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Mr. Deputy Speaker (Mr. Harold Walker) : Order. I appeal for brief speeches in the limited time remaining. A number of hon. Members have sat throughout the debate, and I hope that they will not be disappointed.
8.16 pm
Mr. Anthony Coombs (Wyre Forest) : Before I welcome the Bill, I should declare an interest. I used to make my living as a house builder and I still have an interest in what, due to the current state of the housing market, is inevitably a fairly dormant building company.
More importantly, my constituency of Wyre Forest has a large green belt which is subject to the depradations of, among others, the occupants of Hagley hall and their noble friends. We have a large road building programme--the west orbital route, and a number of areas of special scientific interest and of great natural beauty. We also have the second largest concentration of caravans in the country and a great deal of quarrying and excavation.
I therefore welcome the Government's adoption of the Carnworth proposals, which make it more difficult for developers who irresponsibly try to circumvent the planning system. I welcome, too, the right of the local authority to ignore persistent applications and the more flexible powers of enforcement available for authorities, particularly planning contravention notices and the breach of current condition notices. I also welcome the fact that stop notices can now be applied to residential caravan sites which have been developed without planning permission. Too often in my constituency people try to put pressure on the planning authorities, saying, "We will put gipsies on the land--try and get us off if you can." I would not go so far as some hon. Members, who have said that they would make the contravention of planning permission a criminal offence, although I think that it is vandalism of a particularly permanent sort, but I agree with the hon. Member for Hammersmith (Mr. Soley) that there should be a general duty on local planning authorities to uphold and enforce the planning laws. If an authority refuses to enforce the planning regulations in an
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area, the only way to make it do so is to take it to court. That is often beyond an individual landowner, and certainly beyond an individual householder. I urge the Government to do something about that.I am pleased that, under clause 18 and schedule 1, county councils can directly control the development of quarrying and waste, and can make reinstatement orders to ensure that the land reverts properly to its original condition. That is logical, given that county councils are responsible for mineral plans.
I am concerned about a possible conflict of interest between county councils--which may not have people on the ground to ensure that the provisions that they lay down are properly monitored--and the detailed environmental policies of district authorities. Lickhill quarry in my constituency has been quarried for many years, and many people have reservations about the amount of topsoil that has been put on. The county council does not seem to be monitoring the position adequately. If county councils are given total control, I am concerned that their provisions and restrictions may contradict the policies of the district, leading to confusion and to a coach and horses being driven through planning policy.
It is all very well to provide for after-care after tipping, but what happens if quarry companies go into voluntary liquidation deliberately before the after-care is done, so that they do not have to carry it out? The county council will have to pick up the bill. A strong case could be made for performance bonds to be lodged by quarrying companies or their insurance companies so that people will know that money will be available for after-care when it is needed. Interim development orders have been the subject of a consultation paper by the Department of the Environment. I was pleased to hear what the Minister said today. The position is scandalous. I am glad that the Royal Society for Nature Conservation has drawn to our attention the fact that there are no fewer than 1,000 IDOs, 330 of which pose a major threat to the environment.
As the demand for sand and gravel grows with the road programme, particularly in my area where various major road schemes are about to come on stream, the threat from IDOs grows. Of course, permissions for IDOs last as long as the minerals. Brant farm in my constituency has not been developed for a long time, but with new quarrying techniques, previously unmined quarries can now be mined. Quarrying companies can go back to a quarry and mine to a deeper level, and because of the IDO the planning authorities have no control over that process.
There is a strong case for proper legislation and for compensation for home owners where IDOs are discovered next to their homes. We should insist that all IDOs that have not been worked for 10 years should be the subject of environmental assessment before they are allowed to be revived. If the sites are redeveloped, they should be subject to performance bonds to ensure that the ground is properly reinstated.
On compensation, I am pleased that home loss payments of 10 per cent. above market value are to be instituted by the Bill, and also that, if there is a change of use after the compulsory purchase order has been made, the resulting difference in value must be paid to the former landowner under clause 52.
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On the point made by my hon. Friend the Member for Ilford, South (Mr. Thorne), £15,000 is peanuts for many properties. For instance, in my constituency which will be affected by road schemes, properties are worth £300,000 if they are worth a penny. When a person pays 2 per cent. stamp duty to move, which is £6,000, and when he has paid his moving costs, there is scant recompense from the state for the compulsory purchase of a property which the person may have lived in for years. The compensation above market value should be at least 25 per cent., or possibly even 50 per cent. Certainly the Government should consider that point carefully.Tenants should get compensation for home loss, particularly if they are lessees under long tenancy agreements. A tenant may have a 50-year tenancy which may be worth more than many freeholds. As I understand it, under the Bill tenants will not be entitled to compensation above £1,500. That should be put right.
There is a case for a better rate of compensation for the forced sale of commercial premises to reflect the goodwill inherent in the properties. If a person has been in a property for 20 years, he may get the value of the business from the city council that is taking over the property, but he will not get any payment for goodwill. Premiums should be paid, as in France, for forced sale of commercial premises in order to reflect the scarcity value.
Overall, the Bill is a worthwhile measure and I shall have pleasure in supporting it tonight, if necessary, or on Report. I say that advisedly. I wish the Bill the best, because it will make a significant improvement to planning and will stop up many of the holes which the less scrupulous developers have previously ridden through.
8.26 pm
Mr. Win Griffiths (Bridgend) : Subject to-- [Interruption.] In view of the murmurings from the Conservative Benches, I should point out that I was in the Chamber until about 7 o'clock and that I came back at 8 o'clock--
Mr. Vaz : Do not explain to them.
Mr. Griffiths : I feel the need to put right the hon. Member for South Hams (Mr. Steen) ; he has lost a few moments of time because I had to do that. It will be his own fault if he fails to be called. There is much to be welcomed in the Bill. Apart from a few provisions that we should like to see amended, as my hon. Friend the Member for Hammersmith (Mr. Soley) said, the major problems are the matters that have been omitted, particularly when we bear in mind the White Paper "This Common Inheritance". I should have thought that the Bill provided an excellent opportunity to take up some of the environmental issues that rely on European Community legislation or on planning guidance and notes, sent out by the Department of the Environment, the Welsh Office and the Scottish Office.
It was surprising to find nothing specific about environmental issues when the Bill was introduced in the Lords. Although the Government made sympathetic noises in the other place, when it came to substantial amendment, there were no concessions. I hope that in Committee we shall take the opportunity to make additions that will display to the public the Government's
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real commitment to enact in primary legislation many of their fine words on sustainable development and on handing over a better planet to future generations.Specific environmental duties should be laid on planning authorities. As was pointed out in the other place, the Government charge a wide variety of bodies with specific environmental duties. They cannot argue that there is no precedent. There can, therefore, be no real argument against the Government's including a provision in the Bill to impose on local authorities specific environmental duties when considering planning applications. It would strike a positive note.
At the moment, we have to rely on a European Community directive relating to projects that are deemed to have a major environmental impact on the environment. In the annexes to European Community directive there are lists of defined major developments that are subject to environmental impact assessment. An example was alluded to in the other place. Sewage treatment plants are subject to environmental impact assessment under the directive, but potable water treatment plants are not subject to such an assessment, even though they may have as damaging an impact on the environment as any sewage treatment plants.
I hope that, instead of placing reliance on environmental impact assessment directive, the Government will, as they promised, extend its application by tabling amendments in Committee. In particular, I hope that they will carry out their promise to subject private Bill legislation relating to major developments to environmental impact assessments. At the moment, such developments are specifically excluded under the terms of the environmental impact assessment directive. For the purposes of the directive, private Bills are deemed to be public legislation.
I echo the words of the hon. Member for Wyre Forest (Mr. Coombs) and other hon. Members who have spoken convincingly about the need to end the scandal of interim development orders. The Government have already made a commitment to take certain measures, even before the full consultation process has been completed. That is a welcome step in the right direction, and it will be supported with enthusiasm. I hope that the Government will take this opportunity to widen the scope of planning controls to include farm buildings and major agricultural and forestry developments. They ought to be the subject of appropriate planning applications. Unfortunately, all too often ill-considered developments disfigure the landscape. It is time that they were brought within the scope of the planning law, as happens with industrial developments.
A statutory duty ought to be placed on local authorities to approach all neighbours who may be affected by a development. Many hon. Members have referred to the problems caused when neighbours feel that their views have been ignored during the planning application procedure. It leads to bad feeling. Perhaps planning decisions are then coloured by bad feeling between personalities rather than the issues involved being considered dispassionately. The Government ought to make a commitment to allow third- party planning appeals. After a planning application has been approved, people with a clear interest in the development ought to have the right to appeal, in just the same way as developers have the right to appeal when a planning permission application is refused.
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On common land, I ask the Government to look again at their last election manifesto and to table amendments to the Bill to enable them to implement those commitments.I do not say that a particular organisation or institution ought to be responsible for coastal zone planning under our planning procedures, but the Nature Conservancy Council's report on our coasts and estuaries and the Royal Society for the Protection of Birds' report and survey of our estuaries demonstrate that there is a pressing need for additional steps to be taken to protect our coastal zones. Just about every estuary worthy of the name is subject to development proposals. Whether they relate to tourism, energy, transport, commercial activities, or a combination of them all, we believe that they should be subject to the most rigorous planning procedures.
Even if an estuary is not the subject of a development proposal, our planning procedures ought to include the steps that need to be taken to protect and enhance the estuarial environment. Estuaries are vital for migratory birds. The flora and fauna must be protected. Due to development pressures in the south, the south-west and Wales, planning authorities need to introduce coherent plans to protect long stretches of coastline that lie beyond the responsibilities of just one planning authority.
I hope that all these issues will be considered in great detail in Committee and that on Report the Bill will include significant improvements that will help to preserve our common inheritance. 8.37 pm
Mr. Robert Boscawen (Somerton and Frome) : May I reinforce two points so ably made by my hon. Friend the Member for Wyre Forest (Mr. Coombs)? They concern mineral extraction, in particular mineral extraction from the Mendip hills in Somerset--part of my constituency. It is an area of outstanding natural beauty and the principal source of crushed rock. It is the nearest source of supply for the south-east--the principal area of rock aggregate consumption in the United Kingdom. Millions of tonnes of stone are exported each year. Our exports are increasing rapidly. Any measure that affects the responsibilities of mineral planning authorities-- in our case, Somerset county council--is of great importance to us.
Two truisms are well known in this sphere. If the economy is to thrive, an adequate supply of minerals must be available to the construction industry. Minerals can be worked only where they occur naturally. Modern extraction of stone creates substantial environmental disturbance, especially in such confined areas as the east Mendips. Every effort must be made to minimise such environmental disturbance.
Under the Bill, the planning rules on the depositing of mineral waste will be brought in line with those on mineral workings. Although complex provisions will be necessary, they should be supported by all hon. Members.
As my hon. Friend the Member for Wyre Forest and the Minister said, there is nothing in the Bill on interim development orders. Those orders go back a long time and were introduced in a hurry in the 1940s to pump-prime the industry at the end of the second world war. Most of the principal quarries in the east Mendips, of which there are about nine, are operated by major companies in or near areas that are subject to interim development orders. Minimal conditions are attached to the winning of minerals. Therefore, IDOs should be
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registered as soon as possible. The Government are losing no time in ensuring that that happens. All IDO permissions will be known to the mineral authority and to those who must make official searches on behalf of people who wish to buy houses.Such certain knowledge would to some extent reduce the fears of individuals and groups who live in the area that further damage will be done to SSSIs if long-dormant workings were reactivated without conditions being imposed and a planning application being considered.
The majority of mineral operators want good relations with those who live and work in the area. In the Mendips, the quarry advisory committee brings together representatives of the quarry management and elected authorities, from Members of Parliament to parish councillors, so that they can listen to each other's point of view on the conflicting interests in quarrying.
I hope that, when consultation on IDOs has taken place, the operators will take a reasonable view of the Bill's proposals. I believe that they will. However, they may not do so if, under the Bill, existing mineral working rights are appropriated without compensation. The Government could fall into a minefield of traps if they pursued that policy.
The Government have undertaken to review all aspects of the compensation regulations. My hon. Friend the Minister will want to strike the right balance between meeting environmental concerns and ensuring that essential crushed rock resources are supplied to customers at a reasonable cost.
The long-term restoration schemes of quarry workings was mentioned. Somerset county council, our minerals authority, has a long and commendable record of pioneering environmental conditions attached to planning consents and to IDOs. Like my hon. Friend the Member for Wyre Forest and the hon. Member for Bridgend (Mr. Griffiths), it is concerned about funding and long -term maintenance responsibilities long after mineral workings cease. I should like to hear what solutions, if any, Ministers have in mind and whether long-term restoration funding has been seriously considered. It will not be easy to achieve the right balance in the controversial issues surrounding IDOs.
I would welcome a visit from my hon. Friend the Minister so that he could see the extent of quarrying in a relatively small area. Huge holes have been dug in the ground by modern machinery, and to a large extent they are carefully concealed by banking and trees. Much long-term capital investment is involved, including major public road and rail links. Limiting environmental damage is of prime concern. The long-established work force in the area must be considered. If Ministers cannot achieve the right balance in the short time before the Bill is enacted, I hope that they will still take the opportunity to do so, because the matter needs to be treated sensitively for the future of the environment, and particularly for all those who live in the area.
8.46 pm
Mr. James Paice (Cambridgeshire, South-East) : I welcome the Bill and should like to make four points, three of which are covered by the Bill. The one that is not
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covered, which probably would be better dealt with by a planning policy guidance, is the vexed subject of infill, which, more than any other planning policy, has destroyed the village structure of many rural communities. It has led to the concept that every square inch of available land in a village is built on, to the exclusion of stretching the village envelope.The traditional broken village frontage has gone, and many villages in my constituency have only a market town high street with no green space, orchards or gardens visible from the main road. That is a tragedy. I would far rather that we developed back lands, punched out the odd close, keeping development close to the centre but behind the village street rather than cramming it into every piece of available land. I am sorry that the Bill does not address that, but perhaps my hon. Friend the Minister will take my point on board.
My second point, which is covered by the Bill, is to welcome the moves under clause 17 to deal with deemed planning consent and land owned by interested planning authorities. I noticed that, on Second Reading in the other place, my noble Friend Baroness Blatch, a former leader of Cambridgeshire county council, referred to single-tier authorities that dealt with planning. Clause 17 also deals with county and district councils.
It is reasonable to allow a county council to make a decision on use of its own land, perhaps to construct a school, but it is patently wrong, when county councils are understandably looking for capital receipts, that they should be able to give themselves planning consent for residential development and then sell it on the open market. Everybody has to apply to the district council to erect a porch, so it is wrong that county councils can do otherwise. Of course, the boot can be on the other foot : district councils can develop their own land. Although that is less common, it happens and it should be addressed.
There is also the problem of local authorities wanting to use land for their own purposes. I have a particular problem in my constituency at the moment. The district councils proposals to build its own new headquarters are causing considerable local dissatisfaction, I shall write to my hon. Friend the Minister about it.
I am also concerned about the date of implementing those provisions, which is not included in the Bill. If we are to change the controls over deemed planning consent, I believe that the date of implementation should be with effect from the date of the First Reading of the Bill, which is already being used in relation to compensation ; otherwise, between now and the Bill coming into force, authorities seeking to get around the provisions will cause a rush of deemed planning consents.
My third point has already been covered several times, but I have a particular angle on gipsy and traveller encampments. We in Cambridgeshire have suffered badly at the hands of travelling people, who have simply turned up and parked anywhere, on roadsides, in laybys, in parking places and on private land without any "by your leave".
I have two district councils--one is designated under the Caravan Sites Act 1968 ; the other is not, but is seeking designation. As I said in an intervention, the number of travellers in the area is constantly increasing. I am not saying that the county councils are getting the job absolutely right at the moment, but the proposals in the
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Bill to extend their legal powers and to introduce stop notices so that they can deal more quickly with such contraventions are an important addition.My hon. Friend the Member for Taunton (Mr. Nicholson) said that gipsies appear to get favourable treatment. That is a common belief. People all over my constituency are under the impression that gipsies are getting away, in planning terms, with things which ordinary law-abiding citizens would not get away with. That is not acceptable. I hope that my hon. Friend the Minister will bear in mind the fact that the powers to deal with that problem will have to go beyond what is in the Bill. The Department of the Environment will have to instruct its inspectors to take a much sterner attitude to unauthorised developments by gipsies, which are then the subject of late applications or appeal.
Over and over again in my constituency, a gipsy has applied for planning consent for a caravan and been turned down by the district council, but has then gone to appeal and been granted consent. Three years later, the same gipsy applies to build a house on the site, goes to the district council, is turned down, goes to appeal and is granted that consent. The result is a property in the back of beyond where nobody else would have a chance of getting planning consent. When implementing the provisions of the Bill, it is important that the Government ensure that they get other factors right, as well as the legal language of the Bill.
My fourth and final point relates to compensation. I very much welcome the Government's decision to address this issue in the Bill, but I am disappointed at the way in which it has been dealt with--
Mr. Paice : As my hon. Friend the Member for South Hams (Mr. Steen) says, the outcome is not enough.
It is a pity that the Government rejected a number of amendments that were tabled in another place. Their resistance to offering sweeteners to people who will be affected by planning applications and developments is short- sighted. As several of my hon. Friends have said, we must bear natural justice in mind. It costs a lot of extra money when one loses one's home and has to move--not just the 10 per cent. that is provided for in the Bill. There are also the other associated problems. However, the effect of having one's farm cut in half or losing part of one's garden goes far beyond the simple value of that piece of land and we need to recognise the case for natural justice.
A sensible case for offering sweeteners can also be made on the grounds of expediency. This country spends far too much money in the delay associated with and the execution of public inquiries. While it may not sound high- minded, I believe that there is a substantial case for stuffing people's mouths with silver if it means that the development can be achieved.
Of course I feel for those people who are affected. If my property was affected, I would probably oppose the development, object to it and take the matter to inquiry. That is totally understandable, for the simple reason that, if one does not do so, one gets nothing out of it. As several of my hon. Friends have said, the present arrangements are simply not adequate. I hope that my right hon. and hon. Friends will reconsider their proposals and stance on compensation.
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I appreciate that the hand of the Treasury is firmly involved in this matter, as in so many things. We cannot get away from that, but the cost of the delays and of the inquiries that inevitably result from the objections is far too great and must be taken into account. Now that compulsory purchase powers are held by private sector bodies, many of which were formally in the public sector, it is important that we ensure that those powers are used properly. In my own constituency, the dualling of the A11 in the near future is causing big problems. I believe that greater compensation could have short-circuited many of them.The Bill goes a long way to resolving many of the planning problems that we are all acquainted with from our mail bags. I have outlined one or two points, but I emphasise my particular concern about compensation. I very much hope that my hon. Friend will look at that matter again.
Several Hon. Members rose--
Mr. Deputy Speaker : Order. We have 25 minutes left and four Back- Bench Members are still seeking to catch my eye. The arithmetic is fairly obvious.
8.56 pm
Mr. Patrick Ground (Feltham and Heston) : I must declare an interest in this debate in that I have practised at the planning Bar for more than 20 years.
I generally welcome the Bill and should like to make four short points about it.
First, the provisions for planning contravention notices, breach of condition notices, and the right to apply to the High Court and county court for injunctions are useful additions to the enforcement powers of local authorities. They are likely to be effective because they are sensibly based on the practical experience of operating the existing system of planning control.
Secondly, I do not believe that it would strengthen planning control to make a breach of planning control a criminal offence. I welcome the increase in penalties for existing criminal offences, but local authorities have always had discretion and have had to consider not only whether there has been a breach of planning control, but whether it is expedient to enforce the provisions. That element of discretion remains an important part of planning practice. The role of the criminal law in planning matters should be as narrow and circumscribed as possible. The criminal courts are not good at handling matters involving planning judgments or estimations about planning policy and the present pattern of enforcement in planning control is right in seeking to separate all judgments about planning policy from the implementation of criminal sanctions. The system is sensible in giving the local authority and the Minister power to make all the necessary planning judgments and then leaving it cut and dried for the criminal courts when it comes to prosecution.
I recall when things were otherwise and we had the most disastrous series of adjournments in the magistrates courts because they did not want to consider the criminal aspect of the case while there were applications for planning permission to the local authority and possible similar appeals relating to planning merits already pending. That would be the wrong path to follow.
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Thirdly, I greatly welcome the changes that have taken place in what was clause 24 and is now clause 25 of the Bill. I am pleased that the Government have changed those provisions. I welcome discretion being given to the Minister in dealing sensibly with pre-appeal procedures and the sanction of costs for unreasonable behaviour.It was undesirable to penalise someone for asking for a public inquiry simply because that person had exercised a right. Time and again, I have seen people who were inarticulate on paper and who made no impression in the written procedures subsequently attend and transform the whole course of the planning inquiry by explaining the issue to the inspector and answering questions in a way which dazzled and completely answered expert cross-examination.
It is important that that right to a public inquiry should be preserved, not only for the appellant but for local authorities, which often have a series of local residents wishing to put their points of view about a development. That would be lost if the matter were dealt with solely by way of written representation. I am therefore pleased that people will not be penalised in the way that was proposed. What is now in clause 25 seems a sensible way of dealing with one aspect of unreasonable behaviour.
Fourthly, I agree with what my hon. Friend the Member for Cambridgeshire, South-East (Mr. Paice) said about clause 17. The area about which I am least happy in planning practice and law is the position when a local authority is making a decision on planning policy permission in relation to its own land or a development in which it is involved. I have several examples in my constituency. The local authority gave itself planning permission for council offices on land acquired for a public park. It allowed housing on land that was acquired or used for public open space. Recently it promoted a hostel jointly with the health authority when it clearly runs the risk of breaching planning control. Certainly seven people will be in residence. It is difficult to believe that matters would follow the course that is being pursued if a private developer were involved. I welcome clause 17, but I shall be looking hard at it, because I am far from satisfied that it completely lays to rest a problem which I regard as one of the greatest difficulties and weaknesses of the present planning system.
9.2 pm
Mr. Mark Wolfson (Sevenoaks) : I am pleased to follow my hon. and learned Friend the Member for Feltham and Heston (Mr. Ground), and shall endeavour to emulate the dispatch with which he made his points.
I welcome the Bill. It is seldom that an opportunity arises to alter and, one hopes, to improve the planning and compensation laws, so it is essential that we get the Bill right. I wish to focus on two aspects in particular--those dealing with enforcement and compensation. I will begin with compensation.
I support those who have argued that compensation for compulsory purchase should be higher, for all the reasons that they have eloquently stated, but particularly for reasons of speed in getting an application through and saving the money that is otherwise spent due to the huge cost inflation of projects. We now often have compulsory purchase not simply for the provision of what used to be
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solely a public service but for commercial gain, so it seems right that the individual losing his property--not just his home but, in the same category, possibly farmland--should have a beneficial gain, as well as those who will benefit from holding the land and developing it in the future for whatever purpose.My right hon. Friend and neighbour the Member for Tonbridge and Malling (Sir J. Stanley) specified the particular problem of blight and the importance of amending the Bill to enable people to be bought out for future development of roads and, in my case, the high-speed rail link. Such people should not suffer years of blighted property, as a result of which their whole life style may be broken because they cannot sell their home and move.
We must look abroad. For example, French railways pay 125 per cent. of the value of property. That is an extremely sensible policy. As a result, people who are about to be or will be bought out for the development of a railway line in France cannot understand why we in Britain have difficulties over such matters. The reason, of course, is that under our arrangements for buying out, compensation for compulsory purchase is far too low.
I shall now deal with enforcement in the case of unauthorised development. Here we deal with buildings, tipping and gipsy sites. I am extremely uneasy about the improved enforcement powers in the Bill, because I think that they will prove to be inadequate. Perhaps, after much consultation, lengthy work in Whitehall and many parliamentary hours, the Bill will still be toothless in terms of enforcement.
I have high hopes for the Under-Secretary of State for the Environment, my hon. Friend the Member for Suffolk, South (Mr. Yeo). Bright-eyed and bushy- tailed, he is dealing with his first major Bill, and I am sure that he does not want to produce toothless legislation. He wants red-meat legislation and I look to him to respond to the many concerns that have been expressed by hon. Members.
My hon. Friend the Minister for Housing and Planning, who opened the debate, has already made clear his conversion--whether on the road to Wigan pier I do not know--to the case against criminalisation of unauthorised development. I regret that view, and I shall be one of those who will continue to argue vigorously for a change in the Bill. We ought to listen to the District Planning Officers Society, which knows the problem. I appreciate that my view contrasts with that of my hon. and learned Friend the Member for Feltham and Heston who has a strong legal background and is familiar with the issue. We should be open-minded and ready to appreciate the force of the argument advanced by those who are desperately trying to carry out enforcement orders on the ground in our constituencies for the benefit of the people who live there. We should give them the powers they seek. Legislation exists to protect the environment, both urban and rural, which belongs to us all. When an individual or an organisation succeeds in flouting those valid constraints, it sets a serious precedent for others to follow. It also brings the law into serious and deepening disrepute. People naturally say to themselves, "If he can get away with it, why shouldn't I? Is it really worth being law-abiding?" The national situation is serious. There is a major problem of unauthorised development. In an
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intervention, my hon. Friend the Member for South Hams (Mr. Steen) spoke about that and gave figures. I am convinced that it should be made a criminal offence.Local authorities encounter a multitude of difficulties when trying to exercise their enforcement role. The enforcement notice is almost inevitably followed by an appeal which takes months or years to achieve. It is then necessary to go for a confirmed notice followed by prosecution in the courts for non-compliance. That is not cheap, and the public are paying the price. So far, the penalties have been derisory. The Bill will increase the penalties, but they will still not be enough.
Understandably, the public accuse councils of allowing the transgressor to get away with it, and the credibility of the system is therefore badly damaged. Although some of the difficulties have been fully explored in the Carnwath report and are addressed in the Bill, I do not think that the proposed legislation goes far enough. I share the view that the deterrent effect of immediate court action is needed to restore proper public credibility to the system. Unless we have that, the deliberate offender-- there are a number of them, and they are often well known at local level-- cannot be effectively dealt with. Such offenders should be branded, publicly, as criminals.
My comments refer to unauthorised development of buildings, to tipping and to gipsy sites. I want other hon. Members to have the opportunity to speak, so there is not time to detail the problems that we have had with gipsy sites in my constituency. An authorised site for two caravans exists but, since 1987, there have been up to 30 caravans on it at one time. That is not good enough, and it is not for want of the local authority's trying to get the law enforced. 9.10 pm
Mrs. Edwina Currie (Derbyshire, South) : I am glad to have the opportunity to speak about this important Bill. From what I have heard in the past five hours, I am one of the few Members of Parliament who, broadly speaking, welcomes development in my constituency, and is generally quite pleased about the changes happening in south Derbyshire.
Like the hon. Member for Barnsley, West and Penistone (Mr. McKay) opposite, my constituency used to be a coal-mining constituency and many of the old developments--for example, the pits and the clay-taking which took place at the same time and in the same place--occurred long before planning law. The result was a terrible mess in much of my area, and there are now a large number of planning applications to clear the land, which cover thousands of acres, which I welcome. The applications are to clear the tips and to clean up old clay areas, and often involve opencast mining for minerals such as coal, and gravel. I have therefore experienced all the problems that have been mentioned tonight. However, I am convinced that, if this work is done, the net result will be a great improvement in south Derbyshire.
As I listened to Opposition Members speaking tonight it occurred to me that, if they were a little less negative about some of the suggestions for their areas and a little more positive, they might have what we have managed to achieve in south Derbyshire, despite the closure of pits--an unemployment rate below the national average, and I hope we shall keep it there.
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Nor is it any accident that most of my colleagues on the Conservative Benches have spoken strongly about two major issues--enforcement and delay--and I shall give them some brief, but strong, support. It is apparent that we all share the same problem. I have to tell my hon. Friend the Minister that it is no use writing more legislation if we cannot get it enforced. We already have masses of planning legislation--more than the rest of the European Community put together, I suspect--but enforcement has turned out to be a problem that defeats many of our local councils.The gipsy problem is apparent in south Derbyshire. South Derbyshire district council is designated under the Caravan Sites Act 1968. There are only four gipsy sites in the county of Derbyshire, and two are in my constituency, which has been designated for years. We have all the powers that we are supposed to need, and all the powers that exist in English planning law to get gipsies off unauthorised sites, but it has proved to be virtually impossible to do so.
My hon. Friends will be familiar with what happens. Someone--a Mr. Smith-- buys a piece of land from an unsuspecting farmer. Overnight, a hard standing appears, as well as electricity, lighting, dogs and 24 caravans. Then it is heaven's own task to try to get these people off the land : residents will complain ; planning permission is applied for and turned down ; an appeal is submitted, which is turned down ; residents complain again ; an enforcement notice is served, which is accepted by the court ; an appeal is offered and goes through the courts ; and still nothing happens. Then residents complain again, and before we know it we are back in court.
In one example that I can think of, this process has taken four years to the point that I am describing. The local newspaper is having a campaign against the district council, carrying headlines saying, "Family to be moved off their own land, says council", when there have been nothing but complaints from local residents about the fact that the "family" and its cohorts should never have been there in the first place.
I to serve notice on my local council that, when the legislation is carried --either in its current form or, with the support of my hon. Friends, tightened up--it had jolly well better make use of it and get these people off land that they are not entitled to use in that way. We must bear in mind the fact that they are exercising rights that the rest of my constituents--most of whom pay their community charge and all their taxes-- do not have and feel aggrieved about. My other point concerns compensation. I am becoming convinced that my hon. Friends who have said that the compensation being offered under the Bill is not sufficient are probably right. That being the case, we give the Minister notice that, as well as coping with the Opposition's case, he may have to deal with pressure from his own side. I therefore hope that he will hearken to what has been said. The insufficiency of compensation is one of the main causes of the unhappiness, grief or distress that attend all planning applications in this country--especially major applications in respect of public works, such as the development of the Stoke-Derby M6-M1 link road, which will go right through my constituency, and in respect of which a planning inquiry is currently proceeding. That road is very necessary in the public interest --national as
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well as local. The current road is really just a country lane and is extremely dangerous. There have been several fatalities. So far as everyone is concerned, the sooner the new road is provided the better. The problem is that the financial and personal interests of a substantial number of people will be damaged. I am quite sure that, if the compensation scheme were as generous as possible, I could help to sell the project. I think I could persuade people that they would do well by withdrawing their objections--and there have been 40 major objections.However, it is not sufficient to have a good compensation scheme ; payments must be made as quickly as possible. The situation in respect of payments resulting from compulsory purchase orders leaves an enormous amount to be desired. I should be pleased to know whether the Minister has any plans to make local authorities, when they are involved, hurry up.
In south Derbyshire, many compulsory purchase orders are made as a result of property being made unfit through mining subsidence. It is typical for a compulsory purchase order to be granted and for the price to be agreed, but for the seller to have to wait several years for payment. I am currently dealing with cases in which people have waited three years for compensation, having lost their homes and been rehoused by the council. When the money is eventually paid, it will not be nearly sufficient to take account of the increase in house prices in the interim.
These poor people have been paying mortgages and have had to meet the cost of double glazing and so on. Interest has also accumulated. When the money comes eventually, it will not be sufficient, and these people will be left without homes, without a penny of equity, and with substantial debts. I am quite sure that, if compensation were paid more quickly, many of the problems would disappear. If that could be achieved by amending the Bill, I hope that my hon. Friend will consider introducing the necessary amendments.
I hope that many of the faults about which we have heard today will be put right by this legislation, into which so much effort has gone. The extent of the consultation has been admirable. If the Bill works, it will be a most sensible and worthwhile addition to our planning law.
9.17 pm
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