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Standing Committee have been reported to the House, the Bill be proceeded with as if the Bill had been reported as a whole to the House from the Standing Committee.-- [Mr. Maude.]

10.15 pm

Mr. Peter Bottomley (Eltham) : I beg to oppose the motion. For procedural reasons, I am speaking against the Government motion. I should, if I had been in order, have preferred to speak in favour of my instruction, but I understand that that is not possible.

I want to argue why clause 50 should be taken on the Floor of the House, and it may be for the convenience of the House if I do that fairly briefly.

It was a mistake for the Government to use the Budget in 1985 rather than primary legislation to achieve what they were after.-- [Interruption.]

Mr. Speaker : Order. Would hon. Members below the Gangway please either leave the Chamber or come in and sit quietly?

Mr. Bottomley : It would have been possible in a debate on the Floor of the House to argue that it might have been better for the Government to consult the Building Societies Association over what effect their regulations might have, rather than go through three sets of the law courts. It would be possible to argue in a Committee of the whole House that it has been a mistake for the Government to keep trying to change the law, and certainly it would be possible to argue that it was a mistake for the Government to keep the cash for five months after the House of Lords judgments on 25 October 1990. That may be a matter which could be dealt with in other ways. I have today referred the matter to the Parliamentary Commissioner. The difficulty that the House is in is that the House of Lords has judged very clearly that the House of Commons did not know what it was doing when it approved the amended regulations. The fact that the Revenue knew that the regulations by themselves were not sufficient is shown by the fact that they amended them.

Page 4 of the Building Societies Association letter could be quoted in a debate on the Floor of the House, where it says that the House of Lords held that there was a fundamental flaw in the

regulations--this is the important point which should be considered by the whole House--"consequent on the double taxation."

There is also, on page 3 of the letter from the Leeds Permanent building society to my right hon. Friend the Chancellor, the statement :

"In the unanimous opinion of the House of Lords, the retrospective Regulations tax twice."

There is a subsidiary issue as to whether subsequent regulations of the House allowed the Revenue to tax twice, and that I think is a matter for the whole House. I do not think that anyone in the House realised at the time that that was what was happening.

The final point, on page 4 of the Leeds letter, to which I would have referred if there had been a debate on the Floor of the House, is that the Inland Revenue's counsel argued in the House of Lords that he found it too embarrassing to defend the Government's windfall claim. That is a point which I was making to my hon. Friend the Financial Secretary more obliquely. The letter goes on to say that the counsel for the Revenue

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"told their Lordships that they should not ask themselves if this was just or unjust', but only whether Parliament had, by the 1986 retrospective amendment, decreed this state of affairs, just or unjust'."

It is clearly a matter for the whole House to decide whether it is just or unjust. That is why I argue that we ought to have clause 50 on the Floor of the House. However, if we cannot do it in a Committee of the whole House, we shall have to wait until the Standing Committee reports back to the House. Those are the words of Lord Oliver on page 9 of his judgment, Lord Goff on page 18 and Lord Lowry on page 25. Those seem to be points to which all hon. Members will want to refer.

My final point is one not of constitutional procedure but of politics. If each member of a building society loses £25 on average, there is the prospect of 10 million people writing to their Member of Parliament or to my right hon. Friends the Chancellor or the Prime Minister asking for their money back. That strikes me as rather inappropriate politics if we have a general election within the next year. My guess is that, on reconsideration, the Government will want either to change clause 50 or, preferably, to drop it. I hope that, between now and when the clause is debated, they will decide to do the latter.

The Financial Secretary to the Treasury (Mr. Francis Maude) rose --

Mr. Tim Smith (Beaconsfield) rose --

Mr. Speaker : Order. I am afraid that there can be only one speech against the committal motion.

Question put, pursuant to Standing Order No. 61 (Committal of Bills) :--

The House divided : Ayes 290, Noes 28.

Division No. 133] [10.20 pm

AYES

Adley, Robert

Aitken, Jonathan

Alison, Rt Hon Michael

Allason, Rupert

Amess, David

Amos, Alan

Arbuthnot, James

Arnold, Jacques (Gravesham)

Arnold, Sir Thomas

Ashby, David

Aspinwall, Jack

Atkinson, David

Baker, Rt Hon K. (Mole Valley)

Baker, Nicholas (Dorset N)

Baldry, Tony

Batiste, Spencer

Beaumont-Dark, Anthony

Beckett, Margaret

Bellingham, Henry

Bendall, Vivian

Bennett, Nicholas (Pembroke)

Biffen, Rt Hon John

Blackburn, Dr John G.

Blaker, Rt Hon Sir Peter

Boateng, Paul

Body, Sir Richard

Boscawen, Hon Robert

Boswell, Tim

Bottomley, Mrs Virginia

Bowden, A. (Brighton K'pto'n)

Bowden, Gerald (Dulwich)

Bowis, John

Boyson, Rt Hon Dr Sir Rhodes

Brandon-Bravo, Martin

Brazier, Julian

Bright, Graham

Brown, Michael (Brigg & Cl't's)

Browne, John (Winchester)

Bruce, Ian (Dorset South)

Buchanan-Smith, Rt Hon Alick

Buck, Sir Antony

Burns, Simon

Butterfill, John

Carlisle, John, (Luton N)

Carlisle, Kenneth (Lincoln)

Carrington, Matthew

Carttiss, Michael

Cash, William

Chalker, Rt Hon Mrs Lynda

Chapman, Sydney

Chope, Christopher

Churchill, Mr

Clark, Rt Hon Alan (Plymouth)

Clarke, Rt Hon K. (Rushcliffe)

Colvin, Michael

Coombs, Anthony (Wyre F'rest)

Coombs, Simon (Swindon)

Cope, Rt Hon John

Couchman, James

Cran, James

Currie, Mrs Edwina

Curry, David

Davies, Q. (Stamf'd & Spald'g)

Davis, David (Boothferry)

Day, Stephen

Devlin, Tim

Dixon, Don

Dorrell, Stephen

Douglas-Hamilton, Lord James

Dover, Den

Dunn, Bob

Durant, Sir Anthony

Dykes, Hugh

Emery, Sir Peter

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Column 267

Evans, David (Welwyn Hatf'd)

Evennett, David

Fairbairn, Sir Nicholas

Fallon, Michael

Favell, Tony

Fenner, Dame Peggy

Fishburn, John Dudley

Flynn, Paul

Fookes, Dame Janet

Forsyth, Michael (Stirling)

Foster, Derek

Fox, Sir Marcus

Freeman, Roger

French, Douglas

Fry, Peter

Gardiner, Sir George

Gill, Christopher

Gilmour, Rt Hon Sir Ian

Glyn, Dr Sir Alan

Golding, Mrs Llin

Goodhart, Sir Philip

Goodlad, Alastair

Goodson-Wickes, Dr Charles

Gorman, Mrs Teresa

Gorst, John

Grant, Sir Anthony (CambsSW)

Greenway, Harry (Ealing N)

Greenway, John (Ryedale)

Gregory, Conal

Griffiths, Peter (Portsmouth N)

Grist, Ian

Ground, Patrick

Grylls, Michael

Hague, William

Hamilton, Neil (Tatton)

Hampson, Dr Keith

Hannam, John

Hargreaves, A. (B'ham H'll Gr')

Hargreaves, Ken (Hyndburn)

Harris, David

Haselhurst, Alan

Hawkins, Christopher

Hayes, Jerry

Haynes, Frank

Hayward, Robert

Heseltine, Rt Hon Michael

Hicks, Mrs Maureen (Wolv' NE)

Higgins, Rt Hon Terence L.

Hill, James

Hind, Kenneth

Hogg, Hon Douglas (Gr'th'm)

Holt, Richard

Hordern, Sir Peter

Howard, Rt Hon Michael

Howarth, Alan (Strat'd-on-A)

Howarth, G. (Cannock & B'wd)

Howell, Rt Hon David (G'dford)

Howell, Ralph (North Norfolk)

Hunt, Rt Hon David

Hunt, Sir John (Ravensbourne)

Hurd, Rt Hon Douglas

Irvine, Michael

Jack, Michael

Jackson, Robert

Janman, Tim

Jessel, Toby

Johnson Smith, Sir Geoffrey

Jones, Robert B (Herts W)

Jopling, Rt Hon Michael

Key, Robert

Kilfedder, James

King, Roger (B'ham N'thfield)

King, Rt Hon Tom (Bridgwater)

Kirkhope, Timothy

Knight, Greg (Derby North)

Knight, Dame Jill (Edgbaston)

Knowles, Michael

Knox, David

Lang, Rt Hon Ian

Lawrence, Ivan

Lee, John (Pendle)

Leigh, Edward (Gainsbor'gh)

Lester, Jim (Broxtowe)

Lilley, Rt Hon Peter

Lloyd, Sir Ian (Havant)

Lord, Michael

Luce, Rt Hon Sir Richard

Lyell, Rt Hon Sir Nicholas

McCrindle, Sir Robert

MacGregor, Rt Hon John

MacKay, Andrew (E Berkshire)

Maclean, David

McNair-Wilson, Sir Patrick

Madel, David

Major, Rt Hon John

Malins, Humfrey

Mans, Keith

Maples, John

Marlow, Tony

Marshall, John (Hendon S)

Martin, David (Portsmouth S)

Martin, Michael J. (Springburn)

Maude, Hon Francis

Mellor, Rt Hon David

Meyer, Sir Anthony

Miller, Sir Hal

Mills, Iain

Miscampbell, Norman

Mitchell, Andrew (Gedling)

Moate, Roger

Monro, Sir Hector

Montgomery, Sir Fergus

Morris, M (N'hampton S)

Morrison, Sir Charles

Morrison, Rt Hon Sir Peter

Moss, Malcolm

Neale, Sir Gerrard

Needham, Richard

Nelson, Anthony

Neubert, Sir Michael

Nicholls, Patrick

Nicholson, David (Taunton)

Nicholson, Emma (Devon West)

Norris, Steve

Page, Richard

Paice, James

Patnick, Irvine

Patten, Rt Hon Chris (Bath)

Patten, Rt Hon John

Pattie, Rt Hon Sir Geoffrey

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