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Mr. Patten : As the hon. Gentleman probably knows, we do not hold a membership list at Conservative central office. As I have already made clear, I would not wish to work shoulder to shoulder with people such as the man to whom the hon. Gentleman referred.
Opencast Mining
26. Mr. Pike : To ask the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster whether in his capacity as Chancellor he has received any representations arising from opencast mining being undertaken in Lancashire under interim development orders.
Mr. Pike : When the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster next visits the county, will he visit Facit and Britannia quarries in Bacup, where he will be appalled at the destruction taking place? Will he use every power that he has to ensure that the appropriate Minister introduces early legislation to stop that destruction and devastation taking place?
Mr. Patten : As the hon. Gentleman might anticipate, I expect to make several visits to the county in the immediate and longer-term future. As for the planning issue that he raises, I am sure that he will be aware that in a White Paper on the environment, produced under a previous Secretary of State for the Environment, we said that we intend to review the operation of the Town and
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Country Planning (Minerals) Act 1981, which will include a review of interim development orders. I understand the hon. Gentleman's concern. That is why the review is important.Mr. Mans : When my right hon. Friend next visits Lancashire to look at opencast mining, will he take the opportunity to arrange a meeting with the leader of Labour-controlled Lancashire county council to discuss the state of social services in the county and, in particular, of residential homes, many of which are of a lower standard than those in the private sector?
Mr. Speaker : Order. The question is about opencast mines.
Mr. Speaker : In Lancashire, yes.
Mr. Patten : So far as I know, there are no opencast mines on the Duchy's property--I do not think that there are any social services establishments, either--but I take seriously what my hon. Friend says. I hope to have an opportunity to point out to the leader of the Labour- controlled county council how the community charge is far too high because of the activities of the Labour group and how, alas, services do not seem to be as splendid as they should be, given the amount of money that the community charge payer pays for them.
CHURCH COMMISSIONERS
Cathedrals
27. Mr. John Marshall : To ask the right hon. Member for Selby, representing the Church Commissioners, what representations the Commissioners have made about the Government's proposal that the Department of the Environment will assist with the maintenance of cathedrals.
Mr. Michael Alison (Second Church Estates Commissioner, representing the Church Commissioners) : None, Sir, because, while they welcome the Government's proposal, the Commissioners have no direct responsibility for the maintenance of cathedrals. The primary duty of the Commissioners is the support of the full-time parochial ministry of the Church of England, in service and retirement, and the bulk of their income is used for that purpose.
Mr. Marshall : Does my right hon. Friend agree that this extra money means that there will be much less pressure on cathedrals to sell their historic treasures? It demonstrates the Government's concern for the environment and for our cultural heritage, and perhaps a bouquet should go to the right hon. Gentleman who was responsible for getting the money from the Treasury.
Mr. Alison : I am grateful for my hon. Friend's observations. The £11.5 million to be spent over the next three years by the Government and by the Secretary of State for the Environment, in particular, is very welcome, although the Church must make up more than £70 million to contribute to that source. My right hon. Friend the Chancellor of the Duchy was an important and potent force in securing that welcome financial input from the Government and we are grateful for his help.
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Mr. Frank Field : When the right hon. Gentleman is considering land that the Commissioners may sell--he rightly said that the proceeds of those sales are used to pay clergy salaries--will he consider the Commissioners' duty in relation to employment levels in different parts of the country? If it does not cause the Commissioners great expense, should not they withdraw land from areas of high employment so that Government jobs in the Ministry of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food can go to areas of high unemployment such as the one that I represent?
Mr. Alison : I naturally have much sympathy for the point that the hon. Gentleman makes, particularly in regard to the Birkenhead constituency and Merseyside, where developments that increase employment might take place. The initiative for planning applications for the use of Church Commission land must come initially from the person or unit wishing to develop land. If the Ministry of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food central scientific laboratory is projected to be at a particular locality in, say, North Yorkshire, the only way in which the Commission could stop it would be by refusing to sell the land, but the Ministry might then compulsorily purchase it. However, I personally will write to my right hon. Friend the Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Food drawing his attention to the hon. Gentleman's suggestion that the central scientific laboratory might be located away from North Yorkshire and see what happens.
Mr. Latham : I warmly welcome the fact that Government money is available to preserve the matchless heritage of our historic cathedrals, which are famous throughout the world. Will my right hon. Friend ensure that there is no diminution in the money available for English Heritage to help historic parish churches, many of which are in a serious state?
Mr. Alison : I take careful note of my hon. Friend's point. The sums available to English Heritage through the Government have been steadily increasing and are at an all-time high in the current financial year.
Church Commission (Assets)
29. Mr. Harry Greenway : To ask the right hon. Member for Selby, representing the Church Commissioners, what was the value of the assets of the Church Commission at their latest valuation ; and if he will make a statement.
Mr. Alison : As at 31 December 1989, the Church Commissioners' total assets were valued at £3,082 million, as shown in that year's annual report, of which I think my hon. Friend has a copy.
Mr. Greenway : Will my right hon. Friend congratulate the Church Commissioners on their successful investment policies over the past few years, which have benefited clergy through higher salaries and stipends? May I hope that they will do as well in coming years as they have done in recent years?
Mr. Alison : I am grateful to my hon. Friend for his reference to the successful investment policies that the Church Commissioners have been carrying out. We have more than kept ahead of inflation in terms of stipends and retirement pension levels. However, the next few years look like being a period of greater constraint on Church
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Commissioners resources. To keep as well ahead of inflation as we have in the past will be quite a tough operation. It is right to warn that colder economic winds are blowing. As always, however, we shall do our best to maintain clergy stipends and pensions at the highest possible level.HOUSE OF COMMONS
Former Prime Ministers
30. Mr. Tony Banks : To ask the Lord President of the Council what special arrangements are made in the House for the accommodation of former Prime Ministers.
The Lord President of the Council and Leader of the House of Commons (Mr. John MacGregor) : Members' rooms within the Palace and parliamentary outbuildings are allocated by the Government and Opposition parties' Whips on behalf of the Services Committee. Any special arrangements required are considered by the Accommodation and Administration Sub-Committee.
Mr. Banks : As there will be three ex-Prime Ministers in the House of Commons after the next general election perhaps we should have a special badge made for them--with crossed daggers on a blood-red background. To save the last Prime Minister expending a reported £9.5 million of her money to provide offices and a home for herself, could we offer her a suite of offices in county hall, which is empty? I am sure that she would be suitably happy there. We could all move over there as well. Now that the right hon. Lady has gone, will the right hon. Gentleman consider using county hall for offices for Members of Parliament?
Mr. MacGregor : The hon. Gentleman will be disappointed in respect of the first part of his question because he will find that things will not turn out as he suggests. As for the rest of his question, I have nothing to add to what the hon. Gentleman was told in a reply that he received from my hon. Friend the Under-Secretary of State for the Environment on 23 November.
Sir Anthony Grant : Before my right hon. Friend gets too fussed about the accommodation of former Prime Ministers, will he apply his mind to the accommodation of the present Prime Minister? Will he have a word with my right hon. Friend the Home Secretary and point out that, although we are enormously proud that my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister resides in Cambridgeshire, there is a substantial additional security cost to be borne by the poor old Cambridgeshire police?
Mr. MacGregor : The question is about accommodation in the House, which is rather different, but I will pass on my hon. Friend's remarks to my right hon. Friend the Home Secretary.
Middle East War
31. Mr. Dalyell : To ask the Lord President of the Council if he will take steps to establish a Select Committee to examine the likely ecological consequences of a war in the middle east.
Mr. MacGregor : I have no plans to do so.
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Mr. Dalyell : Is the Leader of the House sensitive to the fact that some of his parliamentary colleagues look enviously across the Atlantic at Senator Sam Nunn and his committee? In circumstances in which the Front Benches may basically agree, does the right hon. Gentleman accept that the House of Commons goes about its business in a desultory fashion? For example, when General Powell came to Committee Room 14, he talked about a possible use of nuclear weapons, fire trenches and ghastly ecological consequences from carbon dioxide emissions. Should not that subject be investigated by a Select Committee which sits at least as often as the American select committee?
Mr. MacGregor : There have been several statements and questions on these matters in the past few weeks and we shall have a further opportunity to debate them fully tomorrow. I do not think that there is a case for establishing a special Select Committee to consider that question.
Mr. Latham : Why do we need a Select Committee when every hon. Member knows perfectly well that the way for such ecological difficulties to be avoided is for Saddam Hussein to withdraw from Kuwait immediately?
Mr. MacGregor : I entirely agree with my hon. Friend.
Select Committees
32. Mr. Wallace : To ask the Lord President of the Council what consideration he has given to the recommendations of the Procedure Committee report on Select Committees ; and if he will make a statement.
Mr. MacGregor : I am considering the recommendations made by the Committee and will make a statement in due course.
Mr. Wallace : It will come as no surprise to the Lord President if I draw his attention to paragraph 271 of the Select Committee report, which states that the House is entitled to look to him to try to find a solution to the non-establishment of a Select Committee on Scottish Affairs, which is in contravention of our Standing Orders. What steps has the right hon. Gentleman taken to consult the Opposition parties to try to reach a compromise and find a way of doing something that is long overdue?
Mr. MacGregor : I have been considering the matter, although, as I have told the House, I find it difficult to envisage a way forward in the current Session. I have recently had discussions with one of the Opposition parties.
Mr. Donald Thompson : Many of us will have noted from Hansard that the Lord President had to attend the House--having cancelled constituency business--on Friday, when one or two London Members dropped in to try to change the procedures of the House to enable them to work from 9 am to 5 pm so that they can see their constituents in the evening and have the weekends off. Will my right hon. Friend bear in mind the fact that many of us regard our existing hours as sensible and reasonable?
Mr. MacGregor : I have made it clear that I am prepared to examine the whole question of procedure and hours, although I am well aware of the difficulties of achieving change. My hon. Friend has made a good point.
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In considering these matters, one must take into account the interests of all Members of the House from all backgrounds --in particular, the difficulties of hon. Members who represent constituencies a long way from Westminster. All those issues will have to be addressed.Mr. Madden : What plans does the Lord President have to tackle the vexed question of the Chairmen of several Select Committees holding a range of private commercial interests which impinge directly on their Committees' activities? Will the right hon. Gentleman accept that that creates the opportunity for abuse and may give rise to conflicts of interest, and that it is a scandal which is long overdue for attention?
Mr. MacGregor : Without accepting any of what the hon. Gentleman has said, I remind him that the matter is being looked at by a particular Committee at the moment.
Procedural Changes
33. Mr. Skinner : To ask the Lord President of the Council what discussions he has had regarding procedural changes for the House ; and if he will make a statement.
Mr. MacGregor : I have had a number of discussions relating to procedural change. I am always willing to receive and consider ideas for improvement in our procedures.
Mr. Skinner : If we change our hours of work in this place, will the Lord President consider the early-daymotion with an amendment carrying many hon. Members' signatures suggesting that any system of payment should be based on the number of hours worked and that we should clock on and clock off as happens outside? Will the right hon. Gentleman also bear it in mind that it would not be a bad idea to have full-time Members of Parliament, as 19 Tory ex-Cabinet Ministers now hold 59 directorships between them?
Mr. MacGregor : I do not think that in the House the number of hours worked or clocking on and off bear any relation to effectiveness. I sometimes think that the hon. Gentleman is a Standing Committee in himself, but I am not sure that he is any longer capable of amendment or procedural change. Such matters must also be taken into account in considering effectiveness.
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Dr. Cunningham : I thank the Leader of the House for making it clear at the outset of his tenure of office that he is willing to have a fundamental review of the hours worked in the House, a review which many of us believe is long overdue. I am ready to work constructively with the Leader of the House to see how change can be brought about and to create a consensus. Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that this House sits for far longer than almost any other western legislature, but we are not conspicuously better at producing good legislation, as the poll tax Bill makes clear?
Mr. MacGregor : On the hon. Gentleman's non-politically contentious point, I am grateful to him for the way in which he is approaching the matter and for his offer of co-operation. I certainly hope to work with him when considering procedures and hours. On a slightly wider point, if we are to be effective, it is important that we have the co-operation of all hon. Members. So often, the understandable willingness to use the rules in any way possible negates the objective of changes that are made.
Members' Cafeteria
34. Mr. Harry Greenway : To ask the Lord President of the Council what suggestions from the suggestions book in the Members' Cafeteria have been implemented ; and if he will make a statement.
Mr. MacGregor : Since the House returned from the summer recess, six comments of substance have been entered in the Members Cafeteria comments book. Three related to the rule on smoking and three asked for the provision of certain dishes or foodstuffs.
Mr. Greenway : I congratulate my right hon. Friend on the inauguration of the suggestions books. Will he assure the House that a positive view will be taken of the suggestions and, in particular, that when more rice pudding is asked for, it might be allowed?
Mr. MacGregor : I had a suspicion that my hon. Friend might ask that question. I can assure him that special efforts have been taken to ensure that it is available in large quantities today.
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