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Mr. Deputy Speaker (Sir Paul Dean) : Order. Does the hon. Gentleman have the agreement of the hon. Member for Cambridgeshire, South-West (Sir A. Grant) and of the Minister to speak?
Sir Robert Rhodes James : Yes, Mr. Deputy Speaker. I shall be very brief. I have been very much involved in the case for several months, and I entirely support my hon. Friend the Member for Cambridgeshire, South-West (Sir A. Grant). I know the case and the individuals. Obviously I cannot comment on the case, which is sub judice, although I have grave doubts about the way in which the matter has been handled. I resent the implication, through the closure of the post offices and the removal of the employment of my constituent and the constituent of my hon. Friend, that the presumption of innocence has been ignored. That strikes me as deeply serious and important.
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I cannot comment on the justice or otherwise of the charge levelled against Mr. Khokhar, but I can comment upon the extreme inconvenience caused to my constituents and those of my hon. Friend, and the fact that our constituents have been deprived of their livelihood while the case is pending. The hon. and learned Member for Fife, North-East (Mr. Campbell) described the action as outrageous. That is exactly the adjective that I would use.10.23 pm
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Industry and Consumer Affairs (Mr. Edward Leigh) : My hon. Friends the Members foCambridge (Sir R. Rhodes James) and for Cambridgeshire, South-West (Sir A. Grant) have raised an important issue. It would clearly not be in order for me to comment on the details of the case which they have described because of the sub judice rule. Moreover, it would not be right for the Government to interfere in what is essentially an operational matter for the Post Office. As I am sure my hon. Friends are aware, our role in Post Office matters is confined to general policy issues and to overall financial control.
I shall, of course, draw the remarks of my hon. Friends to the attention of the chairman of the Post Office. I am sure that he will notice the force with which they put their arguments, but I cannot, as a Minister, comment on the cases because of the sub judice rule. I am, however, grateful to my hon. Friend for inviting the House to consider sub-postmasters. I know that he has done so because of the very high priority that he gives to the interests of his constituents. In this case, these constituents are, of course, not only the particular sub-postmasters involved. They are also those members of the public who have been customers of the St. Johns and Hills road post offices in Cambridge which are at present closed as a result of the dismissal of the sub-postmasters.
I am aware that Sir Bryan Nicholson, the chairman of the Post Office, has written to my hon. Friend assuring him that efforts are being made to minimise the inconvenience to his constituents as a result of the closure of the two Cambridge sub-post offices. I understand that the closures are only temporary, and that the offices will be reopened as soon as possible. It is in the Post Office's interests, as well as those of the local community, to get these offices reopened quickly. Might I urge my hon. Friend to encourage any of his constituents who may be interested in running a sub-post office to make their interest known to the Post Office without delay.
The Post Office as a whole provides a service on which we all rely. I hardly need say that this service must be delivered to the very highest standards. This is true in two important respects : the public's needs must be met in full, and these needs must be met by a service whose integrity is above question. These have been critically important requirements throughout the Post Office's life both as a Government Department and over the past 20 years as a public corporation. The Post Office's efforts to meet these standards go hand in hand with its drive to transform itself into a profitable organisation run in a commercial manner.
As I have said, the Post Office and its businesses seek to maintain a high standard of service. The contract conditions for sub-postmasters are designed to ensure that those occupying these responsible positions exercise their duties with the utmost integrity. It is, of course, a matter for the Post Office to set the type of contract conditions
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under which it requires sub-postmasters to operate. The Government do not get involved in this process in any way. However, the National Federation of Sub-postmasters, which represents the interests of the sub-postmasters, negotiates contract terms with Post Office Counters Ltd.There is no time tonight to go into many details about what is included in the contract. It is a lengthy document covering every aspect of business conducted at sub-post offices. However, I should like to highlight a few points. The contract is explicit on the responsibilities of sub-postmasters to ensure that post office assets in their charge are maintained securely, and to report loss, theft or fraud immediately on discovery. There is also a statement of the circumstances in which sub-postmasters may be suspended from office. These include instances in which investigations of irregularities are suspected or are in progress.
In such situations, the Post Office investigations division would carry out a careful appraisal of the matter. If there were to be a suspension or dismissal, it would take place only as a result of such an investigation. The Post Office is very aware of the need to protect individual sub- postmasters' livelihoods wherever possible. The Post Office is, however, equally mindful of its duty to protect the interests of the customer.
I should like to take this opportunity to say something generally about the Post Office's activities in crime prevention. The general public using post offices need to be assured that the Post Office takes crime and fraud prevention very seriously--as it must, in view of the type of business it undertakes. It is continuing to invest in resources to deter fraud and crime in its various businesses. In Post Office Counters, the emphasis has been twofold. New security equipment safeguards both customers and employees in post offices where large amounts of money
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are regularly handled--typically offices in large urban centres. In parallel, staff are trained in ways of identifying and preventing crime, particularly fraud.I know that Post Office staff have on occasions displayed considerable personal courage in the course of their service to the public. I was greatly honoured to be asked to present bravery awards to a number of Post Office staff on 6 November last year. The majority of these were sub- postmaters or sub-office assistants. Without exception, all those honoured on that day demonstrated a great deal of personal courage, to which I wish to pay tribute. To sum up, I have taken the opportunity to mention the Post Office's crime prevention activities and the entirely laudable way in which it recognises the bravery of individual staff because I want to make it clear that the public can be confident of two things. First, they can expect, when they go to a post office, to have their business conducted in a safe and secure manner.
Secondly, they can be sure that the Post Office values the contribution of its sub-postmasters--and, of course, of its sub-postmistresses as well-- very highly. They are the backbone of the counters network--the figures that I quoted earlier speak for themselves. It is thanks to the sub- postmasters that a high standard of service is delivered to the public throughout the country. It is unfortunate that the situation in Cambridge described by my hon. Friend has occurred, but, as I have said, I am confident that the Post Office is handling the matter with all due propriety, and with due regard both to the circumstances of the sub- postmasters involved, and to the interests of the public who use the two sub-post offices in Cambridge which have had to be temporarily closed. I know that my hon. Friends take a different view. As I have already said, I shall certainly ensure that their views are conveyed to the chairman of the Post Office, who is, of course, in operational control.
Question put and agreed to.
Adjourned accordingly at half-past Ten o'clock.
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