House of Commons Hansard Debates for 11 Jun 1991

(c) shall have regard for the impact on the services available to, and the welfare of, the relevant population resulting from any action under this Act.'.

No. 47, in page 2, line 19, at end insert--

The Secretary of State shall not have regard to grant aided expenditure assessments when deciding if an authority's planned expenses are excessive as indicated in paragraph 4 of Finance Circular 16/1990 issued by the Scottish Office.'.

Mr. Maxton : Clause 2 has been designed to bring Scotland into line with England and Wales in terms of capping powers. It extends dramatically the powers that the Secretary of State for Scotland will have to decide levels of spending in local authorities.

Amendment No. 41 and those linked with it, including those tabled by the Scottish nationalists and the Liberal Democrats, are designed to limit that power, so that it will not be quite as sweeping as it otherwise would have been.

All of us on the Opposition Benches--there are not many on the Conservative Benches--would have wished to see clause 2 deleted completely, but as the clause was passed on Second Reading, we have no option but to keep it as it is.

However, the powers that the Secretary of State is taking under the clause will, if enacted and used, so limit local democracy in Scotland that it will become almost meaningless. Under the clause, he will have almost complete power to decide what he believes is an excessive increase in expenses of a local authority.

When the Secretary of State looks at the planned expenditure of any local authority, he will be able to say that the increase that it is proposing is excessive, even though it may be below the rate of inflation. It may be, as has often been the case in the past few years, that the increase in local government costs is higher than the increase in the retail prices index.

The Secretary of State may still deem that the increase--which may be designed to do no more than to maintain services at existing levels--is excessive, and force the authority to reduce its poll tax--or, if by some freak, the Government win the next general election, its council tax--and bring cuts in its services. The people whose services are cut at the whim of the Secretary of State are the same people who elected the local authority on the basis that it would provide certain services--[ Hon. Members-- : "Where is the quorum?"] My hon. Friends rightly ask about a quorum. If this were a Standing Committee, the Government would not have a quorum and would be unable to continue with their business. Perhaps the rules of this Chamber should be brought into line with those that apply upstairs.

8 pm

The Government may, in certain circumstances, impose new duties on local authorities that lead to increased expenditure. Even then, the Secretary of State may decide that such expenditure is excessive. For example, in the past few years, school boards, primary school tests, and community care have meant increased expenditure for

Column 847

local authorities on behalf of central Government, often against their better judgment--but they have not necessarily been exempted by the Secretary of State's capping powers.

The Secretary of State already controls the level of central Government grant to each local authority, and the level of non-domestic rates. Under the new powers in clause 2, he will have almost complete control over local authority expenditure and income. The likely future for local authorities has been clearly illustrated by the Government's treatment of Lothian region this financial year. I am sure that some of my hon. Friends from Lothian will want to add to my comments. Under the threat of capping, Lothian regional authority reluctantly agreed to reduce its poll tax rather than be subjected to capping. The Secretary of State deemed that Lothian's increased expenditure was excessive and unreasonable. I emphasise the word "unreasonable" because, under the proposed new clause, that criterion will disappear.

Lothian's increase was 11.2 per cent.--a higher percentage increase than Strathclyde, Grampian or Highland. However, it was the same percentage increase as Tayside, and lower than that of the Borders, Central, Dumfries, Galloway and Fife.

Lothian's revenue support grant per poll tax payer is the lowest in Scotland. At £453 per head, it is well below that for the Borders, at £798, and for Dumfries and Galloway, at £781. Lothian's expenditure per poll tax payer is, at £1,222, well below the Scottish average, and the third lowest in Scotland.

If Lothian had received the average Scottish revenue support grant, its poll tax would have been only £133 per person after the Government's £144 reduction. Why did the Secretary of State decide that Lothian's expenditure increase was excessive and unreasonable? I will be happy to give way to the Minister if he will tell the House why Lothian's figures warranted the description of an excessive and unreasonable increase. As the Minister is nodding, I can only assume that it was because Lothian's expenditure was set to increase grant-aided expenditure by 12.18 per cent.

Last October, the Scottish Office issued finance circular 16/1990, which stated, in paragraph 4 :

"It is important to emphasise that the authorities grant-aided expenditure has been arrived at principally for the purpose of determining and distributing grant. It is for each local authority to decide the level of services reasonably required in its area, having regard to the interests of the local community both as users of those services and as poll tax payers. The grant-aided expenditure is not an expenditure guideline and should not be regarded as such." Why is it right for the Government to decide that grant-aided expenditure shall not be an expenditure guideline, but then to use it in deciding that a local authority's expenditure is excessive? Under the present regulations and law, the Secretary of State's only threat has nothing to do with fact or logic, or with levels of expenditure, and everything to do with levels of poll tax and political prejudice. There was a blatant attempt to discredit the Lothian region Labour administration for political ends, in the slim hope that Labour in both Lothian and Scotland would suffer and that the Tories might win back some of the seats that they lost in 1987--or, more likely, might manage to hang on to some of the seats that they still hold in Scotland. That is very unlikely, but that is why the Secretary of State used

Column 848

the powers that he did. His use of them had nothing to do with local government expenditure or protecting poll tax levels. It had to do with trying to protect the Tory party's last slender hopes of keeping any seats in Scotland.

If, under the existing law, the Secretary of State can use his powers in such an arbitrary and biased manner, how much more frightening are the powers that he is now attempting to take? The Convention of Scottish Local Authorities estimates that, if one applied the same accounting criteria in England and Wales, 31 district councils and five regional councils would have faced capping this year. The Minister may disagree, but that is a good, sound estimate, made by people who are very experienced in local government finance.

We have tabled the amendments to put some blocks on the Secretary of State's excessive powers. It will be for the other parties to explain their amendments, but ours are designed to restore the status quo and to retain the criterion of unreasonableness. That is a weak criterion--as the Secretary of State proved this year, it does not stand up--but at least he is obliged to make some effort to explain his actions, whereas under the new powers he seeks, he would not have to do so.

Our amendments also try to ensure that, if a local authority keeps its expenditure below the rate of inflation, it will not be capped. At present, there is no guarantee of that. An authority could increase its expenditure by less than the rate of inflation and still be capped, because the Secretary of State deems its increased expenditure excessive.

Our amendments also require the Secretary of State to take account of new burdens placed on local authorities by central Government legislation. Finally, they say that the Secretary of State cannot use grant-aided expenditure as his guide.

The truth is that the Government dislike the very concept of local democracy. They have been in power for so long that they are now abusing power.

Mr. John Home Robertson (East Lothian) : It is corrupt.

Mr. Maxton : I would not necessarily have used that particular word, but I accept the implication. As Lord Acton says, power corrupts ; absolute power corrupts absolutely.

Nowadays, if any authority wants to do things differently from the Government and has different ideas--even if it has been elected by the people--the Government wish to curtail its power, thus reducing its ability to perform its proper functions. The Government's arrogance is breathtaking : they believe that they are better able to decide what the people of Scotland want, although the people of Scotland have rejected them time and again. They cannot accept that local authorities elected by local people know what is best for those people, and should be free to make decisions without excessive interference on the part of central Government.

Neither clause 2--even if it is amended--nor the Bill in its entirety can end the desperate crisis that faces local government and many poll tax payers. The Government frantically abandoned the poll tax as they realised what a disaster it had become--a disaster which, incidentally, Opposition Members had predicted from the outset. Having abandoned it, however, they were not prepared to face the consequences of their own crass stupidity.

Column 849

I now hear that the Secretary of State never supported the poll tax. I have heard through various grapevines that he does not believe in it. Perhaps, after the next general election, he will be free to write his memoirs and tell us whether that is true.

Instead of introducing clause 2 and the dictatorial powers contained in the Bill as a whole, the Government should have abolished the 20 per cent. minimum payment, backdated rebates for those who did not claim in time and restored local authorities' discretion to waive payment in cases where collection would cause hardship. If the 20 per cent. payment is wrong in 1993, it is wrong now, and should go now.

Above all, the Government should get rid of the poll tax as soon as possible. If they swallowed their pigheaded pride and recognised publicly that their so-called council tax was an inferior version of the old rating system, they could, even now, withdraw the Bill and present another to reintroduce the rating system on 1 April 1992. We have said repeatedly that if the Government did that we would give their Bill every assistance. If they wanted to reform it later--as they suggest in the council tax legislation--there would be nothing to stop them doing so, in the unlikely event of their winning the next general election. Clause 2 of this Bill, however, does nothing to solve the problems that they have created for local authorities.

The amendment may improve the situation only partially, but any measure to reduce the extraordinary powers that the Secretary of State is trying to take must surely be tried. I ask my hon. Friends to support it in the Lobby.

Mr. Home Robertson : I am grateful to my hon. Friend the Member for Glasgow, Cathcart (Mr. Maxton) for his extensive references to Lothian region. I hope that people throughout Scotland will have the opportunity to see a still from a television shot of the Chamber, revealing that, during the first part of his speech, the Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Scotland, the hon. Member for Eastwood (Mr. Stewart), sat on the Front Bench in almost solitary splendour--accompanied by the Whip, his hon. Friend the Member for Leeds, North-East (Mr. Kirkhope). Leeds, North-East is, of course, a well-known Scottish constituency.

The Secretary of State for Scotland--the leader of the minority administration at the Scottish Office--has now arrived to double the Scottish Tory representation. Yet again, the Secretary of State--in this case, the right hon. Member for Galloway and Upper Nithsdale (Mr. Lang)-- has taken it on himself to set the budget for Lothian regional council.

I have probably been involved in setting local taxes in Scotland, nominally at least, more often as a Member of Parliament than as a Scottish district councillor, which I was for five years. That says a good deal about the march of centralisation under the present Government. Nowadays, instead of taxes and budgets being set by people who are accountable to the local electorate, they are set by people from Cornwall to Muckle Flugga-- including people from England, Wales and Northern Ireland. They are answerable not to the Scottish electorate but to the whim of Government Whips such as the hon. Member for Leeds, North-East. So much for local accountability and local democracy.

Column 850

8.15 pm

This is not an obscure debate about local government finance ; nor, indeed, is the Bill an honest measure to protect local taxpayers. That is the fig leaf behind which the Government try to hide in their attempt to justify poll tax capping--or rate capping, as it used to be called. We hear from Ministers, again and again, that the aim is to protect local taxpayers from profligate local authorities. The Bill, however, represents yet another part of the Government's discriminatory and vindictive campaign against local services in selected parts of Scotland.

My constituency suffered more than most from central interference in local affairs during the Thatcher years. Here we are again, under the new, supposedly squeaky clean Prime Minister, suffering exactly the same treatment. The image makers are working overtime nowadays. It seems to me that the only difference between this crocodile and the last is the fact that this one seems to smile a little more often.

Ministers have taken powers to intervene in local government budgeting where they see fit to judge, purely subjectively, that the plans of elected local representatives are excessive and unreasonable. It beats me how on earth the perpetrators of the poll tax can be deemed fit judges of what is excessive or unreasonable. My hon. Friend the Member for Cathcart said that the Secretary of State for Scotland had tried to distance himself from the poll tax ; I find that amazing.

The Secretary of State for Scotland (Mr. Ian Lang) : No. Mr. Home Robertson : I am glad to hear it, because I remember vividly--as will my hon. Friend the Member for Cathcart--the long, weary hours in the Standing Committee on the so-called Abolition of Domestic Rates Etc. (Scotland) Act 1987, when the right hon. Gentleman was one of the Members who supported the legislation through thick and thin. We tried to warn them then : we told them it would be a disaster, that it would be unfair and that it would lose the party elections. Virtually all the Tory Members on the Committee lost their seats, but still they would not learn. Now, finally, the penny seems to have dropped ; but we cannot trust such people to be objective judges of what is unreasonable in local government budgeting.

The Secretary of State considers it excessive and unreasonable for pensioners in Lothian region--including the far-flung parts of my constituency--to have the free bus passes for which people in Lothian voted, as they have done repeatedly in local elections. He also thinks that a range of other local services are unreasonable and excessive--for instance, the Abbey residential home for old people in North Berwick, which is to be closed because of the package of cuts he has imposed on the region. The right hon. Gentleman wants to take credit for taking £18.5 million out of Lothian's budget and cutting the poll tax, but he must also face the consequences of the painful cuts that our constituents are having to suffer.

The services to which I refer are not luxuries ; they are vital to the well being of the elderly, the disabled and others who rely on them. The minority regime at St. Andrew's house, however, considers them excessive and unreasonable.

The Secretary of State for Scotland has given himself the power--and now he seeks more power--to set the budgets of Scottish local authorities. But he has left the

Column 851

responsibility for providing local services and responsibility to the local electorate with local councillors. It was Rudyard Kipling, was it not, who referred to

"power without responsibility--the prerogative of the harlot throughout the ages"?

Kipling knew a thing or two about the law of the jungle, and one wonders with what reptiles he would have compared Scottish Ministers, given their conduct over the years. Their judgment has been shown once again to be excessively and unreasonably harsh and arbitrary. Let us look in detail at the situation in Lothian region, to which my hon. Friend the Member for Cathcart has already referred. Lothian has been capped again by the Government. As my hon. Friend said, for a start, Lothian regional council gets less Government subsidy per head than any other region in Scotland. It receives £88 per head less in subsidy than the Scottish average, and £117 a head less than the constituents of the Secretary of State, in Dumfries and Galloway region.

Grant discrimination makes it inevitable that Lothian has to set a higher local tax than anywhere else in Scotland. The inefficiency and cost of the poll tax system makes the position even worse. My hon. Friend said that the Government were abolishing the poll tax system. Would to God they were. If their plans are carried through, that system will last not only throughout the current year but for another two or three years, under the programme that they have in mind, complete with the surcharge which people on very low incomes still have to pay. The poll tax is still very much with the people of Scotland. The inefficient and costly system dreamed up by the Government is still hurting people in our country.

The Secretary of State has seen to it that Lothian starts with a built-in disadvantage because of the discriminatory distribution of central Government grant. Lothian regional council has tried to make the best of a difficult job by setting a modest budget--£10 per head lower than the average for Scottish regions, and £19 a head less than Dumfries and Galloway regional council, which covers the area represented by the Secretary of State for Scotland-- [Interruption.] I do not know why the Under-Secretary of State, the hon. Member for Eastwood (Mr. Stewart) is pulling such faces at me ; I am only citing figures that were provided in reply to parliamentary questions. I can refer to them more closely if he likes.

Despite Lothian's prudent budgeting, Government manipulation has left us with the highest poll tax in Britain outside Lambeth. That would be bad enough, but to add insult to injury, the Secretary of State now seeks to cut £18.5 million out of the Budget. He tries to take the credit for cutting the poll tax, while leaving councillors to face the music for the loss of pensioners' bus passes, and the other cuts for which the Secretary of State is personally responsible. He will not get away with it--at least, the Secretary of State himself may survive because he has given an extra subsidy to people in his part of the world, but the previous Secretary of State, now Secretary of State for Transport, and the Under-Secretary, the hon. Member for Edinburgh, West (Lord James Douglas-Hamilton) will have a job explaining to their constituents why they have to put up with worse services and such a high poll tax because of the financial gerrymandering of the Scottish Office. They cannot be allowed to get away with it, and they will not.

Column 852

Mr. Dick Douglas (Dunfermline, West) : After a fairly long Committee sitting we have come to the clause which applies to Scotland. Although we are discussing amendment No. 41, moved by the hon. Member for Glasgow, Cathcart (Mr. Maxton) I should like to allude to amendment No. 3, tabled by my hon. Friends and myself, which has not been given pride of place. It has the same thrust as the other amendments in the group, and would have the same impact on a situation that causes great concern.

With great respect, I have to say that the hon. Member for East Lothian (Mr. Home Robertson) has been looking backwards and considering the Secretary of State's current powers, but we are concerned about the powers that the right hon. Gentleman intends to take, the thrust of which would be to relate the Scottish position to that in England and Wales. That should cause us all great concern, because the basis of local authority finance in Scotland, as we all know, is significantly different.

The main burden of my remarks may not seem to relate strictly to our amendment, because that would affect schedule 3 to the Abolition of Domestic Rates Etc. (Scotland) Act 1987, but I want to relate it to the Scottish experience. I want to ask the Secretary of State about grant-aided expenditure, to which the hon. Member for Cathcart alluded. Will the Minister tell me whether we are to move away from the criteria in the substantial document, "Grant-Aided Expenditure"? That document bears some examination, because its case rests not on prejudice but on some degree of objectivity--although not perfect objectivity, of course.

If the Committee will forgive me, I shall quote the introductory paragraph of that document for 1991-92 :

"The tables presented in the main part of this report show the calculation of Grant Aided Expenditure for 1991-92 for regional, district and island authority services. These calculations are prepared using the client group approach which is a systematic means of allocating a predetermined level of expenditure equitably among local authorities. It should be noted that the client group approach does not determine the level of provision in absolute terms nor its distribution between services. The total relative GAE for a local authority is the sum of the separate assessments for individual services. The total estimates of GAE for each authority are used by the Scottish Office as the basis for the distribution of the Revenue Support Grant."

That is the basis for the distribution of a grant. It is not to be used to determine whether expenditure is excessive. I ask the Minister whether it will be used as such. I shall happily give way if I am wrong, and we can save a lot of time, but, if I am correct in my assumption, in order to allocate the distribution of the rate support grant we shall use a device which sub-groups of local authorities have worked out with the Scottish Office over a period of years. I do not say that it is perfect ; we may have disagreements about it--I am sure that Lothian would, and other authorities might, disagree with it--but there is a certain sense in which it can be regarded as a touchstone. We are moving away from that.

The Convention of Scottish Local Authorities has sent me an appendix which says :

"In England the capping criteria has been in place for some time and is normally centred around both the movement on a year to year basis in an authority's budget and what excess, if any, that budget generates in respect of that authority's standard spending assessment as set by the Government. The likelihood is that in Scotland instead of measuring excesses against SSA, the equivalent will be an authority's grant-aided expenditure assessment."

Column 853

COSLA, the local authorities in Scotland and the Committee deserve an answer, not in the sweet by and by, but now. COSLA's appendix continues :

"This is a matter of particular concern as it has never been accepted either by the Convention or its member councils that GAE assessments are in any way a true and accurate assessment of what each authority should be spending."

That is the gravamen of my criticism of what the Government are trying to do. On later clauses we shall discuss the intentions on valuation.

The hon. Member for East Lothian spoke about the effect of previous legislation on Lothian and other regions. As the hon. Member for Cathcart said, by giving the Government the powers that they seek in the clause, we would bring many local authorities that are excluded from capping powers within the ambit of those powers. Restrictions imposed by the words "excessive" and "unreasonable" will be removed. Those are enormous powers to give any Secretary of State, but they are enormous powers to give a Secretary of State in a Government who have rested their case for the reform of local authority finance on the basis of local autonomy and accountability.

8.30 pm

We are giving the Government enormous powers to interfere with local autonomy and accountability because they have moved into the local authority sphere. The Minister, no doubt, will tell us what percentage of local authority revenue will come from the so-called council tax, but it must be about £1 in £10. The Government say that Scottish local authorities will collect council tax revenue of about £800 million, but that if they try to raise extra revenue to meet need caused, for example, by higher unemployment, the United Kingdom's macro-economic structure will disintegrate. I do not believe that. It may happen if local authorities that are responsible for 50 million people decided to do it, but not when authorities are responsible for 5 million people.

The hon. Member for Cathcart rightly said that we are concerned about having the poll tax for longer than is desirable. Anyone who is aware of the exigencies of the poll tax would not want it to continue longer. The Scottish National party and the Liberal Democrats have devised systems of local income tax. I have alluded to that before, so will not go into it.

Mr. Maxton : I accept what the hon. Gentleman says, but at a conference that I attended recently, the hon. Member for Banff and Buchan (Mr. Salmond) suggested the replacement of the poll tax not by a local income tax but by 100 per cent. Government grant to local government. I should be grateful if the hon. Gentleman would clarify that.

Mr. Douglas : I am not avoiding the question, but things have moved on. The Government raised VAT to 17.5 per cent. and are now responsible for 90 per cent. of local authority revenue. But should they so desire, they could become responsible for 100 per cent. Collection of the poll tax is down to 50 per cent. As a short-term expedient to save local government the embarrassment of trying to collect an uncollectable tax, the Government should have offered 100 per cent. support and the poll tax would have been abolished at a stroke.

A Labour Government would have to consider that, because they would be unable expeditiously to introduce the so-called fair rates. Capital value assessments and

Column 854

valuations will not be introduced until 1993 at the earliest, and that will impose enormous burdens on Scottish local authorities. We agree with the hon. Member for Cathcart and were ahead of the Labour party in suggesting that the 20 per cent. rule should be abolished. Mr. Maxton indicated dissent.

Mr. Douglas : We may cavil about that, so let me put it gently : there is no disagreement that the 20 per cent. rule should be abolished and that students and others should be exempt from the poll tax.

The Government have a responsibility to bridge the gap in revenue. Perhaps VAT should be increased further, but the most efficient measure is the standard rate of tax. In the long term, we propose a local income tax, which could be introduced by 1 April 1992 if we began now.

The powers that are being sought by the Government cannot be justified. They cannot speak of the autonomy or accountability of local authorities when they determine what an authority will do, when they are responsible for 90 per cent. of its revenue and when they are saying, "No matter what the electors of the area want, we will determine what is excessive."

Earlier, the Under-Secretary of State for the Environment said that he was horrified when he spoke to unelected people who said that they were speaking for areas. If we diminish the role of local authorities, non- elected people will speak for areas, because it will be difficult to attract councillors of a sufficient calibre and local authorities will not be accountable to their electorates. The Government must make up their mind about whether they want to give local authorities real power, and that means accountability for revenue. They cannot drive a wedge between authorities' accountability for the services that they offer yet at the same time determine what revenue they can raise.

The Government are moving not only from the criteria that have been established to determine what is excessive but from grant-aided expenditure. They are trying to make Scotland follow the English model of the standard spending assessment by using a device that was not designed for that purpose. The tenuous trust that has been established between Scottish local authorities and the Scottish Office will be eroded and the Government will pay a heavy price.

Mr. Malcolm Bruce (Gordon) : The Liberal Democrats' amendment No. 46 has the same general thrust as that moved by the hon. Member for Glasgow, Cathcart (Mr. Maxton). He sought to ensure that capping powers should not be imposed if local authority spending was contained within the rate of inflation. We seek to ensure that the Government would not impose capping without taking account of the impact on the local community and on the welfare provisions. In all honesty, the amendments are merely devices within the framework of the Bill to try to constrain the application of capping powers. As all the speeches have shown, it is the principle that we fundamentally oppose.

It will be interesting to hear the Minister defend and justify the Government's position, but no doubt he has a brief that will eat all the words ever delivered and spouted by his predecessors when they gave us what it would be fair to call lectures on the need to introduce a system of local financing which would ensure accountability to the

Column 855

electorate. That is now a dead duck. Accountability to the local electorate is no longer one of the Government's objectives. However, there is a more worrying issue. I am not sure whether it would be appropriate, so I shall not identify the person involved, but I spoke to a member of the Government when the Government announced the abolition of the poll tax. He passionately supported the poll tax, but said that, once people realised that the Government were setting up a separate system of tax collection to produce precisely 14 per cent. of local government expenditure, they would start to wonder, "What kind of crazy system is that?" The Government are trying to impose capping powers on local authorities which, in any case, will have the right to raise only about 14 per cent. of their total expenditure from that source. How can that be? The argument that used to be deployed was the minginess of the Government's support grant. That was the weapon that the Government used before, and it was pretty effective. When local authority ability to raise revenue is squeezed to such an extent, it is extraordinary that the Government should now introduce comprehensive capping powers.

I remember the number of occasions when the Secretary of State for Scotland boasted to the House about how he was able to administer local government in Scotland without recourse to capping. Throughout the period of the crisis with the rates, throughout the revaluation, throughout the introduction of the poll tax and its entire administration, the Scottish Office stood alone, proud that it did not have to introduce capping. Now that the poll tax has been swept away, to the Government's eternal humiliation, capping is suddenly not only necessary, but necessary as a permanent and absolute power to be available for use against all authorities on every occasion. That seems an extraordinary development.

There are several questions that we must ask the Minister. How does he believe that it is appropriate to have a system of local government finance which requires a separate tax collection system that yields only 14 per cent. of local authority expenditure? How can we trust him and his colleagues in the Scottish Office to determine what is excessive and extravagant and to determine what criteria to use to judge authorities' performance?

I echo the words of the hon. Member for Dunfermline, West (Mr. Douglas) about the breakdown of trust that will follow between the Scottish Office and local authorities. There has been a basic understanding that the Government have a certain degree of right, and that there was a client relationship. Reference has been made to the confusion about how the rate support grant was calculated. In spite of the client group approach, there was some mystery about how each local authority's revenue and support grant was determined. However, it was accepted that there was a rough and ready justice and that the approach was broadly fair.

However, when the only determinant is the arbitrary judgment of Ministers who are beleaguered, whose backs are against the wall and who are facing political annihilation, one cannot believe that there is an objective analysis. There will be a simple, blatant political fix

Column 856

designed to try to secure the preservation of the species. The record and the experience of the past few years should tell the Government that it will not work, but that does not stop them trying.

8.45 pm

The people of Scotland are pretty fed up with the Government and with the contempt with which local government has been treated. They are also pretty fed up with the way in which they are encouraged to vote for local councillors whom they duly elect, but are then treated with contempt on the ground that the councillors whom they have elected cannot be trusted to fulfil their obligations. The Government cannot say that not enough people vote. People have the right to vote ; if they do not turn out to vote, it is not the Government's job to determine at what level to intervene and decide whether a vote is invalid. There are parliamentary constituencies in which the turnout to vote is not what it should be, but I accept that this is not the appropriate moment to discuss exactly how the House is elected and the relationship between the votes cast and the seats won. I say merely that either elected democratic local government has a place in the future or it does not. The clause appears to mark the end of real democratic, accountable local government. The Minister and his party will be held accountable for that. He is making it extremely difficult to ensure that in future we have local authorities that can be trusted not only by the people but in their working relationship with central Government. If he destroys that trust and the working relationship between the Government and local authorities, which works pretty well in Scotland, despite the conflicts that have emerged, he will have destroyed a vital mechanism for delivering local services tailored to local needs and priorities. That is what the Government are abolishing and they will be held to account for it.

Mrs. Maria Fyfe (Glasgow, Maryhill) : So far, this has been a rather odd debate because it has taken place entirely between members of the Opposition. No Scottish Tory Back-Bencher is present to listen to this debate which affects Scotland and no Conservative Members are even rising to speak.

I take issue with my hon. Friend the Member for East Lothian (Mr. Home Robertson), who earlier repeated the famous quotation about the prerogative of the harlot being power without responsibility. At least it can be said of the harlot that she is prepared to play an active role.

During last week's debate, I interrupted the Secretary of State to ask him to name the Scottish councils that he thought were extravagant and wasteful. He said that he could happily leave that to the Under-Secretary of State, the hon. Member for Eastwood (Mr. Stewart), and that he would do so eloquently. The hon. Member for Eastwood did not name one such council, because he could not. All he did was to reply in a nit-picking way to some points that had been made in the debate and merely mentioned various resources that had been allocated. Once again, he made a speech of the type that leads people to be deceived because they believe that the resources are hard cash instead of merely the ability to borrow money or to raise money through the sale of assets. Once again, an attempt was made to mislead.

Strathclyde especially is facing massive cuts on top of its previous round of cuts. That leaves it with extremely

Column 857

serious decisions to make. The earlier round of cuts has caused the axing of many worth while voluntary bodies which were doing a great job in their communities but which have been forced to either give up their work entirely or to curtail it considerably.

I mention specifically one function of Strathclyde region, which is not a statutory duty but is nevertheless a welcome and respected function--the provision of nurseries for the under-fives. In my constituency, the local regional councillor, Neelam Bakshi, myself and local parents had to put up quite a struggle to preserve a nursery. The region accepted our views, but it has to be said that the need for a nursery in that one small part of one constituency in Glasgow is at least double the places provided in the area. Only yesterday, the Government said that they would provide 160 creche places for customers of Glasgow development agency, which would be funded partly by the private sector and partly by the public sector. They have at least recognised that the need is there. If they recognise that, why cannot they ensure that the resources are there when local authorities are providing that service instead of forcing the authority to consider cuts?

It is obvious that the Government are simply using their powers, which stem from their majority in the House, to force cuts that they cannot justify. It is interesting that they want to remove the word "unreasonable" from local government legislation, which says that if spending is "excessive and unreasonable", the Government will take powers to cut it. They have never been able to show that Scottish local authorities acted unreasonably. They simply change the goalposts and remove that word. If they were able to provide evidence, they would have done so and they have had ample opportunity to do so over the past 12 years. They have never been able to talk about any Scottish local authority in those terms.

We have made the point before and we will make it over and over again until this lot are shifted out of power. When the Division Bell rings tonight, the majority will come trooping through the Lobbies with no idea what they are voting on and what the effect will be on Scotland. They know nothing and they could not care less. They will then wonder why they are so unpopular in Scotland. I do not know what it takes to tell them--except the next general election.

Mr. Geoffrey Dickens (Littleborough and Saddleworth) : I had not intended to make a contribution to the debate, but the hon. Member for Glasgow, Maryhill (Mrs. Fyfe) has goaded me into making a contribution from the Conservative Benches. I promise that it will not be a lengthy contribution and I do not usually disappoint the Opposition when I make such a pledge.

In my early days in public life, I served as a member and chairman of a parish council, as a member, chairman and leader of a district council, as a member of a county council and as a committee chairman of a county council committee. In those days, as today, parish councils had to precept the big brother council--the district, city or borough council--for the money that they had to spend. They do not collect their own money ; they precept the district councils for the money. However, parish councillors still work out their spending plans and their priorities. It does not make any difference who collects the tax.

What really matters to the councillors who are elected is to ensure that the money is spent wisely for the sake of

Column 858

the people who have elected them on to the parish council. The system works well and I do not see why the Opposition should make such a fuss about who collects the tax as long as the elected councillors have the opportunity to fix their own priorities and their own spending plans.

Mr. John McAllion (Dundee, East) rose--

The Temporary Chairman : I call Mr. Thomas Graham.

Mr. McAllion : This must be the first occasion on which I have been mistaken for my hon. Friend the Member for Renfrew, West and Inverclyde (Mr. Graham). I am sure that any comparison would withstand an objective analysis.

The group of amendments relates to the Government's attempts to strengthen the capping powers available to the Secretary of State for Scotland. To understand fully the significance of the amendments with which we are trying to change clause 2, it will be helpful to look back at some of the recent history of capping.

I remember well the 1986 Green Paper review of local government finance. At that time, we were assured that capping would be a transitional measure which would be phased out as the poll tax was phased in and that the poll tax would ultimately prove to be the system of accountability in local government which would render unnecessary capping powers for the Secretaries of State for Scotland, for Wales and for the Environment. We were told that everyone would pay the poll tax, that everyone would have a stake and that everyone would therefore hold to account the local authorities whose spending was deemed to be excessive and unreasonable. We were told that with the advent of the poll tax, capping would be rendered completely redundant.

Looking back to 1986, I am struck by the fact that the review paper was quite touchingly innocent in its belief about what would come to pass. Things did not quite work out as the authors of the Green Paper intended. The poll tax ran into inevitable political trouble and as the poll tax receded, so did the early confidence that the Government had shown in it.

Capping began to make a comeback. We were first told that the poll tax would take a number of years to work and that we had to have capping powers as a weapon of last resort. We were then told that capping powers were not a weapon of last resort, but a reserve power that might have to be used from time to time. From a reserve power, capping became a selective action power. In clause 2, we are told that capping is a necessary power without which the Secretary of State cannot perform his function as the head of the Scottish arm of the Government.

Ministers will seek to assure us that clause 2 simply brings Scottish capping powers into line with those available to the Secretaries of State for Wales and for the Environment. They will also tell us that we need stronger capping powers in Scotland because the current powers available to the Secretary of State are limited and prevent him from fulfilling the role that the Government intend for him. However, that means that the Secretary of State for Scotland will now be able to determine not only the level of local tax in a local authority area, but the level of local services in the area. I come from Dundee. The only time the citizens of Dundee see the Secretary of State for Scotland is when he sweeps into the city in a big car cavalcade and poses briefly in front of the television cameras for an opening or a

Next Section

Home Page