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Water Act 1989
List of powers used by the Secretary of State for Wales since taking
office
Section |Description
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3 |Payment of members of the Advisory
| Committee for Wales
20 |Acceptance of undertakings by under-
| takers
37 |General authorisation to the Director
| General to enforce the duties of water
| undertakers under this section
60 |Appointment of technical assessors and
| the designation of those appointed in
| relation to the provisions of section
| 60(4)
67 |General authorisation to the Director
| General to enforce the duties of
| sewerage undertakers under this
| section
74 and 185 |Regulations related to trade effluent
89 |The fixing of a target investment limit for
| the Government shareholding in
| Welsh Water plc
131 |General drought order
141 |Determination of the payment to be
| made to the Chairman of the
| National Rivers Authority's Welsh
| Region's Advisory Committee
Secure Accommodation
17. Mr. Rowe : To ask the Secretary of State for Wales if he will make a statement about secure accommodation for youngsters in Wales.
Mr. Nicholas Bennett : It would be premature to make a statement in advance of the findings of the present review of secure care, which it is hoped will be completed as soon as possible.
Mr. Rowe : May I start by saying what a pleasure it is that an hon. Friend who has spent many years improving the standards of behaviour and achievement of young people in my constituency has now moved to apply, I hope, the same talents to Wales? I ask my hon. Friend and other hon. Members to remember how young a 14 or 15-year-old youngster seems in his or her own acquaintance and family. Will my hon. Friend assure us that, in the review of secure accommodation for such young people, consideration will be given to the kind of support and care that those children often require?
Mr. Bennett : I thank my hon. Friend for his kind comments. I remember with affection the five years during which I taught at school in his constituency and the very good support that he gave us as a constituency Member of Parliament. I entirely agree with my hon. Friend's comments. We will take them into account in our review of secure accommodation.
Housebuilding
18. Mr. Wigley : To ask the Secretary of State for Wales what is his estimate of the number of houses built in Wales this year to date (a) by district councils and (b) by housing associations ; and if he will make a statement.
Mr. Nicholas Bennett : Provisional data on completions between January and October 1990 show that 529 dwellings were completed by local authorities and 1, 278 by housing associations.
Mr. Wigley : Does the Minister accept that those figures are absolutely appalling? The figures that he quoted for district councils compare with 200,000 dwellings a year being built in the 1970s and the acknowledged housing association need of 5,000 new dwellings a year. Is he aware that the 40,000 homeless people in Wales and the 80,000 people who are living in unfit houses just cannot wait for that level of programme to meet their needs? There needs to be an awareness in the Welsh Office that we have a housing crisis, and something must be done about it now.
Mr. Bennett : The hon. Gentleman spoils his argument by exaggerating the figures. The figures that he gave are nowhere near those that exist either for homelessness or for completions. Private sector completions in Wales in 1989 were at the highest level for 17 years. We are also concerned to increase the stock of housing available in
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Wales. Housing associations, in conjunction with Housing for Wales, are now on target for 3,000 completions for the year.Mr. Raffan : Will the Minister do his utmost to encourage local authorities in Wales to increase the amount of sheltered accommodation, as this is one of the most effective ways of reducing the amount of homelessness in Wales by enabling single elderly people to move out of two and three-bedroom council houses?
Mr. Bennett : My hon. Friend makes a very good point, not only in the number of houses released ; it is also good sense for the elderly people concerned, as it enables them to maintain their independence by living within the community without having to go into residential homes.
National Library of Wales
19. Dr. Marek : To ask the Secretary of State for Wales if he will make it his policy to publish the recommendations of the recent staff inspection report into the National Library of Wales once they have been considered by the institution.
Mr. Nicholas Bennett : It is not the practice to publish staff inspection reports and we have no plans to publish any part of the report on the National Library of Wales.
Dr. Marek : I hope that the Minister will think again. While there are clearly items in it that should be kept confidential, there other items, such as charging for exhibitions and closure of the printing press, which merit a wide discussion in the Principality before they are enacted. I hope that the Minister will think again and I ask him to think again about publishing a summary of the recommendations of the report and the actions that he proposes to take.
Mr. Bennett : I understand that this report was prepared with co- operation of the staff on the understanding that it would not be published. Therefore, I do not think that it is right to go back on the word that was given to the staff at the time. Clearly some of the issues that were addressed in the report will have to be addressed by the House at some stage and of course that will occur.
CHURCH COMMISSIONERS
Bishops' Stipends
25. Mr. Harry Greenway : To ask the right hon. Member for Selby, as representing the Church Commissions, if he has any plans to review the stipends of bishops ; and if he will make a statement.
Mr. Michael Alison (Second Church Estates Commissioner, representing the Church Commissioners) : Bishops' stipends are set annually by the Church Commissioners acting as the central stipend authority of the Church of England. They are increased by the same percentage as the average stipends of incumbents. These arrangements were last reviewed in 1985.
Mr. Greenway : When my right hon. Friend and his associates look at the stipend of bishops again will he look at the stipend of suffragan bishops? Will he look at the emoluments of suffragan bishops to see whether these could not be improved to enable these bishops better to do
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the work that they have to do? When the final cheque is sent to the Bishop of London, Dr. Graham Leonard, will they send with it a fine tribute to his excellent tenancy of the bishopric of London and express the hope that a suitable successor will be found for him?Mr. Alison : I am sure that my hon. Friend's reference to the Bishop of London, Dr. Graham Leonard, will be well received in every part of this House and that the Bishop himself will be very glad that my hon. Friend found the opportunity to make the point. On the question of the differential between the pay of suffragan and diocesan bishops, I point out that there is a genuine differential in the work that they have to do. My hon. Friend will be aware that the differential tends to be narrowed by the fact that both suffragan and diocesan bishops receive free housing and a non-contributory pension as well as the costs of their expenses and staff.
Mr. John D. Taylor : Since the Government so often advise us that increases in salaries should be related to productivity and not to the rate of inflation, will the right hon. Member take into account that there has been a marked increase in attendances at Church of England churches in the past year?
Mr. Alison : The right hon. Gentleman will be aware that the productivity of the clergy is noted in the cure of souls. If he can find an appropriate visible and tangible measure of assessing the progression of souls into the Kingdom of Heaven, we shall be glad to see it.
Henry VIII Quincentenary
26. Mr. Jessel : To ask the right hon. Member for Selby, as representing the Church Commissioners, if he will set aside funds to mark the quincentenary of the birth in 1491 of King Henry VIII.
Mr. Alison : No, Sir. The Commissioners' funds are directed to the support of the clergy of the Church of England and their widowed spouses and may be used for no other purposes without specific legislative authority.
Mr. Jessel : As the question was, of course, tabled before Christmas and as our minds are very much now on the middle east, may I remind my right hon. Friend that without King Henry VIII there might be no Church of England or Church Commissioners and that, at Hampton Court palace in my constituency, between 27 and 29 June, there will be a splendid celebration to mark the birthday of King Henry VIII?
Mr. Alison : I take careful note of the important event, mentioned by my hon. Friend, in his Twickenham constituency, at Hampton Court. I am glad that my hon. Friend has survived so many years as the admirable representative of the Twickenham constituency. I suspect that, had he been a courtier at the time of King Henry VIII, he would, through his love of music, have survived just as long. We shall all do our best to support the Hampton Court celebration of King Henry VIII's birthday.
Mr. Alton : Does the right hon. Gentleman accept that one of your illustrious predecessors, Mr. Speaker, might have lived longer had it not been for Henry VIII, a king who did not have an unblemished record?
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Mr. Alison : I am glad that the hon. Gentleman has pointed out that King Henry VIII let off missiles that were multi-headed, or whatever the correct technical term is. I am afraid that he slew a few people whom we might have preferred to have been kept alive for a little longer, even if he slew a few people whom we thought were well dead. The hon. Gentleman will be relieved to know that the Church of England nowadays is thoroughly ecumenical in outlook and, to that extent, has taken a different path from that taken by King Henry VIII.Women Deacons
27. Mr. John Marshall : To ask the right hon. Member for Selby, as representing the Church Commissioners, what assessment has been made of the financial implications of numbers seeking ordination as women deacons during the next five years.
Mr. Alison : Tentative projections of the numbers of women being ordained as deacons do not suggest the need for any significant change in the balance of the Commissioners' expenditure in future years. However, I understand that the General Synod is currently consulting dioceses on numbers, cost and deployment in the ordained ministry, including women. The Commissioners will carefully consider any implications for them flowing from this exercise.
Mr. Marshall : I thank my right hon. Friend for that answer. Is he aware that many look forward to the day when these ladies can become not only fully frocked priests but bishops of the Church?
Mr. Alison : That is an interesting, and perhaps even controversial, supplementary question. I am glad to be able to tell my hon. Friend that the decision on whether women can be ordained as priests in the Church of England is properly a decision to be reached by the new General Synod, and it has not yet had a definitive and final vote on the matter. Therefore, any reply that I gave my hon. Friend would be hypothetical.
HOUSE OF COMMONS COMMISSION
Refreshment Department Staff
28. Mr. Skinner : To ask the hon. Member for Berwick-upon-Tweed, as representing the House of Commons Commission, what discussions he has had about payments made to Refreshment Department staff ; and if he will make a statement.
Mr. A. J. Beith (On behalf of the House of Commons Commission) : The Commission has a statutory duty to ensure that the pay and other conditions of service of all staff of the House are kept broadly in line with those in the civil service.
The pay of Refreshment Department staff is linked to that of civil service industiral grades and was last increased on 1 July 1990 by £11 a week. A review of the pay and grading structures of grades linked to the industrial grades is currently being undertaken and if, as a result, changes are proposed, the trade unions will be consulted.
The Commission believes, however, that the pay of the Refreshment Department staff compares reasonably favourably with pay in the catering industry as a whole.
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Mr. Skinner : Is the hon. Gentleman suggesting that, when the staff in the Refreshment Department were paid single-time payments for coming to the Houses of Parliament on Christmas eve and new year's eve, without a proper unsocial hours payment, that was in accordance with the practices of other civil service Departments and catering establishments outside? I suggest that the hon. Gentleman has immediate discussions with the trades unions concerned, makes retrospective payments for those two days at double time, and makes sure that it does not happen again.
Mr. Beith : A small number of Refreshment Department staff manned outlets in the House as a result of a request from the staff side of the Whitley council, on account of the number of members of staff of other Departments, and of hon. Members, who were working on those days. There has been, as far as I know, no request from the trade unions for alternative arrangements.
Child Care
29. Mr. Cohen : To ask the hon. Member for Berwick-upon-Tweed, as representing the House of Commons Commission, if he will make a statement on child care provision for members of staff.
Mr. Beith : The Commission is awaiting the advice of the Select Committee on House of Commons (Services) on the results of a feasibility study undertaken by the Administration Department into the possible provision of child care facilities, either on-site or in conjunction with other public services in the Westminster area, for the children of Members, their staff and the staff of the House. I understand that the Services Committee will be considering its response to the study in early February and I expect the Commission to consider the matter shortly thereafter.
Mr. Cohen : In the feasibility study of the Administration Department, there is no real barrier to the provision of child care. The problem is lack of political will. When the gymnasium recently vacated its room--a very large room with washing facilities which were ideal for a creche--why was that not handed over for a creche on that occasion, as recommended by the local branch of the Transport and General Workers Union? When will this Parliament become a decent employer and provide proper facilities for children?
Mr. Beith : I have a great deal of sympathy with the case that the hon. Gentleman is advancing. One of the reasons why the former gymnasium area was not considered suitable is that it has no access to any outside area, which is normal when providing play facilities for children. These matters are under discussion. The complicated nature of the discussions that have had to take place illustrates the case for the reforms that we discussed last Thursday.
Sitting Hours
30. Mr. Allen : To ask the hon. Member for Berwick-upon-Tweed, as representing the House of Commons Commission, what is the current cost in wages and salaries of the House sitting after 7 pm ; and if he will make a statement.
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Mr. Beith : The rates of night duty payments to non-industrial staff required to be on regular duty as a result of evening sittings of the House are set out in the Commission's annual report. Industrial staff are paid at appropriate overtime rates.The financial information systems now available, to which I referred in the debate last Thursday on the Ibbs report-- Official Report, 17 January 1991, column 1049--do not make it possible at present to identify without disproportionate cost the total wage and salary costs directly attributable to sitting after 7 pm.
Mr. Allen : The hon. Member will be aware that there is now considerable interest in getting some more sensible hours in this place. Has he in his travels discussed with members of staff their views on having, for example, a regular 12 to 7 pm sitting of this House so that they could get home at a reasonable time?
Mr. Beith : I have found this to be a more common subject among Members than among the staff of the House, who are always very ready to provide the services that the House needs at whatever hours it chooses to sit. I have a great deal of personal sympathy with the hon. Member, but my job as a Commissioner is to ensure that the House is staffed at the hours it chooses to sit, whatever they may be.
Refreshment Department (Profit Sharing)
31. Mr. Tony Banks : To ask the hon. Member for
Berwick-upon-Tweed, as representing the House of Commons Commission, if he has any plans for profit sharing amongst the staff in the Refreshment Department.
Mr. Beith : The House of Commons Commission has a statutory obligation, as I have reminded the House, to keep the pay and conditions of its staff in line with those of the civil service ; and I understand that their current conditions make no provision for profit sharing. Given that much of the staff costs and administrative overheads of the Refreshment Department is met from the House of Commons administration vote, it is debatable whether the trading fund's accumulated surplus can be counted as a profit. The long-term financial future of the Refreshment Department is under active consideration by the Commission.
Mr. Banks : Then why cannot we change the conditions? Everyone in this House knows how hard the staff in the kiosk work, particularly over the Christmas period. One sees Members going away with wheelbarrows full of sticky comestibles to bribe their constituents, their friends and the Conservative party. Is it not about time that we started treating our staff decently and that we stopped taking advantage of them?
Mr. Beith : I agree that the staff in the kiosk worked very hard over the Christmas period. The Commission is constrained by a statutory duty to keep pay broadly in line with civil service conditions, but I shall ensure that the hon. Member's suggestion is again looked at to see whether in any way it can be pursued.
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HOUSE OF COMMONS
Sitting Hours
33. Mr. Allen : To ask the Lord President of the Council if he will make a statement on the progress of his review of the hours of sitting of the House.
The Lord President of the Council and Leader of the House of Commons (Mr. John MacGregor) : I am considering how best to take thematter forward.
Mr. Allen : I wonder whether I could encourage the Lord President to be a little more forthcoming? What steps does he see having to be taken between our current position and eventually arriving at some sort of sensible hours, again perhaps from 12 to 7 pm with an automatic closure? Has he mapped out in his own mind any steps or obstacles that need to be overcome?
Mr. MacGregor : I have had discussions with many Members and also with the Chairman of the Committee on Procedure. It is very clear from those, and indeed from the public debate since this matter was recently re- raised, that there is a wide difference of views in the House about these issues. On the broader issues, it is important that I should look at how widely to take it and at exactly what method to use to enable all Members to express their views. In regard to immediate steps, one thing that can be done to which I have attached priority is the setting up of the European Standing Committees which will certainly ease the pressures on the Chamber in regard to late hours. I hope that the hon. Member will support what we shall try to do tomorrow night.
Mr. Holt : Would my right hon. Friend care to report that when an experiment not too many years ago involved an alteration in sitting hours, it was abandoned in the best interests of what we are here to do, which is to legislate for the country?
Mr. MacGregor : As my hon. Friend suggests, there are wide differences of view. Any step that is taken needs to have the full co- operation of the House, or it will be ineffective.
Dr. Cunningham : I welcome hearing that the Leader of the House wants to take forward the reform of the sitting hours of the House. With that in mind, will he publish a Green Paper or place in the Library a comparative study of the hours of sitting and the methods of work of other legislatures in western democracies?
Mr. MacGregor : The hon. Gentleman makes a fair point. In considering how to take any reform forward, I have been contemplating how we might examine some of the issues that are relevant to the House that arise in other legislatures. We must be careful, because it is not always possible to translate back to the House what other legislatures do.
Mr. Favell : My right hon. Friend has probably heard much from lady Members representing London constituencies, who would like to work between 12 noon and 6 or 7pm. What of the wives of Members who represent northern constituencies, who are working in the north and whose jobs do not permit them to come to London during the working week? The fear of many hon. Members, such as myself, who represent northern constituencies, is that if
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we have normal office hours we shall work for five days a week and the recesses will become shorter. That will mean that we shall have less time with our families and less time to spend with our constituents.Mr. MacGregor : It is striking that that point of view has been expressed by hon. Members on both sides of the House since the proposal was first aired.
Visitors
34. Mr. Tony Banks : To ask the Lord President of the Council if he has any proposals for improving facilities for visitors to the House.
Mr. MacGregor : Arrangements to speed up access for line-of-route visitors and to afford them protection from the weather while they wait are now in place. The Catering Sub-Committee has made certain proposals in relation to catering for visitors to Parliament that are to be considered in the near future by the Services Committee. Consideration is also being given to the special needs of disabled visitors to the House.
Mr. Banks : The entire House will look forward to the proposals being put before it. Is it not a fact, however, that, as things stand, this Parliament treats its visitors far worse than perhaps any other Parliament in the world, although I must confess that I do not know what conditions are like in Baghdad at present? Would it not be possible to use Westminster Hall--I have put this question to the Lord President before--where seats could be provided? Cover and necessary access to toilets and refreshment facilities could be made available. We must start making visitors welcome to this place rather than treating them like pariahs.
Mr. MacGregor : Quite a few steps have been taken, especially in respect of the disabled. I am keen to see what more can be done. The hon. Gentleman will know that mass lobbies of the disabled are permitted access to Westminster Hall. That is obviously a carefully controlled situation. I understand that previous studies have suggested that wider use of the facility could raise certain security problems.
Mr. Devlin : Is it not the case that in years gone by Westminster Hall was used extensively for the purpose of shopping and for providing facilities both for Members and for city merchants? Why is it not possible for those arrangements to be reinstituted, with a proper bookshop, proper gift and souvenir facilities, suitable waiting areas and appropriate televison areas and other areas in which our constituents, out of the rain and snow, could wait to see us?
Mr. MacGregor : I am not sure that all hon. Members would welcome great shopping parades in Westminster Hall. In phase 1 of the new parliamentary building, there will be limited shopping and kiosk facilities.
Office Heating
35. Mr. Cohen : To ask the Lord President of the Council if he will make arrangements to keep the offices of Members and their staffs heated during recesses.
Mr. MacGregor : Heating is already provided during recesses.
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Mr. Cohen : Were not the offices of Members and their staffs, as well as the Corridors, appallingly cold during the recent winter recess and overbearingly hot during the summer recess? Are not these conditions the result of a lack of proper ventilation? Surely the fact that the majority of Members do not attend the House during the recess is no reason why those who do, and their staffs, should freeze or fry.
Mr. MacGregor : I think that some of the difficulties arising from heat in the summer and cold in the winter are due to the nature of the building, most of which was constructed before the introduction of modern facilities. In that respect, the new parliamentary building will be quite different.
However, heating is provided during recesses. Sometimes problems are due to the breakdown of specific pieces of equipment.
Wheelchair Access
36. Mr. Janner : To ask the Lord President of the Council whether he will carry out a survey of wheelchair access in the Palace of Westminister.
Mr.MacGregor : The parliamentary works officer is carrying out feasibility studies into a number of proposals to improve wheelchair access --proposals which were received last month from the right hon. Member for Stoke-on-Trent, South (Mr. Ashley), chairman of the all-party disablement group. Once these studies have been completed, the results will be forwarded to the Accommodation and Administration Sub-Committee for its consideration.
Mr. Janner : Can the Leader of the House assure hon. Members that steps will be taken swiftly to make these premises accessible to people in wheelchairs? In the mean- time, will he please arrange to have railings provided at the steps leading down to the Committee Rooms off Westminster Hall? It is well known that a distinguished Peer going to a meeting two weeks ago fell. Indeed, he was very lucky not to be severely injured.
Mr. MacGregor : That is one of the access improvements currently being considered following suggestions from the hon. and learned Member. These relate to the Grand Committee Room, the Jubilee Room and the Interview Rooms.
Souvenir Kiosk
37. Mr. Butler : To ask the Lord President of the Council if he has any plans to improve the access of visitors to the Refreshment Department shop.
Mr. MacGregor : There are no current plans to do so.
Mr. Butler : I hope that my right hon. Friend will reconsider this matter. When one has a party of visitors from one's constituency it is very difficult to take them in small groups to the shop.
Mr. MacGregor : There are certain advantages in having the shop located where it is. In particular, the current location means that people going there have to be taken in by an hon. Member. When phase one of the new parliamentary building comes into operation it will have a branch kiosk.
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The Gulf
38. Mr. Dalyell : To ask the Lord President of the Council what steps he took to discover the opinions of hon. Members before giving his answer to the hon. Member for Rutland and Melton (Mr. Latham) on the ecological consequences of a Gulf war on 10 December, Official Report, column 658.
Mr. MacGregor : It was not necessary to do so.
Mr. Dalyell : Is not the right hon. Gentleman's answer a symptom of the difficulties that this House faces when the two Front Benches are agreed on a course of action? In the light of this difficulty, may we ask for consideration of an amendment in the name of my hon. Friend the Member for Bradford, South (Mr. Cryer) expressing the minority point of view?
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Mr. Speaker : What does that have to do with this question?
Mr. MacGregor : The point made before Christmas was that, as my hon. Friend the Member for Rutland and Melton (Mr. Latham) said, ecological difficulties in the Gulf can be avoided if Saddam Hussein withdraws from Kuwait immediately. I saw no need for wider consultation towards agreement with that view, as it had already been expressed very clearly in votes in this House.
Statutory Instruments &c.
Ordered,
That the draft General Lighthouse Authorities (Beacons : Hyperbolic Systems) Order 1990 be referred to a Standing Committee on Statutory Instruments, &c.-- [John M. Taylor.]
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