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House of Commons
Thursday 13 June 1991
The House met at half-past Two o'clock
PRAYERS
[Mr. Speaker-- in the Chair ]
NEW WRIT
For Liverpool, Walton, in the room of Eric Samuel Heffer, Esquire, deceased.-- [Mr. Foster.]
PRIVATE BUSINESS
King's Cross Railways Bill
Order for consideration, as amended, read.
To be considered on Thursday 20 June.
Killingholme Generating Stations (Ancillary Powers) Bill
[Lords] (By Order)
Order for Third Reading read.
To be read the Third time on Tuesday 18 June at Seven o'clock.
London Underground Bill
(By Order)
Order for consideration, as amended, read.
To be considered on Thursday 20 June.
East Coast Main Line (Safety) Bill
(By Order) Order read for resuming adjourned debate on Question [13 May], That the Bill be now read a Second time.
Debate further adjourned till Thursday 20 June.
Mr. Speaker : The remaining Bills have blocking motions. With the leave of the House, I shall put them together.
London Regional Transport (Penalty Fares) Bill
(By Order)
London Underground (King's Cross) Bill
(By Order)
British Railways
(No. 3) Bill-- [Lords] (By Order) Orders for Second Reading read.
To be read a Second time on Thursday 20 June.
Oral Answers to Questions
NORTHERN IRELAND
Bangor Hospital
1. Mr. Kilfedder : To ask the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland if he will ensure that Bangor hospital will be granted sufficient funds to enable it to provide acute services and other facilities for its catchment area.
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Northern Ireland (Mr. Jeremy Hanley) : As I explained to the hon. Gentleman during last night's Adjournment
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debate, acute services for the Bangor area are provided mainly by the Ulster hospital, some 10 miles distant, and by Ards hospital, which is only some five miles away. I am satisfied that they have sufficient funds to maintain their services. I am informed by the Eastern health and social services board that it has no proposals before it at present to alter the services currently provided by Bangor hospital.Mr. Kilfedder : Is the Minister aware that the people of Bangor will regard his answer as unsatisfactory? A person in Bangor who has a heart attack or is involved in a serious accident cannot be admitted to Bangor hospital, because no accident or emergency facilities are provided there. It is no use saying that it is only 10 miles to the Ulster hospital in Dundonald, because an ambulance or other transport may not be available and serious consequences may result from the delay. I therefore implore the Minister to change his mind.
Mr. Hanley : The hon. Gentleman is absolutely right--there may be areas where people will have to travel two, three, four or five miles to get emergency treatment, but we are kitting out ambulances with defibrillators. The services at Ards and Ulster are perfectly adequate. I have had no reports that anyone has been put at risk because there is no acute hospital on their doorstep. I assure the hon. Gentleman that the services provided by the management at that hospital unit for people in Bangor are excellent, and I hope that that will continue.
Mr. John D. Taylor : Does the Minister recognise that some 40 per cent. of the population covered by the Eastern health and social services board live in the North Down and Ards area? Does he recognise that there is growing irritation among people living there at the fact that only 15 per cent. of the funds are spent in their area? Will the hon. Gentleman assure the ever-increasing population in that area--especially in Ards, which is the fastest growing area in Northern Ireland--that Ards hospital will be retained and that there will be further investment in and expansion of services at that hospital?
Mr. Hanley : The right hon. Gentleman is right about the population of North Down. The population of Bangor has increased in recent years from 25,000 to 50,000. It is wrong to say that the money spent within the Ulster, North Down and Ards hospital unit is not in line with population growth. Most of the money spent in that area is for regional services in Belfast. As I said, the people who are provided with services by the Ulster, North Down and Ards hospital unit are well served.
In Northern Ireland as a whole, expenditure this year on health and social services is £1,166 million, an increase of £115 million--that is not cut. The Eastern board will receive £430 million this year--an increase of £40 million--which is well ahead of inflation. The Ulster, North Down and Ards hospitals unit will receive an increase of£4 million, which brings it up to £7 million. I should be grateful, therefore, if there could be no more talk of cuts in that area.
Education and Training
2. Mr. Stevens : To ask the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland if he intends to implement the proposals contained in the White Paper "Education and Training for the 21st Century" in Northern Ireland ; and if he will make a statement.
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The Minister of State, Northern Ireland Office (Dr. Brian Mawhinney) : The Government are considering how the principles set out in the White Paper, which relates only to England and Wales, may be applied in a way which takes account of the particular circumstances of Northern Ireland. An announcement about the future of further education in Northern Ireland was made recently by my right hon. and noble Friend the Paymaster General. This set out the Government's aims and the means proposed to give effect to them. In particular, it proposed new arrangements designed to bring about a better planned and co-ordinated system of further education in the Province.Mr. Stevens : I am grateful to my hon. Friend for his reply. Is it intended to introduce training credit schemes in Northern Ireland, as in England and Wales, as they have an important contribution to make to the training of young people due to their flexibility. Does he agree that such schemes are a good example of the necessary partnership between business and education?
Dr. Mawhinney : I agree that the concept of training credits is excellent because it puts purchasing power into the hands of prospective trainees. My hon. Friend will be pleased to know that a pilot scheme to develop a training credit scheme is to be introduced in Northern Ireland in 1992.
Mr. McGrady : Is the Minister aware of the report published today by the Standing Advisory Commission on Human Rights, which states that in the past few years funding for the maintained school sector has been 20 or 30 per cent. below that for the state sector? Does he realise that that also has an impact on the prospect of employment for people coming through the voluntary education system? Will he take immediate and urgent action to remedy and redress that position?
Dr. Mawhinney : First, I must say that I have not read the report, probably because it was published only today. I am aware that for historic reasons there was some differential between the funding of schools in the two sectors to which the hon. Gentleman refers. He will know that some years ago the Department of Education started to reverse that trend for precisely the reasons that he outlined. He will also know that the introduction of formula funding in schools in Northern Ireland will continue and perhaps even accelerate that process in order to achieve the end that he desires.
Rev. Ian Paisley : Will the hon. Gentleman tell the House when he will give some moneys to independent Christian schools in the Province which receive nothing?
Dr. Mawhinney : As I have said to the hon. Gentleman before, that is a matter which I should be most happy to discuss with him, as would my right hon. and noble Friend the Paymaster General, should the hon. Gentleman care to pursue the matter with us.
Mr. Beggs : Does the Minister agree that a well-educated community with academic and, indeed, national vocational qualifications will help those endeavouring to attract new industry into Northern Ireland? Does he also agree, however, that those promoting the extremely republican MacBride principles in their campaign could damage the very prospects that his proposals seek in raising the level of education throughout
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Northern Ireland? If implemented and applied to Northern Ireland, such proposals could damage the prospects of young, well-educated Roman Catholics in areas of high unemployment ever finding employment.Dr. Mawhinney : I agree with the hon. Gentleman. I regret that some people are promoting that campaign in various parts of the United States. If that campaign is designed to achieve fair employment in Northern Ireland, it is unnecessary because there is already strong legislation available to achieve that and also a Government commitment to that end. I record my appreciation of those people in all the political parties in Northern Ireland who have given their time and energy to help boost investment in the Province because Northern Ireland needs jobs, not further restrictions to jobs.
Political Parties (Meetings)
3. Mr. David Shaw : To ask the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland when he next expects to meet representatives of the political parties in Northern Ireland to discuss the future government of the Province.
4. Mr. Andrew MacKay : To ask the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland if he will make a statement on his latest talks with the constitutional political parties in the Province.
The Secretary of State for Northern Ireland (Mr. Peter Brooke) : I plan to meet the four constitutional political parties taking part in the current talks next Monday when, as they indicated last week, they believe that plenary sessions should begin.
In the past few weeks a number of sensitive procedural questions have been resolved and we hope, in conjunction with the Irish Government and in consultation with the other participating parties, to reach agreement before long on the appointment of an independent chairman for the second strand of the talks.
Mr. Shaw : I congratulate my right hon. Friend on the delicate and skilful way in which he has achieved this stage of the peace negotiations and discussions. Does he believe that the goodwill that has been established in the first stage will be enhanced in the next critical stage if the Irish Government reveal that they are flexible and can increase their flexibility on articles 2 and 3 of their constitution?
Mr. Brooke : I am grateful to my hon. Friend for his kind remarks, but I must advise him that we still have a long way to go. In answer to his second question, the Irish Government have repeatedly made it clear that they will be willing to discuss the matter that he has raised once strand 2 of the current process has been launched.
Mr. Andrew MacKay : Is my right hon. Friend aware that there is terrific respect in virtually all parts of the House for his patience in bringing together the constitutional parties of Northern Ireland, and that there is equal respect for right hon. and hon. Members from different parts of the House who have not been prepared to bow to terrorist threats and who have continued to attend the talks? Are the Government sufficiently flexible to consider re-arrangements or changes to the agreement in due course, provided that they are agreed by all the parties involved in the talks?
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Mr. Brooke : I am grateful to my hon. Friend for his opening remarks, and not least for the tribute that he paid to other right hon. and hon. Members for their contribution to the process so far. In answer to his question about the Anglo-Irish Agreement, the two signatories to the agreement--the British and Irish Governments--have made it clear that they would be prepared to consider a new or more broadly based agreement if such an agreement could be arrived at through direct discussion and negotiation between all the participants in the talks.Mr. Trimble : Will the Secretary of State give us an assurance that the agreement made by the three Ulster party leaders about the first plenary session next Monday will be honoured, and that the right hon. Gentleman will not allow the meeting to be frustrated in any way by the difficulties that he is encountering in his dealings with another Government about finding an independent chairman to replace him at a later stage of the talks?
Mr. Brooke : The announcement on Wednesday last week was made by the leaders of the four parties in Northern Ireland, who stated that they had decided that the plenary talks would commence on Monday 17 June.
Mr. Hume : Does the Secretary of State agree that before hon. Members advise the Secretary of State about the constitutions of other countries it might be wise for them to take a look at their own? Given that it might be regarded as offensive if the Cardinal Archbishop of Armagh were the only person who could be President of Ireland, and if the Catholic archbishops of Ireland had seats as of right in the Irish senate, should we not also consider the fact that the only person who can be head of state in this country is the head of a particular church and that the archbishops of a particular church have seats as of right in the House of Lords?
Mr. Brooke : The hon. Gentleman will recall with the same pleasure as I do that when the Catholic emancipation legislation was going through this Parliament, the then Prime Minister--the Duke of Wellington--was about to propose the Catholic Archbishop of Armagh as Archbishop of Canterbury without realising that there were two.
Sir Michael McNair-Wilson : While I recognise the need for the talks to make progress, will my right hon. Friend consider whether, in view of the time lost in seeking an impartial chairman for the second stage, flexibility could be shown about the date on which the first stage of the talks is to conclude?
Mr. Brooke : The time allocated for the talks was decided between the parties and announced in my statement of 26 March. Any discussion of what we might do after 16 July when we have the next meeting of the intergovernmental conference should take place when we approach that date.
Mr. McNamara : The House will welcome the statement made by the four party leaders last week, because there was considerable disappointment in Northern Ireland and elsewhere about the difficulties that arose. The statement is therefore welcome and the leaders are to be congratulated on it. Can the Secretary of State inform the House whether
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in Monday's discussions he hopes to say something about the possibilities of a chairman for the second strand of talks?Mr. Brooke : It may be helpful if I say a word about the actions taken by the two Governments. Both before and since the four party leaders announced on 5 June the decision to start plenaries next Monday, the two Governments have continued to work actively for the appointment of a chairman. We have been assisted in that respect by names being put forward to us from several quarters, including some of the Northern Ireland parties. I shall meet the Irish Foreign Minister tomorrow to consider the matter, so, although we are not yet in a position to announce a name, the matter is very much in hand.
Mr. Budgen : Since the early 1970s there have been four or five initiatives of this sort, all of which failed. Will my right hon. Friend explain what special circumstances attach to these talks which enable him to believe that they will succeed where others have failed?
Mr. Brooke : My hon. Friend has always brought an agreeably sceptical attitude to these matters, but I remind him that one encouragement to all of those taking part in the talks is that we have been engaged in the process in one way or another for 17 months and we have managed to keep everyone involved and concerned that we continue to make progress. Until that ceases to be the case, I for one do not intend to speak in terms of failure.
Sea Communications
5. Mr. Wilson : To ask the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland what review he has undertaken of the existing sea communication between Northern Ireland and Scotland.
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Northern Ireland (Mr. Richard Needham) : None, Sir
Mr. Wilson : Does the Minister agree that while the advantages of shorter sea crossings are self-evident, there is a strong case to be made, particularly for passenger services, for crossings between ports that are close to the main centres of population? Does he further agree that it would be in the interests of the Northern Ireland economy as well as of my constituency to restore the traditional link between Belfast and Ardrossan? May we have an assurance in principle that if proposals to restore such a service, which I believe may be in the offing, come to the Northern Ireland Office, they will receive a positive response?
Mr. Clifford Forsythe : What steps has the Minister taken to investigate the fare structure and cost of travel between Northern Ireland and Scotland, especially in view of the Northern Ireland Consumer Council's complaints about it?
Mr. Needham : I understand the problem to which the hon. Gentleman alludes. Certainly, if it seems that the matter should be looked into, and if there is a restraint of trade we shall consider referring it to the Office of Fair Trading. There are about 100 crossings per week between
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the north of Ireland and the mainland, and the north is benefiting most from the economic upturn in trade between the two islands.Teachers (Redundancies)
6. Mr. William Ross : To ask the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland how many teachers he expects to be made redundant in Northern Ireland at the end of the 1991-92 school year.
Dr. Mawhinney : There are no forecasts for redundancies at the end of the 1991-92 school year.
Mr. Ross : Does the Minister accept that I find that comment surprising, because we seem to have redundancies every year and there seems to be a surplus of teachers at present? In the light of the apparent surplus, will he give careful consideration to making additional funds available so that teachers approaching retirement age can retire early, thus making space at the bottom of the scale for enthusiastic young teachers who have not had to go through the turmoil of endless revisions and reforms during the past two years? That enthusiasm would certainly be welcome in many schools.
Dr. Mawhinney : The amount of money made available for the teaching profession in terms of its numbers, the pupil-teacher ratio and the creation of new teacher posts has been admirable in the past few years. This very year, 100 new primary posts were added to the teaching complement. The pupil-teacher ratio is at an all-time high in Northern Ireland. Although I hear what the hon. Gentleman says, his remarks must be put in a wider context.
General Practitioners
7. Rev. Martin Smyth : To ask the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland how many applications have been received for general practitioner fund-holding practices.
Mr. Hanley : None, Sir. Applications have not yet been invited, but we are intending to do so by the end of this year.
Rev. Martin Smyth : Will the Minister kindly tell us the reason for the delay as the management plan said that applications should be in by 1 July? Is that a reflection of the fact that many GPs in Northern Ireland oppose fund-holding status?
Mr. Hanley : Fund-holding status has been well received within Great Britain and the Government remain fully committed to its implementation in Northern Ireland. As the hon. Gentleman rightly said, fund-holding will commence a year later than originally planned. The reason for the postponement is to allow the Department and the boards more time to undertake the detailed work involved in the implementation of fund-holding. To be frank, I believe that we can benefit from the opportunity to learn from the experience in Great Britain.
Security 8. Mr. Molyneaux : To ask the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland if he will make a statement on the security situation in Northern Ireland.
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Mr. Brooke : Since I answered a similar question on2 May, 13 people have been killed as a result of the security situation in Northern Ireland. Six were civilians, which number includes three suspected terrorists ; three were members of the Royal Ulster Constabulary, three were members of the Ulster Defence Regiment and one was a regular soldier.
Those stark figures demonstrate the grim reality of the terrorist threat. What they cannot show is the human heartbreak and misery caused by terrorism--or, indeed, the dedication and sacrifice of members of the security forces in protecting the community. The Government will not be deflected one iota from our commitment to the maintenance of the rule of law and defence of the democratic process.
Mr. Molyneaux : In view of the predicted and predictable increase in violence which has attended all initiatives in the past 20 years, will the Secretary of State take back to Cabinet the request of the two security chiefs for additional resources to be made available while the initiative completes its run?
Mr. Brooke : I am conscious of what underlies the right hon. Gentleman's question. It is a matter of satisfaction to the House that those taking part in the talks have adopted so robust an attitude to the level of terrorist violence during the process of the talks.
My right hon. and noble Friend the Paymaster General made clear on Tuesday, when speaking to the Police Federation, the process and status involved in the request from the Chief Constable for further additions to the RUC and the reserves--but, given the speculation in the press about other applications, it would not be appropriate for me to comment on that. I give the right hon. Gentleman the assurance that such matters are kept under permanent review.
Rev. William McCrea : Does the Secretary of State agree that my constituency has suffered in the past few weeks, as other constituencies have done previously? Bearing in mind the mass murder bid in Cookstown in a Protestant housing estate where more than 100 houses were seriously damaged and the serious bid by terrorists in the Coagh district to remove more innocent civilians of my area, will he accept that the House and the entire community owe a great debt of gratitude to members of the security forces for the manner in which they have helped to preserve life in Northern Ireland? Will he also accept that the people of my area, although relieved at the removal of dangerous terrorists, are rather anxious and apprehensive about the onslaught which we know that the IRA will make on our district?
Mr. Brooke : The whole House will join me in sympathising with the hon. Gentleman for what terrorism has meant in his constituency. It is occasionally worth remembering what it means. It means a man gunned down in front of his wife while working on their new home ; a father shot in front of his two young sons not even in their teens while a third child, a baby, slept ; and a son left to call his grandmother for help. I could go on with a litany of brutal, senseless violence, but that is what terrorism is all about. The hon. Gentleman was right to refer to the threat to a whole community constituted by the bomb which went off recently in a housing estate. I join him in his tribute to the security forces.
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Mr. Maginnis : Will the Secretary of State accept from me that the violence of terrorists is anything but senseless? It is quite deliberate and has been well orchestrated over the last five and a half years. I remind him that 346 people have died as a result of violence since the signing of the Anglo-Irish Agreement and that the annual murder rate has risen on average by 34 per cent. during that time. Would he think it unfair of me to observe that Ministers speak about terrorism as though it began a fortnight ago and will all be settled during the next fortnight? Does he realise that 20 years of suffering by the people of Northern Ireland deserves a better response when senior military and police officers in Northern Ireland ask for two extra battalions at this particularly sensitive time? Will he guarantee that those battalions will be provided to meet the request of senior officers?Mr. Brooke : I do not want in any sense to be combative in my approach to the hon. Gentleman, but I am not sure that he serves the interests of democracy and everything that we in this House hold good by suggesting that the violence of the terrorists is anything other than senseless, for he and I know that the terrorists are not going to win, and in that sense the violence is senseless.
As for the statistics that he quoted in relation to the Anglo-Irish Agreement, I remember intervening in a speech that he was making to ask him to comment, also in terms of the years concerned, on the assistance by way of massive armament resources that the IRA had received from Libya during the same period. He did not return to that matter in that speech.
No one can be more sure than I of what the 20 years have meant. In the context of the hon. Gentleman's question about force reinforcements, he will know as well as I that reinforcements are the more effective when they come as a surprise, as has happened in the past year.
Mr. Peter Robinson : Has the right hon. Gentleman yet received a report from the Chief Constable of the RUC arising from the investigation into irregularities in the investigation that led to prosecutions for the murder of Adrian Carroll? If he has received such a report, is he in a position to send the matter for retrial? If not, will he urge the Chief Constable to produce it expeditiously?
Mr. Brooke : The report from the RUC was delivered to my office in Belfast today. It is a large report and I cannot give a guarantee about the time it will take me to embrace it. Having assured the hon. Gentleman that it has reached me, I confirm, as I have said on previous occasions, that we shall deal as expeditiously as possible with the evidence presented to us.
Mr. McNamara : Is the Secretary of State aware that the Opposition support him in his statement about the timing and arrival of force reinforcements in Northern Ireland? That matter must be left to the discretion of the security chiefs and is not an issue which must be booted about abroad. Has the right hon. Gentleman had discussions with the Secretary of State for Defence about the implications of the Army cuts in Northern Ireland? Because it is of special interest to a particularly sensitive area, will he consider issuing a statement on the matter to clarify the possible options for security policy for Northern Ireland resulting from the cuts?
Mr. Brooke : My right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Defence and I have reasonably regular bilateral
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meetings to discuss security in Northern Ireland and the part that the armed forces play in it. When my right hon. Friend made his initial statement on the programme "Options for Change" in relation to cuts in the armed forces, he made clear in answer to an Opposition question that there would be no implications for the provision of the security forces in Northern Ireland and that they would be maintained at their previous level.Electricity Privatisation
9. Mr. Dickens : To ask the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland if he will make a statement on the process of the privatisation of Northern Ireland Electricity.
Mr. Needham : Work is progressing to implement the proposals set out in the White Paper.
Mr. Dickens : Since Northern Ireland is part of the United Kingdom-- an important part--are not the people and industry of Northern Ireland entitled to cheaper electricity? Would not the privatisation of Northern Ireland Electricity provide an opportuntity for a link between Northern Ireland and Scotland, plus an entry into the national grid, so that competition could bring to the people of Northern Ireland and their industry cheap electricity, which has been lacking for years?
Mr. Needham : I certainly agree with my hon. Friend that an interconnector between Northern Ireland and Scotland would be of immense benefit to Northern Ireland consumers, both commercial and domestic. It would connect Northern Ireland to the Scottish system ; through Scotland, it would be connected to the English system and, through England, to the French system. Therefore, we shall do everything we can to try to promote an interconnector.
Mr. Alton : In answering the hon. Member for Littleborough and Saddleworth (Mr. Dickens), the Minister did not say whether electricity in Northern Ireland would be cheaper. Will not electricity in Northern Ireland become more expensive as a result of the proposals? Having united every party in Northern Ireland in opposition to his plans, does the Minister accept that it would have been far better to introduce a Bill, which could have been amended and debated in the normal way? The democratic process could then have reflected the views of those who live in Northern Ireland.
Mr. Needham : Electricity in Northern Ireland costs, on average, some 30 per cent. more than in the rest of the country, so it is very expensive. One of the reasons is decisions made in the past. The system is not competitive in generation or in any other aspect. The introduction of competition is crucial to ensuring that prices in Northern Ireland are kept as low and as competitive as possible. I do not agree with the hon. Gentleman's remark that the Government's proposal will raise electricity prices, because the introduction of competition will keep them lower than they would otherwise have been.
Mr. Bellingham : Will there be a possibility, in the medium to long term, of members of the public owning shares in that company?
Mr. Needham : The Government have proposed a transmission, distribution and supply company, which we
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hope to be able to float. Most important, we want the people of Northern Ireland to be able to purchase shares in a utility in Northern Ireland, rather than having to participate in share schemes in Scotland or elsewhere in the country.Mr. Beggs : Has the Minister had an opportunity to refer to column 418 of Hansard on 16 May 1991, when the Treasury Minister replied to a question tabled by my hon. Friend the Minister for Londonderry, East (Mr. Ross)? He said that it was inconceivable that the employees of Northern Ireland Electricity and the citizens of Northern Ireland would not have an opportunity to buy shares in their own industry. Does the Minister agree with his hon. Friend or is the splitting up of Northern Ireland Electricity causing a split in the Conservative party?
Mr. Needham : So far as the transmission, distribution and supply company is concerned, of course I agree with my hon. Friend the Minister.
Mr. Jim Marshall : Will the Minister confirm that at its meeting on 3 May, the board of Northern Ireland Electricity decided to sack its chief executive? Why did the Government think it necessary to seek a reversal of that decision?
Mr. Needham : The Government did not seek any reversal. The Government do not interfere in Northern Ireland Electricity. The first that I knew of this was an article that I read in the Belfast Telegraph, suggesting that the information had been received by the hon. Gentleman and his hon. Friends. Perhaps they can explain where they got this information and why they are interfering in the affairs of Northern Ireland Electricity.
Political Talks
10. Mrs. Gorman : To ask the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland what representations he has received from the Conservative party in Northern Ireland regarding the talks on the future of the Province.
Mr. Brooke : Since my statement to the House on 26 March 1991, I have received one letter from the Northern Ireland Conservative area council regarding the current talks process. I am grateful for the message of support which it contained.
I have also received three letters from individuals living in Northern Ireland who identified themselves as members of the Conservative party.
Mrs. Gorman : Will my right hon. Friend be adopting, as I am sure that he will with his ministerial colleagues, the role of honest, and therefore neutral, broker at the talks? Will he assure Conservatives in Northern Ireland that the Government's view include those expressed recently by our party chairman, my right hon. Friend the Member for Bath and Wells, who said that the best way for the people of Northern Ireland to ensure that Northern Ireland Ministers in a Conservative Government reflect their views is for the Northern Ireland electorate to elect them themselves? Will my right hon. Friend confirm that he would welcome the election of Conservatives from Northern Ireland to the House to join their colleagues from other parts of the United Kingdom?
Mr. Brooke : I do not know the context in which the chairman of the Conservative party was speaking. In
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passing, I should perhaps point out that we have a bishop of Bath and Wells and a Member of Parliament for Bath and a Member of Parliament for Wells. If my right hon. Friend the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster and chairman of the Conservative party were to say that he thought that it would be best if every constituency in the kingdom were represented by a Conservative, how could a former chairman possibly disagree?
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