House of Commons Hansard Debates for 27 Feb 1992

Mr. David Shaw (Dover) : When my right hon. Friend was doing his most excellent research for his wonderful statement, which will be warmly welcomed by those with personal pensions, did he look at the Labour party policy document that proposes new controls on the way in which private pension funds and other moneys are invested? Does my right hon. Friend agree that such proposals would reduce investment returns for those with private pensions and that, in consequence, under a Labour Government, private pensioners would be very much worse off?

Mr. Newton : It must inescapably follow that the policy that my hon. Friend describes would have that effect. Of course, it would make very little difference to personal pensioners, because the Opposition would stop them having their personal pensions.

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Points of Order

4.51 pm

Mr. Alex Salmond (Banff and Buchan) : On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. As you will remember, at business questions the hon. Member for Orkney and Shetland (Mr. Wallace) and I asked the Leader of the House whether he could give us any information on a supposed decommissioning scheme for the fishing industry. The Leader of the House replied that he could give us no such information. The entire Scottish press corps believes that such a statement will be made at 5 o'clock in Scotland by the relevant Minister. Will Government Front Bench Members tell us what is going on? Is there to be a statement or is there not to be a statement? In this pre- election panic, why are the Government so anxious to avoid scrutiny by hon. Members in this Chamber?

Mr. James Wallace (Orkney and Shetland) : Further to that point of order, Mr. Speaker. You will recall that, in reply to me, the Leader of the House suggested that a general conservation package was still being considered. If it is true that a statement is to be made in the next 10 to 15 minutes, it is very unlikely that such a package was still being considered as recently as an hour ago. I have a high regard for the Leader of the House and I am sure that he would not wish to mislead the House by suggesting that the Government are at sixes and sevens. At the very least, I know that you, Mr. Speaker, deprecate the idea of making statements to the press when, first and foremost, they should be made in this place.

Mr. Speaker : An opportunity may arise tomorrow if such a statement is made in Scotland.

Mr. Bob Cryer (Bradford, South) : On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. You may recall that during business questions I raised the issue of the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food placing 650 letters on the Board. They were all stamped. Normally, hon. Members are limited to six letters on the Board every day. On what basis can the Minister use the Board in that way? It seems quite wrong. Any statement by the Minister can be made at the Dispatch Box. It should not be necessary for Ministers to abuse the facilities of the House in that way. In particular, when we recently considered the Wild Mammals (Protection) Bill, which the Minister voted against, he could have made a statement without filling the Board with material for hon. Members.

The matter is important because, in the period before the election, if every Minister takes the opportunity to spend taxpayers' money in that way, we shall be inundated. I assume that the Minister is using his power to abuse his position. Do the rules apply to the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food in the same way as they apply to other hon. Members, or are Ministers entitled to commit such abuse?

Mr. Speaker : I understand that, following an application by the Ministry of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food early this morning stating that letters were required to be delivered urgently today to each Member of the House, they were accepted for handling by the Members' letter board. I am informed that the correct

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postage was paid on all those letters, should they need to be forwarded to Members. I have not had an opportunity of studying the letter, but I think this procedure might be examined by the Administration Committee in future.

Mr. Cryer : I am grateful for your response, Mr. Speaker, but I assure you that I have examined the letter--presumably you also received one--and there is absolutely nothing of any urgency about it. That suggests that Officers of the House have been misled by the Department of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food claiming that urgency was the key matter in terms of using the internal facilities of the House.

Mr. Derek Enright (Hemsworth) : I have a copy here.

Mr. Speaker : I have not had a chance to read it yet. I can dispose of the matter by saying that I will certainly look into it.

Mr. Anthony Nelson (Chichester) : Further to that point of order, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker : I do not think I need to hear it. I shall look into the matter now.

Mr. Nelson : On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. As you are looking into the matter--I am grateful for that assurance--the issue on which many hon. Members receive the most correspondence is animal welfare. That excellent and informative letter was very gratefully received by me and many colleagues. It was excellent that the Minister sent it to us.

Mr. Stuart Bell (Middlesbrough) : Further to that point of order, Mr. Speaker. I fully accept your assurance. I received that letter early today and I went immediately to the Serjeant at Arms to complain. It is a very important and sensitive matter. Animal welfare is an important subject, but the letter was not urgent. It will simply encumber hon. Members' pockets for the rest of the day. I am sure that most hon. Members will never read it. It might be worth taking that point into account during your consideration.

Mr. Speaker : Hon. Members sometimes complain that they have not received information before they depart for their constituencies at a weekend, so the matter needs to be balanced. I have no idea how urgent the letter was.

Mr. Dennis Skinner (Bolsover) : Let us face it, Mr. Speaker--you have not seen the letter, but it was sent to 650 Members of Parliament using first class stamps. That equals £117. One hundred and seventeen quid has been spent by the Ministry--not by the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food. The suggestion was that the Minister paid for it out of his own pocket, but he did not. It has come out of the taxpayer's pocket. The letter states that the Government have great concern about animal welfare, but they did not think about that when we debated the Bill to get rid of fox hunting. The Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food talks about furry animals : he was stuffing a dead furry animal down his son's throat on the telly.

Mr. Speaker : I think that we had better move on.

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Welsh Affairs

Motion made, and Question proposed, That this House do now adjourn.-- [Mr. Sackville.]

Mr. Speaker : I should announce to the House that, in view of the late start of the debate and the number of right hon. and hon. Members who wish to participate, I propose to put a precautionary limit of 10 minutes on speeches between 7 pm and 9 pm. If hon. Members who are called before that time are brief, it may be possible, in the general interests of the House, to relax that limit. 4.58 pm

The Secretary of State for Wales (Mr. David Hunt) : This annual St. David's day debate on Welsh affairs is traditionally a time for reviewing the most important events that have happened in Wales over the past year, and also a time for looking forward and assessing prospects for the future. Before I refer to developments in Wales over the past year, I pause to express the regret that I am sure that we all feel that, since the last time we met on this occasion, my dear friend the late hon. Member for Monmouth, Sir John Stradling Thomas, is no longer with us, and the right hon. Member for Blaenau Gwent (Mr. Foot), the hon. Member for Meirionnydd Nant Conwy (Dr. Thomas), and my hon. Friends the Members for Clwyd, North- West (Sir A. Meyer) and for Delyn (Mr. Raffan) are retiring at the general election. They have all served the House with great distinction and we shall be very sad to lose them.

It is impossible in the time available for me to deal with everything that has happened in Wales in the past year. However, I should like to touch on several subjects. Some topics, such as transport, will be dealt with by my right hon. Friend the Minister of State later in the debate if he catches your eye, Mr. Deputy Speaker. Other subjects have been extensively debated in either the Welsh Grand Committee or the Welsh Affairs Select Committee. Most recently, we had an excellent debate on education a fortnight ago in the Welsh Grand Committee.

Mr. Dafydd Wigley (Caernarfon) : We are not certain whether there will be any further opportunity to discuss Welsh affairs between now and the election, which may well be called in a couple of weeks, but it has been suggested that before then there could be another meeting of the Welsh Grand Committee to discuss important questions about the future structures of government in Wales. Are we likely to have that opportunity? Clearly, if we are not, those matters will have to be included in this debate. Some guidance on that would be helpful.

Mr. Hunt : I heard the hon. Gentleman raise that matter with my right hon. Friend the Lord President of the Council a few moments ago. I hope that we shall meet to debate devolution in the Welsh Grand Committee, and have that meeting in Wales, before the next general election. However, I readily accept that it must be done by agreement. I understand that discussions are continuing through the usual channels, and I hope that they can come to an early conclusion.

Mr. Keith Raffan (Delyn) : Of course, it is two weeks since my right hon. Friend raised this matter in the Welsh Grand Committee. He said that discussions were continuing through the usual channels. Does that mean that one of the Opposition parties is creating an

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obstruction to holding the debate and delaying it? I am sure that my right hon. Friend is being diplomatic, but will he confirm that that may be so?

Mr. Hunt : To be termed diplomatic by my hon. Friend is a compliment indeed. I used to be a usual channel, so I know that I must not trespass into that area, except to say that I hope that discussions will come to a successful conclusion as soon as possible.

The performance of the United Kingdom economy has been the background to events in Wales in the past year. I freely admit that things have been difficult. The world economy has been in recession, as has the United Kingdom economy. Wales could not possibly be isolated from those outside influences. However, our confidence in the underlying strength of the Welsh economy has been fully justified. The gap between Welsh and United Kingdom unemployment rates has continued to narrow in the past year. The latest available figures show that, for the first time in many years, average wages increased faster in Wales than in the rest of the United Kingdom. Most encouraging of all, companies still want very much to invest in Wales. The year 1991 was particularly successful for inward investment. The 183 projects recorded promised more than 17,000 new or safeguarded jobs and more than £860 million of investment.

Mr. Roy Hughes (Newport, East) : Will the Secretary of State confirm that, as from 26 April, charges on the Severn bridge will be collected only from westbound traffic? Will he also confirm that tolls for motor cars will increase to £2.80, for minibuses to £5.60 and for lorries to £8.40? Does he appreciate the damage that that is likely to do to employment and investment prospects, let alone the Welsh tourist trade? Will the Secretary of State take a particular interest in my constituents in Caldicot, Magor, Rogiet and Undy, who took the advice of the right hon. Member for Chingford (Mr. Tebbit) and got on their bikes to seek employment on the other side of the estuary? All told, does the Secretary of State agree that the charges are a severe, major--with a capital M--blow to the Welsh economy?

Mr. Hunt : A few moments ago, Mr. Speaker asked all hon. Members to keep their speeches short. I said that my right hon. Friend the Minister of State would deal with transport if he managed to catch your eye, Mr. Deputy Speaker, but I am happy to respond to the hon. Gentleman. The Labour party has never opposed tolls. If I recall, it imposed them. All the issues have been debated at great length. The good news for Wales is that we are to have a second Severn crossing and that will be complete in 1995. That is very good news. Many major international companies have demon-strated and underlined their confidence in the future of Wales by establishing manufacturing operations in our country. It is even more encouraging that, once established, they stay and expand their operations. For example, the announcement by Sony last May of its expansion at Bridgend was one of the major industrial landmarks of the year. The initial phase alone will create 1,400 new jobs, with potential to generate many more. That is good news for Mid-Glamorgan and for Wales.

Before the hon. Member for Newport, East (Mr. Hughes) interrupted me, I was about to say that I wanted to take this opportunity to thank everyone who played a part in securing that record inward investment into Wales. Of course, it is not just a matter of the Government. In

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Wales we have a positive partnership in which local and central Government, the public and private sector and the many agencies come together to stress the benefits of investing in Wales. They have as their trump card the quality of the work force in Wales. I praise everyone who has taken a great deal of time and trouble to enable us to win that record level of investment.

What is particularly heartening about the projects which have come to Wales, and the indigenous companies that have expanded their operations, is the diverse nature of the operations involved. They represent the future for Wales and the growing divergence of the economy.

Dr. Kim Howells (Pontypridd) : Is the Secretary of State aware that there are grave worries in Wales that we do not possess a statistical database on our strengths and weaknesses to enable us to attract the next generation of investment from abroad into Wales? That was highlighted in the report by the Comptroller and Auditor General which was discussed recently by the Public Accounts Committee. It said that we did not have a sufficiently rigorous database to tell us the real effect of the valleys programme and other programmes. Will the Secretary of State do something about that and improve it?

Mr. Hunt : Yes, I should like to improve it. We are extremely rigorous in the payment of regional selective assistance, which is paid only in relation to the numbers of jobs created. However, it is important to improve the database. I know that I could say that one need only go down the M4 and A55 to see the new factories and new opportunities, but we need to do more than that. We need to identify the strengths and weaknesses. My predecessor did that with the financial services initiative and a range of other initiatives. I seek to do the same in other areas. But the hon. Gentleman is right : we would benefit greatly from improving the statistical base. I must continually balance the cost of obtaining the information against the benefit. However, I believe that it is right to improve the position.

Mr. Alex Carlile (Montgomery) : The Secretary of State said something which we in mid-Wales are a little tired of hearing. He mentioned the M4 and the A55. Of course we welcome what has happened along those belts. However, there is an awful lot of Wales in between the two. In the rest of his speech, will he bear it in mind that unemployment in Powys has increased by 30 per cent. in the past year? We feel that, despite the great efforts of the Development Board for Rural Wales, the area is somewhat neglected by the Welsh Office.

Mr. Hunt : That is interesting. I was about to come to that in my speech, but I will deal with it now.

Mr. Ted Rowlands (Merthyr Tydfil and Rhymney) : Will the Secretary of State give way?

Mr. Hunt : Wait a moment. I ought to reply to the hon. and learned Member for Montgomery (Mr. Carlile).

I spent some time at Welshpool just a few days ago. I went to see the site of the new Fisher-Gauge factory. The hon. and learned Gentleman will know that I went to see Bill Fisher in Peterborough in the state of Ontario in Canada. I applaud him for the fact that he decided to come to mid-Wales even though he had many other locations to consider, including some in our competitor countries in the

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EC. I was particularly pleased at the way in which everyone came together to secure that inward investment. Just as I was delighted by the help of the hon. Member for Caernarfon (Mr. Wigley) over inward investment by the Diagnostic Products Corporation of Los Angeles at Llanberis, I am equally delighted by Fisher-Gauge.

We intend to do our utmost to bring much-needed investment to all of Wales. When I was first appointed Secretary of State, I said that I wanted prosperity to spread to all parts of Wales. That is still my determination. I hope that Welsh prosperity will never again be threatened by over- reliance on a few industries.

Mr. Rowlands : Before he heads for mid-Wales, will the right hon. Gentleman pause at Merthyr for a moment? I wish to draw his attention to the depressing and sad fact that next month could be celebrated by a two- week lay-off at Hoover. That experience will be shared by workers at Hotpoint and the people in the Minister of State's constituency. After 10 years of technological investment, changes in work practices, alterations and 4,000 job losses--that is equivalent to losing a steelworks--people are still having to face a two-week lay-off. Is that the economic miracle that we were expecting?

Mr. Hunt : I know that the hon. Gentleman may feel it necessary to stress the bad side, but--[ Hon. Members :-- "Come on--answer."]-- There are some positive sides to Merthyr. There has been an announcement that yet another Japanese company, and the first company to come in from Singapore, will fill those two factories. He and I were present at the launch of the east Merthyr reclamation scheme. There is a great deal of activity.

I cannot insulate Wales--nor can my ministerial colleagues, the Welsh Office or anyone else in Wales against the effects of the recession outside, which has hit the white goods sector in particular. I do not think that hon. Members would expect anything else. Hotpoint, Hoover and other such companies are feeling the effects of the downturn in consumer spending, and I hope that that is a short-term problem.

Why are people still so anxious to invest in Wales? There are a number of reasons. One is the quality of the work force, which has the skills required by investing companies. That brings me to the first major development of the year that I wish to mention. Last September, the Prime Minister announced that responsibility for training would transfer to the Welsh Office from the Department of Employment. That transfer will take effect from 1 April.

From then on, the Welsh Office will be a training, education and enterprise Department. That will present us with an unprecedented opportunity to develop our people's potential. We also now have a full network of training and enterprise councils, drawing on the energy of local employers to develop the skill base. We issued strategic guidance to our TECs in November, which set a challenging agenda and I hope emphasised our determination to ensure that everyone is working in harness to develop the skills and enterprise of our people.

The TECs are prime examples of our policy of allowing those most closely involved with an activity to share responsibility for directing and undertaking it. I have sought to adopt that approach in other areas of community activity. I am especially pleased with the progress being made under the special initiative for the programme for the valleys, to encourage community

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involvement in social and economic regeneration. Those include the community revival strategies, in which five communities are benefiting from projects which encourage the environmental, social and economic regeneration of those communities.

Mr. Peter Hain (Neath) : Could the Minister confirm that the Prime Minister has turned him over on his proposal for an economic forum for Wales, as suggested in his reorganisation of local government pamphlet, and that Downing street is blocking his proposal for economic regeneration work?

Mr. Hunt : I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for giving me a chance to repudiate a totally incorrect story. The proposal, which was put forward by the Council of Welsh Districts, is still under consideration ; I have not yet reached a conclusion on it. I recognise that, in recent weeks, there has been increasing interest in the issue of a Welsh assembly. The Conservative party certainly has everything to gain by widening the debate on devolution. I do not regard the forum as part of that debate. Some of the most telling and the best arguments against a Cardiff-based Welsh assembly were made in the 1970s by the right hon. Member for Islwyn (Mr. Kinnock), the Leader of the Opposition. Perhaps he has not changed his views on the subject of an assembly, which would go some way towards explaining some of the mess and muddle on the part of the Welsh Labour party, not only about whether they would impose an assembly on Wales but, if they did, about what it would be able to do.

I shall read one page. The Leader of the Opposition said that a Welsh assembly would not

"provide a factory, a machine or job, build a school, train a doctor or put a pound on pensions."

We have calculated that a Welsh assembly would cost £1 million per week. The right hon. Gentleman also said :

"Who is prepared to give up £1 million to be bossed about by an institution in Cardiff?"

He also said :

"A new slab of Government in the form of a Welsh assembly would turn into yet another costly millstone around the necks of the people of Wales."

I agree with those comments, and I agree even more with the right hon. Gentleman's comment that the Welsh assembly would take-- [Interruption.] I know that Opposition Members do not like hearing the words of their leader, but I am determined to shove those words into the debate in every possible way.

The right hon. Gentleman said :

"that Assembly would take power and money from local authorities and the communities they serve"--

[Interruption.]

Several Hon. Members rose --

Mr. Deputy Speaker (Mr. Harold Walker) : Order. We do not conduct our affairs in this way. We debate by means of speech rather than bellowing across the Floor of the House.

Mr. Hunt : I agree with every one of the words that I am quoting from the right hon. Member for Islwyn, who continued :

"it would be even more centralised than the present system." We have a right to know whether he has changed his view.

Mr. Raffan : While historical quotations are interesting, and the Leader of the Opposition will shortly be history,

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my right hon. Friend has given an estimate of the cost of an assembly. Can he also give the House the estimated savings of going to unitary authorities? Does he not agree that the situation has changed totally since the last referendum? The Government must tackle this issue in the current context of the need for a Government of Wales and the need for a strategic authority when we move to unitary authorities.

Mr. Hunt : I shall come to unitary authorities in a moment.

Mr. Geraint Howells (Ceredigion and Pembroke, North) : I have listened with interest to the Secretary of State. He started off well when he mentioned devolution. Will he confirm that he has no intention of giving the people of Wales an assembly?

Mr. Hunt : I passed to the hon. Gentleman my only copy of "The Liberal Democrat Pocket Guide to Reform of Government". Could he possibly return that to me at some stage? However, I have a photocopy of it. [Hon. Members :-- "The Under-Secretary of State has a copy."] I am talking about my copy.

A few days ago, the hon. Member for Ceredigion and Pembroke, North (Mr. Howells) said that I was guilty of misleading the House because I said that the Liberal Democrats would make the post of Secretary of State for Wales redundant, once they had established the Welsh assembly. Page 8 of the pocket guide states :

"We would create a Welsh senate for home rule for Wales. The role of Secretary of State for Wales would become redundant."

That is what I told the House, but I was accused of misleading it. I often find the policies of the Liberal Democrats unintelligible, but I think that the hon. Gentleman should understand them. Mr. Geraint Howells rose --

Mr. Donald Anderson (Swansea, East) rose --

Mr. Hunt : I shall give way.

Mr. Anderson rose --

Mr. Deputy Speaker : Order. The Secretary of State should make it clear to whom he is giving way.

Mr. Howells : Before the Secretary of State gets too excited, we are talking about the principle of devolving power and not the detail. Will he confirm, once again, that he is in favour of devolving power to the people of Wales? As I said on a television programme last night, it is a great pity that the Secretary of State plays about with a little piece of paper.

Mr. Hunt : It is not just any piece of paper ; it is Liberal Democrat policy. If the hon. Gentleman does not know about that piece of paper, it is entitled "The Liberal Democrat Pocket Guide to Reform of Government". I understand that the leader of the Welsh Liberal party told the Western Mail , when told of the document, "Oh dear, I had better check this with a party official." I would hope that members of the Liberal Democrats would at least be in some control of the situation.

Mr. Anderson : The Secretary of State is enjoying himself by reading out comments by the Leader of the Opposition 18 years ago. We could enjoy ourselves by repeating what the Secretary of State said about the poll

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tax two years ago. Would it not be better if he were to consider the issues and tried to elevate the debate rather than to indulge in the diversionary tactic of referring to a meeting in Cardiff? Will he say yea or nay to whether, under any circumstances, he will grant an assembly to Wales?

Mr. Hunt : I have made my position clear. The hon. Gentleman may have changed his mind, but has the Leader of the Opposition? We have not yet heard whether he has, and that the right hon. Gentleman owes it to the people of Wales to explain his views on a Welsh assembly. Does the Leader of the Opposition think that a referendum is still necessary or that an assembly should be established ? Does he think, as he has said before, that such an assembly would create divisions in Wales, and not heal them ? Does the Leader of the Opposition still believe that the £50 million that would be spent on the assembly, if the Labour party ever came into government, would be better spent on schools and hospitals ? The Leader of the Opposition has to justify his series of U-bends and S-turns to the people of Wales. He and the Labour party have been running away from this issue for too long. The hon. Member for Swansea, East (Mr. Anderson) referred to the diversionary tactic of the Welsh Grand Committee. That is an important Committee of this House, and I want it to meet in Wales and to debate the issue of devolution. If that is not possible, I make it absolutely clear today that I want the Leader of the Opposition to participate with me in a live, televised debate on that subject in the next few weeks. The hon. Member for Caernarfon would agree to participate, and I also know that the hon. Member for Ceredigion and Pembroke, North would. It is time that the Leader of the Opposition set the record straight and stopped standing on his head. The people of Wales have a right to know.

I want to marshal my arguments about a Welsh assembly, but I wonder whether the Leader of the Opposition has any arguments left to marshal.

Mr. Win Griffiths (Bridgend) : On the subject of the Welsh Grand Committee meeting outside the House, the Secretary of State will know that, if that is to happen, we need a debate to change the Standing Orders. That is what the Leader of the House said. Is the Secretary of State saying that he is wrong ? Did the Secretary of State clear the matter with the Leader of the House to make arrangements smoothly before he threw it at us at a meeting of the Welsh Grand Committee on a day when I had constituents visiting the House ?

Mr. Hunt : I do not understand which day the hon. Gentleman is talking about. That was not what I proposed at the Welsh Grand Committee. I did not mention a date. I said that I hoped that it would meet as soon as possible. I wish that the hon. Gentleman would listen to what I said, because, a few moments ago, I said that I had heard the remarks of the Leader of the House. It is possible to reach an agreement, and then it would not be necessary to hold a debate. That is being discussed through the usual channels, and I hope the matter will be resolved quickly.

I believe that we have everything to gain from a wide-ranging debate on the imposition of a Welsh assembly, which would run Wales from Cardiff. [Interruption.] The Opposition may not want to hear the

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arguments, but I shall ensure that they are heard by the people of Wales, and I shall seize every opportunity to do that.

Mrs. Ann Clwyd (Cynon Valley) : The right hon. Gentleman is frothing at the mouth so much that I wonder whether he thinks there is something dishonourable in changing one's mind. I wish that more politicians were willing to change their minds and were willing to say so, because there is nothing dishonourable in that. When the referendum on devolution took place, 80 per cent. of the people of Wales were against, but in the recent poll, 47 per cent. said that they were now in favour. Would he describe that as a U-turn as well?

Mr. Hunt : I remind the hon. Lady that, before the referendum campaign took place, more than 40 per cent. of the Welsh were in favour of a Welsh assembly. However, once they heard the arguments, they rejected it by an 80 per cent. majority. I am not calling the right hon. Member for Islwyn dishonourable--I called him the right hon. Gentleman. I just want him to say whether he has changed his mind, but he has refrained from doing so. I challenge him to spell out his party's policy, because many in the House and outside still do not know what it is.

Before hon. Members intervened about the Welsh assembly--I hope that we shall have a wide-ranging debate on that important issue--I was discussing the question of community action. The hon. Member for Cynon Valley (Mrs. Clwyd) will be aware that we have provided funding towards the establishment of the Cynon valley business leadership team and towards its agenda for action programmes in Wales. The purpose of the "Agenda for Action" is to encourage companies and business leaders to support and increase development and prosperity in their local communities. I want to see that sort of approach develop much more widely.

A key part of our economic regeneration strategy is our support for the Cardiff Bay development corporation. The scope offered by the restoration of the old bay area is being recognised by investors. For example, the Prudential insurance company has decided to locate there its new regional headquarters for Wales and the south-west of England which will provide 200 jobs. The completion of the barrage--the legislation is now going through the House--will attract up to 25,000 new jobs and private sector investment of more than £1,000 million. The barrage, when completed, will represent the most prestigious and impressive waterfront development in Europe.

There is a tendency--I believe an erroneous one--to consider economic regeneration only in the context of the old industrial areas, but the rural areas of Wales are of vital importance. It was in recognition of this that, just over a year ago, I launched my rural initiative. As part of that package, I made £15 million available in extra provision for rural programmes, together with an extra £5 million set aside for local authority capital projects. On 9 December 1991, I published a document that set out my objectives for rural Wales, and at the same time I announced a series of related measures. As well as further increases in resources for the Development Board for Rural Wales, the WDA, the Wales tourist board and the Countryside Council, an important element of my announcements was a new competitive programme for local authority capital projects designed for the benefit of

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rural communities. I have set £6 million aside for that in 1992-93. The bids for projects under the programme are due in by next Tuesday. As last year, I hope that we shall have the greatest difficulty in deciding on the successful projects.

The key industry of the rural areas is of course agriculture. I fully recognise the difficulties which our farmers are facing at present. I firmly believe that a healthy agricultural sector is vital to the future economic, environmental and social well-being of Wales, and I assure the farmers of Wales that I will do everything in my power to achieve that. I am delighted that I have been able to secure for them the full 10 ecu increase in suckler cow premium funded by the European Community. I was also pleased to note last month that there had been an improvement in farming incomes over the past year, with aggregate net incomes rising by 15 per cent. compared with a fall in the United Kingdom as a whole of 14 per cent.

I have been twice, in the past three months, to see Commissioner MacSharry in Brussels to urge on him the necessity of any reforms in the common agricultural policy being fair to those, like our Welsh hill farmers, who are totally dependent on farming for their income. I promise our farmers that their interests are my interests and that their battle is my battle, and together we shall be heard in Brussels.

Mr. John P. Smith (Vale of Glamorgan) : Does the right hon. Gentleman agree that the MacSharry proposals as they stand would be detrimental to Welsh lowland farmers?

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