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Griffiths, Sir Eldon (Bury St E')

Griffiths, Peter (Portsmouth N)

Grist, Ian

Ground, Patrick

Hague, William

Harris, David

Hawkins, Christopher

Hayhoe, Rt Hon Sir Barney

Hicks, Robert (Cornwall SE)

Hind, Kenneth

Howarth, G. (Cannock & B'wd)

Howe, Rt Hon Sir Geoffrey

Hughes, Robert G. (Harrow W)

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Column 1097

Hunt, Sir John (Ravensbourne)

Irvine, Michael

Jack, Michael

Janman, Tim

Kellett-Bowman, Dame Elaine

Kilfedder, James

King, Roger (B'ham N'thfield)

Kirkhope, Timothy

Knight, Greg (Derby North)

Knowles, Michael

Lawrence, Ivan

Lennox-Boyd, Hon Mark

Lord, Michael

Macfarlane, Sir Neil

Maclean, David

Mans, Keith

Meyer, Sir Anthony

Miller, Sir Hal

Monro, Sir Hector

Morrison, Sir Charles

Moynihan, Hon Colin

Neubert, Sir Michael

Nicholson, David (Taunton)

Page, Richard

Paice, James

Patnick, Irvine

Peacock, Mrs Elizabeth

Porter, David (Waveney)

Powell, William (Corby)

Rathbone, Tim

Riddick, Graham

Ridsdale, Sir Julian

Ryder, Rt Hon Richard

Sackville, Hon Tom

Shaw, David (Dover)

Shaw, Sir Michael (Scarb')

Shelton, Sir William

Shepherd, Colin (Hereford)

Smith, Sir Dudley (Warwick)

Smith, Tim (Beaconsfield)

Speed, Keith

Stanbrook, Ivor

Stevens, Lewis

Summerson, Hugo

Taylor, John M (Solihull)

Thompson, Patrick (Norwich N)

Thorne, Neil

Thurnham, Peter

Vaughan, Sir Gerard

Waller, Gary

Wheeler, Sir John

Widdecombe, Ann

Wood, Timothy

Tellers for the Noes :

Mr. Tim Boswell and

Mr. Neil Hamilton.

Question accordingly negatived.

Question, That the proposed words be there added, Put forthwith pursuant to Standing Order No. 30 (Questions on amendments), and agreed to.

Mr. Speaker forthwith declared the main Question, as amended, to be agreed to.

Resolved,

That this House, while recognising the difficulties which may face fishermen as a result of the decisions for fish conservation reached at the latest EC Council of Fisheries Ministers, endorses the need for such measures to safeguard the long-term interests of fishermen themselves by reducing the over-exploitation of certain fish stocks, welcomes the Government's continuing efforts to secure improved conservation measures and congratulates the Government on securing at the last Fisheries Council a package of measures which included the maintenance of the principle of relative stability, continued recognition of the United Kingdom's claims under the Hague Preference and improved flexibility to take our western mackerel quota east of 4 West.

NATURAL HERITAGE (SCOTLAND) BILL [LORDS]

Ordered,

The the Natural Heritage (Scotland) Bill [Lords] may be proceeded with as if it had been certified by Mr. Speaker as relating exclusively to Scotland.-- [Mr. Wood.]

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Column 1098

Kashmir (Human Rights)

Motion made, and Question proposed, That this House do now adjourn.-- [Mr. Wood.]

10.12 pm

Mr. Terry Rooney (Bradford, North) : I am very pleased to have the opportunity to debate human rights in Kashmir.

At a time when the world's attention is focussed on events in the Gulf, it is right for us not to forget those other people who are seeking to establish their own rights and freedoms. Many right hon. and hon. Members have raised the subject of self-determination for the Baltic states, and I share their concern ; but I believe that the situation in Kashmir has become a forgotten issue, and I am seeking to rectify that.

It is now some 43 years since the partition of India, but ever since then, Kashmir has been in a state of political limbo. The United Nations has passed resolutions on the region, but has failed to pursue them with any commitment--certainly with the vigour and enthusiasm that characterises more recent Security Council decisions.

The state of Kashmir is of strategic importance, bordering, as it does, Afghanistan, Russia, China, Tibet, Pakistan and, of course, India. Throughout history, it has been subjected to incursions and acts of aggression. After 2,000-odd years of strife and torment, surely it is time that the people of Kashmir had peace and stability in their lives.

Since 1947, there have been sporadic outbursts of internal conflict and strife, and peace-keeping forces have been sent into the area. Nothing that has previously happened compares with the present position. There are more than 250,000 troops in Kashmir, notionally to maintain law and order. The reality, I suspect, is vastly different.

Despite the curfews and censorship imposed by the armed forces, reports of horrific abuses of human rights are coming from the region, including the torture of protesters, looting, rape, arson and murder. While much of the evidence is inevitably anecdotal, the refusal of the authorities to allow access to the International Committee of the Red Cross to investigate these claims points to their validity and substance. Demonstrations in support of self-determination have numbered up to 1 million people. Surely such strength of feeling deserves recognition.

It is important at this stage to point out that these demonstrations are cross-cultural and multi-religious. The population of Kashmir numbers over 10 million. While the majority of the population are Muslim, there are very significant minorities of Sikhs, Hindus, Buddhists and other religious groups. Support for the right of Kashmiris to self-determination crosses all religious and cultural boundaries.

We cannot and should not condone violence for its own end--the pursuit of freedom. It is, alas, inevitable that when tensions are high and fear is the prevalent emotion that innocent people are maimed, injured and even killed. It has been estimated that 1.5 million people have fled from the area or are incarcerated in camps in Delhi, Amritsar and Jammu. These events are taking place in Commonwealth countries. That is why I believe that it is the duty of the House to facilitate the ending of these hostilities and atrocities.

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The current disputes over Kashmir can be traced back to 1947 and the independence of India and Pakistan. Resolutions were passed by the United Nations on 21 April 1948 and 13 August 1948 requiring a plebiscite to be carried out to obtain the views of the Kashmiri people, with the unfortunate restriction that this was to be on whether to accede to India or Pakistan. Despite that limitation, no referendum has ever been allowed. It is to the detriment of all concerned that we have now had 43 years of inertia, of needless suffering of a proud nation and of blind eyes being turned. The convenience of politicians has been allowed to transcend the needs and wishes of Kashmir.

Hon. Members in all parts of the House have condemned the violence in Kashmir and expressed support for the concept of

self-determination. Now it is time to translate that support into action. If the Indian Government are unwilling or unable to find a way forward, I suggest that the Prime Ministers and Foreign Secretaries of all the Commonwealth countries should be called on to mediate and prepare the ground. That must be by way of a plebiscite of the Kashmiri people, with all options on the agenda--that is, remaining part of India, joining Pakistan or forming an independent state. I favour the last, but I do not presume to impose my views on others.

In my home city of Bradford, there are more than 30,000 citizens of Kashmiri origin, many of whom have relatives still living in Kashmir. They are at the moment in complete ignorance as to the health and welfare of these relatives because of the news blackout and the poor state of information. They are denied the opportunity of visiting by the Government's refusal to issue visas. I know that there are thousands of Kashmiris in other parts of the country with the same concern. We also have a duty to them to resolve this issue as speedily and as peacefully as possible.

I believe that it is imperative to investigate the question of abuses of human rights. I call on the Indian authorities to allow Amnesty International to be given free and unhindered access to assess the situation in the unbiased and objective manner for which it is rightly renowned.

Mr. Max Madden (Bradford, West) : I congratulate my hon. Friend on initiating this debate. Does he agree that it is important that the Indian Government immedately allow Amnesty International to investigate the many allegations about human rights abuses? Will he also confirm that the scale and savagery of the brutality that the people of Kashmir have faced in recent years at the hands of the Indian security forces are comparable to anything that has occurred in Kuwait? Does he agree that it is necessary for the Government to confirm--as they have confirmed in the case of Kuwait and the Baltic states--that the people of Kashmir have a right to determine their future and the destiny of their country on the basis that he has outlined?

Mr. Rooney : I am grateful for my hon. Friend's intervention. He also represents an area of Bradford. He has had an opportunity that I have not yet had to visit Kashmir. I have heard--as the House has heard--his first-hand accounts of some of the atrocities in that area. However, I understand that even he, in his mission of good

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will, was denied access to many areas of the state of Kashmir. Perhaps that gives us a lead to the forces at work in the region. It is imperative that, wherever possible, we expose any abuse of human rights and any atrocities that man is capable of perpetrating on others. Amnesty International has a record which is second to none. I do not believe that anyone could doubt the integrity of such an organisation. I am worried that it is being denied access in the same way that the Red Cross is being denied access. To me, that is a sign that something extremely serious is happening there, about which the Government and forces in the area do not wish the outside world to know.

Violence is being perpetrated on an enormous scale. That is certain. Where the blame lies need not interest us especially. Blame does not bring anyone back to life, heal injuries, restore lives or give orphans parents. If we are to resolve conflict--the Baltic states and Kuwait have been mentioned, but there are many other areas of the world where conflict exists--we need to do it on a reasoned basis and on the back of sound information. If, for whatever reason, the Government and authorities of India will not allow parliamentary or similar delegations, we must press them to allow Amnesty International to assess the situation and to report back to Governments, to the Commonwealth and to the United Nations, so that progress can be made.

Self-determination is enshrined in article 1 of the United Nations charter. People must be free to determine their own Government, their own life style, their own form of democracy and their own mode of economy. That must be inherent in any civilised society. It is not for other powers to impose their will, by force, by aggression or by any other means. Self- determination must be a basic human right, and must be the basis of any freedom and any democracy. Any self-respecting politician would accept that.

We are constantly told that India is the world's largest democracy, with 1 billion people--perhaps more. There are many turmoils in India and one does not envy the President, the Prime Minister or the Parliament of India their job. Nevertheless, we must tell India that, because of its federal nature, unless it resolves conflicts such as that in Kashmir to the satisfaction of the world community, it will be in danger of tearing itself apart. That would be a tragedy for all of us--especially for all the people of India and for the region generally.

I have received many statements, depositions and reports from all sections of the community. I absolve no one from blame for the violence that is occurring in Kashmir. Some would say that it is entirely the work of Hindus against Muslims--others, vice versa. I do not think that we are in the business of apportioning blame. We are in the business of removing the violence, establishing peace and stability and restoring human rights in the area and allowing a proud people to get on with their lives in a pleasant land. We want to make it an attractive place for people to live, to give children hope for the future and the elderly peace in their last years. The situation in Kashmir has been allowed to continue for far too long--from 1947 to 1991--with little sign of any progress being made.

As part of the Commonwealth, we have a lead role to play. It is right and proper that we should use the good offices of the Foreign and Commonwealth Office to impress upon India the need to bring Amnesty

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