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enjoy their property and it should be a considerable asset to them. It should be a source of enjoyment. It should not become something that causes distress, anxiety and worry.10.40 am
Mr. Robert G. Hughes (Harrow, West) : I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Basingstoke (Mr. Hunter) on introducing the Bill. This problem has been kicking around for a long time and people have always said, "You really think someone would do something about this." The issue has been around a lot longer than the Government, though, even given the continuous term of office enjoyed by the Conservative Government, we are not yet into our first youth. I am sure that the hon. Member for Edinburgh, South (Mr. Griffiths) would agree that we have many more consecutive years of Conservative government to come.
It is difficult to identify precisely what one should do something about. I am sure that my hon. Friend the Member for Basingstoke had some difficulty when drafting the Bill, because it is extremely complex. Even the notes on clauses that I received are complex. My hon. Friend the Member for Walthamstow (Mr. Summerson) made an interesting speech and brought to our attention a case which encapsulates one of the difficulties surrounding this issue. It is obvious that my hon. Friend's constituent has been robbed by a timeshare company, but that case is complicated and it would be difficult to deal with it, whatever the legislation.
While I was listening to my hon. Friend the Member for Walthamstow, I asked myself why on earth people would want to buy a timeshare in the first place. I accept that many people enjoy their timeshares. However, whenever I have got an invitation to take up a timeshare and whenever I have examined company stands at various exhibitions, which extol the virtues of timeshare, I have come to the conclusion that it is jolly expensive and a rotten deal. It always seems to me that those timeshares are sold by people who would make me count the fingers on my hand after I had shaken hands with them.
If one has a few thousand pounds, or several thousand pounds, to spend on one's holiday accommodation, timeshare is by far the worst option. I am a member of the council of the Caravan Club and if anyone is thinking of spending a few thousand pounds they could do no better than to buy a caravan. They could then tow it to the place that they wanted to holiday at, because, unlike timeshares, one can go from one place to another. One is not stuck with the same boring place year after year.
I am perplexed as to why anyone would want to buy a timeshare, but I accept that some people enjoy it and find the arrangements advantageous. It would be interesting to know, however, whether the majority of people who have bought such timeshares enjoy them. If people admitted their innermost thoughts, I wonder whether they would say, "Well, I am stuck with it now, so I'll grin and bear it." Such is the great English, and Scottish, stoicism.
The hon. Member for Tooting (Mr. Cox) revealed a lot about this problem when he said, "If I were running a timeshare company". One of the problems is that people such as the hon. Gentleman are most unlikely to run such a company. What makes some people go into that business? Is it a wish to provide wonderful holidays for
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people? Do they want to improve people's quality of life and to widen their experience? On balance, probably not. Are they the sort of people who run local charities or make big donations to local good causes? On balance, probably not. In general, I believe that those who run such companies--no doubt I shall receive many letters of complaint from those in the business--are from the grubbier end of the business community. I believe that they want to make a big buck and that they do not give a damn about the service they give. Every week when we discuss private Member's Bills we receive many letters that explain what a particular Bill means. We have all had many letters about the Wild Mammals (Protection) Bill, which we are to discuss next week, but then we always get a lot of letters about subjects relating to animals. Whatever the Bill, we always receive letters of serious intent from those involved in a business who believe that it could constrain their business by accident. Such people set out their objections in a logical manner. They explain why a certain Bill should not be passed or why, after further consideration, it should be amended.I do not know about other hon. Members, but I have not received a single letter from anyone in the timeshare business to explain why they believe that the Bill is wrong. Do they all agree with it, or are they keeping their heads down? I suspect that the latter is the case. As they say, "If you are in a hole, you should stop digging." I suspect that those who run the timeshare companies have decided that, with a short parliamentary Session, they hope to goodness that the Bill does not reach the statute book. I believe that they have decided on a policy of, "Let's keep our names out of it, thank you very much."
I am sure that there are legitimate operators in the business, but it is beholden on them to contact hon. Members to explain their views on the Bill. Those legitimate operators and developers presumably have some ideas that could be included in the Bill to toughen it so that it has the desired effect. With their experience I am sure that we could make the Bill much better. People who work in an industry are able to tell us about its foibles. They can help us to make that industry work better, because they know who the crooks are and where the bodies are buried.
I was fascinated by what my hon. Friend the Member for Basingstoke said about the invitation to a presentation that he received from a timeshare company. My wife and I decided to go along to a presentation one evening, but she was heavily pregnant and had the baby on the day that we were due to go to the presentation.
Mr. Nigel Griffiths (Edinburgh, South) : The hon. Gentleman got first prize.
Mr. Hughes : Yes, it was first prize--a magnificent baby. My hon. Friend the Member for Basingstoke bravely went to such a presentation, but he is not the first hon. Member to do so. As hon. Members will be aware, I had the honour to be Parliamentary Private Secretary for two years to my right hon. Friend the Member for Old Bexley and Sidcup (Mr. Heath), the former Prime Minister. My right hon. Friend received such an invitation-- the hon. Member for Edinburgh, South, who keeps up with such issues as shadow spokesman on consumer affairs, will remember this incident.
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My right hon. Friend received a letter to say that he had won a new car. He thought that that was "jolly good" and "marvellous". He went along to claim it and a startled receptionist found-- I was about to describe my right hon. Friend as curmudgeonly, but that would be a disgraceful description and I ask for that to be deleted from Hansard --a stoical former Prime Minister of this country demanding his Ford Fiesta."I have a letter saying that I have won a car. I want it. When shall I get it? I need not drive it away now, but I want to be sure that I shall get it," demanded my right hon. Friend. I do not know whether he ended up with the customary plastic imitation set of Florence Nightingale teeth.
I am no lawyer and I try not to be a barrack room lawyer, but when I read the documents I am almost convinced that a specific offer is being made. The letter says, "You have won a car" or a television set, a marvellous holiday or something else. But I do not know one person who has ever received such an article.
Perhaps the timeshare industry will provide us with the names and addresses of people who have won cars. Let us see the bills of sale for the purchase of the cars and other objects. Let us be told who got the television sets, video recorders and the rest. The whole thing is a complete scam and the timeshare industry knows it. It is about time people were made aware of what is going on.
The cooling-off period is the most important part of the Bill. Salesmen can be extremely persuasive. I can claim a bit of a record in the matter. Whenever I go to buy a car--indeed, when I buy virtually anything--the article always seems to be in short supply. "No guv, you won't get a discount on that. It's in very short supply just now," I am told. When I come to sell it I am then told, "Can't give you a lot for that. Nobody wants it now." I am a sucker when it comes to such matters. I never get a discount and I always seem to sell whatever it is for half of what it is worth.
Mrs. Teresa Gorman (Billericay) : My hon. Friend should buy a Trabant.
Mr. Hughes : I do not have one, but I have always wanted a Trabant. I am told that they are very good cars.
When people come under heavy sales pressure, many of them will give way to it. Having been browbeaten or killed with cream--soft soaped for several hours--some people will sign documents and only later reflect, "What have I done?" So a cooling-off period is vital, and I was appalled by the case that was brought to our attention by the hon. Member for Tooting. The attitude of the sharks is incredible when they simply say, "You have signed this legal agreement. You are bound by it."
Many other areas of consumer protection revolve around a cooling-off period. I understand that it is impossible for a salesperson to come to one's door, make one sign an agreement and make it stick, without there being a cooling-off period. That is true of credit agreements and financial transactions, certainly those involving the banks.
Mr. Hunter : It applies equally to insurance.
Mr. Hughes : I am obliged to my hon. Friend for drawing that to my attention. I recall reading such details when filling in forms for loans to purchase articles. That
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being so, why should it not apply to timeshares? As we know that browbeating goes on, we must ensure that there is a cooling-off period.I have made my views known about the quality of the product that the timeshare industry is offering, but I repeat what others have said about the measure not being an attack on the product. If it is good and people want it, they are entitled to buy it. I suppose that I am a Conservative rather than a socialist because I do not believe that I know better than people know what they want, and if people want to buy a timeshare product, it is a matter for them.
Mr. Thomas McAvoy (Glasgow, Rutherglen) : That was a cheap shot.
Mr. Hughes : I am sorry if the Opposition Whip thinks I was making a cheap shot. It was not intended as such. What I said is accepted by many people as being the difference between the philosophies of the two parties. I have no right to say what people should or should not buy or what they will or will not enjoy. If people want to buy this--or any other product-- let us protect those who go to examine it, some of whom get caught in the net.
Clause 11(1)(a) gives
"the end of the period of three years beginning with the date of the commission of the offence"
as the cut-off point. But it goes on :
"(b
(the end of the period of one year beginning with the date of the discovery of the offence by the prosecutor, whichever is the earlier."
That is confusing, though I appreciate that it can be looked into in Committee. One year is not necessarily a long period in this context, and I suspect that it might have been too short a time scale in the case to which my hon. Friend the Member for Walthamstow referred.
I hope that clause 12 will operate as broadly as the wording indicates, particularly in relation to cancellation, when it says ; "a notice of cancellation of an agreement is a notice (however expressed) showing that the offeree wishes unconditionally to cancel the agreement."
The important point about that provision is that the form of the notice will not affect its validity. I take that to mean that if one writes to the company in an unambiguous way stating, "I wish to cancel the agreement. I do not wish to be bound by it any longer," that will be sufficient to stop the process in its tracks.
Mr. Summerson : I may be anticipating what my hon. Friend is about to say, but if he examines clause 12(3) he will see that it says : "For the purposes of this Act, if the offeree sends a notice by post in a properly addressed and pre-paid letter the notice is to be treated as given at the time of posting."
While the object of that is to confer almost a privilege on the offeree, how is the offeree to prove that the letter was actually posted? The subsection should state that there must be proof of posting, remembering that such proof is easy to obtain.
Mr. Hughes : My hon. Friend makes a valuable point. We need to say precisely what must be done to ensure that the agreement has been cancelled, and that action must be within the reach of an ordinary person. Hon. Members become used to reading quite complicated documents, but legal agreements can be extremely complicated. I have read some of them several times before understanding what they mean. Anyone who has filled out a claim for child benefit will know how immensely complicated the
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process is. I believe that I should not be criticising that. It is a wonderful form, possibly the best form I have ever seen. That is another change that I wish I could make to the Official Report. If somebody knows what should be done and sends a letter saying, "I cancel the agreement", and there is proof of the letter having been sent, that person should be satisfied in his or her mind--more especially, everybody else should be satisfied--that any claim to the contrary would be thrown out by the courts. People must be sure that they are achieving what they intended and that the agreement exists no longer.I hope that the Bill reaches the statute book, and I am sure that it will receive the support of the Opposition. I hope that we are able to enact the legislation in this necessarily short Session of Parliament. There may be legal complications or changes that the parliamentary draftsmen and officials in the Department of Trade and Industry wish to make. However, that should not take terribly long and I hope that within a short time, the Bill will be discussed in Committee, pass to the House of Lords, return here and be placed on the statute book before the general election, whenever that may be.
Mr. Hughes : The Opposition Whip appears to know the date of the general election. He obviously has inside information. I know that the Prime Minister is friendly and willing to reveal his innermost thoughts, but I did not realise that he did so to the Opposition Whips Office.
Everyone who listens to or reads about the debate--I hope that many people will do so--should realise that any law that we pass cannot prevent a fool and his or her money from being parted. People should keep that fact in the forefront of their minds when thinking about purchasing a timeshare. Prospective purchasers are putting up a lot of their money, and other people want to deprive them of it--we have heard of such cases today.
The value of Friday debates such as this is that they are widely reported. We are discussing an important matter which is not normally reported on the front pages of newspapers or chosen as the lead item in television and radio bulletins. But it gains substantial coverage on radio and television, which is reflected in newspaper reports, when debated here. I hope that many people will hear or read about what has been said today and take note of the constituency cases that have been raised in the House. I want everyone outside the House to realise that the people involved in those cases could have been them. The people who have been mentioned in the House today are probably at least as intelligent as anybody else thinking of buying a timeshare ; if those people were fooled and conned, anyone else could be. I appeal to radio and television authorities, and newspapers to give wide coverage to what my hon. Friend the Member for Basingstoke has said and to the other constituency cases mentioned. When considering whether to take out a timeshare, people should make the worst possible assumptions about the sales people until they have conclusive evidence that it is unfair to do so. If they follow that advice, they will not be conned out of their money.
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When the Bill becomes law, as I am sure it will, many thousands of people up and down the country will owe an enormous debt of gratitude to my hon. Friend the Member for Basingstoke for choosing to bring the legislation before the House.11.2 am
Mrs. Teresa Gorman (Billericay) : I should like to endorse the spirit behind the Bill, and particularly the provision for lengthening the cooling-off period in which people are allowed to withdraw from an agreement into which they have been pressured. I would be the last hon. Member to call for additional regulations in business, but the problem is that timeshare sales people sometimes place the most appalling and undue pressure on individuals, almost trapping them into a position from which they cannot escape without signing up for something that they do not really want and cannot really afford.
It is easy for my hon. Friend the Member for Basingstoke (Mr. Hunter) and me to laugh off such offers as the one that I have in my hand. I do not know whether he was offered the same Ford Fiesta as me--mine appears to be worth £11,320. It is offered to me by a firm in Sheffield called Global Marketing, which operates out of a building called Reliance house-- an unfortunate name for a company that is obviously unreliable as it applies such ridiculous pressure. It offers £1,000, two flights to Florida, and a 14 in remote control television ; and if I reply within 72 hours, I will receive an extra gift that will not be made known to me until I turn upon the appointed day. I do not know whether my hon. Friend the Member for Basingstoke has received the same offer.
Mr. Hunter : I am envious of my hon. Friend as her Ford Fiesta is worth £2,000 more than mine.
Mrs. Gorman : Mine is obviously an automatic.
I do not think that people should be forced into taking such action. I am concerned about the matter as I have an unfortunate constituency case involving Mr. and Mrs. King who went for a holiday in Spain, expecting to enjoy themselves on a pleasant spring holiday. However, they found themselves in miserable circumstances that completely ruined their holiday.
They told me that they went shopping one day to a shopping complex at Benalmedina where they were staying. Their way was barred by young people asking them to come and see a complex where flats were for sale. They were told not only that they would be offered a free coach ride to see the apartments, but that they and their children would be given the opportunity to spend the rest of the day at a water slide park. Such places are normally expensive for a family to visit, but the Kings were told that they would be able to enter free of charge. All they had to do was to take a short ride on a coach to the complex where they could look at the nice accommodation.
The Kings did not think that there was anything wrong in taking up the offer, especially as it was on the way to where they were going and it would be an outing. They thought that it would be something for nothing-- everyone is tempted by getting something for nothing at some time in their lives. The Kings got on the coach and set off. For the rest of the day the Kings faced pressure to try to force them to sign up for one of the apartments. They were taken into a reception area and shown a wall covered with excuses made by other people as a way of getting out
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of buying one of the flats. The Kings were treated to the services of a comedian, who poked fun at the excuses and lies people had used for not wanting one of the company's wonderful flats. It was suggested that anyone who did not take up the offer must be stupid, weak and silly, and did not know what they were missing. Everyone began laughing in an embarrassed way at the alleged stupidity of all those who had previously forgone the chance of getting a wonderful apartment.The story is almost impossible to believe. The Kings were nice and ordinary people--a small family on holiday. They went to see the apartments, which they said were quite nice. They were told that all they had to do was to put up £400 and they could then have one of the apartments to use for one or two weeks of the year. The total purchase price was to be about £4,000, and all they had to do initially was to part with £400.
The Kings were made to feel that they should obviously be willing to part with that amount of money as they would have to be paupers if they were unable to do so. They were generally made to feel that if they could not afford such a price there must be something wrong with them, and they should be ashamed of themselves in front of the other people present who were out for a happy, jolly day with the intention of buying.
The Kings did not want to sign. The young man dealing with their case turned nasty. They were literally sitting in a corner of a room with a young man in front of them, poking his finger at them and demanding to know their salaries. He was saying that it was absurd to be on holiday in Spain if the Kings could not find £400 for something that would be wonderful for them for the rest of their lives. The Kings said that they felt terrorised. It is difficult for us to believe that, but the Kings were in a block of buildings in a foreign country, and did not know exactly where they were. Their two small children were unhappy and were becoming more irritable as time passed. The family were being barked at by a young fellow who was clearly on commission and did not want to let them go. The Kings described their position as that of mice in a trap. A piece of cheese was being dangled in front of their noses ; if they took the cheese they could get out, and there was a great temptation to sign up. They were unable to get away from the place as they could not leave until the coach left, which was to be when everyone who had taken the trip was prepared to return.
When they asked for refreshments they were told that they could buy them elsewhere on the complex, and they turned out to be extremely expensive. By this time they felt as if they were almost in prison. The same young man came and found them while they were having something to eat in the restaurant. He chatted to them nicely and instead of giving them the third degree he became very friendly. They relaxed, he bought the children a Coke and suggested that he walk around with them. In fact, they said that they could not get rid of him--he was stuck to them like a fly to flypaper.
Eventually they said that they had not brought their cheque books or cash, but the man asked them whether they had credit cards : "Let's look in your pockets then." The people felt so intimidated that they finally signed a piece of paper saying that they would pay £400 as a deposit on the apartment.
They were relieved to be able to get on with their holiday, but when they returned to England they immediately tried to stop their cheque. Then their troubles
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began all over again. The company started writing threatening letters ; I have one of them with me today, from a company called LSI, based apparently in Waltham Cross in Hertfordshire. The company wrote to threaten these people with legal action."to recover the moneys contractually agreed under the above purchase agreement. We therefore inform you that unless a replacement deposit in the sum of £400 is received, or satisfactory arrangements made within the next 7 days your file will be passed for action to our Legal Department."
So this simple couple who went on holiday to Spain have had their lives ruined. I have taken up their case and have written to the organisation, known as the Royal Oasis Club at La Quinta. I have also taken the trouble to unearth some other background material. For instance, I have found a report produced by Lord Denning on a similar case in which he makes it clear that it is a principle of British law that there should not be unequal bargaining power between individuals which can be used to pressurise them into making a purchase that they do not want to make. The tactics used in my constituents' case bordered on the criminal. People have been forced to part with £400 to buy something that they did not want and could not afford, under terrifying pressure. Then they were threatened with being taken to court if they could not find the money.
Lord Denning says :
"By virtue of it, the English law gives relief to one who, without independent advice, enters into a contract on terms which are very unfair or transfers property for a consideration which is grossly inadequate, when his bargaining power is grievously impaired by reason of"
the circumstances in which the bargain is made. So the law clearly offers protection to the likes of my constituents who found themselves in such unfortunate circumstances. I hope and trust that this Bill will reinforce Lord Denning's decision.
It is essential that there be adequate escape routes for such people. My constituents were faced with the prospect of paying for a solicitor to argue their case for them--that would mean paying out more money. This is wholly unacceptable to me--and I believe in the free market--and to the people in the industry who operate a fair and decent policy. I should like an assurance from the Minister that the Bill will increase the cooling-off period, as many people sign up while away from home and do not return to their homes to think about what they have done for several weeks thereafter.
When people are pressured they must be given a document that states clearly that they have more than the two weeks on the face of the Bill in which to change their minds. They should have a minimum of a month. And unless such conditions are met the Bill must penalise these unscrupulous people with a hefty fine. I hope that the Minister can thus reassure me so that I in turn can reassure my constituents that the Government are well aware of the plight of people in these circumstances and will take action to prevent it from recurring in future.
11.14 am
Mr. Michael J. Martin (Glasgow, Springburn) : The hon. Member for Billericay (Mrs. Gorman) seems to be mellowing with her service in the House. I cannot believe that this is the hon. Lady who advised people to deal with ticket touts and pay them £70 for a Wimbledon ticket if
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that was the going rate. If legislation is introduced to provide for a cooling-off period for deals with tickets touts, I wonder whether she will support it.Coming as I do from an engineering background, I know the importance of good salesmanship. Salesmen feel, however, that this country does not take them seriously. One reason for that is that unscrupulous salesmen bring the profession into disrepute. In America salesmen are highly regarded, and if we have to sell our products abroad we certainly need professional sales people with high ethics. Unfortunately, the people involved in timeshare often do not have high ethics.
The vast majority of people in this country are brought up to feel that it would be impolite to suggest that the person selling them something is involved in sharp practices, so bad salesmen play on people's good upbringing and high standards. They rely on the fact that potential buyers are polite and decent people.
I hope that as a result of our debate people will be more prepared to scratch the surface and find out what type of salesman is selling them timeshare or anything else. I congratulate the hon. Member for Basingstoke (Mr. Hunter) and I am pleased that the legislation will tighten up on sharp practice.
I hope that one day we will legislate to control selling over the telephone. British Telecom is turning a blind eye to how our telephones are being used. Among other things, they are being used in the sale of timeshares. I received a call telling me to come along and pick up my prize of a gold watch, provided that my salary reached a certain level. When I turned up to pick up my prize it turned out that the company was using rented office accommodation in Glasgow--it did not even have a permanent address. And I am sure that I would not have been given a gold watch, just a lot of pressure.
British Telecom should realise that some of these high-pressure telephone salesmen contact homes in which there has been a bereavement or some other serious problem. They ring up such people and tell them that they have won a prize, or a chance of a holiday in Spain or, if they will only come and see a timeshare, they will be introduced to a lovely range of fitted kitchens. I have complained to British Telecom, but this activity represents business for it, so it does not want to act.
A constituent of mine was able to solve the problem of high-pressure salesmanship on the phone. She received a call to say that a salesman wanted to come and see her about a holiday in Spain. It was obviously to do with a timeshare. She said, "Certainly, come along at seven in the morning." Sure enough, the salesman turned up at seven in the morning and she said, "I'm glad you've called, because I want to tell you and your company that I want nothing to do with your high-pressure salesmanship." She got a mouthful of abuse, but she has never had a telephone call from that company again. Timeshare organisations get names and addresses from computer disks that are sold by all sorts of companies. For example, when one is asked for a name and address for a survey in the street, that information sometimes goes on to disk and can be sold. That is particularly so when the surveys ask about salary scales. These sales people do not want to wast their time with someone who has been
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unemployed for a long time or is on social security. They want to target those with an income that can cope with timeshare. Some companies deal entirely with selling names and addresses. There is another disturbing feature. A democratic society must have a voters roll and I understand that there is a sideline, although not a big one, for local authorities that sell information to commercial organisations from the voters roll. I hope that a local authority approached by such a timeshare organisation--obviously it will look for information on a ward in the stockbroker belt or a similarly affluent area- -would reject such an approach. It is a pity that when information goes on to computer disks for genuine reasons, people run the risk of their names and addresses being handed over to these unscrupulous characters.I congratulate the hon. Member for Basingstoke on doing something to prevent these malpractices, about which every hon. Gentleman has been concerned.
11.22 am
Mr. Bill Walker (Tayside, North) : You will understand, Mr. Deputy Speaker, that I am not normally here on a Friday. Given the political scene in Scotland, which can only be described as interesting, I should rather be there. However, there is a Scottish Bill on the Order Paper, and I have remained for the debate on that.
The practices used in timeshare selling have caused considerable concern and I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Basingstoke (Mr. Hunter) on introducing the Bill, because it is essential that the matter be dealt with. He will understand what I mean when I say that I feel that I have been down this road before. This is not the first attempt to deal with what has become an ever-increasing annoyance to many people. For some, it is more than an annoyance. They can and have been conned into imagining that if they visit a timeshare office, they will be given gifts and perhaps even end up wealthy because there is a magic pot of gold that will produce rewards for everyone just because the timeshare scheme exists. I have been on the receiving end of this sort of literature. Like the hon. Member for Glasgow, Springburn (Mr. Martin), I find that, as my name has appeared on lists showing that I am a Member of Parliament, people have thought that I have lots of cash to throw around. Such people have misunderstood the hon. Gentleman and me. We have never been noted for the fact that we want to throw around our cash unnecessarily or ostentatiously. He and I must have viewed these invitations with cynicism and scepticism. When these invitations first started arriving, my wife thought that there was something marvellous about them. One only had to go and see something and one was bound to win a Metro. I said, "Hold on a minute, the world is not full of people wanting to give away Metros. What's the snag?" We examined the invitations in some detail and discovered that things were not quite as they were presented. This is the kind of rapid con by which so many people have been fooled.
As my hon. Friend the Member for Billericay (Mrs. Gorman) said, under the law of this country, we expect equality between those selling and purchasing. Before coming to this place, I ran department stores and I know something about vending. One was always conscious that one had to present and advertise one's goods in a manner that would not mislead. One had to ensure that the sales
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staff did not state more than they could deliver or present something in a manner that suggested that one was less than honourable and honest in the way that one conducted one's business. In the modern and relatively affluent society in which we live, one should not have to indulge in these practices to make a living. If someone is selling the right goods at the right price in the right place, there will be a market for them because people will buy what they want. However, some are not honest or honourable and the way that they conduct their business is highly suspect. People who do not have experience of looking at the fine print and understanding what is involved may find themselves talked into believing that here is a magic formula that will give them, free, a lovely place in the sun and a gift, or that one pays for this place with very small sums over a very long period. The reality is very different.The Bill extends to Scotland because it is a United Kingdom measure. Scots law is different from that south of the border and one of the advantages that we enjoy is that contracts must be approved in a manner that produces corroboration. That is an important basic fundamental of Scots law. Despite the various sale of goods Acts and all the other legislative measures, there is a weakness in the system that must be looked at in detail. However, I understand the difficulties in phrasing the words in any Bill that attempts to deal effectively with this problem. I seem to have spent a lifetime serving on Committees examining Scottish Law Reform (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bills. The House will be aware that my private Member's Bill, which reforms Scots law, has just completed its stages in this House and gone to the other place.
Often, once one gets an Act on to the statute book, particularly when it deals with these tricky matters, one has to go back to it afterwards. The legislation, as submitted, does not always deal with the problem that one set out to deal with in the first instance. I am not a lawyer ; I am not competent to comment on the wording of the clauses. I recognise, however, that there are difficulties and I shall not be at all surprised if the Minister, who is a lawyer, tells us that certain aspects of the clauses are technically defective. That seems to be the lot of hon. Members who introduce similar legislation. Nevertheless, I think that my hon. Friend will accept that it is because of public concern about the activities of these unscrupulous people that we are faced with this problem.
It is not just a question of pressure selling. People understand high- powered pressure selling. I recollect my first experience of it when, as a young Royal Air Force officer, a chap came to my door who was convinced that he could sell the "Encyclopaedia Britannica" to me. He thought that every young RAF officer would want to understand everything in the "Encyclopaedia Britannica" because one day he hoped to become an air chief marshal. There were two things wrong with his reasoning. First, I had no aspirations to become an air chief marshal. All that I ever wanted to do was to fly. When an RAF officer achieves a certain rank he is not allowed to do that, so I had no intention of going beyond the point where I could fly.
The salesman's second mistake was that, in any case, I could not possibly pay for the "Encyclopaedia Britannica" on the very poor wages that I received at that time. I should point out that that was during the period of a Labour Government. [Interruption.] I speak with
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experience, Mr. Deputy Speaker. I have vivid memories of how badly we were paid. I could not have afforded the monthly payments out of my meagre salary.Once the salesman had got his foot in the door, however, he tried to convince me and my wife that what we really wanted was the beautiful bookcase that went with the books. That is partly what this is all about : the alleged, hidden unreal benefits that one is supposed to enjoy if one invests in such activities. In the real world, however, one gets what one pays for. If anything that seems to be a good bargain is on offer, one might well ask why queues have not formed all the way round the building. We have seen evidence at sales of things being given away. People often camp out in front of department stores because the bargains that are on offer to the first purchasers are real bargains. The objective is to get people into the store so that the sale is a success. The atmosphere of a sale makes people purchase goods.
When people dream up these great timeshare offers, I wonder whether they have done a service to the rest of the service sector. They expose the fraudulence of their activities. The more we talk about it and the more we look at it the more the public--I have great confidence in the public--will realise that they cannot get such bargains. That is one of the great advantages of talking about timeshare in the House. The Bill provides us with the opportunity to put on record the weaknesses of the offers made by those who offer timeshares.
What is so sad about Friday debates is that they are seldom reported. The media are much more interested in our private lives than in what happens to the victims of timeshare organisations. The mind boggles at what the media might dream up if an hon. Member were thinking of going off to a timeshare somewhere with what my hon. and learned Friend the Member for Perth and Kinross (Sir N. Fairbairn) described as the birds that hang around Westminster. Only he could describe the other sex in that way. I shall leave my hon. and learned Friend to explain what he meant by that, because I am not quite sure. As far as I am aware, timeshare operators have not yet got round to suggesting that if we buy a timeshare it will give us the Valhalla that we can nip off to with the birds that hang around Westminster. My hon. Friend the Member for Basingstoke and his supporters have done the House a service in introducing a Bill to deal with this dreadful practice. I hope that the publicity that is generated by debates of this kind will alert people to the dangers and that they will not fall victim to these ghastly practices.
11.35 am
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Trade and Consumer Affairs (Mr. Edward Leigh) : I am very grateful to my hon. Friend thMember for Basingstoke (Mr. Hunter) for introducing the Bill. I am also very grateful to all those who have spoken in the debate : my hon. Friend the Member for Walthamstow (Mr. Summerson), my hon. and learned Friend the Member for Blackpool, North (Mr. Miscampbell), the hon. Member for Tooting (Mr. Cox), my hon. Friends the Members for Harrow, West (Mr. Hughes) and for Billericay (Mrs. Gorman), the hon. Member for Glasgow, Springburn (Mr. Martin) and my hon. Friend the Member for Tayside, North (Mr. Walker). They all made the point that I intend to make both at the beginning of my remarks and at the
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end : that anyone who is contemplating a timeshare holiday must think very carefully indeed before they go to a presentation. The Department of Trade and Industry has issued more than 1 million copies of "Your Place in the Sun." Later I shall refer to a few examples in the report of the Office of Fair Trading.As has already been said, it is important to use the opportunity that this debate provides to publicise the high pressure sales techniques at these presentations. I hope that the debate will result in the Bill being given a Second Reading and that it will eventually become an Act of Parliament. The debate will also do a lot of good, in that it can bring home to people the importance of looking with extreme care at direct mail shots. I advise people to beware of going to these presentations.
The debate has thrown some interesting light on one of the shadier corners of United Kingdom commercial practice. It may help the House if I outline the Government's position on the Bill and say a little about the wider background to it. My hon. Friend the Member for Basingstoke graphically described the mischief that his Bill is intended to correct. I congratulate him on the clear way in which he has described the contents of the Bill which, despite its simplicity of purpose, is not without its complexities. They relate particularly to the importance of dealing with consumer credit. Many timeshare transactions are based on consumer credit.
I do not think that there is anything that I can usefully add to what my hon. Friend has said today, because he went through all the clauses. However, a number of hon. Members have raised wider issues in the context of the timeshare industry. Before I turn to the specific points that have been raised, I should like to deal with the wider context in order to set the scene.
Timeshare is a relatively recent phenomenon. The first timeshare resort in the United Kingdom was opened as recently as 1976, yet by 1990 there were more than 500,000 timeshare owners in Europe, of whom approximately two fifths were British. The European total is expected to have risen to one and a half million by the end of the century. Whatever problems there may be with timeshare, it seems clear that any industry that can expand at this rate is responding to a genuine consumer need. Indeed, timeshare has many thousands of satisfied customers all over the world. It is significant that of the letters written to the Director General of Fair Trading in response to his request for views for and against timeshare, about two thirds were broadly favourable.
But some customers are not satisfied and a few feel that they have been deceived and defrauded. The Department of Trade and Industry receives more complaints about timeshare than about any other industry. I know that one must be wary of government by reference to the size of ministerial post bags, but in this instance we were persuaded that a prima facie case for action had been made. In July 1989, my predecessor, my hon. Friend the Member for Mid-Worcestershire (Mr. Forth), accordingly asked the Director General of Fair Trading to carry out a review of timeshare problems and agreed on the following terms of reference : to consider complaints made by United Kingdom consumers about marketing and other problems relating to timeshare and to report on significant problems
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