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dimension and the impact on the quality of life of our people as a whole which the current transport circumstances inevitably produce. For millions of our fellow citizens, particularly in the south-east but also to some extent in every town and city across the land, the sheer growth in the volume of traffic as a consequence of the increasing prosperity of the country has brought major problems, frustration, congestion and irritation. I have no doubt that, in the months and years to come, that environmental dimension--the implications for the quality of life of people arising out of the huge and increasing volume of transport that the country will experience--will capture our attention to an even greater extent than in the past.For some time I have been conscious of what I can describe only as a rather sterile debate as between road and rail transport and the priorities that should be attached to either. That debate is often conducted on a rather superficial level. Only last week, when some journalists discovered that I regularly travel by train from Edinburgh to London, I was immediately declared to be a new champion of the railways. No doubt, the discovery that I flew down to Heathrow this morning will be a cause of depression to the same commentators. In fact, like the vast majority of our fellow citizens, I choose road, rail or air transport depending on convenience and cost. That is the only sensible basis on which to expect the public to choose their method of transport.
Mr. Richard Holt (Langbaurgh) : Although I am delighted to hear that my right hon and learned Friend travels to Scotland by air and train, has he ever done so by road? What was his experience?
Mr. Rifkind : I have travelled regularly by road. On most occasions I enjoyed the experience enormously, but there are occasional exceptions to that general principle. My hon. Friend must speculate as to when they are likely to have been.
There will be increased commercial opportunities for the use of the rail network. That would clearly be beneficial to the country as a whole. One of the great delights in the past few years has been the enormous increase in the number of railway stations which have been opened or reopened under the present Government. That process is opening a new chapter in railway history. However, I am conscious also that nine times as many people use the roads as passengers and for freight. Therefore, any sensible investment policy must reflect both requirements of our national infrastructure.
Mr. Robert Hughes (Aberdeen, North) : What concerns many people about the rail-road debate is that British rail appears--in the north of Scotland, at any rate--to be throwing aside opportunities to increase rail freight. It also seems to be throwing aside opportunities to retain passenger transport. Does the Secretary of State accept that one of the problems in Aberdeen is that British Rail is busy cutting its through services to London while at the same time claiming that there is no need for electrification between Aberdeen and Edinburgh because we shall have a better service? How can that be so when it is destroying conditions to improve services?
Mr. Rifkind : The hon. Gentleman's description of what is happening is unnecessarily alarmist. He referred to freight services and one is obviously aware of the problems
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faced by Speedlink, and British Rail's current examination of them. The way in which British Rail is finding alternative ways of carrying freight on the network, which has been traditionally carried by Speedlink, is particularly encouraging. No doubt, that will be welcomed. For all services--both passenger and freight--it is necessary for British Rail to identify not only the public interest, but the proper use of what will always be finite resources. The hon. Gentleman knows that that is the only logical basis on which these matters can be considered.I recognise that, increasingly, the debate on transport cannot be conducted purely at the national level. If there was ever a theme to which both the European dimension and the wider international dimension are relevant, it is transport. While the Government continue--as we shall--to emphasise the liberalisation of transport in the public interest, the debate will increasingly be conducted on both the European and the wider levels because that is the appropriate way to make progress in the interests of the public as a whole.
The purpose of the Bill is to save lives--it is as simple as that. Many of its provisions will make an important contribution towards continuing the significant improvements in road safety that we have seen in recent years. Although there has been considerable progress. I am conscious that much remains to be done. Nevertheless, it is right to recognise what has been achieved in the past 10 years. There is some comfort in the fact that, since the 1960s, despite a 250 per cent. increase in the volume of traffic on our roads, the number of fatalities has been substantially reduced from 8,000 per year to 5, 000 per year. If we compared the United Kingdom's achievements with the figures for most other comparable European countries, again, some comfort can be taken from what has been achieved here in the past 10 or 15 years. The casualty rate in the United Kingdom is 9.2 deaths for every 100,000 persons. In the western part of Germany--the old Federal Republic--the figure is 13.4 per 100,000, while in France it is 20.6, in Spain it is 21.1 and in Portugal it is 33.2.
Mr. Conal Gregory (York) : I congratulate my right hon. and learned Friend on his new and elevated position as Secretary of State for Transport. He has made a telling point about comparisons with other countries. Will he confirm that Australia and Scandinavia have also reduced their fatalities by opting for random breath testing? Will my right hon. and learned Friend use the opportunity of his introductory remarks now, as we come towards the Christmas festivities, to state that he accepts that logic and the fact that more than 91 per cent. of people have said in opinion polls that they would support a Government who introduced random breath tests?
Mr. Rifkind : I acknowledge the progress that has been made in Australia, although I understand that that country still has a higher casualty rate than the United Kingdom. Random breath testing is a difficult and sensitive issue. It is right constantly to consider the experience of other countries, and it is important to remember that the existing legislation permits the police a wide discretion--which is virtually identical to random breath testing. At present, any police officer in the exercise of his duty can require a vehicle to stop. If the police officer then has any reason to believe that that vehicle, which might have been stopped randomly, is being driven by
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someone under the influence of alcohol, the police officer can require a test to be taken. Therefore, there is an enormously wide discretion at present. However, I wish to continue to study the experience of other countries, which have different statutes, to see whether anything further can be learnt from their experiences.Mr. Robert Hughes rose-- Mr. Rifkind : If the hon. Gentleman will forgive me, I shall not give way because I am conscious of the time and I have given way to him already. No doubt he will make his comments later, if he catches your eye, Mr. Deputy Speaker.
Mr. Robert Hughes : On this very point--
Mr. Rifkind : No. I shall not give way on this point.
I have made certain comparisons with other European countries which are favourable to the United Kingdom. However, I am conscious that the current position remains extremely serious. Every day, 15 people are killed on our roads and 170 are seriously injured. It is against that background that the Government adopted the target of seeking to reduce those casualties by a full one third by the end of the decade.
The proposals in part I of the Bill have the potential to make a valuable contribution to achieving that target. They implement the recommendations of the White Paper which was published in February 1989. This was the Government's response to the recommendations of the review of road traffic law, which was carried out under the chairmanship of Dr. Peter North. I pay tribute to Dr. North and to the review, which played an important part not only in the Government's thinking but in the wider public debate.
The law has a vital role to play in promoting the safety of all road users, whether as drivers, passengers, riders or pedestrians. It provides for those who infringe or threaten the safety of others to be dealt with. The knowledge that such action will be taken means a higher overall standard of driving and riding behaviour. There is no doubt that without good traffic law and its robust enforcement the toll on our roads would be very much higher. If we can improve and update that law and make its enforcement even more effective, there is every prospect that the casualty rate can be reduced. That is what the first part of the Bill is intended to do.
Dr. Norman A. Godman (Greenock and Port Glasgow) : First, I offer my congratulations to the Secretary of State on his sideways transfer. Does he agree that causing death by dangerous or careless driving when under the influence of drink or drugs has often led to amazingly light sentences being imposed by sheriffs? I exclude Greenock sheriffs from that criticism. Can the Secretary of State assure me that drivers who are convicted of culpable homicide and dreadful offences of this kind will receive the heavy sentences that they so manifestly deserve?
Mr. Rifkind : A person convicted of culpable homicide in Scotland could be subject to any sentence because, so far as I am aware, there is no statutory limit. Sentences for those guilty of causing death by dangerous or drunken driving are dealt with in the Bill, under which a maximum penalty of five years will be available to the courts if that is judged appropriate.
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We are attacking the problem on three fronts. First, we are reforming the main road traffic offences. We are determined to crack down on bad driving. It has not always proved possible in the past in England and Wales to secure convictions for the existing offences of reckless driving and causing death by reckless driving because of the need for juries to be satisfied as to the driver's state of mind at the time the act of bad driving took place. We are therefore creating new offences which should more satisfactorily permit convictions for bad driving. We are also creating a new offence to deal more effectively with the drunk driver who drives badly and kills. There is never any excuse for drink-driving. A drunk driver who kills in these circumstances must expect the most severe penalty. We are also plugging a gap in the law with a new offence in England and Wales to deal with the vandals who put lives at risk by placing or throwing objects such as concrete blocks on to roads. If my Scottish colleagues are interested to know why that does not apply in Scotland, it is because the existing law on malicious mischief adequately deals with such matters.The second area of action is penalties. The current offence of causing death by reckless driving already carries a maximum penalty of five years' imprisonment. That will be retained for the new dangerous driving offence where death is caused. There will be be a similar penalty for the other new offence of causing death when under the influence of drink or drugs. Offences of this gravity should be severely punished.
Mr. Prescott : I am grateful for what the Secretary of State has said and I add my congratulations to him on his new appointment. He has started well, but I shall say more about that later. As Dr. North was concerned about deaths on the road which are caused by fatigue--not only by drink and drugs--does the Secretary of State intend to include provisions on fatigue in the Bill?
Mr. Rifkind : I should like to hear the hon. Gentleman state with slightly greater care exactly what he has in mind. We did not think it appropriate to create an offence of careless driving that causes death because it could involve sentences which might be disproportionate to the gravity of the behaviour, that is, the careless nature of the driving of the individual concerned. If the hon. Gentleman will expand on that point, I will deal with it in more detail.
In other circumstances the maximum penalty for the new dangerous driving offence will be two years in prison--again the same as for the current reckless driving offence. We shall also introduce two new sentencing options, which should have a major effect on the behaviour of road users. People convicted of the most serious driving offences will have to take a much tougher driving test before being allowed back on the road at the end of a period of disqualification. We are also providing for an experiment in rehabilitation courses for offenders convicted for drink-driving offences. Experience from experiments abroad has suggested that such schemes, which encourage offenders to rethink their attitudes to drinking and driving, can have a significant effect on rates of reoffending. There will be powers to mount a national scheme if the experiment proves successful.
Finally, there are measures to improve enforcement of the law through the more effective use of camera
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technology to detect speeding and red light jumping offences. Cameras will be placed where road safety benefits can be maximised. Their presence should have a major deterrent effect. And they could lead to a reduction of as much as 5 per cent. in road accidents.Sir Anthony Grant (Cambridgeshire, South-West) : On technological aids, as I understand it, the aim of the Bill is to give the Secretary of State powers to introduce their use and to rule on the admissibility of evidence from them. Is he aware that one of the most serious causes of accidents is driving too close behind the car in front? Is he further aware that technological aids are available to give a warning that someone is driving too close or to prevent it? Such aids are not mentioned in the Bill and my right hon. and learned Friend may not wish to answer now, but will he consider the possibility of making the clause sufficiently wide to enable provision for such technological aids to be incorporated in the Bill? I understand that they are available abroad.
Mr. Rifkind : I shall be happy to look into the matter raised by my hon. Friend. Technology constantly produces new opportunities. If new devices can make a significant contribution to saving lives and preventing injury, we shall consider them in a constructive spirit. I thank my hon. Friend for raising that point.
Before I turn to part II of the Bill, I shall deal with the clauses in part I. Clauses 1 and 2 replace the existing reckless driving offences, as I have earlier explained, with new dangerous driving offences. These will be based more closely on the actual standard of driving. Clauses 3 and 4 deal with the menace of drink-driving, in particular by creation of the new offence of causing death by careless driving when under the influence of drink or drugs. Clause 5 contains the new offence, which I also mentioned earlier, of causing danger to road users by placing or throwing objects on to roads. Clauses 7 to 13 extend the existing powers to test vehicles on roads and to prohibit the driving of dangerous vehicles. Henceforth, it will be possible to test vehicles on roads for conformity with all construction and use requirements including emissions. The powers of prohibition will apply to private cars as well goods vehicles and public service vehicles and will, in circumstances of immediate danger, be exercisable by authorised police officers as well as the Department's vehicle examiners.
Clauses 17, 19 and 30 provide for the more effective use of camera technology. They make provisions as to the admissibility of camera evidence, provide safeguards on the reliability of the equipment and simplify follow-up procedures through the fixed penalty system. Proper enforcement, with proper safeguards, will bring valuable road safety benefits.
Clauses 23 to 25 make changes to the operation of disqualification and the penalty points system. In future, people disqualified for a specific offence such as drink-driving will no longer have the penalty points from previous unrelated offences wiped from their licences. This will act as a reminder to them that they must act responsibly once their licence is returned. It will also encourage the courts to make more use of their existing powers to order short periods of disqualification, for which provision is made in clause 29.
Mr. Holt : In a recent case in my constituency, involving the death of one of my constituents, the person who
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perpetrated that death was given penalty points which were made to run concurrently with the eight points that he already had--they were not totted up. Under the new legislation, will my right hon. and learned Friend stop the current magistrates' practice of allowing concurrent penalties?Mr. Rifkind : In general, it is appropriate for the magistrate to have discretion to decide whether a penalty should be concurrent or consecutive, but my hon. Friend has drawn the point to my attention and we shall consider whether it would be appropriate to stop the practice.
Clauses 26 and 27 set out the arrangements for the rehabilitation courses for drink drivers. The courses will be designed to influence offenders' attitudes to drinking and driving and to encourage self-examination. Offenders who complete courses successfully will be entitled to a reduction in the period of disqualification. The scheme will initially take the form of an experiment in selected areas. We shall need to monitor the experiment carefully before deciding whether to embark on a full-scale national scheme.
Clause 28 places courts under a duty to order re-tests for those convicted of the new dangerous driving offences. The extended test will probably be twice the length of the normal driving test and consequently more demanding. Courts will also have wide discretion to order a re-test for people convicted of other offences which result in disqualification. These optional powers will be particularly helpful where offenders' driving behaviour suggests that the discipline of a test will be useful in determining whether they should be allowed back on the road.
Clause 32 simplifies the procedures for local authorities to vary parking charges at designated parking places, and clause 33 deals with the power of local authorities in London to appoint parking attendants.
Part II of the Bill contains a major package to deal with traffic in London. Demand for travel in London is forecast to grow. It reflects and reinforces the prosperity of the capital, the benefits of which flow to the whole country. The increase in commuting to central London has been carried entirely by public transport. Since 1983, the number of people commuting by rail has increased by 22 per cent. and we have a massive investment programme in London Underground and Network SouthEast to cater for them. By contrast, the numbers commuting by car has fallen by more than 10 per cent. But other traffic in London has been increasing--for instance, the number of vans coming into central London has risen by more than half--and major new developments are bound to generate some extra traffic, so it is not realistic to set limits on traffic growth in London. Our aims are to cater for growth in London's economy and to relieve the worst congestion where this can be done without unacceptable environmental and social costs. We have a major programme of road improvements in hand, particularly to upgrade the North Circular road and to improve access to east London and Docklands. However, we have to accept that the scope for new road construction is limited, particularly in inner London.
Without any action, the problem would steadily worsen. Over the past 20 years, average speeds have gradually fallen--for example, peak hour speeds in inner London have fallen from 14 mph to about 11 mph. Drivers
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increasingly use side roads to avoid overcrowded main roads, causing disturbances and accidents in residential areas.Therefore, we are creating a network of priority routes, or "red routes", which will help people and goods to move around London more easily. I pay tribute to my hon. Friend the Member for Beckenham (Sir P. Goodhart), who called for such an innovation some time ago and has campaigned tirelessly for it. He mentioned to me that he would have liked to be here today but he explained that he is attending a conference in France. I pay tribute to his pioneering work in this respect. The routes will be subject to special controls on stopping, loading and unloading, which will be strictly enforced, with appropriate penalties for non-compliance. They will be managed by our traffic director, who will ensure the efficient operation of the network. The reduction of avoidable hold-ups will increase reliability and cut waste of resources and the pollution caused by stop-start conditions.
There will be special provision for buses, the performance of which suffers due to congestion. It will be possible to make room for better facilities for pedestrians and cyclists, and measures will be introduced to keep traffic out of residential areas, which will have safety benefits.
Mr. Nigel Spearing (Newham, South) : I am grateful to the right hon. and learned Gentleman for giving way to me on his first appearance at the Dispatch Box as Transport Secretary. While I agree with much of the description that he gave, will he take it from me that, although the remedy may help marginally, it is not the most effective one and that there was insufficient consultation on that part of the Bill, which is a bureaucratic nightmare?
Mr. Rifkind : I await with considerable interest and anticipation a description of the remedy which the hon. Gentleman believes would solve the problem more effectively than the Government's proposal.
Mr. Jeremy Corbyn (Islington, North) : The Secretary of State must be aware that the proposed experimental red route runs through my constituency and the constituency of my hon. Friend the Member for Islington, South and Finsbury (Mr. Smith). During the consultation period, there was overwhelming opposition to the imposition of the route on the area--not least by the local authority, which is elected by the people of the area. The opposition was mounted following the successful opposition to the building of a major through-route in the area. The red route will bring an increase in traffic through the area, and that traffic will travel at higher speeds. In effect, we shall see the construction of a large barrier through the middle of communities. Does the Secretary of State agree that the real solution to London's traffic problems is to invest more resources in public transport and to reduce the number of vehicles entering London? London cannot cope with any increase in traffic. In effect, the Government will sit idly by and watch an increase in London's traffic take place.
Mr. Rifkind : The Government are increasing resources for public transport, and by a far greater amount than for many years. I am sure that the hon. Gentleman and others will welcome that. I hear what the hon. Gentleman says, but I remind him that whatever measures might be taken, including the sort of measures which I have no doubt he has in mind, there will still be a considerable volume of
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traffic throughout London. It is important that that traffic should, if possible, be able to move more easily and without congestion. Congestion frustrates drivers, increases the dangers for pedestrians in the part of the town where it exists, and is likely to lead to an increase in casualties.I can reassure the hon. Member for Islington, North (Mr. Corbyn) that the proposed red route is a pilot scheme. The experiment will be carried out and we shall be able to see the effect that it has. The Government and, I am sure, the local authority will be examining it with great interest to ascertain whether the implications and consequences are helpful or otherwise. Where red routes have been applied elsewhere, there has been a beneficial consequence for the movement of traffic. We hope that that will be replicated in London.
Along with red routes, the Bill will also provide for the establishment of a new and more rational system of permitted parking, mainly at meter and residents' bays, to be administered and enforced by local authorities. This will release significant numbers of police traffic wardens to enforce legal parking controls on red routes and elsewhere. At the same time, we are providing traffic wardens with wider powers to clamp and impound vehicles. The potential benefits are enormous. More than 200,000 parking offences are committed in the capital each day. Some estimates suggest that the economic cost in central London alone is about £140 million a year. The initiative is the first of its type for more than 20 years, and the widest ever. It is part of the Government's aim to make the best use of existing roads throughout London and forms part of our broad strategic approach to the development of London's transport system.
Sir John Wheeler (Westminster, North) : Does my right hon. and learned Friend agree that in Westminster, where the police have pioneered the use of wheel clamping and towing away, there has been a dramatic improvement in the control of parking and the movement of traffic? My right hon. and learned Friend is right to say that the most significant increase in the volume of traffic arises from the use of commercial vehicles and not from private cars.
Mr. Rifkind : My hon. Friend is correct. I believe that the number of cars coming into London has decreased over the years by 10 per cent., but the number of vans and commercial vehicles has continued to increase. We are seeking to respond to that phenomenon. Clause 35 gives the Secretary of State the power to designate a network of priority routes to ease the flow of traffic on London's main roads. Clause 36 gives the Secretary of State power to issue new traffic management guidance to London's local authorities and the Traffic Director for London. The guidance will focus on the Secretary of State's aims for the network, and explain how the routes fit into the Government's approach to the development of transport in London. Clause 37 gives the Secretary of State power to appoint an independent Traffic Director for London to co-ordinate the establishment of the routes and monitor their operation. It also gives the Secretary of State power to set the director's objectives.
Mr. Corbyn : The Secretary of State is dealing with a serious part of the Bill. The people of London lost the power to elect a London-wide authority when the Greater
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London council was abolished. It now appears that we are to have a traffic authority for London by appointment, thrust upon us by the Secretary of State. Where is the democracy in that? Or do Londoners get no say any more in the planning of London's traffic?Mr. Rifkind : The director's responsibilities will be limited to the proposed red routes. I hope that he will be working alongside the local authorities. He will submit a report to Parliament on the way in which he has exercised his duties. I do not believe that the hon. Gentleman's criticisms are justified.
Clause 38 requires the director to issue a network plan to the London local authorities, setting out the overall framework for the routes, the way in which the priority route measures are to be introduced and the timetable for their introduction.
Clauses 39 to 47 cover the preparation and implementation of local plans, which will set out in detail the priority route measures to be introduced. There will be a duty on relevant London local authorities to prepare and implement plans for priority routes for which they are the highway authority. The plans will need to be approved by the traffic director. The director will have a similar duty to prepare and implement local plans for trunk roads designated as priority routes where he is directed to do so by the Secretary of State. The traffic director and the Secretary of State will have fall-back powers where the local authorities fail to meet their duties. However, the implementation of the network will be very much for the benefit of all London's residents, so we are looking forward to the local authorities' co-operation and envisage the fall-back powers being used only as a last resort.
Clause 48 requires the Secretary of State to issue parking guidance to local authorities in London to ensure a co-ordinated approach to parking. The aim will be to avoid distortions between one area of London and another, to maximise the benefits of the priority routes and to improve the movement of traffic throughout London. Part of the guidance will cover the introduction and operation of the new system of permitted on-street parking in London.
Clauses 49 to 58 make provision for the new system. Excess charges set by individual local authorities will be replaced by standard penalty charges set by a joint committee. Instead of being backed by the threat of prosecution, they will be collected as a civil debt, and all enforcement at permitted parking places--meter bays and residents' spaces--will be carried out by local authority parking attendants instead of police traffic wardens. They will have the power to wheel-clamp vehicles parked in breach of the orders. It will be the function of the committee to set the charges associated with wheel-clamping and removal. It will also appoint parking adjudicators to whom aggrieved drivers may appeal.
Clause 59 provides for the Secretary of State to make grants to the traffic director to cover the reasonable expenditure that he incurs in relation to the priority routes. As the local authority roads in the network will comprise only about 30 per cent. of the total, and the work on these roads will be for the benefit of the network as a whole, it is proposed that the director will make appropriate payments to the local authorities from the grant.
I believe that this Bill will make an important contribution to the efficiency and safety of transport, both in London through the major programme for the easing of
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congestion, and nationally through the reform of road traffic law. It has already been welcomed by a number of important commentators and organisations involved with road transport matters. The Automobile Association saw the Bill"as a means of keeping dangerous, aggressive and antisocial drivers off Britain's roads."
The Royal Society for the Prevention of Accidents welcomed the provisions set out in the Bill and has said that it views the Bill "as a very positive step."
A spokesman for the Association of Chief Police Officers has written :
"Seldom have the recommendations of a Government review body met with such unanimous support from interested parties. It is hoped that the Bill will serve to reduce the tragic waste of life on our roads."
I am sure that the House will wish to give the Bill a Second Reading, and I so commend.
5.28 pm
Mr. John Prescott (Kingston upon Hull, East) : First, I offer my congratulations to the Secretary of State. Having listened to him this afternoon, I think that I shall find more agreement with him that I have with his predecessors. I presume, however, that once we get into the area of transport policy, disagreement will begin. We start on a good note with the Bill, which is about road safety. If its aim is to improve road safety, that will unite both sides of the House. I am delighted to be able to give it that support. The introductory remarks of the Secretary of State reflect, I think, the way in which he will approach his job. I am delighted that that is so. I wondered what sort of character the right hon. and learned Gentleman was. Those of us who represent constituencies south of Scotland hear of the battles that are taking place in Scottish constituencies.
This morning I read a profile of the right hon. and learned Gentleman in Transport Week, a magazine published by the Freight Transport Association. The headline described him as the
"Scot who could knock Transport into kilter"
The profile is complimentary and we already know that the right hon. and learned Gentleman has a great reputation as a thinker and debater. I was particularly impressed on one occasion when he made a speech without notes, but I note that the practice was not followed today. No doubt the detail of transport will exercise his mind and he will have to keep close to his notes. I am glad that, at last, he has joined the normal mortals of the Chamber.
The profile describes the Secretary of State as an ambitious lawyer. He will certainly need to be that if he is to understand the technical matters behind the Bill. The article also says that his promotion was a necessary climb up the ladder. I am not sure that the same could be said of previous Secretaries of State and we shall wait and see what happens to the right hon. and learned Gentleman. The Secretary of State has already realised that it is important to pursue a different policy from that pursued in the past and that that is more important than a different face at the Department. That change of emphasis was clear from his speech today when he spoke about the consequences for the environment--presumably that means more than just planting trees on roadsides, which was the policy advocated by the previous Secretary of State. The right hon. and learned Gentleman also spoke about integration and planning, which are important
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issues and are at the heart of Labour party policy. Given that his Department seems to be pinching most of our ideas, I suggest that the right hon. and learned Gentleman consults two documents produced by us, "Moving Britain into Europe" and "Moving Britain into the 1990s". They would add to his thinking on transport.I noted that the right hon. and learned Gentleman said that it was important to recognise that Europe will have an important effect on our transport policy. I recall a television interview with the Minister for Public Transport when it was pointed out to him that the European railway system was much better than our own. He replied that it was the job of the United Kingdom and not the Europeans to run our railways. Perhaps the Minister will heed what his Secretary of State said about learning from the Europeans, as they have produced a better rail system than our own. I accept, of course, that there is also much to be gained from our railway system.
Today gives me the opportunity to make an unusual pact with the Secretary of State : can we agree to take ideology out of transport? The tragedy is that arguments about planning and intervention have been described in terms of ideology, but those arguments are all about achieving a better transport system. In Europe, Governments of the left and right have agreed that there is a role for Government, public money, planning and intervention. If both sides of the House recognise that, we have a good opportunity to turn Britain's transport system into a good one. The right hon. and learned Gentleman must accept that he has inherited a mess and a transport system in crisis. I hope that he will make the necessary changes. The profile in the FTA magazine also described the right hon. and learned Gentleman as a winner in Scotland. I was rather confused about that, because, as an outsider, I thought that he had had more than his fair share of problems. After all, the poll tax was pretty disastrous when it was introduced up there ; there was civil war in the Conservative party and support for it had rapidly declined. I should have thought that any job in this Cabinet was better for him than staying in Scotland. Whether he is a winner or not, I hope that he will do much better when dealing with the United Kingdom's transport system.
We must recognise that the role of the Government is important. It is also important to consider the role of the Department of Transport in terms of problems associated with bad weather. The Department could do a lot about co-ordinating policy and I am not satisfied that the Home Office is the right Department for that. I am glad that the Secretary of State has also recognised that we could learn a great deal from Europe about how to cope with such adverse weather. Access to motorways and the use of railways are crucial in severe weather. It was interesting to note that, today, most hon. Members complained about problems associated with motor cars. If our public transport system were more effective, however, it could make a much greater contribution in such circumstances. Many car drivers use their vehicles because they are more reliable than our transport system. That is a sad reflection on what has happened to transport services in the past few years.
Hon. Members have already related the problems that they experienced in their cars at the weekend and I am not averse to relating the difficulties I have had when attempting to catch various trains. On Friday I intended to catch the 5.33 pm Pullman to Hull, but when I reached the
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Victoria line I found that there was a delay of half an hour because another train was stuck on the line. For the best part of 25 minutes no train appeared and most people missed their connections--I was one of them and I took a later fast train to Leeds. In the past I have spoken about those marvellous trains that travel at 140 mph, but even that train was 40 minutes late getting into Doncaster. That delay could not be blamed on bad weather, as it was still fine on Friday evening. My story illustrates that the problem relates to the reliability of our system. Such reliability is crucial and I look forward to debating that with the right hon. and learned Gentleman. We support part I of the Bill, but we have many criticisms to make about part II, which relates to London and priority routes. My hon. Friend the Member for Lewisham, Deptford (Ms. Ruddock) will have much to say about that later. I want to concentrate on part I, because, as the Secretary of State said, it is concerned with safety, saving lives and reducing the incidence of serious injury. We recognise that our safety record is better than that of Europe, and the Government can readily claim some credit for that. The death and accident rate among the young and old suggests that the control of speed limits within our cities is crucial if we are to reduce such accidents. The Bill will give powers, for the first time, to reduce speed limits in urban areas and that is welcome.The Government may talk about centralisation, but, once they abolished the Greater London council and took over control of the underground and bus services, standards grew considerably worse. We were told often enough that hon. Members would be able to debate the accountability of those transport authorities despite the abolition of the GLC. When we asked how that would be possible, we were told that we would be able to debate that issue when considering the supplementary rates. Now, as a result of the poll tax, however, we no longer have a debate on the supplementary rates and, therefore, those transport authorities are less accountable than when they were under the control of the GLC.
The traffic supremo is accountable to no one, save the Secretary of State. He can enforce powers over the local authorities and those authorities will have little control. As far as I can understand it, the traffic supremo is nothing but a quango. I thought that the Government spent most of their time saying that they wanted to get rid of such things.
I agree that it is essential that we must deal with the problems caused by urban traffic, but if the Government want to do anything about improving transport in our cities more emphasis should be placed on the use of buses rather than private vehicles.
I note that the right hon. Member for Birmingham
Mr. Roger King (Birmingham, Northfield) : Northfield.
Mr. Prescott : The hon. Gentleman should not be so ambitious. I meant to refer to the right hon. Member for Sutton Coldfield (Sir N. Fowler). I may have got his constituency wrong, but I am right to say that he did most to deregulate our bus services--a decision which everyone recognises to have been disastrous. When the present Secretary of State was responsible for Scotland he did not make the same mistake. I remember that the right hon. Member for Sutton Coldfield spent a lot of his time
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welcoming and waving off British Coachways, which he described as a new enterprise with a cutting edge. I am afraid to say that it lasted just 18 months and was taken over by the privatised National Bus system. That great new enterprise could not stand up to the competition because it did not have the necessary resources, let alone a reservation system, to cope. Another great idea, which was part of the cutting edge of enterprise, failed. The deregulation of buses was a catalogue of disasters--catalogued by a number of authorities and not just by me. It is up to people to make their judgment about it.I disagree with nothing that the Secretary of State said about part I of the Bill--the controversy relates to what has been left out. Hon. Members on both sides have already revealed the strength of feeling about random testing and drink-driving. That is a major issue on which I hope the House has the opportunity to vote. I am sad and sorry that the Secretary of State has not seen his way to include it in the Bill. To be fair, I am also sorry that consideration of random testing was not included in Dr. North's terms of reference. It was unfortunate that, although he spent some time considering drink-driving, he did not look at random testing. Anyone who has met Dr. North will know that he has strong views on the matter. We must take the opportunity of the Bill to deal with that issue. The drink-driving aspect is important. I appreciate that the Home Office set up a committee which reported on this issue, but rejected the possibility of introducing random testing. However, it is time for the House to make a decision. It is a controversial matter involving balancing the civil rights of the individual and the rights of people to be defended from those who take irresponsible and criminal actions. The House has constantly had good debates on the subjects of abortion, seat belts and hanging, which all involve important principles. It has often been rightly said that the House is at its best when it has such debates.
In many ways, while it is Opposition policy to introduce random testing, I hope that the possibility of giving the House a free vote will be considered. I suggested that in Committee when the right hon. Member for Sutton Coldfield was Secretary of State. As he knows, three or four hon. Members supported my suggestion in Committee in those early days in the 1970s. Now, the opportunity for such a vote must be provided in the House. In the past, votes have been held in Committee, but there has never been a chance for the whole House to vote on the matter.
The arguments are overwhelming, as the figures show. In 1988, one in six road deaths involved drink-driving, which was responsible for killing 950 and injuring 25,000. There were 120,000 convictions for drink-driving, nearly all the defendants lost their licences and 4, 000 went to prison. More than half the drivers and motor bike riders killed on roads between 10 pm and 4 am were over the legal limit. In 1987, the cost of road accidents was £4 billion. Since the introduction of the breathalyser in 1967, the number of excess alcohol detections has quadrupled. The breathalyser has been a success because it has reduced the number of deaths and accidents, as is well proven.
Therefore, the argument before us is whether we should go further and introduce random testing. At present, the police make it clear that they intend to carry out what is basically random testing. In The Independent on
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Wednesday 5 December, Commander David Ray of New Scotland Yard made the following statement to warn drivers ;"You will be tested if you are involved in a road accident, whether you are at fault or not, or you commit a moving traffic offence and a police officer suspects you have been drinking or you are drunk in charge of a vehicle, even if it is parked."
The last two policies are exactly the same as they are now, but the first policy shows that police will now act as they feel fit, whether or not there is anything wrong with the vehicle. Parliament has not agreed that policy.
It has been said that we should leave it to the discretion of the chief constables. I have a list of all the chief constables in different parts of the country ; some believe in random testing and some think that it is not so important. Let us look at the scale of random testing--that is, what is occurring, but without approval from the House. In Nottingham in 1988, there were 32,800 screen testings, in Merseyside--a similar police force-- there were 4,700 testings. It depends where one is in the country whether one is subjected to such screening. We should have one uniform policy on that. If we decide to allow random testing, cars should be stopped under uniform conditions in all parts of the United Kingdom. Cars should not be stopped merely for road testing. The questions of when, how and if the driver will be able to appeal against the decision should be contained in legislation ; we should not leave such issues solely to the discretion of chief constables and I am surprised that hon. Members believe that we should.
Experiments clearly show that wherever random testing has been introduced-- Australia, Austria, south Wales and various other countries--there tends to be a reduction in deaths and accidents of about 35 per cent. If we were to introduce random testing, many hundreds of deaths and serious injuries could be prevented. I am not aware of all the evidence, but I appeal to the Secretary of State to ask his Department to look at all the evidence and provide detailed information for the Committee stage so that we can make some assessment of it.
I am always confused when I hear that people are worried about whether the police have too much power and discretion. In the road safety debate on 16 November, the Minister for Roads and Traffic said :
"The police have tremendous discretion and, as my right hon. and learned Friend the Home Secretary said earlier this year, it is appropriate to leave the law as it is. I emphasise that there were 22 per cent. more breath tests last year than there were the year before. If the police continue at that rate, it will not be long before we have 1 million breath tests a year."
That means that the number of breath tests will have doubled from 500,000 to 1 million. The Minister continued that, in those circumstances,
"One can always make a case for increasing police powers, but we should be cautious about giving greater discretion to the police in this matter."-- [ Official Report, 16 November 1990 ; Vol. 180, c. 815.]
The police have discretion which varies from district to district. The House is prepared to press for votes on hanging--we are about to have one-- when there are about 500 murders a year. Some hon. Members are prepared to bring in hanging, presumably as a deterrent--I have heard very few of them argue the case for retribution. Therefore, in this case, where more lives could be saved by one simple action, the House should pay equal attention to saving
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