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Mr. Stuart Bell (Middlesborough) : I am grateful for the opportunity to lend my support to my hon. Friend the Member for Derbyshire, North-east (Mr. Barnes) and to congratulate him not only on choosing the subject of this Adjournment debate but on the fact that it coincides with the arrival of the peace train from Northern Ireland in Dublin, from where it will cross to Britain.
At the end of the first world war, Winston Churchill said that when the rigours of war were over we could still see the spires of Fermanagh and Tyrone beyond the mists, but the problems of Ireland to which he referred are still with us. The fact that they are still with us is no fault of the constitutional politicians who seek to resolve the issue through, for example the recent so-called Brooke initiative inaugurated by the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland and the work carried out consistently by Members of Parliament which, as my hon. Friend said, is often unsung and in most cases unknown. About six weeks ago, I took a party of Irish Members of Parliament from Dublin into the Stormont buildings in the north. It was an historic breakthrough in cross-border
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co-operation because it was the first time that Irish Members of Parliament had been to the former Stormont Parliament. The visit was achieved with the full co-operation of the Northern Ireland Office and other Ministers, one of whom came with us. He took the Irish TDs--much to their astonishment--for a walk in the centre of Belfast. It was an extraordinary experience, unaccompanied by any publicity. It was not a media event or part of a media circus ; it was an example of how people can come together in good faith in the interests of their community--the island of Ireland.One of the proponents of the new consensus scheme to which my hon. Friend referred comes from my constituency, and I welcome that involvement. The peace train is an example of people power. We often heard about people power in the 1960s and sometimes in the 1970s, but we have heard very little about it since then. The peace train is an example of people power, of people of good will sending a message to terrorists--whoever they happen to be, and on whatever side of the divide they stand--that enough is enough. Terrorism creates orphans and widows ; it does not resolve constitutional difficulties. I commend my hon. Friend on choosing the Adjournment debate and I am grateful to him for allowing me to speak for a few minutes. 3.43 pm
Dr. Norman A. Godman (Greenock and Port Glasgow) : It would be remiss of me not to compliment the honourable work of my hon. Friend the Member for Derbyshire, North-East (Mr. Barnes) in connection with the remarkable peace movement. Earlier today in an extraordinarily brief speech --extraordinarily brief for me--I offered my compliments and support to the people involved at a gathering in the Grand Committee Room.
The Minister has listened sympathetically and attentively to my hon. Friend's fine speech. I need hardly say that the beleaguered Province could be helped by the institution and recreation of the parliamentary institutions that we take for granted. I make the plea, which was also made last night by the right hon. Member for Lagan Valley (Mr. Molyneaux), that a small way in which we could help things in the Province would be the setting up of a Select Committee on Northern Ireland Affairs. In terms of democratic institutions within the parliamentary framework, that would be an extremely fine gesture for the Government and the House to make to the people of Northern Ireland.
3.44 pm
The Minister of State, Northern Ireland Office (Dr. Brian Mawhinney) : I add my congratulations to the hon. Member for Derbyshire, North- East (Mr. Barnes) on the way in which he introduced this short debate. I thank him for the happy circumstances that allowed the debate to take place on this day. I endorse the views expressed by the hon. Members for Middlesbrough (Mr. Bell) and for Greenock and Port Glasgow (Dr. Godman), both of whom have strong records of support for peace and better community relations in Northern Ireland. I pay tribute to both of them. I have heard the particular suggestion of the
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hon. Member for Greenock and Port Glasgow. I hope that he will forgive me if I do not respond to the substance of that in this debate.I pay special tribute to the hon. Member for Derbyshire, North-East. I know that he would be the first to say that the responsibility and kudos for the organisation of the peace train and its activities over the past couple of years, and especially the events of recent days, should go to others. I know that he would want that put on record. Nevertheless, it is right that the House should recognise that the hon. Gentleman has been a staunch supporter of the peace train movement and its activities, and of Families Against Intimidation and Terror on many occasions in the House. He has a bright and shining record in terms of cross-community activity. As he has told me on a number of occasions as we have debated these matters, his commitment arises out of his socialist beliefs. However, he has always recognised that whatever the motivation of various people who share the same objectives and aims as he has, he is willing to work with them. I pay tribute to him for that.
I join the hon. Gentleman in condemning all those who involve themselves in acts of terror and violence in Northern Ireland. He was right to stress that that condemnation extends to all those, from whatever source or corner, who engage in violence.
I was glad that the hon. Gentleman expanded the concept of the peace train and linked it to what has happened in Great Britain. I was also pleased that he was able to say a word of appreciation not only to the trade unions, but to British Rail for its co-operation in the endeavour.
There have been people who thought that by disrupting rail services in Northern Ireland, they were in some way scoring some big point. They were not. The hon. Gentleman was right. They were involved in economic disruption and it is especially ironic that those who give support to economic disruption are at the same time claiming in the newspapers to be friends of investment in Northern Ireland and to be looking for more jobs. They complain that other people do not provide more jobs in the Province. If Sinn Fein and the supporters of the Provisional IRA were more committed to the people of the Province, they would be less committed to condoning violence and more interested in promoting employment and new investment.
The hon. Gentleman was right to say that such people were involved not only in economic disruption, but in personal disruption. It is one of the pleasures--that may be an unusual word to use--of being a Northern Ireland Minister to see from time to time activities that are designed to drive people apart having the opposite effect--drawing people closer together and breaking down the boundaries that have existed for many years. Those who have been involved in the peace train activities in Northern Ireland epitomise the spirit of many similar groups and individuals throughout the island of Ireland who refuse to allow violence to cause lasting damage to cross-community relations.
The hon. Gentleman was kind enough to mention the fact that my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State has sent a message of support. In the past few days I have been asked to provide a similar personal message and I shall do so. However, I have been able to put my money where my mouth--and my pen--would normally be. As he knows, I have responsibility for the central committee for
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community relations. He will be pleased to know that the Northern Ireland Council for Community Relations has, to date, provided £8,500 for the funding of the peace train movement. If the movement introduces other projects that fall within the parameters of the community relations funding that we have set up in Northern Ireland, I am prepared to consider whether we can provide financial assistance for those projects. I hope that the hon. Gentleman will understand that that is a commitment of support, whatever the amount of money involved. The sums are not large but they are nevertheless important and can be used effectively. I hope that the hon. Gentleman will accept my comments in the spirit in which they are offered. The hon. Gentleman is right to draw attention, as he has on many other occasions, to Families Against Intimidation and Terror. He has spoken warmly of them and supported them before. It could be said that FAIT's work is conducted on a voluntary basis and has enjoyed, in its turn, some support from the peace train organisation. The hon. Gentleman will also be pleased to know--we have not mentioned it in public before--that the central community relations unit has been talking to Families Against Intimidation and Terror to see whether we can assist it. I am happy to say that we have agreed to provide a seeding grant of £4,000 to enable it to prepare a strategy for its future development, which we hope will have been prepared by the end of September. Again, although the sums of money are not large--in this case they do not have to be--they are a reflection of the support that the Government are prepared to give to those involved in a variety of activities and who seek to build bridges to accentuate the fact that, in Northern Ireland, people work together on a cross-community basis as a matter of course. They often pay no attention to the fact that they are working together on a cross-community basis and it has been most encouraging to see the growth in cross-community activities in the past few years. There is no time to set out all the activities now taking place in the Province which seek to enhance that common ground. The hon. Gentleman referred to that as a concomitant of the political processes in the Province.The hon. Gentleman mentioned trade unions and he will be pleased to know that I have visited one of the trade
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union headquarters in Northern Ireland and talked to its members about providing substantial support over a number of years to develop a programme within the union to bring people together. It could be used as a basis for extending the programme to other trade union activities in the Province. We are also talking to business and industry about what they may be able to do in the workplace to extend cross- community support.The hon. Gentleman also mentioned integrated education. It is a matter of personal and governmental pride that, later this year, the new buildings for Lagan college will be open--it was the first of the secondary schools with integrated education in Northern Ireland. It is now one of only 12 such schools, but the number is growing at the rate of about two a year. In those schools parents from both sides of the community--because they demanded it, not because the Government willed it--have their children educated in the same classroom. There are children from both sides of the community in a school which places an equal value on both traditions--an important aspect. Hon. Members know that integrated education will not be a panacea for the problems in Northern Ireland. Changes in the curriculum in schools include education for mutual understanding, cultural heritage, a unified history curriculum for the first time, and agreement is imminent on a core religious education curriculum--all of which will be applied to all the schools in the Province. That shows the way forward that is being taken.
We have had a good debate on a subject which is important and is changing the face of Northern Ireland for the better. The message that should go out from this debate is clear : terrorists should know that there are far too many decent, law-abiding, democracy-loving people in the Republic of Ireland, Northern Ireland and Great Britain for terrorism to succeed, whatever the price. The desire for peace which is in the hearts of the majority of people will ultimately defeat terrorism. I pay tribute today to all those who have brought that day one step closer.
Question put and agreed to.
Adjourned accordingly at three minutes to Four o'clock.
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