Mr. Secretary Waddington, Mr. Secretary Wakeham, Mr. Secretary Patten, Mr. John Selwyn Gummer, Mr. Norman Lamont, Mr. Secretary Hunt, Mr. Secretary Lilley and Mr. Roger Freeman, presented a Bill to provide for the construction of a new bridge over the Severn Estuary between England and Wales and roads leading to the new bridge and associated works; to make provision for the levying of tolls in respect of use of the existing Severn bridge and the new bridge; to make other provision for and in connection with the operation of the bridges; and for connected purposes: And the same was read the First time; and ordered to be read a Second time tomorrow and to be printed. [Bill 16.]

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