House of Commons Hansard Debates for 15 May 1991

Mr. Dewar : Does the Secretary of State's silence following the request of my hon. Friend the Member for Glasgow, Shettleston (Mr. Marshall) mean that he is still refusing to meet the Glasgow Labour Members to discuss employment? Will he consider that in February, in the Government's public expenditure plans, he predicted that

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the number of adults entering employment training would fall this year from 47,000 to 30,000? Does he recall that on page 30 of "Serving Scotland's Needs" he claimed that this reflected "the fact that, as a result of falling unemployment and improved labour market conditions, demand for Employment Training places continues to decline"?

As unemployment in Scotland has risen every month since then--a trend which is sadly and disastrously likely to continue--will he explain how he justifies the cuts?

Mr. Lang : With regard to the hon. Gentleman's request that I should meet the Glasgow Members, I shall certainly be happy to meet them to discuss employment and unemployment. As to the numbers joining training schemes, the hon. Gentleman will know that the number of young school leavers joining training schemes is estimated to fall by 4 per cent. this year. The number of long-term unemployed, for whom employment training is particularly designed, has fallen by 18 per cent. in the year to January 1991, a fall twice as fast in Scotland as elsewhere in the United Kingdom. It is clearly sensible that such changes in the client group for the schemes should be reflected in their planning.

Mr. Oppenheim : How can we take Labour's protests about unemployment seriously when just over two years ago its union friends sold out workers in Dundee to keep the boys in Dagenham happy?

Mr. Lang : My hon. Friend is right. I hope that the people of Dundee and the people of Scotland will never forget the dramatic damage to Scotland's inward investment record as a result of the Labour party's activities and especially those of the trade union movement.

Several Hon. Members rose--

Mr. Speaker : Order. We are making rather slow progress. I now propose to proceed more rapidly than we have been doing.

USSR Markets

9. Mr. Wray : To ask the Secretary of State for Scotland if he will make a statement about Her Majesty's Government's support for the Scottish and Glasgow business community and workers to open the markets of the Soviet republics and union to Scottish goods and services.

Mr. Allan Stewart : The Government provide a range of services to enable the business community to begin or expand their sales efforts in the Soviet Union. We are very happy to support efforts based on sound commercial judgment.

Mr. Wray : The Minister will be aware that Glasgow district council is concerned about export credit grants and about the Cabinet's decision possibly to introduce a Bill to privatise the Export Credits Guarantee Department. Are we to have a pathetic apology from the Minister for the state of the Department of Trade and Industry figures which show that in 1979 the total number of insolvencies was 344, but that at the end of 1990 there were 4,756?

Mr. Stewart : Questions on ECGD cover are properly the responsibility of my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Trade and Industry who has to draw a balance

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between providing support for project exports and the cost to the taxpayer of doing so. As for the efforts of Glasgow district council, I reassure the hon. Gentleman that the Government try to ensure that Scotland's efforts are properly co-ordinated. The Secretary of State for Trade and Industry is not unwilling to grant consent for international trade promotion activities provided that he is satisfied that the proposals serve Scotland's needs.

Mr. Hood : Will the Minister assist me in giving advice to a constituent whom I shall be visiting tomorrow? A small business man who paid his value added tax returns four or five days late has been hammered with a £1,200 fine. Is that the type of hounding that we can expect from the Inland Revenue? Does that help the small business community?

Mr. Stewart : The relationship between the hon. Gentleman's question and trade with the Soviet Union escapes me, but if the hon. Gentleman wishes to discuss a particular case with me or with the relevant Minister, he can do so.

Service Sector Employment

10. Mr. Cran : To ask the Secretary of State for Scotland by what amount employment in the service sector increased in Scotland between 1979 and 1988.

Mr. Allan Stewart : Between June 1979 and June 1988, service sector employment in Scotland grew by 79,000. This was an increase of 6.4 per cent. The service sector makes an important contribution to Scotland's economy and in 1989 accounted for almost two thirds of our gross domestic product.

Mr. Cran : Does my hon. Friend agree that the figures that he has given illustrate how diversified and resilient the Scottish economy now is? It grew by 2.5 per cent. per year for the seven years to 1988, but by only 1 per cent. per year when Labour was in power. Does he also agree that the pundits who say that manufacturing has been overwhelmed by the service sector are wrong, because the likelihood is that manufacturing output will grow by 4 to 5 per cent. even this year?

Mr. Stewart : My hon. Friend is right to point to the strength of the service sector in Scotland. Employment in banking, in insurance and in financial and business services increased by about 50 per cent. between 1979 and 1989. Last year total employment in Scotland grew--the only part of the United Kingdom in which that happened--and in the past three years employment in Scotland has risen faster than in the United Kingdom as a whole.

Council Tax

11. Mr. MacDonald : To ask the Secretary of State for Scotland on what date he now expects the Government's new council tax to come into effect in Scotland.

Mr. Lang : Our aim is that the new council tax should come into effect on 1 April 1993.

Mr. Worthington : The Minister forgot to say that growth in the service sector was slower in Scotland than virtually anywhere else in the United Kingdom. Can he

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confirm that tomorrow's unemployment figures will show that there are fewer jobs in Scotland now than there were in 1979?

Mr. Stewart : I cannot, of course, confirm or deny anything about tomorrow's unemployment figures. [Interruption.] Of course I cannot. I can, however, reassure the hon. Gentleman that according to every indicator--including last month's unemployment figures, employment indicators, business forecasts and independent economic forecasts--the Scottish economy is coming through the current economic downturn very much better than most other parts of the United Kingdom.

Mr. Macdonald : Before the poll tax becomes history, will the Secretary of State finally clear up the confusion surrounding the liability of merchant seamen? Will he confirm that merchant seamen, who are away at sea for long periods, should not have to pay the poll tax while they are away, as they do not consume community services during those periods?

Mr. Lang : I understand the hon. Gentleman's concern, but he will recognise that it is a matter not for me but for the community charge registration officer.

Mr. McKelvey : As the Secretary of State has abandoned all his previous thoughts about the poll tax, why does he find it necessary to continue to penalise those poor unfortunates who cannot afford to pay the 20 per cent. minimum?

Mr. Lang : The hon. Gentleman knows that income support was increased to take account of the liability for the 20 per cent. minimum and also that one of reasons why people on low incomes are in difficulty with their poll tax is that they listened to Labour and Scottish National party Members who urged them not to pay their fair share of local government funding.

Highlands and Islands

12. Mr. Wallace : To ask the Secretary of State for Scotland whether he has any plans to meet the chairman of Highlands and Islands Enterprise to discuss transport issues in the context of the development of the highlands and islands economy.

Lord James Douglas-Hamilton : My right hon. Friend has no immediate plans to meet the chairman of Highlands and Islands Enterprise to discuss transport issues, though he keeps in close touch with the development of the highlands and islands economy.

Mr. Wallace : A few moments ago, in reply to my hon. Friend the Member for Inverness, Nairn and Lochaber (Sir R. Johnston), the Under- Secretary of State, the hon. Member for Eastwood (Mr. Stewart), gave some comparative EC figures with regard to excise duty on petrol, but omitted to answer my hon. Friend's question about VAT. The Minister was a member of the Select Committee on Scottish Affairs in 1982, when it recognised that one of the contributory factors to high petrol prices in rural areas is the mark-up that garage owners have to apply because of poor throughput. Does he accept that that is exacerbated by VAT and that the Government are benefiting from our disadvantage, and will he consider differential rates of VAT to assist rural areas such as the highlands and islands?

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Lord James Douglas-Hamilton : I cannot give the hon. Gentleman the assurance for which he asks, but very substantial subsidies are paid, not least on the lifeline ferry services to the islands, from which the hon. Gentleman's constituents benefit. I have given the hon. Gentleman the assurance in the past that we will reconsider the subvention for the Shetlands in the light of the carryings of P and O, which will be of assistance. I am, of course, aware of the representations that the hon. Gentleman has received on that subject, which is relevant to his constituents, and the subsidies will be maintained.

Mrs. Margaret Ewing : Does the Minister accept that, given the importance of transport issues in the highlands and islands of Scotland, it would be much more efficient to spend money on the infrastructure of our area rather than enabling the Nuclear Industry Radioactive Waste Executive to spend £450 minimum on each test borehole for the disposal of nuclear waste? Is not that a case of the Government having their priorities totally wrong?

Lord James Douglas-Hamilton : We are to debate that subject tomorrow. With regard to the transport of nuclear waste, in almost 30 years of flask movement not one incident has occurred which has led to even the smallest amount of radioactivity being released. We are spending a considerable amount on the infrastructure of the highlands and we are funding the approach roads to the Skye bridge at a cost of some £6 million, which is a substantial contribution.

Mr. Wilson : Why does the Minister give us this line about Nirex? Does he recall being at the Dispatch Box two or three weeks ago, a week before the Secretary of State gave permission for 6,000 test bores in the highlands? Why did the Minister mislead the House--not deliberately, I am sure--on that occasion? Why was not the liaison between Scottish Office Ministers sufficient to ensure that we were told on that occasion that the Secretary of State would overrule what the Minister appeared to be telling the House? Will he confirm that if this goes ahead, there will be 15 train loads of radioactive material trundling through the highlands and much of the rest of Scotland every week? That is a type of highland transport that nobody wants. Will the Minister also comment on the crass hypocrisy of the Secretary of State, who in the early 1980s purported

Mr. Speaker : Order. Please withdraw the word "hypocrisy".

Mr. Wilson : I withdraw it, Mr. Speaker.

Does the Minister recall the early 1980s, when Mullwharchar was the issue? At that time the then hon. Member for Galloway and Upper Nithsdale (Mr. Lang) led us to believe that he would go to the wall to resist the drilling of nuclear test bores in that part of Scotland. Yet the same man, as Secretary of State for Scotland, has now overruled local democracy in the highlands and islands to enable such drilling to go ahead.

Lord James Douglas-Hamilton : The decision that was announced was a quasi-judicial one. There was no prospect of the Secretary of State's issuing it before he was ready. In fact, it was not ready at that time. Of course, the accepted forms laid down in statute have to be followed. Effectively, that was done. We shall go into this matter very thoroughly in the debate tomorrow night. I shall

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expect to see the hon. Member present, and I shall answer fully all the points that he has raised. What I said in this House was totally consistent with the decision that was later announced.

Savage Dogs

13. Mr. Michael J. Martin : To ask the Secretary of State for Scotland what steps he is taking to protect police officers, postal workers and delivery personnel, from savage dogs kept by some householders ; and if he will make a statement.

Mr. Allan Stewart : There is already a significant body of legislation dealing with dangerous dogs. The Dangerous Dogs Act 1989, passed with Government support, gives courts powers to impose very stiff penalties on those who do not keep their dogs under control.

Mr. Martin : The Scottish Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals is extremely concerned about the situation that is arising. Pit bull terriers and rottweilers are very numerous in many tenement properties and in some multi-storey flats. Tenants are terrified to go into some lifts, and parents do not like to send their children into the parks, where these animals are let loose. I understand that Strathclyde police officers have been injured because drug dealers are using these dogs as a front line of defence. Surely the Government should introduce legislation to outlaw breeds that are dangerous and have aggression bred into them.

Mr. Stewart : I am aware of the incidents to which the hon. Member refers and I find them as distressing and regrettable as I am sure the whole House does. However, it is not easy to see how such attacks could be prevented by legislative means. Specific controls over certain breeds would be far from straightforward. However, I should like to reassure the hon. Gentleman with regard to the legislation as it stands. Under the Civic Government (Scotland) Act 1982, it is an offence for any person to allow a creature in his charge, including a dog, to endanger another person who is in a public place, and the Act empowers a court to order the destruction of the creature.

Local Enterprise Companies

14. Mr. Simon Coombs : To ask the Secretary of State for Scotland if he will make a statement on the progress of the local enterprise companies.

Mr. Allan Stewart : Progress in establishing the local enterprise companies in Scotland has been most encouraging. All are now fully operational, having signed operating contracts with Scottish Enterprise or Highlands and Islands Enterprise.

Mr. Coombs : Can my hon. Friend tell the House whether the problem exists in Scotland, as it does in England, whereby a number of such new organisations are in danger of reinventing the wheel--that is to say, all tackling the same problems in different ways ? Can my hon. Friend suggest to those organisations how they can ensure that best practice in the various tasks that they undertake is shared among them all ?

Mr. Stewart : I cannot comment on whether English organisations are reinventing the wheel, but the Scottish system is different from that in England because it offers

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true integration of training and economic development functions, which works extremely well. Scottish Enterprise and Highlands and Islands Enterprise give general guidance to local enterprise companies. I have been impressed--as I am sure that all right hon. and hon. Members have been--by the determination to ensure that the new system works effectively for the people of Scotland.

Mr. Ernie Ross : Nevertheless, has the Minister studied the report published today by the National Council for Voluntary Organisations, which expresses the same misgivings as are held by voluntary organisations in Scotland--that local enterprise companies and training and enterprise councils are failing to deal adequately with

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special needs groups ? There is particular concern in respect of lost training places. While I am on my feet, may I welcome the recent announcement concerning inward investment for local enterprise companies in my constituency ?

Mr. Stewart : I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for his tribute to Tayside Enterprise, whose announcement will be warmly welcomed by everyone on Tayside. As to the hon. Gentleman's specific question, people with special needs are given priority in youth and employment training. As I explained at Scottish Question Time last month, the new arrangements ensure that those with special needs are treated as a real priority.

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