| Previous Section | Home Page |
Column 376
That is important, but it must also be a comprehensive system. A system is not working properly if it provides redress for some people but not for others. Our system of redress will not be satisfactory or comprehensive until it includes a no-fault compensation scheme. 7.52 pmSir Anthony Durant (Reading, West) : I am grateful for the opportunity to speak in the debate, because for a short time I was a member of the Select Committee on the Parliamentary Commissioner for Administration. Later, I joined the Whips Office, but I have now returned to the Select Committee. I am therefore a retread on the Committee.
On returning to the Select Committee, I was disappointed to find that some of the issues that I had raised before had not gone away. I wish to mention three, the first of which is literature. Some of the leaflets that the Government produce on people's rights or how to claim are written in gobbledegook. They have improved--they have some colour and some pictures and are looking better--but I used to lecture civil servants on the relationship between the Member of Parliament and the civil service. I used to take a leaflet from the nearest post office and read it to the civil servants. At the last lecture, I said, "This benefit leaflet is for an 80- year-old lady. Do you understand it, because I don't?"
If the literature is not right, it is not surprising that many people set off in the wrong direction in making their claim for benefit, and continue to go wrong. The Select Committee found that such problems occurred because people were given the wrong information. Improvements have been made, but this is one of my causes and I shall return to it again and again with the Select Committee until leaflets are produced that people can understand. My second disappointment is that we are still arguing about the vexed question of clinical judgment, about which I remember the Select Committee arguing with the British Medical Association. The BMA said that, if a surgeon operates on someone and finds something unexpected, he must make a decision on the spot. People understand that things sometimes go wrong, but the BMA said that we must not allow clinical judgment to be examined. The Committee said that, if the BMA wanted to keep out of the courts and avoid moving to the American system--medical litigation is widespread in America--it should let the ombudsman investigate such cases. We felt that that would be a safety valve.
The Select Committee accepted that a surgeon had human life in his hands, but I pointed out that so does an aircraft pilot. He probably has 300 people behind him. If he makes a mistake, 300 people may be killed. A pilot may have to appear before inquiries, so why should not doctors? I am disappointed that we have progressed little on that vexed question.
My third disappointment is the delay between a Member of Parliament making an application to the parliamentary commissioner and a decision being made. The parliamentary commissioner is working hard to reduce the delay, but it is still far too long. Employees of the health service and of district health authorities were cross-examined by the Select Committee, but were able to dodge by saying, "It wasn't us ; it was the previous people, who have left." That is not good enough. They read prepared briefs but cannot answer our questions and say,
Column 377
"The people have left." Insufficient improvement has been made in reducing delays. I know that the ombudsman takes this seriously and is working hard to speed up the process. The average Member of Parliament does not want to put a case to an ombudsman, because it takes so long.I shall continue to push for improvements in those three matters. On the whole, the system works well. We have been well served by parliamentary commissioners. They have always been of a high standard, have treated the Select Committee with respect and have used it to back up the problems they face. That is what is special about this country. In countries where the ombudsman has no Select Committee, he is on his own. The local government ombudsman does not have a Committee, although he might have a committee of councillors. However, they often have vested interests, so they are not as impartial as a Select Committee.
I welcome the debate as an excellent opportunity for us to discuss the work of the parliamentary commissioner. I wish him well in the future and I am sure that the Select Committee will back him and that we shall have satisfaction. I shall continue with my three issues--literature, clinical judgment and delay.
7.59 pm
Mr. Mike Watson (Glasgow, Central) : Like my colleagues who serve on the Select Committee, I welcome the opportunity to participate in the debate. I have been a member of the Select Committee for a little more than a year and I have found it interesting and enjoyable. I am still on a learning curve with regard to the full range of activities of the Parliamentary Commissioners for Administration and for the Health Service. However, my experience of the past year has shown me that it is especially valuable to have a Select Committee that can call to account senior managment in health authorities in England and Wales and in health boards in Scotland. I particularly welcome the fact that Scotland comes within the jurisdiction of the commissioner on health service issues. It might be possible to widen that role in terms of his general responsibility, although that remains to be examined.
Of the complaints investigated by the commissioner last year, about 700 were new complaints, which must be initiated by Members of Parliament and, last year, 371 of my colleagues took the opportunity to initiate cases. That is commendable, although it represents only just over half the hon. Members who had the opportunity to do so. There may be a possibility of increasing that number in the future. Recently, the commissioner circulated to all Members an explanatory leaflet drawing attention to his role and to what can be achieved. He did so for the benefit of those who were unaware of his role. We can hope for an increase in the number of cases dealt with in the years to come.
The hon. and learned Member for Colchester, North (Sir A. Buck)--who was about to leave the Chamber, but who has had a rethink--said in his opening remarks that each Member of Parliament is himself or herself an ombudsman. It is important to underline that role because it is missing in other countries that have an ombudsman. I understand that last year the number of cases dealt with by the Parliamentary Commissioner for Administration was just over 1,000. If we compare that with other countries, the number is rather small.
Column 378
In November last year members of the Select Committee had the opportunity to visit Denmark and Sweden to consider at close quarters the work of the ombudsman in those countries. It was interesting to learn that in 1989 in Denmark, for example, the ombudsman dealt with just over 2,000 cases from a population of 5 million. In Sweden, he dealt with 3,000 cases from a population of 8 million. Those figures seem out of kilter with the figures for the United Kingdom, at least for England and Wales, where there is a population of about 50 million.It must be understood that here Members of Parliament filter many cases and take them up directly with the authorities so that there is no need to take them further. There is no such system in Denmark or Sweden, partly as a result of their proportional representation system, which means that in many cases the individual does not know who his or her Member of Parliament is. There are no individual constituency Members of Parliament, so that would make such a system difficult. I am an advocate of proportional representation and it is important that when--I use that word advisedly--we move to a more proportional system we retain in some form the link between the Member of Parliament and his or her constituency. There is clear value in that.
Mr. William Ross (Londonderry, East) : As the hon. Member for Glasgow, Central (Mr. Watson) is speaking from a theoretical rather than a practical knowledge of proportional representation, of which some of us have more experience, I advise him to stick to his strictly first-past-the- post system, which is far superior.
Mr. Watson : With respect, I reject the advice of the hon. Member for Londonderry, East (Mr. Ross). There are many examples of proportional representation producing a much more effective system of government than we have in this country.
Mr. David Trimble (Upper Bann) : STV is the worst form of PR.
Mr. Watson : I do not want to get into that debate. I am not advocating a single transferable vote. I regard that system as no fairer than the current system.
I shall return to our visit to Denmark and Sweden. There is an interesting aspect to the role of the ombudsman in both countries. He has the right to initiate cases as well as to receive them from various bodies. In practice, the numbers that the ombudsman initiated were fairly small--about 70 in Denmark and about 160 in Sweden. There is an open door which might be of value to our ombudsman if he had the opportunity to take up cases that came to his attention in some way other than through a Member of Parliament. I am not advocating the idea that an individual should be able to take a case to the ombudsman--I believe that the filter of the Member of Parliament should remain.
Although we are not dealing in detail with the role of the ombudsman for Northern Ireland, it is interesting to read his report. I have met Dr. Maurice Hayes a few times and I know that he chooses his words carefully. In his report he said that he "invited sponsorship" in some cases. That is constructive because in Northern Ireland Members of Parliament must also channel cases to him. However, there have been a number of cases in which he has contacted a Member of Parliament to say that a case might
Column 379
be worthy of examination. There might be a similar role for the Parliamentary Commissioner for Administration in England and Wales in the future. It is an idea to which the Select Committee might wish to give some thought.Another area--perhaps a controversial one--in which the ombudsman might develop his activity involves his ability to investigate the police. In Denmark and Sweden, that role falls within the ombudsman's remit. We have a Police Complaints Authority, but there is some disquiet about the way in which police forces tend to investigate each other when there are complaints. That is unsatisfactory. Perhaps there is a role for the commissioner to consider complaints made by members of the public about the behaviour of the police. I shall give a couple of examples that arose in our discussions with our Swedish and Danish counterparts.
Perhaps the most noteworthy case that was referred to the Swedish ombudsman in recent years involved the behaviour of the Swedish police following the tragic murder of Prime Minister Olof Palme in 1986. The way that the investigation was carried out was considered in detail by the commissioner and his recommendations were not kind to the police. There was also an interesting case which may open a door that would be difficult to close in this country. There were a number of complaints made in Stockholm following a Sweden-England football match when the Swedish police cordoned off areas of the city and denied access even to residents of those areas. One can imagine the fuss about that. It was within the remit of the ombudsman to investigate and he did so amid considerable publicity, which is no bad thing.
There was an even more remarkable case in Denmark. Largely as the result of an investigation of the way in which immigrants were treated while they were held in police custody pending consideration of their status, a Government Minister was forced to resign because of evidence that emerged against him. They may not be typical cases, but they show that there is a role for an independent investigator of cases referred to him relating to police activity. The Select Committee should consider discussing with the ombudsman and with other interested parties whether we should broaden his remit in such a way.
I shall also comment on the ombudsman's role as the Health Service Commissioner. In the year to March 1991, about 990 cases were received by the commissioner, which is a record. Only about 15 per cent. of them were found to be worthy of investigation, but it is pleasing to note, particularly in light of the remarks of my hon. Friend the Member for Peckham (Ms. Harman), that the numbers are increasing. That is partly due to the fact that the Government widely circulated leaflets about the national health service reforms over the past two years. Those leaflets appear to have brought to people's attention the fact that they have the right to complain through the commissioner.
The main issue to come to my attention in the Select Committee was the discharge arrangements that apply in hospitals. We heard about some pretty horrific cases and we subjected the health service managers whom we asked to appear before us to some fairly strong questioning and we did not by any means receive satisfactory answers to all those questions. It was part of the Select Committee's remit to demand that the health authorities and health
Column 380
boards that we questioned should report back to us on how they had improved their procedures as a result of our suggestions. It is also important to note that more than 50 per cent. of the cases investigated were upheld.The health service ombudsman can investigate the NHS trusts that are now subject to some controversy. I hope that my colleagues on the Conservative Benches will not think that I am trying to make political capital out of this. In the near future the trusts at Guy's hospital or at Bradford royal infirmary might be investigated in terms of maladministration. At Guy's there is certainly prima facie evidence that there may be maladministration in terms of the general manager's contract and conditions of service and with regard to the substantial loss of 600 or 700 jobs. It is at least comforting to know that the commissioner has a role in investigating the trusts and that the trusts remain accountable, albeit in a more remote sense than some of us would like.
I have directed my remarks to the way in which the commissioner's role may develop. The commissioner has a role to play in Scotland. The local health councils in Scotland, which are equivalent to community health councils in England and Wales, have recently been reorganised. Those local health councils have been the subject of controversy because they have been significantly decreased in number and in terms of the number of people who serve on them. I am not alone in believing that their effectiveness will be reduced. Their ability to criticise health boards will certainly be reduced. The Scottish Home and Health Department believes that the local health councils should not come within the remit of the Health Service Commissioner. It is said that they are not involved in the provision of health services. That is true, but they provide advice and assistance to patients and they are now closely linked to the health boards in Scotland. The health boards appoint the local health councils. Previously they were representative of local communities, but that is no longer the case. They will be much less likely to criticise the health boards because they are appointed by them. The Scottish Home and Health Department and the Government cannot have it both ways. They have severely reduced the independence of the local health councils, which are now virtually adjuncts of the Scottish health boards. Therefore, they should be subject to the scrutiny of the Health Service Commissioner. They must submit annual work programmes and reports. They are accountable to the health boards and, in the same way as the health boards themselves are accountable to the commissioner, the local health councils should also be accountable.
The average man or woman in the street does not know enough about the role of the ombudsman. I must be honest : when I became a Member of this place I had only the vaguest notion of the ombudsman's role and how, if I had to, I could contact him to make a complaint. Debates like this help to raise the ombudsman's profile, although not as an individual--I am sure that Mr. Reid would not want that. However, his role must become more widely known. The more publicity we can get for that the better. Since Mr. Reid took over his post, he has publicised his role among Members of Parliament and that publicity must now be widened. It is incumbent on all Members of Parliament to use the ombudsman with regard to constituents' complaints and we must ensure that our constituents are aware of the services that are available. I
Column 381
welcome my role on the Select Committee and I look forward to continuing and developing that role in the years to come.8.14 pm
Mr. Michael Lord (Suffolk, Central) : Like the hon. Member for Glasgow, Central (Mr. Watson), I am a relatively new member of the Select Committee on the Parliamentary Commissioner for
Administration. I welcome this debate and the opportunity to consider our Committee's work. It is far from being the most famous Select Committee, although the ombudsman's role is becoming more widely recognised. However, the Committee does an enormous amount of important and useful work and it is gratifying that this debate recognises that fact.
I commend to the House the work of the Parliamentary Commissioner, Mr. Reid, and his team. His job demands a mixture of qualities--a combination of administrative speed and legal precision that is not always easy to achieve. It includes concern for people combined with scrupulous fairness and the ability to produce accurate, concise and, as the hon. Member for Peckham (Ms. Harman) said, readable conclusions. That is absolutely crucial for the people who have made the complaints. From my experience on the Committee so far, all those things are achieved and it is no mean feat to pull together all those qualities.
The relationship between Members of Parliament and their constituents is unique. In a sense, we are all ombudsmen. We deal with a vast majority of problems in our constituencies and we involve the ombudsman only when we believe that we cannot take the matter any further. That gives hon. Members an enormous degree of job satisfaction and in the main it serves our constituents well. The ombudsman's role has now become accepted as part of our democratic framework. The ombudsman played a crucial role in issues of national importance such as the Barlow Clowes affair. However, at the same time, the ombudsman regularly deals with hundreds of smaller problems which, although smaller in a national context, are no less important to the people concerned.
In other countries the ombudsman plays a much larger role in the nation's affairs and some would argue that he should do so here. The Select Committee recently visited Scandinavia and saw at first hand the work of the ombudsmen there ; they have a much more comprehensive brief and a freer hand in many ways. The hon. Member for Glasgow, Central mentioned the sheer number of cases dealt with in Scandinavia as compared with the number of cases in this country.
Ombudsmen in Scandinavia are allowed to investigate more areas than our commissioners and they can initiate inquiries. That is something that we should consider here. In one of the countries that we visited, the ombudsman's office had a team whose job it was to scrutinise the papers daily to see whether there were issues that should be investigated. I am not sure whether that is the right approach, but perhaps we might at least consider giving our ombudsman a slightly freer hand.
I refer briefly to the question of people versus systems. The enormous value of the concept of the ombudsman is that it highlights the role and responsibility of the individual in the complex administrative frameworks that
Column 382
we have created to run our country's life. At the end of the day, people make systems work. Systems may help or they may hinder, depending on how well they are designed, but people run them and are responsible for them. Too much reliance on systems and managerial frameworks rather than on personal responsibility can be disastrous. The other factor that bedevils any system, and which has become one of my pet hates over the years, is jargon. It seems that some committees can hold entire conversations using only initials or titles that are meaningless to anyone outside that close professional circle. May I make a plea for plain speaking and simple language that everyone can understand?I suppose that "The Parliamentary Commissioner for Administration" is rather a long title ; perhaps, in comparison with the simple word ombudsman, it could even be termed jargon. Much dearer to my heart, however, is the word matron. Let me deal briefly with the matron, who comes within the ambit of the Health Service Commissioner. In days gone by, the title and role of matrons was clearly understood. With the 1960s and 1970s came changes in structures, job specifications and titles which I believe have not proved helpful in many cases. The position of matrons has become obscured. It is time to bring it back--not just back, but right into the foreground of nursing. Some time ago, I tabled an early-day motion--which attracted more than 100 signatures--supporting that idea. Hon. Members may know that my hon. Friend the Member for Birmingham, Edgbaston (Dame J. Knight) has also been campaigning to reintroduce the matron. Since then, I have talked to colleagues and constituents, all of whom seem to agree with me.
I am sure that the Chairman of our Select Committee will bear me out when I say that, time after time, we ask witnesses whether, had one person been solely responsible for nursing care, the problem would have arisen ; and, more often than not, the answer is no. The role, responsibility and title of matron were clearly understood. She was the person who could talk to consultants and doctors ; she understood the needs of patients ; and, as a trained nurse herself, she could manage her nurses with efficiency and understanding. Every nursing unit should have a matron in charge, and "matron" must be her title.
Let me quote from one of the various notes that I have received from the Department of Health. Advising hospitals about how to run their affairs, it states :
"The professional head of nursing for the whole of the Unit may be called a Director of Nursing Services or a Matron".
I suggest to my hon. Friend the Minister that "may" is not good enough, and that these titles are confusing. My hon. Friend smiles and I understand why : in many ways the topic is amusing. None the less, it goes to the heart of many of the problems that we encounter in the Select Committee, notably the understanding of roles and responsibilities on the part of those who are responsible and of those whom they are serving. I repeat my plea : let us have our matron back.
I have been in correspondence with various nursing organisations and I received a letter from the Sheffield and North Trent college of nursing and midwifery, which agrees entirely with what I am saying. The principal writes :
"It may be of interest to note that in Sheffield the designation Matron has been retained by the Northern General Hospital, one of the first wave of NHS Trusts and has been introduced into the Doncaster Royal Infirmary
Column 383
Montagu Hospital Trust. I would accept that the term has fallen into misuse over the years, but I do agree that it is readily understood by the public."Again, let me plead with my hon. Friend the Minister. Let us not have the word "may" ; let us press all our hospitals, and all organisations where nursing takes place, to reintroduce the matron and give her that title.
Having, I think, made that point as strongly as I can, I turn briefly to the entirely different question of court administration. Some time ago, on behalf of one of my constituents, I had cause to write to the Lord Chancellor about a case that had been brought to my attention. A man was contesting a divorce case. The solicitors on both sides and the client all agreed that a certain length of time would need to be taken by the court. Unfortunately, the court disagreed, saying that it would not need that much time, and a shorter period was allocated. In the event, the case needed the amount of time that the two solicitors had said that it would need and the two clients suffered both inconvenience and considerable financial loss as a result.
When I sought redress for my constituent, I encountered all sorts of problems from the Lord Chancellor's Department. I had great difficulty establishing exactly whose responsibility it was to decide such matters. Following a considerable amount of correspondence I have now heard from the Lord Chancellor's Department, which tells me that the allocation of time for cases is seen as a judicial decision and cannot be challenged in any way. What can be challenged is the administration of those decisions--in other words, the way in which witnesses are dealt with, messengers are sent and paperwork is handled.
In some ways, that is a step forward, but I am still unhappy that the allocation of time for cases cannot be challenged, even when so much inconvenience is involved. Moreover--although the Lord Chancellor's Department has made changes that took effect from 1 January this year--our ombudsman, who is allowed to look into the administrative side of court listings, still cannot examine the position of tribunal staff and their workings or investigate the Scottish courts.
Let me return to my opening remarks about the power and influence of our ombudsman and the question of widening his remit. Conservative Members would, I think, argue that the best way in which to run organisations that are not profit-oriented--such as the health service and the civil service-- is to use the private enterprise system, or what we might sometimes describe as enlightened self-interest. Opposition Members may say that such organisations can be run efficiently by means of a system of brotherly or sisterly concern ; but perhaps the best safeguard for the interests of the general public is a healthy respect for the powers and sphere of influence of a well-established and well-known ombudsman.
Like other hon. Members who have spoken, I much enjoy participating in the work of the Committee, which I consider very valuable. In my experience, all our witnesses--whoever they may be--are robustly questioned ; and not just questioned, but sent away to bring back answers and, if need be, to effect changes in their sphere of responsibility. As I said earlier, I am delighted that we are holding this debate, which has recognised the valuable work that the commissioner does.
Column 384
8.26 pmMr. William Ross (Londonderry, East) : We have before us a great many papers, which are listed on the Order Paper. Each of the four reports would merit its own debate, rather than their being knocked together for consideration in a debate lasting less than half a day--and such debates happen all too rarely at that.
We also have before us reports prepared by the ombudsman in his various guises in different parts of the United Kingdom, and the responses to them ; and Select Committee reports. Currently serving on the Select Committee are the hon. and learned Member for Colchester, North (Sir A. Buck), the hon. Members for Blyth Valley (Mr. Campbell), for Southport (Mr. Fearn), for Ashfield (Mr. Haynes), for Ipswich (Mr. Irvine), for Rugby and Kenilworth (Mr. Pawsey), for Glasgow, Central (Mr. Watson), for Suffolk, Central (Mr. Lord) and for Reading, West (Sir A. Durant). The previous members, since the start of the current Parliament, have been the hon. Members for Leicestershire, North-West (Mr. Ashby), for Wansdyke (Mr. Aspinwall), for Stratford-on-Avon (Mr. Howarth) and for Richmond, Yorks (Mr. Hague).
All those people served as Members representing constituencies in Great Britain ; not one was a Northern Ireland Member. They will understand--many are not simply political acquaintances, but personal friends of mine--that I am not criticising them when I say that they have been reared, and have lived both their parliamentary and their personal lives, in circumstances that are in many ways entirely different from ours, governed by entirely different administrative arrangements. Yet it is they who go to Northern Ireland to take evidence and to try to reach conclusions on what has been said. No matter how worthy and hard-working Great Britain Members may be, I do not think that they really grasp the nuances of life in Northern Ireland, which means that, far too often, they do not ask the questions that we who represent the Province believe should be asked. We think that answers to those questions should be winkled out of the officials concerned, and even out of the ombudsman in his various guises, whether they like it or not. I would much have preferred to ask questions of an ombudsman who deals with affairs in Northern Ireland rather than to ask such questions of an ombudsman who also has to look after the affairs of the constituency of, for example, the hon. Member for Ashfield. I might not know very much about a mining community, but the hon. Gentleman would, and he would be better at asking such questions.
It is for that reason that I hope that the Government will look again at the question of establishing a Select Committee for Northern Ireland, which is vital and long overdue. In the absence of such a Committee, I hope that the Government will consider replacing Members from Great Britain--at least temporarily--with at least one Member from Northern Ireland whenever a Committee investigates matters relating to Northern Ireland. Frankly, the questions that need to be asked are not being asked, and we are not getting the answers we need. We will not do so without a Select Committee for Northern Ireland. At the very least, Members from Northern Ireland should serve on Committees that ask questions in or about the Province, or even of the Northern Ireland Office.
On page (iv) of the second report by the Select Committee for the Parliamentary Commissioner for
Column 385
Administration for Northern Ireland, I particularly welcome the comment that the Committee intends to examine "in due course" the annual report of the ombudsman for Northern Ireland, which was published on 31 January this year. As it happens, the Committee was in Northern Ireland in January, looking at the previous reports. When the Committee examines the report which has been handed to us today, I hope that it will contain a Member from Northern Ireland who can ask the questions that need to be asked.We read :
"more complaints were made about planning than any other matter", but we then read that the number of planning complaints was "remarkably few." This is the first point on which hon. Members from Great Britain got it wrong. Nobody in Northern Ireland complains about a planning application that is granted. Rows arise about the small percentage of applications that are refused and in those cases where the fellow goes ahead with the development anyway. Such people often drive not only a team of four through the application, but half a dozen teams of four, and get away with it.
The sooner that that nonsense is stopped and we make such people take down the buildings that they have erected, often at great expense, and try by blackmailing the Government to allow them to stay, the better. That transgression of the planning laws will not stop until the transgressors are dealt with harshly. Heaven help the first, but there will be no more transgressors after that, because one has to take action only once or twice for folk to get the idea. We also read that Dr. Hayes is intent on
"resolving cases, where possible, without a formal investigation." I agree with that because, where there has been a slight misdemeanour, a quiet word will do more good than wielding the big stick. However, the commissioner in Northern Ireland sometimes seems to have been too willing to accept the assertions of officialdom instead of listening more carefully to the complainant.
In future, I hope that the complainant's word will be given considerably more weight and that, where there is a conflict of evidence or of understanding about what words actually mean, the person carrying out the investigation on behalf of the ombudsman's office will go back to check and, if necessary, will carry the matter forward into a formal investigation without any further ado. Officialdom sometimes gets away with things rather too easily. I am also concerned about the long periods which sometimes elapse between start and end of an investigation. It is said that 11 months is now the average period for an investigation, but I can think of a few that have lasted rather longer and where I was still not all that happy about the conclusion. I hope that some effort will be made to deal with cases rather more speedily. Paragraph 9 refers to having "adequate legal advice". I hope that the ombudsman will try to get that, because the ombudsman's office in Northern Ireland needs good legal advice as soon as possible.
I am happy to note that the ombudsman will be able to spend rather more money in the future than has been the case in the past. Adequate resources are needed to carry out investigations into what are sometimes serious allegations.
Column 386
I am concerned about the allegation in paragraph 15 that the ombudsman would like to be able to investigate a case that may be "just over the fence" from an investigation that he is carrying out. I am curious about the meaning of the phrase "just over the fence". I should have liked the ombudsman to set out his thinking rather more clearly and to know exactly what he was trying to say.Was he saying that, if he is investigating a case and sees something associated with it but just beyond the scope of his current investigation, he cannot go into it unless there is a further complaint? If so, that would simply delay matters longer. I should like a clear explanation.
Paragraph 17 states :
"We recommended that the Government examine the possibility of establishing a separate Health Service Commissioner for Northern Ireland."
We then read :
"Nevertheless, the Department of Health and Social Services pointed out to him that his powers were, in some ways, wider than those of the Health Service Commissioners".
That may well be the case, but I suspect that the ombudsman's powers are very different from those of the Health Service Commissioners. I hope that the Select Committee will look into this again and adhere to its original recommendation that there should be a commissioner.
I could say a great deal more, but I hope that my hon. Friend the Member for Upper Bann (Mr. Trimble) will catch your eye later, Mr. Deputy Speaker, because I know that he has some complaints to make. I should now like to draw the House's attention to the annual report for 1990. Two of the important cases to which it refers arose in my constituency and were brought to the commissioner's attention by me. Those two cases caused me some heartache. One relates to patent searches and to complaints about LEDU --the Local Enterprise Development Unit in Northern Ireland--and the ISD-- the Industrial Science Laboratory in Northern Ireland. To some extent, the questions that were raised remain unanswered. I am exceedingly unhappy about these cases, and it is for that reason, as much as for any other, that I hope that, the next time round, an hon. Member from Northern Ireland will be present so that the right questions can be asked. I am concerned about another case--No. PC 148/88, which relates to an individual who alleged that he had sustained an injustice as a result of maladministration by the Department of Agriculture in relation to the slaughter of cattle. The case led to considerable loss for my constituent. The account of it covers six pages of the report, from which one can see immediately that it was a fairly major, long-winded and detailed investigation. It ended with my constituent receiving a small amount of monetary compensation, but the amount fell far short of compensating him for the heartache and mental anguish that he has suffered since the allegation was made that he had administered illegal drugs to his cattle. In fact, he was one of the leading opponents in Northern Ireland of the administration of that drug. The fact that he was found not guilty of that practice in relation to his second group of cattle sent to the abattoir is some consolation to him, but not very much.
When one comes across cases such as the two that I have mentioned, one wonders where we should draw the line relating to the powers and responsibilities of the commissioner. We are now overdue in taking another
Column 387
long, hard look at the powers of the commissioner and at his investigative authority. We should try to sort out once and for all a system that is more effective than the present system, without going so far into legalities that we become involved in endless legal wrangles. That is a difficult line to assess but we need to take another look at it.8.39 pm
Mr. William Cash (Stafford) : I was interested in the final point made by the hon. Member for Londonderry, East (Mr. Ross) about whether we should engage in ceaseless legal wrangling. I say that as a lawyer, and for this reason. When we are deciding whether people should have redress of grievance--fundamentally that is one of the most important aspects of the function of this House of Parliament--we should not be deprived of the opportunity to make complaints on behalf of our constituents simply because they fall on one side or other of a line that has been drawn as a matter of law. From reading the Committee's reports, it seems that the office of the ombudsman does a remarkably good job. However, even that office becomes a little precise in the way in which it adjudicates. I know that it does a good job and that it does its best. However, we should address ourselves to the intrinsic quality and efficacy of the case in question.
I have two cases in my constituency. One is that of a Mr. Gane. He has had what I regard as a thoroughly raw deal. He was
court-martialled many years ago. He is a first-class constituent and a man for whom I have the greatest respect. He has persistently sought to have his case reviewed by the Ministry of Defence. I have had a series of replies from Ministers. There is a voluminous file of correspondence on the case. There are all sorts of reasons why Mr. Gane's case cannot be given the consideration that I feel that it deserves. At the bottom line, without going into all the details--they are all on file--Mr. Gane has had a raw deal. I should like to feel that this House and the officials who are responsible for examining cases such as his could give that bit of extra attention to it. I should like to feel that they would not simply go over the facts again and come up with much the same answer.
I look to the Minister and those who have influence with him to take yet another look at Mr. Gane's case. It is time that he obtained the discharge which he would like and which I would like on his behalf. One vote in a constituency will not make very much difference, but there are times when people come into one's surgery whom one knows have had a raw deal. I feel strongly that Mr. Gane deserves a little more justice.
The case of another of my constituents, Mr. Kent, is rather different. He is now a pensioner but was previously employed in east Africa. I have had a lot of correspondence with my hon. and learned Friend the Member for Colchester, North (Sir A. Buck) about the case. My constituent was employed before legislation was passed which would give him a larger pension than he receives now. The details of the case are well known to officials in the Foreign Office. Without going into all the details, let me say that Mr. Kent has not had a fair deal. There does not seem to be any reason why a pensioner who worked in colonial administration before certain Acts of Parliament were passed should not receive the justice which applies to civil servants now receiving pensions--
Column 388
sometimes, dare I say it, inflated pensions. My constituent, who in his own time did exactly the same job as those who receive larger pensions, is living in reduced circumstances simply because a line was drawnThe case of Mr. Kent reminds me of the old Court of Requests. People would go to someone like Sir Thomas More and say, "I have had a raw deal. There has been inequity. Do you not think that I should be given extra consideration? The line of the law has been drawn, but I have a case and I want redress of grievance." One would go to either the Court of Requests or Parliament. One would probably obtain justice. It was perhaps a little rough, but none the less one obtained it.
At the bottom of all the reports, the voluminous correspondence that underpins them and the good work that the office does--I make no complaint about that--I sometimes wonder whether the reasonableness that lies at the heart of justice is overlooked because we look at the minutiae of the law. In my correspondence with my hon. and learned Friend the Member for Colchester, North, the Chairman of the Select Committee on the Parliamentary Commissioner for Administration, I have raised the case of Mr. Kent on several occasions. My hon. and learned Friend replied that, although he would have liked to help, unfortunately he could not because the law did not provide for him to do so. One then looks to the law and asks whether Parliament will pass a new Act. Parliament will not pass an Act to help Mr. Kent. I should like to think that it would, but it will not. So we should consider in the context of this annual report whether more discretion should be allowed in cases such as those I have mentioned. I have only two cases in my constituency which come to mind, but I suspect that there are many more in the United Kingdom where a little extra flexibility would help to produce the redress of grievance and justice that people deserve.
I have put the two cases from my constituency before the House. Officials in the relevant Departments know exactly what I am talking about. Each case deserves a debate in its own right. With regard to Mr. Kent, I was intrigued to see that under the heading "Foreign and Commonwealth Office" in appendix A the report says : "See under HO." I take that to mean the Home Office. I then looked at the appendix which deals with complaints. I have not the faintest idea whether the complaint that I have in mind appears in that convoluted appendix, but I do know that people such as my constituents deserve a little more attention than they have received.
I do not expect the Minister who is on duty this evening to deal in his reply with the cases that I have mentioned, but I do ask that those cases, which are well known to the relevant Departments, are properly investigated and that my constituents are given a fair deal.
8.47 pm
Mr. Ronnie Fearn (Southport) : I have been a member of the Select Committee on the Parliamentary Commissioner for Administration for four years. I have also been a local councillor for 22 years. During those years I have written many times to the local ombudsman. I always regarded the parliamentary ombudsman as rather a mysterious person in a mysterious office. When I became a member of the Select Committee, I found that we had a hard-working, hard-hitting Committee and certainly one which was exciting at times. It is so exciting that the television
Column 389
cameras should come in some time. Not only one aspect or item but a variety of events is often dealt with, especially when the health service is being considered. Broadcasters would find it interesting. I do not want the cameras to come into the Committee because we crave for television. I want the public to see what really goes on in the ombudsman's office. The present Parliamentary Commissioner for Administration is excellent and previous commissioners were also excellent. They give us good answers, which everyone deserves to know about. At times, radio has picked up one or two items and the public have been grateful. The public are only just becoming aware of the work of the ombudsman and are beginning to use their Member of Parliament in the right way.There is still confusion between the functions of the local ombudsman and those of the parliamentary ombudsman. Perhaps the problem can be cleared up in the future. The extent to which the services are being used is indicated by the figures. There are about 1,000 cases on the books. Of those, perhaps 500 will be rejected. The numbers vary. At a meeting of the Select Committee I asked what happened to cases that had been rejected. After all, the people concerned make sane and sensible complaints. The Parliamentary Commissioner said that complaints were not rejected out of hand, but were passed to others who could provide advice and help. The citizens advice bureaux take on board items that have been rejected by the parliamentary ombudsman. The Members of Parliament involved get the same sort of service through other organisations.
One third of all complaints concern social security. As other hon. Members have said, the main social security complaints arise from misleading forms and leaflets. In that respect, I think that the parliamentary commissioner is beginning to get the position rectified. Ordinary people are now much better able to understand the leaflets. Other matters about which large numbers of complaints are received concern the Inland Revenue, the environment, transport, trade and industry, and employment. I was very surprised to see in the latest report a reference to a complaint about the National Rivers Authority. As the NRA is a very new body, the complainant and the Member of Parliament were rather quick off the mark. Complaints are also received about defence and data protection. Indeed, the whole range of parliamentary business is covered.
Public awareness has been increased. At the request of the Select Committee, the commissioner has issued 150,000 leaflets, many of which are now to be found in libraries and in the premises of citizens advice bureaux and other organisations. They will help to remove some of the confusion and the veil of secrecy that people perceive to hang over the ombudsman's office. When we visited Canada, we found that the public there were aware of the system. It was not a joy trip by any means ; we covered 11,000 miles in seven days. Indeed, at one time we lost the Chairman. He was talking to a group of people about the work of the ombudsman and missed the plane. However, he caught up at the next stop. The Canadian system is efficient. But, of course, so is ours. I missed the trip to Scandinavia--if one may call it a trip--but I understand that the same sort of efficiency is to be found there. Indeed, efficiency is to be found throughout the world. As ombudsmen meet internationally, albeit not on a formal
Column 390
basis, we may see such systems develop throughout the world. It seems to me that there will soon be a Euro- ombudsman.The Select Committee was aware of the efficiency of the office in respect of the Barlow Clowes case. Practically every Member of Parliament received letters about that affair. I received 27 complaints. The matter was resolved very satisfactorily. We are very grateful for the work that the commissioner's office did. Of the money that was lost, 90 per cent. has been paid back.
Health service complaints constitute one of the most interesting aspects of the commissioner's work. They cover a variety of items, including the procedures for the discharge of elderly people from hospital. The Committee heard from people about health authorities whose procedures were very wrong. In some instances, relatives brought complaints rather timidly but had their cases upheld. I am thinking, for instance, of situations in which people died within a few days of their discharge from hospital. Then there is the recording of falls or of untoward incidents. I recall the terrible case of a lady amputee being left to go to the toilet alone, falling off the toilet, and lying for quite some time before being found. That was one of many cases. Another matter that comes to our attention is the training of staff in the handling of bereavement. It is vital that hospital staff be given proper training. The matter has been highlighted by the office and by the Select Committee. Then there is the question of setting up local complaints procedures. We have community health councils and other bodies, but local complaints procedures need to be examined very closely.
One case that comes to mind concerns a mentally disturbed hospital patient whose money was used to buy seven pairs of trousers. We thought that that was amazing. An investigation revealed that the money had simply been used very carelessly. Clearly, the person concerned did not need seven pairs of trousers. One of the most important facts to have emerged during my four years on the Committee is that various hospitals hold £67.7 million of patients' money. The money is held in the patients' names, and relatives have the right to decide what should happen to it. Many of those patients are incapable of going out into the community, and the money should be--and is--used for their benefit. The Southport and Formby health authority does excellent work. A young man in Greaves Hall hospital was very keen on Elvis Presley--so keen, indeed, that it was his life. His money was used to send him to an Elvis convention in America, and he has never stopped thinking and talking about it. In my opinion, that was a good use of his money. The enormous sum of money that I have mentioned--£67.7 million--must be closely guarded. This is a matter that should come within the scope of the parliamentary commissioner. There is still confusion about the titles of hospital staff--ward sisters, ward managers and matrons. Administrative posts, too, seem to vary from one place to another, even though the people concerned do the same jobs. Committee witnesses, as well as Committee members, seemed to be confused about the grading system. Perhaps pressure from the Committee and the commissioner will result in this problem being cleared up.
The loss of records is another serious problem that keeps cropping up. I believe that the system is being tightened, but there have been instances of junior doctors--they were and still are extremely overworked--taking home work. Once some records were found in a junior
| Next Section
| Home Page |