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Mr. Bob Cryer (Bradford, South) : When we debated the Ways and Means resolutions that were the legislative underpinning for this Bill, the hon. Member for Faversham (Mr. Moate), a Conservative Member of Parliament, made the very point that my hon. Friend has just made--that the Bill will be a disincentive against entering the housing market after its provisions end. He pleaded with the Government to assure him that the cutting of stamp duty would continue after August. Therefore, I was surprised when the hon. Member for Beaconsfield (Mr. Smith) stabbed one of his hon. Friends in the back, and made such sneering remarks.
Dr. Marek : My hon. Friend must know what the Conservative party is like. It does not surprise me. The record will show the truth of the matter.
There was further press comment after Christmas. As I am sure that hon. Members would like to know the source
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of the article to which I shall refer, I shall not paraphrase. The article appeared in The Guardian on 4 January and was written by Simon Beavis, the business correspondent. It reads :"The Government's decision to suspend stamp duty payments on housing transactions will do nothing to revive house prices or housebuilding before 1993, a leading construction industry chief said, yesterday.
This would make the present downturn in the housing market one of the longest on record, John Smith, chairman of the Building Employers' Confederation, said.
The depressed construction sector saw no prospect of recovery this year even if the economy as a whole began to improve. Despite a rise in new housing starts in the third quarter of 1991, the housing market as a whole shows no sign of real revival', he said." An eminent person who is involved in the construction industry is saying that the Bill will not help it. I have already said that it will not help manufacturing, trade or employment. It will not help either anyone who has had his house repossessed or someone who is in mortgage difficulties. If the article is right, it will not help anybody in the construction industry. The article continues : "His bleak assessment coincided with the new poll by Gallup for Gartmore, the investment management group, which found that one in five people are waiting until after the election before moving home. Four out of 10 thought that the recession would not end before 1993."
Even the Prime Minister is hedging his bets now and thinking that it might not end until 1993.
When commenting on the eight-month abolition of stamp duty, Mr. Smith, who is the chairman of the Building Employers Confederation, said that
"the new measures introduced to stem repossessions would help to reduce the stock of unsold new houses, but did not go far enough. It will be 1993 before we see any real recovery in house prices and housebuilding.' "
Mr. Harry Cohen (Leyton) : One of the problems with the present level of house prices is that many people have a house that would sell for less than the mortgage which is attached to it. If such a person sold his house he would still be indebted, and possibly considerably. Does my hon. Friend agree that the Government have not addressed that problem in terms of the Bill and, indeed, have not given any consideration to the people who are in the plight that I have described ?
Dr. Marek : My hon. Friend is right. I hope that he will seek to catch your eye later in the debate, Mr. Deputy Speaker, with a view to advancing those arguments. There is nothing in the Bill from which anyone in difficulties can take consolation.
The Government have a large majority in the House, although they obtained only 42 per cent. of the vote in 1987, and I do not fancy my chances, along with my right hon. and hon. Friends, of beating them, in trying to improve the Bill or in adding to it measures that would make the Bill more acceptable and protect those who are in difficulties with their mortgage arrears or who have had their homes repossessed. We shall, however, have to wait and see.
The green shoots of the economy have, unfortunately, been frozen off. The plant was left outside in the back garden and the frost has got it. That is being admitted by the Government, including the Prime Minister. There are many glum faces among Members on the Government Benches.
Mr. Maude : That is because they are listening to the hon. Gentleman.
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Dr. Marek : Indeed. They are hearing and agreeing with the veracity of my remarks.There is no recovery in sight, and any recovery that there may be will be spasmodic and minor. The Government, typically, have not produced a Bill that will get the economy back into shape by kick-starting it. They are trying to kick-start a spurious housing market to try to create a consumer boom, to make people think that they are wealthy and to make them feel good so that they can win the election. It is all about the election and gimmickry ; it is not about good government and it is certainly not about consideration for those who have housing difficulties.
I remind the House that this change in Government policy is not the only one. The Prime Minister, when he was a social security Minister, cut mortgage support from 100 per cent. to 50 per cent. for the first six months for people who had to live on benefit either because they had been made redundant or because they had become unemployed. Indeed, when the right hon. Gentleman introduced the measure five years ago he boasted about it. He said that there was too much support for housing. Now, the Government have come round full circle. Suddenly, the reality of an election is before them and they can see the deadline of the buffers only a few yards ahead of them. That is why they are trying to help the housing market in such a peculiar way. There has been another change in Tory party philosophy recently. Only a year ago, mortgage interest relief at 40 per cent. was withdrawn and restricted to the 30 per cent. tax rate.
Sir William Clark : Twenty-five per cent.
The Minister for Shipping (Mr. Patrick McLoughlin) : A Freudian slip.
Dr. Marek : It was not a Freudian slip. The real rate of taxation under the Tory Government is 25p in the pound plus 9p for national insurance, which makes 34 per cent. Under the last Labour Government, national insurance was only 6.5p in the pound. Value added tax was only 8 per cent., but under the Tories it is now 17.5 per cent. Under Labour, the burden of taxation was about 34 per cent. ; under the Tories, it is 37 per cent. I do not need any lectures on who is the high taxing party--it is the Tories-- [Laughter.] They may laugh, but let them challenge what I am saying. I shall give way to any Tory Member who wishes to do so. The high taxing party is the Tory party. The burden of taxation in the 1980s was always higher than it was in the 1970s. I am waiting for a Tory Member to challenge my figures. Of course, no one will do so-- [Interruption.] Oh, one will.
Mr. Maude : The hon. Gentleman knows that the burden of taxation on present taxpayers rose in the first two years of this Government because the last Labour Government had spread the burden of taxation on to the next generation. We had to unmortgage the country's future, and since then the burden of taxation has steadily fallen.
Dr. Marek : My recollection of events is slightly different. Before 1979, the Conservative party said that it had no proposals to put up value added tax. As soon as it
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came to office, it almost doubled it, from 8 per cent. to 15 per cent. That was why the burden of taxation shot up between 1979 and 1981. That is a slightly different story.Mr. Cryer : Does my hon. Friend agree that the burden of taxation is actually higher under the Tories, but they carefully differentiate between direct and indirect taxation? The combination of the two is much higher under the Tories. The increase in value added tax bears most heavily on the poor as it is a bigger share of their income than it is of the income of the wealthy. Therefore, under the Tories not only has the burden of tax increased overall ; it has actually increased more for the poor.
Dr. Marek : There is much in what my hon. Friend says. I do not want to digress too much, but we are talking about taxation : the Bill gives away money and forgoes tax revenue. The Government could have kept that money, or at least given it away in a different manner. Although VAT in this country is not as regressive as it is in other European Community member states, it has certain regressive aspects.
The proportion of our national income that is taken in tax has risen from 34.75 per cent. in 1978-79 to 37 per cent. in 1991-92. In 1978-79, a married couple on typical earnings paid 30.9 per cent. of their income in tax ; now, they pay 34.9 per cent. There is no doubt that the burden of taxation has risen, although there may be arguments across the Floor of the House about the reasons for that rise ; and the fact is that the Conservatives are the high-tax party.
I cannot argue that, because the Government are giving back a little tax, we should vote against the Bill, and I shall not urge my hon. Friends to oppose its Second Reading--although we retain our right to examine the amendments carefully. None the less, I wish that the Government had presented us with a different Bill, and that the taxation that is being forgone was being forgone in a better way. It is clear that the Conservative party is rattled, for it has changed its philosophy. At one stage, they say that we should not interfere with the market ; at another stage, they say that we should. I think that I have demonstrated that the Bill is an election gimmick, and that after 9 April--or is it 7 May?--it will be speedily forgotten.
Perhaps it is not too late for the Government to propose an adjournment, so that we can return to the Bill next week or at some other time. Perhaps they will change their mind, and incorporate some of our suggestions. Labour's programme is eminently sensible. We propose, for instance, that local authorities be enabled to acquire properties selectively on the private market. Why was not something done? Why was a deal reached quietly, with building societies and banks saying, "We will not go so heavy on repossessions if you--the Government--forgo taxation in the form of stamp duty, and also insist that DSS money is forwarded directly to us rather than being given to home owners"?
Why did not the Bill contain a provision enabling local authorities to acquire properties? Housing associations could and should be encouraged to enter into deals with local authorities enabling them to manage temporary accommodation on authorities' behalf ; authorities could be enabled to acquire buildings and convert them into short-stay hostels for homeless people ; social landlords could be urged to adopt "living above the shop" initiatives,
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which have been pioneered in Cambridge and elsewhere. Local authorities could be encouraged to speed up the letting of their empty properties ; the Housing Corporation could monitor the number of empty properties that each Department has, and the information would be passed to the relevant Secretary of State and the National Audit Office. That would exert pressure on Departments to bring their empty properties swiftly into use.The Bill could have launched a real attack on the appalling state of housing in this country, and on the crisis that we face. Nothing in it, however, remotely suggests that the Government are thinking along those lines, or intend to present the House with another Bill in the future. Local authorities could have a right to acquire derelict private properties. Housing association and local authority homes which are unjustifiably left empty for long periods could be given to other social landlords to be managed more effectively. Moreover, it could be made more cost effective for local authorities to lease decent homes from the private rented sector for use as temporary accommodation.
In addition, there is the Labour party scheme to turn mortgage interest repayments into rent. There would be a part mortgage repayment and a part rent repayment, if people got into difficulties. I understand from my Front Bench Environment colleagues that the Opposition have been talking to the Council of Mortgage Lenders for some time about these matters, yet the Government have not seen fit to do anything positive to try to get round this terrible crisis. This is an election gimmick proposal. Interest rates are at a record level. In 1979 the Conservative party promised to keep mortgages below 10 per cent. but they have been below 10 per cent. on only one or two occasions. If anybody looks at interest rates under the Labour party in the 1970s and compares them with the interest rates of the Conservative party in the 1980s, he or she will see the great
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difference between the interest rate policies of the two parties. I have every confidence that after the next election the Labour Government will pursue the same policy of low interest rates. The number of mortgage repossessions represents an all-time record. Figures provided by the Lord Chancellor's Department show that 33,778 families were served with mortgage repossession orders in the first six months of 1991. The figure for the whole of 1991 will be about 80,000 properties repossessed, yet the Bill does nothing whatsoever to make that figure 77,999 even. Not one house that has been repossessed will be affected by the Bill.There is a record shortage of affordable housing. More than 1.25 million homes have been sold, yet very few of those homes have been replaced. The total number of homes built by local authorities in 1990 was a mere 13,000 compared with 92,000 in the final year of the last Labour Government.
Finally, we have record levels of homelessness. In 1990, 145,800 households were accepted as homeless by English local authorities, compared with 56,000 in 1979. That is the legacy of 13 years of wasted Conservative Administration : more repossessions, more homelessness, higher interest rates and a disdain about doing anything for the average human being in this country who, through no fault of his or her own but as the result of the Tory party's policies, has suffered the effects of persistent high unemployment. It is a terrible indictment that has not been lost upon the voting public.
The Bill will help none of those unfortunate people. It will not help the economy. It will not kick-start anything, but the Government will, no doubt, continue to kick everything. However, it will not be long before we have a Government who will do something about the current appalling housing crisis. That will be the Labour Government who will take office after the next general election--when this Government dare to call it.
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10.58 pmMr. A. J. Beith (Berwick-upon-Tweed) : The Bill does not address the housing crisis. That does not mean that it ought necessarily to be opposed. I am not clear, having listened to the speech of the hon. Member for Wrexham (Dr. Marek), whether the Labour party intends to oppose the Bill. I do not believe that it should be opposed and I intend to say why. Nevertheless, it is a wholly inadequate response to a desperate housing crisis.
The unlocking of council house money that is in council bank accounts--the receipts from council house sales--and the use of a significant part of that money to replace the houses that have been sold and to deal with the homelessness that so many local authorities face would be of considerable benefit to the housing market. A more determined effort to stem the repossessions and to turn mortgages into rents for those for whom a mortgage is no longer a financially viable option would be a significant contribution to the solution of the housing crisis. An attempt to attract private capital into the purchase and building of homes for rent could also make a significant contribution.
The Government have not sought the most cost-effective solution. The use of the business expansion scheme for building houses to rent has not proved a cost-effective means of stimulating the private rented sector. It is important to enlarge that sector, and the Labour party could encourage the investment of substantial capital by making it clear that there will be no wholesale imposition of rent controls.
Mr. Cryer : Is the hon. Gentleman saying that the Liberal party favours the abolition of rent control so that private landlords can rip off tenants with impunity? That surely is a new aspect of Liberal party policy, on which he might enlarge.
Mr. Beith : I thought the hon. Gentleman might say that. We are not arguing for the removal of the remaining limited rent controls, but I gather from what the hon. Gentleman says that the Labour party favours a return to a wholesale rent control system. On the basis of experience, I tell him that it simply will not work. It would ensure, as it did for many years, that no private capital was invested in rented housing because it would not be possible to obtain a return. Liberal Democrats do not believe that the private housing sector can meet all our housing needs, but it can make a bigger contribution than it has in recent years. One of the tragedies of the post-war years was that the significant contribution that the private sector made--many people of my age grew up in privately rented housing--was gradually whittled away. Our housing opportunities were only purchase and the then large municipal sector ; the options in between were insufficient.
There are now other elements in the equation such as the considerable social housing sector provided by voluntary housing associations, assisted by the Housing Corporation. The market is more complex than before, but the private sector has a significant part to play in the provision of rented housing. It will not play that part if there is a prospect of the wholesale imposition of rent controls. As the housing market is so badly off, the introduction of a potential new purchaser--the private landlord buying or building to rent--would be helpful. It would act as a significant stimulus to the housing market.
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All those measures would have a more significant effect on the housing market than will the Bill, which is unlikely to make much difference, because houses are being sold for thousands of pounds less than people paid for them or the price at which they were valued 12 or 18 months ago. A difference of £600 on an average price house may be helpful and welcome to purchasers, but it is unlikely to generate more sales than a price drop of £5,000.I am sceptical about the impact of the Bill. The Government are using the windfall gain of stamp duty revenue that would have been forgone if the stock exchange had been ready with its new transactions system for the abolition of stamp duty on share transactions.
I do not like stamp duty ; I would rather get rid of it altogether. However, it is not top of my list for tax reforms or the removal of taxes. I would rather get rid of the poll tax, the council tax or even the 17.5 per cent. rate of VAT, which seems a particularly heavy burden on the pressed consumer market. I would not argue for the permanent retention of stamp duty on housing transactions, especially as we have got rid of it for so many other transactions.
We are not even considering a measure based on the belief that stamp duty should go, because it is to be reimposed on 20August this year. It is a piece of temporary fiscal fine-tuning and the Government are not supposed to be in favour of fiscal fine-tuning. Ministers are always telling us what a bad thing it is, but I see no reason why we should not give it a go and discover whether it will have a beneficial effect on the housing market.
There will be some concern and opposition on 20 August when the duty is reimposed, but, as the hon. Member for Beaconsfield (Mr. Smith) rightly said, the extent of the anguish will be in direct proportion to its significance to the housing market in the meantime. I assume that it will not be that great, but that it will be welcome to those who are able to benefit from it because they are able to manage a house purchase during that period. Those who buy a house after 20 August will feel considerably aggrieved that they have not been able to benefit. The Government will not gain much popularity, but by then it will all be over so they will not be very worried. They may be sitting on the Opposition Benches by then and it will have long ceased to be a matter of concern to them.
I do not think that the limited nature of the Bill or its temporary character is any reason why hon. Members should want to march enthusiastically into the Lobbies and deprive potential beneficiaries of the short-term ability to purchase a house without the imposition of stamp duty. The duty is an irritant to many people, and many buyers--especially first-time buyers--feel that it is a tax that they should not have to bear. Such buyers are often most stretched when they first undertake a purchase and in the early months of payment, especially when the interest rates are as high as they have been recently.
I shall not oppose the Bill and I invite my hon. Friends not to do so. I hope that it goes through all its stages tonight. I am not aware that it is riddled with so many drafting defects that it need take us all night to dispatch the business, but there seems to be considerable zeal for detailed scrutiny by hon. Members around me. I am not quite sure what the motivation for that is, but I shall be interested to see whether the Opposition discover a drafting defect.
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What sticks in my mind after studying the Bill is how little the Government are assuming that the housing market will change. I raised that point when we discussed the Ways and Means resolution. The Minister said that it was not reasonable to talk about revenue forgone in respect of improvements in the housing market because they would not have happened if the measure had not been introduced. However, if the Government expect the measure to cost only £400 million, they must be assuming that during this period there would have been no increase in housing transactions and no increase in housing values, except the little and the few induced by the Bill. That is a pretty depressing forecast for the housing market, but it is perhaps the Government's most honest recent forecast on any of the economic indicators. It suggests that the housing market will be in such a poor way during the coming months that the Bill is unlikely to make a great deal of difference.11.7 pm
Mr. Hugo Summerson (Walthamstow) : It is a pleasure to follow the hon. Member for Berwick-upon-Tweed (Mr. Beith). I agreed with much of what he said about the impact of stamp duty on the housing market and what an irritant it is.
I declare an interest as a chartered surveyor. As such, I have been involved in many property transactions and I take this opportunity to welcome the Bill, which will reduce the cost of such transactions. The costs are far too high and have been for a long time. I have previously attacked the conveyancing system which gives many lawyers the opportunity to rake in large amounts of money. I believe that the system should be simplified so that it is not necessary to use the services of lawyers. Of course, it is not strictly necessary to use lawyers in property transactions now, but most people find it convenient, if expensive, to do so.
It is not necessary to use the services of estate agents when selling property. Many people think that they have to use estate agents when selling property. I assure them that they do not have to do so and that they can save themselves large amounts if they do it themselves.
We have heard from the hon. Member for Wrexham (Dr. Marek) about the Bill. I thought that I heard the sound of many red herrings being dragged about, especially the little dissertation on VAT. The hon. Gentleman conveniently forgot that, under the previous Labour Government, there was a higher rate of VAT, at 25 per cent., on so-called "luxury" items, which included television sets. On that basis, that rate being three times as high as the then so-called "basic" rate of VAT, if there were ever another Labour Government, would they apply the same differential, with VAT on television sets being raised to 52.5 per cent?
Mr. Thomas Graham (Renfrew, West and Inverclyde) : Is the hon. Gentleman aware that the former Prime Minister stated that under no circumstances would the Conservative Government double VAT?
Mr. Summerson : I am talking about the Labour party, following what it did last time and tripling the rate of VAT on so-called "luxury" items.
Once the Bill has become law, I recommend that the London borough of Waltham Forest reduces its enormous holdings of property. That Labour- controlled council
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owns property which brings in at least £1 million. Anyone who walks down Hoe street in my constituency will come across two shops side by side which are derelict and boarded up. They been derelict and boarded up for years. That council is always complaining about lack of money, yet is has resources to hand, and if it only used them it could benefit the entire community.The hon. Member for Wrexham spoke a great deal about whether the Bill would kick-start the market. I remind him that kick-starting is a rather inefficient method by which to start a very small engine. The housing market in such terms is rather a large engine. We shall never be able to kick-start it ; we need a battery by which to get it going. The Bill will put some charge into the battery. A number of factors will get the housing market moving and the Bill is just one of them. Any reduction in the cost of buying and selling property is welcome. I welcome the Bill.
11.12 pm
Mr. Thomas Graham (Renfrew, West and Inverclyde) : I believe firmly that the Bill is an out-and-out gimmick. I remember coming into the House in the week in which the legislation was announced when I was dealing with a constituent whose house was being repossessed. I will tell the story later because it makes sense in what I am about to say. It is unbelievable that we should be given such a response when under this Prime Minister, in this year alone, 300 people every day have had their houses repossessed. Last year, 80,000 houses were repossessed. Since this ditherer has been Prime Minister, more than 750,000 people have lost their jobs.
I doubt whether the suspension of stamp duty will help the workers at Ravescraig who will lose their jobs and possibly their homes. It will not help the workers at Armitage Shanks, many of whom have bought their houses. The word "kick-start" is an insult to the thousands of people who have had their houses repossessed during the past decade of the Tory Government. The Government have done little or nothing--in fact, they have caused a massive problem in relation to council housing.
I look to the Government to do something for people. This Government are driving people into early graves. Not content with doing that, they have introduced the Bill while aware that they are not tackling the real problem.
Interest rates are raging. The Prime Minister has kept them at 15 per cent. when all businesses are calling for them to be reduced. Manufacturing and service industries might have been able to develop and allow workers to keep their jobs and maintain their mortgage or rent payments, but the Government have kept interest rates too high and are now introducing desperate measures to try to stop repossessions.
The hon. Member for Berwick-upon-Tweed (Mr. Beith) spoke of house sales. I have never seen such incredible hype from the Tory party and some of their friends out in the country who say that things are not too bad. They should come to my district or I can bring all the local newspapers to show them stories of people who bought their houses at £34,000 and £50,000 and are now taking the desperate measure of emigrating from Scotland for a job. Some of them had to drop their house prices by about £6,000 which gives a lucky chance for anyone with the money to buy them. I am sure that the hon. Member for Berwick-upon-Tweed would agree that there have been many such sad housing tales in Scotland.
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I have seen the same problems in London. I am looking for a house-- [Interruption.] I cannot hear the Conservative Members who are intervening from a sedentary position as I have a hearing aid--I am glad of that sometimes. Some people are trying to sell their houses for £30,000, £40,000 or £60,000 less than they paid for them. What will happen to those people? We are talking not just about repossession, but about absolute bankruptcy and the moral degradation that goes with it. The Government have placed people into such positions by kidding them and telling them the lie that everything was rosy. The former Chancellor that the Government dumped--Mr. Alan Meale (Mansfield) : Is my hon. Friend aware that 10 per cent. of home owners in Britain are at least two months in arrears with their mortgage repayments? Does that not support his argument and prove that the present position is serious?
Mr. Graham : Yes ; it is a tragedy that 10 per cent. of those with mortgages are still behind in their payments. The Government do not seem to care about that.
Mrs. Llin Golding (Newcastle-under-Lyme) : Is my hon. Friend aware that many people are now throwing the keys of their property on to the building society's desk because they can no longer cope with the mortgage? They tell the building society to keep the keys, then they walk off and disappear.
Mr. Graham : I had a phone call from a solicitor tonight who told me that a number of his clients were walking out and abandoning him. They were not attempting to tell anyone where they were going, but simply disappearing from the face of the earth. I am sure that we shall hear of more such cases after tonight.
Not long ago an ambulance man whose house was being repossessed came to see me. He was a young man who had never lost a day's work ; he had worked constantly and had a young family of three. He bought a council house in Linwood and took on a mortgage that was not too expensive to repay. I am telling it straight to the Minister, and if he wishes to know who the man is I shall gladly let him know. He came to see me when he was facing the possibility of his house being repossessed and his family being made homeless. His wages had fallen dramatically as he was no longer doing normal hours and overtime. His wife had lost her part-time job because of the prevailing economic climate. He had been conned by the Government. He had been told, "This is great. Buy your house and you will live happily ever after." He took the Government's advice and he is now in desperate straits. He cannot pay his mortgage and his house is being repossessed. He came to me and we tried to get the local council to provide him with a house. The council tried desperately to accommodate him. I also have a case involving a mother with two children at university who receive grants and loans. Her house was being repossessed and she wanted to know why the Government's provision applied only to new house purchases simply to stop repossessions. The Government could have acted on repossessions in a more meaningful way. She has a small part-time job. Her husband left her and disappeared to another country. The building society
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wants to repossess her house and she has got to go. I fought for weeks until eventually we found a council house for her. The council had to come up with the goods because the woman was to be made homeless. That was another tragic case.In those two cases the council fulfilled its obligation and housed those people. However, I have another eight cases involving people whose houses have been repossessed because they have lost their jobs, or there have been massive cuts in overtime or short-time working has been introduced. For the love of it, those people cannot provide enough money to pay their mortgages. There is no guarantee that the economy will improve so much that they will return to full-time work or that their employers will be able to increase their wages at least by the rate of inflation. Those eight people are desperate. However, thousands of people in my constituency and around Renfrew are homeless and waiting for housing. They are desperate to see council officials because the people about whom I am concerned do not have collateral or insurance to get a house in the private rented sector. They can get houses only from the local council, but the councils do not have enough houses to provide housing for all the homeless or for people such as those I have described, who, as a result of the Government's mismanagement of the economy, have had their houses repossessed and have been driven to desperate measures.
Mr. Jimmy Wray (Glasgow, Provan) : Does my hon. Friend agree that the stamp duty provision for a first-time purchaser will do nothing for people who already have mortgages? It is only a bribe to the building societies to get off their knees the people they have been robbing for the past five or six years. If the Government really intend to do something for people who have had their houses repossessed, they will have to reduce interest rates to 7 or 8 per cent.
Mr. Graham : I would go further than that. Renfrew district council has borne the brunt of the Government's mismanagement of the housing economy. Over the past few months, it has housed at least 10 people. That has possibly cost £80,000 a house, or £800,000 in all. In the face of that, the Government come up with a pittance of a few million pounds for all of Scotland to deal with homelessness. That might make one laugh, but it makes me sick to the teeth because the people about whom I am concerned are good people. They want to work and have the right to a decent job. Conservative Members can smile all the way to the bank, but those people can only smile all the way to the dole queue.
Mr. Meale : It is not only in Scotland that severe crises are occurring. At the moment, in my constituency 9,500 people are on the local authority waiting list, and 2,700 of them require special needs accommodation. Terminally ill people, severely disabled people and old people cannot get the right type of accommodation. In my area, 850 people are classified as homeless. Thousands of people throughout the east midlands are in exactly the same position. Thousands of people in the midlands have had their homes repossessed. The problem does not occur only in Scotland ; it occurs throughout the United Kingdom.
Mr. Graham : I am most grateful for that information. I am aware of the terrible tragedy. The Government have inflicted poverty on Scotland, England, Ireland and Wales.
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I am terribly ashamed to have a decent wage and to be able to afford a house when thousands of people who voted for us are living in squalid poverty because of the Government's ineffectual handling of the economy.Mr. Meale : Perhaps my hon. Friend would like to consider that an argument that is often put by Conservative Members concerns empty properties. Will he explain to the House the misinformation that Conservative Members are trying to give? If every house were filled, hundreds of thousands of people would still be homeless or in need of proper accommodation.
Mr. Graham : That is a valid point when we are talking about the Government's measures supposedly to stop repossessions and help the homeless.
In Renfrew district, because of the climate, many houses suffer from dampness and condensation. Because of lead pollution in the water, councils have a problem in trying to keep houses fit. There are many empty houses through no fault of the council. I can relate to the Minister chapter and verse of some of the problems that Scotland faces. Councils need support from the Government to tackle the weather problems that create bad housing.
There are many empty houses in our area, but the council needs money to bring them back into a rentable state. The law dictates that those houses must not only be wind and watertight but fit for habitation. At present, Renfrew district council, along with other district councils, has suffered savage cuts. Thousands of millions of pounds have been cut during the decade during which the Tory party has been in power. That has caused a deterioration in our housing stock and put tremendous pressure on local councils to provide people with a roof over their heads.
It is not long since the former Prime Minister stood in a house with a bag of groceries in her hand. Hon. Members may ask, "What has this to do with stamp duty?" I shall tell them in a minute. The former Prime Minister was proud of what that bag of groceries cost. However, she would probably only have a slice of bread in that bag today. The house that she stood in would probably be a tent or a lump of cardboard. Today, the family concerned would not be able to afford the food that was in the bag. Many people can no longer afford to live comfortably.
Tonight I spoke to my mother, who is a pensioner. I told her that this week we would have the poverty debate and that tonight we would have the stamp duty debate. My mother said, "The stamp duty debate, son?" I said, "Yes, mother." She said, "What is that about?" I said, "Well, the Prime Minister has seen his chances slipping away, and the general election will be the nail in his coffin. Therefore, today he is attempting to buy a few votes, mother, and he has come up with this stamp duty measure." "Well, Thomas, tell me what it means," she said. I said, "It means that stamp duty will be abolished for houses that cost between £30,000 and £250,000." My mother said, "Goodness God, do people buy houses that cost a quarter of a million pounds? Son, it must be the biggest family in Britain if they are to live in a house costing £250,000. It must be the Taj Mahal palace." I said, "Mother, unfortunately, there are people who have £250,000 to spend on a house--but not around here. They are down south." I then had to explain what that meant.
At the end of the day, however, when I look in the mirror, I have to ask myself what the Bill really means. It certainly does not mean a lot to the people I know whose
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homes are being repossessed. It is not the people in the high-flying jobs who are losing their jobs and houses ; it is the plumbers, the butchers, the bakers the tailors, the toilet attendants and the council workers. They are the people who are being thrown on the dole and who do not have the money to pay the mortgage. Furthermore, they are not buying houses that cost £250,000. Their houses cost £16,000, £20,000 or £30,000. They are the people who are being thrown out of their homes because of repossessions. They are the first people to lose their jobs, and they are the people who cannot afford to build up a kitty to carry them over.The Government are sick not to recognise that. Instead of trying to help some of his wealthy friends, the Prime Minister should have taken a look at something that could be targeted at the local councils to provide them with sufficient money to enable them to build homes for local people to rent. Such money would also enable the councils to make many of the empty properties fit for habitation and for renting.
Often when I speak in the House I see cynical smiles and grins on the faces of Conservative Members. That makes me angry. In other places, I might not be as civilised as I am in the House, and if I were to take the Financial Secretary into my community folk there would not be so nice to him as Tommy Graham. They would not sit back and simply accept that the Minister and his hon. Friends grin at their poverty and losses because they blame the Government for inflicting such damage on them. So I make a plea to the Financial Secretary in all sincerity : "When I am speaking with sincerity, please listen with sincerity."
I shall go further. I believe firmly that rural communities are also suffering and that the abolition of stamp duty will not help those in the towns and villages of Scotland and other areas--
Mr. Meale : Perhaps my hon. Friend will tell the Minister what good the Bill will do to those people at Ravenscraig who wish to remain in employment and who, because of the Government's strategy, have to change employment and, in the process, try to sell their homes in an area where massive numbers of houses will be put up for sale. What good will the few pounds of stamp duty that they save be to them?
Mr. Cryer : The answer is public ownership.
Mr. Graham : I am grateful for help on this matter.
The possibility of 1,200 steel workers selling their houses in the current housing market in Scotland is lamentable. There is no chance of selling even a dog's kennel in the housing market in Scotland if jobs and industries continue to be lost on the current scale. I must advise the Financial Secretary that there is no chance of the Armitage Shanks people selling their houses either--although they live in the constituency where the Under-Secretary of State for Scotland, the hon. Member for Eastwood (Mr. Stewart), has his house. As I said earlier, people trying to sell their houses have had to take dramatic cuts in price.
Mrs. Golding : My hon. Friend has mentioned Armitage Shanks. He may be aware that I represent the Potteries and the areas around Stoke-on-Trent and north Staffordshire where more than 600 jobs have been lost in a similar industry involving the manufacture of
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kitchenware and bathroomware. It is an absolute disgrace. How does the Minister think that people can manage to keep up the repayments on their homes when they do not even have a job?Mr. Graham : I am sure that my hon. Friend knows the answer that I will get. It will be the same one that everyone else gets. The Government will give people six months of dole money but after that abandon them to the desert of homelessness and unemployment. Tonight we have seen an attempt to present a gimmick as a saviour. What an absolute disgrace. What inhumane treatment of the 80,000 people whose homes were repossessed last year. What an inhumane future the Government present to the 300 people daily who have had their houses repossessed this year. The Minister should hang his head in shame.
The Government should have made sufficient funds available to local authorities. There should have been a major house-building programme to give the homeless the right to a roof over their heads. More importantly, the Government should regenerate people's right to work. Instead of the end of stamp duty, our people should see the end of the Government. They have the right to a job that brings home a decent wage and can make them proud to be able to pay their rent or buy their own home. They have the right to a job that gives them consistency and the ability to live in this country decently and pay their mortgage for 25 years, rather than not knowing whether they will have a job this week, next week, tomorrow or the day after. Minister, stand up and fight for the homeless people and those who have had their houses repossessed instead of fighting for the moneyed people.
11.35 pm
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