House of Commons Hansard Debates for 11 Dec 1991

Mr. Andrew Welsh : Does the Minister agree that agriculture is the backbone of the rural economy and that the loss to the Angus economy of more than £1 million due to the closure of Anglia Canners in Brechin is a body blow to agriculture, transport, ancillary industries and the whole community? As that area of high unemployment has now lost 91 full- time jobs and 41 part-time jobs, what action does the Minister intend to take to sort the problem out?

Mr. Forsyth : As the hon. Gentleman will know, much of our agriculture policy is determined at Community level, so the strength of our voice in the Community is important. If the hon. Gentleman had his way and we had an independent Scotland, we would have four votes instead of 10 and our influence in being able to fight for the interests of Scotland's farmers would be less.

Scotland in Europe

12. Mrs. Ray Michie : To ask the Secretary of State for Scotland when he last met CBI (Scotland) to discuss the role of Scotland in Europe.

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Mr. Allan Stewart : My right hon. Friend the Secretary of State and I have regular exchanges of views with CBI (Scotland) on a variety of matters. Scotland's role in Europe has featured in those exchanges.

Mrs. Michie : Will not CBI (Scotland) take a dim view of the Government's decision to opt out of a commitment to the single currency? Because of the Government's apparent lack of enthusiasm for all things European, and their determination to go along a slow track, will not Scotland lose out again without any chance of the central bank being cited in Glasgow or Edinburgh?

Mr. Stewart : I disagree with the hon. Lady and I have no doubt that CBI (Scotland) would also do so--[ Hon. Members :-- "Oh."]--on that matter. In relation to the agreement on social policy at Maastricht, I noted that Jacques Delors has suggested that the United Kingdom will now be a haven for inward investment from the United States and Japan. On this occasion, I agree with Mr. Delors.

Mr. Ian Bruce : Does my hon. Friend agree that the CBI, in Scotland and in the rest of the United Kingdom, is keen to see flexibility in our social standards and would not wish Scotland to be signed up to a social charter restricting the freedom of workers and employers alike, who look forward to continuing to be a magnet for inward investment from Japan and from the rest of the European Community ?

Mr. Stewart : As I suggested in my previous answer, I am sure that my hon. Friend is absolutely right. I have no doubt that the agreement that has been reached will enhance the position of the United Kingdom in relation to the creation of enterprise and the attraction of inward investment. I am sure that that view is shared by Scotland.

Mr. Dewar : When considering our relationships with Europe, will the Minister explain to the CBI why agreeing to a social charter which gives protection to the young employed, gives equal status to part-time workers and sets decent standards for maternity leave should be a barrier to prosperity, given the experience of France and of Germany ? Why cannot this country afford social justice when the Governments of Portugal and of Greece have no doubt where the balance lies ? Is it not shameful that Britain should opt out in that way ? Is not the Minister embarrassed that 11 countries are signing a protocol stipulating that the United Kingdom will take no part in the Community's deliberations on the social agenda ? Is that not a humiliating prospect for the Edinburgh summit next year ?

Mr. Stewart : The hon. Gentleman is talking absolute nonsense, as will be confirmed when my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister makes his statement to the House later this afternoon. I emphasise that I do not believe that it is right to agree to measures which are damaging to the Scottish or to the British economy, and we have not done so. I also emphasise our excellent record on structural funds from the Community, from which Scotland has gained £1.25 billion under this Government.

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Homelessness

13. Sir Russell Johnston : To ask the Secretary of State for Scotland what proposals he has for the alleviation of homelessness in Scotland.

Lord James Douglas-Hamilton : To help Scottish local authorities carry out their statutory duties towards the homeless, we have among other things made available in the current financial year extra capital allocations of £3.5 million announced earlier, and of £4.1 million, the specific allocation of which will be announced tomorrow. We have increased housing support grant so that all local authorities that incur a deficit in running a hostel will qualify for grant. We have issued an updated code of guidance for authorities dealing with applicants under the homelessness legislation. On 6 December, I announced a further £7.5 million capital allocation for projects for 1992-93.

Sir Russell Johnston : Regarding the £4 million, is not telling local authorities that they have to produce schemes within two weeks and that the money has to be spent by March a disorderly way of doing things? If £4 million is divided by the number of district authorities in Scotland, they will have £355,000 apiece. That is a pathetic response to the size of the problem, which is extremely serious in my area.

Lord James Douglas-Hamilton : The hon. Gentleman's own authority in Inverness will be one of those that will benefit. Authorities that feel that they have not benefited sufficiently will be considered for the £7.5 million allocation for next year. I ask the hon. Gentleman to bear in mind all the other sources of public funds that are available. Scottish Homes has brought back into use 1,000 units that it has helped to create in the past two years. Our revised code of guidance has been warmly welcomed by authorities. [Interruption.]

Mr. Speaker : Order. It is very gratifying to see such an interest in Scottish questions. I ask hon. Members to listen carefully to the questions and answers because they will find them enlightening.

Mr. McFall : The Minister will remember that the Stopover project in my constituency, which was designed to allow 16 young homeless people to stay in the area, was rejected by the Scottish Office last year. Only last month, my council applied for extra funding for another eight young people to be retained in the constituency rather than making the futile trek southwards. Those positive initiatives have the support of the entire council. Will the Minister respond positively by stating that he will grant both applications to allow that small number of people to be retained in my constituency? That would help the problem of homelessness in Dumbarton.

Lord James Douglas-Hamilton : I can tell the hon. Gentleman that his local authority of Dumbarton will benefit. The details will be spelt out tomorrow. I can also tell him that urban aid of £9.7 million has been made available over the years for homelessness projects in Scotland. That comes within the responsibility of my fellow Under-Secretary of State, my hon. Friend the Member for Eastwood (Mr. Stewart), who will have heard what the hon. Gentleman said about further applications.

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Defence Industries Initiative

14. Mr. Strang : To ask the Secretary of State for Scotland how many direct employees of Scottish Enterprise are currently working on the defence industries initiative he announced on 14 October 1991 ; and if he will make a statement on the actions which have so far been taken.

Mr. Allan Stewart : The allocation of Scottish Enterprise staff to particular projects is a matter for the body itself. So far, a survey has been conducted of companies in the defence sector in Scotland and work is in hand to develop the best approach to assisting these companies. The nature of future activity will depend on the outcome of this work.

Mr. Strang : Against the background of the thousands of jobs that have been lost in the defence industries in the past couple of years, and the thousands likely to be lost in the future, is not the Government's initiative wholly inadequate? When will the Minister accept that only when the Government can find new money for research and development, retraining and investment in new facilities will there be a real impact on this serious problem in the Scottish economy?

Mr. Stewart : I do not accept the hon. Gentleman's criticisms for one moment. The key decisions on diversifying in defence-related companies must be taken by those companies. With regard to the work being undertaken by Scottish Enterprise, it is hoped that early in the new year there will be a version of the work being done--not including commercially confidential information. It will show the hon. Gentleman that his criticisms are wholly unjustified.

Mr. Michael J. Martin : The Minister will recall that when he was a Scottish Office Minister before, he offered Springburn a special initiative to help with unemployment. The demise of the defence jobs has added to the difficulties in my constituency, where many workers travel to Yarrow's and to Barr and Stroud. What action is the Minister taking to help with unemployment in the north end of Glasgow?

Mr. Stewart : The primary responsibility for that lies with the Glasgow Development Agency. I know that it is taking a full part in the exercise being undertaken by Scottish Enterprise. I should be happy to discuss any particular problems with the hon. Gentleman at any time.

NHS Trusts

15. Mr. Nigel Griffiths : To ask the Secretary of State for Scotland what further representations he has received on hospitals applying for trust status.

Mr. Lang : My hon. Friend the Minister of State and I regularly receive representations, both for and against, on the subject of NHS trusts. I have now approved three applications.

Mr. Griffiths : Does the Secretary of State agree with Duncan McNeill, whom he appointed to promote his hospital trusts, that trust status provides an alternative to operating and remaining within the mainstream national health service? Does he realise that for patients throughout

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Scotland, including those in the Edinburgh royal infirmary and the Royal hospital for sick children, that is a chilling message?

Mr. Lang : I have a great admiration for Mr. Duncan McNeill, and also a great approbation for the concept of trust status for hospitals. Contrary to the rumours constantly spread by the Labour party, such hospitals remain in the national health service and continue to provide a free service at the point of delivery.

Mr. Galbraith : Is the Secretary of State aware that the first wave of opt-outs in England were examined by Coopers and Lybrand, which found that 45 of the 57 were financially non-viable? Was a similar exercise carried out in Scotland? If so, will the Secretary of State make the results publicly available? If not, why not? Is this another example of the Government opting out, as they do in Europe?

Mr. Lang : The hon. Gentleman is talking nonsense and yet again trying to mislead the public on the achievements of hospital trusts. The fact is that those hospitals south of the border that have achieved trust status are now delivering more patient care, recruiting more consultants and buying more equipment, and improving the service that they provide to the public in their areas.

Erskine Bridge

16. Mr. Graham : To ask the Secretary of State for Scotland if he will make a statement on the future financial provision for the Erskine bridge.

Lord James Douglas-Hamilton : Financial provision for the Erskine bridge is contained within the overall trunk road provision for Scotland. Arrangements for the financing of the bridge beyond the end of the extended tolling period in 1996 are under consideration.

Mr. Graham : Does the Secretary of State realise that we were promised 20 years ago that after 20 years the toll would be abolished? [Interruption.]

Mr. Speaker : Order. I wish to hear what the hon. Gentleman has to say.

Mr. Graham : I am most grateful for your assistance, Mr. Speaker. When I heard the rowdy noise earlier, I was sure that there was a John Doe- -dead on arrival--back from Maastricht.

Is the Minister aware that the people of Dumbarton and Renfrewshire are sick and tired of paying the toll given that, after 20 years, the promise to abolish it has not been fulfilled, even though local business men, the local community councils and even some Tories wish it to go? Why does not the Minister support the local economy in Renfrewshire and Dumbartonshire by abolishing the toll now? Why does not he give freedom to the people of Scotland to move about without dipping into their pockets?

Lord James Douglas-Hamilton : I regard the toll as absolutely fair in the circumstances. The bridge cost £10 million or more to build and successive Governments have supported the tolling of estuarial crossings of this nature. The tolling period will extend to 1 July 1996 and the Government will then make a decision about the future.

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Forestry Commission

17. Mr. David Evans : To ask the Secretary of State for Scotland what is the total acreage of land sold by the Forestry Commission in the last five years ; and if he will make a statement.

Mr. Michael Forsyth : The Forestry Commission sold 42,800 hectares of land in the five years to 31 March 1991.

Mr. Evans : Is my hon. Friend aware that 40 per cent. of all men and women have walking as their main sport? Can he assure me that the woodlands sold off by the commission will be accessible to all walkers, especially as after the next election a lot of Scottish Labour Members will have a lot of time to do a lot of walking?

Mr. Forsyth : As a walker myself, I agree with my hon. Friend that access ought to be continued in respect of land that is disposed of by the Forestry Commission. As my hon. Friend will know, an agreement dating back to November last year provides for the Forestry Commission to offer land to local authorities prior to disposal so that an agreement can be reached with regard to access. I hope that my hon. Friend feels that that is a step in the right direction.

Lockerbie

18. Mr. Dalyell : To ask the Secretary of State for Scotland if he will make a statement on the discussions which the Lord Advocate has had with representatives of the German Government and the Bundeskriminalamt about the alleged use by Libyans or the Libyan People's Bureau of premises in East Berlin in relation to his inquiry into the Lockerbie bombing.

Lord James Douglas-Hamilton : No, Sir. Discussions by the Lord Advocate and his representatives with the authorities of other countries in criminal investigations are confidential.

Mr. Dalyell : Will the Government confirm that when the former Prime Minister, the right hon. Member for Finchley (Mrs. Thatcher), and President Reagan dispatched the bombers that had the effect of bombing the residential areas of Tripoli and Benghazi in 1986-- [Interruption.]

Mr. Speaker : Order. Mr. Dalyell.

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Mr. Dalyell : Against the evidence of the German authorities and the German police, and given that even the Israeli secret service thinks that others may have been involved, would it not at least be a sensible plan to talk to the Arab League about the very serious problem of Lockerbie and at least consider accepting the request to send British and American judges in the first instance to a trial under Libyan law?

Lord James Douglas-Hamilton : I cannot comment on the evidence, but the Lord Advocate has made it extremely clear that the criminal proceedings are the result of an extremely brilliant, thorough and painstaking investigation by the Scottish police services and their colleagues, to whom I also pay tribute. We have rightly increased their allocations this year. The detailed points raised by the hon. Member for Linlithgow (Mr. Dalyell) are matters for my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs, who will have heard what the hon. Gentleman has said.

Health Boards

19. Mr. Ernie Ross : To ask the Secretary of State for Scotland when he last met the chairman of health boards in Scotland to discuss finance.

Mr. Michael Forsyth : I meet chairmen regularly to discuss a wide range of strategic issues affecting the management of the NHS in Scotland.

Mr. Ross : When the Minister next meets the chairmen of the health boards in Scotland, will he have had a chance to study the correspondence from Tayside about the relocation of the casualty department of Dundee royal infirmary to a green-field site at Ninewells ? Given that the health board has said that it will have difficulty finding the money for that relocation and upgrading, will the Minister consider favourably any requests that may be made at the meeting ?

Mr. Forsyth : That is clearly a matter for the Tayside health board. However, it may interest the hon. Gentleman to know that, as part of the patients charter initiative, we will take steps to consider accident and emergency and casualty cover to improve standards of provision applying to Tayside and to all other health boards.

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