House of Commons Hansard Debates for 6 May 1992

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have included a celebration of a visit by Her Majesty to the European Parliament or a statement in favour of rail transport. We welcome the Government's commitment to increase rail use and to give private services access to the British Rail network provided that the profits from that are ploughed back into the rail system. We also welcome the citizens charter proposals to make the public service more responsive to the consumer, provided that they are matched by a commitment to invest in public services to improve quality for the consumer.

Behind all that, however, there is no evidence of a Government with a clear set of new ideas for our country. Instead, I see a Government who intend to stumble on after an election that they did not expect to win. We are told that this is to be a Government of opportunity. Britain needs a Government committed to widening opportunity and to providing escape routes for those who are trapped, but that would require investment in education and a commitment to housing. It would require giving greater chances to employees to share in the ownership and success of their jobs. It would require a new boost for individual enterprise and a programme to create greater flexibility in the labour market. It would require giving new chances to women, to ethnic minorities, to the poor and to the trapped. None of that is visible in the Government's programme in the Gracious Speech. I fear that the Gracious Speech shows all too clearly that the Prime Minister was as surprised by his election victory as were many other people. Having obtained his mandate and opportunity, he has yet to propose a clear idea of how he intends to use it. I am reminded of the famous words of Winston Churchill who, when asked what he thought of a pudding, said, "It has no theme". Nor have the Government. 4.28 pm

Mr. David Knox (Staffordshire, Moorlands) : I should like to thank you, Madam Speaker, for calling me at this early stage in the first debate that you are chairing as Speaker. I hope that I shall be equally fortunate in future in what I hope will be a long and which I know will be a distinguished Speakership.

I congratulate my right hon. Friend the Member for Mole Valley (Mr. Baker) and my hon. Friend the Member for Gedling (Mr. Mitchell) on their excellent speeches in proposing and seconding the Loyal Address. I remember the remarks of my right hon. Friend the Member for Mole Valley in 1979 about the balance between sycophancy and rebellion. He seems to have managed to achieve that balance very well immediately after 1979, and I hope that he and my hon. Friend the Member for Gedling will be equally successful in that respect in the next 13 years.

I should like to congratulate my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister on leading the Conservative party to a fourth consecutive general election victory. Much of the credit for that victory belongs to my right hon. Friend, whose calm, quiet but firm leadership was in tune with the times and whose hopes and aspirations for the future were in line with those of the people of this country. My right hon. Friend now has a mandate in his own right : he can be his own man, and I believe that he will be his own man.

It is as well to remember that many people voted for other than Conservative candidates in the general election. The Conservative party polled more than 42 per cent. of

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the popular vote, and, in my view, that means that the Government should proceed with caution and restraint over the next few years. In his first major speech after again becoming Prime Minister in 1951, Winston Churchill said :

"What the nation needs is several years of quiet, steady administration, if only to allow Socialist legislation to reach its full fruition."--[ Official Report, 6 November 1951 ; Vol. 493, c. 68.]

Fortunately, we have had no socialist legislation since 1979, but we have had a great deal of reforming legislation in the past 13 years, particularly in the past five years, and it needs time to reach its full fruition. I am thinking particularly of the health and education reforms. With the return of a Conservative Government, the threat of reversing those reforms has now been removed. The aim in this Parliament should be to consolidate them.

Perhaps at this stage I should congratulate you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, on your new appointment, and wish you many happy years in that post--generous, of course, to Back Benchers at all times.

Mr. Irvine Patnick (Sheffield, Hallam) : Especially senior ones.

Mr. Knox : I did not say that.

I welcome very much the fact that the Gracious Speech does not outline too heavy a programme of radical legislation. No doubt there will be sufficient in the Gracious Speech to keep the House busy, but not too busy to prevent it from spending more time debating the broader issues of foreign and domestic policy, which are of much greater significance to the future of this country than much of the legislation that passes through the House.

The most important legislation which the House will consider in the coming Session is the Bill to implement the Maastricht agreement. As a passionate believer in the European Community, I welcome that legislation as a further step toward the strengthening of the Community. The Maastricht agreement confirmed the commitment in the treaty of Rome to

"an ever closer union among the peoples of Europe",

but, significantly, it added

"where decisions are taken as closely as possible to the citizens",

thus incorporating the principle of subsidiarity into Community legislation and practice. It is a principle that is widely accepted throughout the Community. It makes it clear that greater unity does not necessarily mean greater centralisation.

The Maastricht agreement also extends the legislative role of the European Parliament. I have never understood the attitude of opponents of membership of the European Community who criticise its lack of democratic accountability but, at the same time, are opposed to strengthening the European Parliament. Elected Parliaments are surely about democracy or they are about nothing. I understand that the Maastricht legislation will be introduced in the near future. I hope that it will have a trouble-free and speedy passage through the House, particularly as it will either immediately precede or coincide with Britain's presidency of the European Community.

Although Britain is not committed to joining a single currency under the Maastricht agreement, it is obviously desirable that we should do so. If we are able to do so, it

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is essential that our balance of payments problem should be resolved as quickly as possible. The current account of our balance of payments has now been in deficit for more than five years. The deficit peaked at more than £20 billion in 1989. It is estimated at £6.5 billion for this year. Although that is an improvement on 1989, it would be wrong to conclude that we can sit back and assume that the balance of payments will right itself in the next few years. During the past three years economic growth has been strongly braked back. The economy has been in recession. In a recession the current account of the balance of payments improves. Imports of raw materials and manufactured goods fall, or at least stop rising. Firms with short domestic order books are forced to be more active in export markets--no bad thing in itself--and exports rise. Lower imports and higher exports combine to reflect a smaller deficit, or even a small surplus, but as soon as the economy starts to expand again the process goes into reverse. That has happened too often in the past to assume that it will not happen again this time. On top of that there is the fact that, although the reduction in the deficit is welcome, the deficit is still too large for an economy which is in recession. The length of time that our current account has been in deficit and the size of the deficits suggest that there is something fundamentally wrong with the exchange rate and that the value of sterling is too high in relation to other currencies. As a consequence, British exports are dearer than they should be and therefore more difficult to sell overseas, while imports are cheaper than they should be and therefore easier to sell in this country. In such circumstances, a downward adjustment in the value of sterling is both necessary and desirable. Of course, we are now in the exchange rate mechanism of the European monetary system and our freedom of manoeuvre is limited. I have supported British membership of the ERM for many years and I was delighted when we joined in 1990 when my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister was Chancellor of the Exchequer. Membership means that, for 60 per cent. of our trade, British importers and exporters enjoy the advantage of reasonably stable exchange rates. Importers know what they will pay and exporters know what they will be paid.

That is particularly advantageous for the manufacturing sector. Membership of the ERM is also an important tool in the battle against inflation. It is not just coincidental that the breakdown of the Bretton Woods regime of fixed exchange rates was followed by galloping inflation in Britain and elsewhere.

As one strongly committed to British membership of the ERM, I have no desire to undermine it, but it would have been strange if Britain had joined at exactly the right rate for sterling. Given the size and nature of our current account deficit, there is a strong case for an adjustment in the value of sterling within the mechanism. It would have to be a one-off adjustment. It would have to be made clear that it would not be repeated. Therefore, there would be no reason for anyone to believe that the discipline of the ERM would be undermined.

The adjustment would aim to ensure that sterling was at a level at which the current account of our balance of payments would be in balance in an average year. British exporters and importers would enjoy the advantages of stable exchange rates in their trade with other European countries. Britain would enjoy the benefits of the

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anti-inflationary discipline of sterling fixed in the ERM. British interest rates could be lower because they would no longer be required to maintain sterling at an artificially high level. The economic prospects for Britain would be set fair for the next few years. We would be in a strong position to join a single currency later this decade.

I would like to touch on one other subject for a few moments--the situation in Scotland. I was pleased that the Conservative party did better than anticipated in the general election in Scotland and that it improved its position compared to 1987. But it got only 25 per cent. of the popular vote, and there is no point in pretending that it was other than a bad result. Although disproportionately large sums of central Government money have been and are being spent in Scotland, there is a great deal of evidence to show that the Government are out of touch with the mood of the Scottish people. Therefore, there is no room for complacency in the Conservative party about Scotland.

Obviously, the election result does not mean that the Government have no right to govern Scotland, any more than the failure of the Labour Governments of 1964 and 1974 to gain more votes in England deprived them of the right to govern England. It is as well to remember that we are still a united kingdom and that all the parties in this House, except for the nationalists, are committed to the Union. Although the Government have a right to govern Scotland, I hope that they will try to understand and respond to the hopes, aspirations and fears of the Scottish people.

I welcome the remarks of my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister this afternoon, but I ask the Government to look again at the question of devolution. I supported the Labour Government's devolution proposals in the 1970s and I have never regretted doing so. I am worried that, if the Government continue to ignore the desire of the Scottish people to have a greater say over their own internal affairs, we may end up with a much more serious problem than we have now. Far from undermining the Union, devolution to Scotland would strengthen it. If the principle of subsidiarity is right for Britain in the European Community, surely it is also right for Scotland within the United Kingdom.

4.41 pm

Mr. Clive Betts (Sheffield, Attercliffe) : First, Mr. Deputy Speaker, I congratulate you on your election to your new office and thank you for letting me catch your eye and be the first Member to make his maiden speech in this Parliament.

Secondly, I give my thanks and those of my constituents to my predecessor, Sir Patrick Duffy, who as Member for Sheffield, Attercliffe from 1970 was recognised for his diligence on behalf of his constituents and for his expertise, in particular, on defence matters. He was an Under-Secretary of State for Defence for three years during the 1970s, and afterwards he was the President of the North Atlantic Assembly where he did an excellent job ably. During my time as a candidate in the constituency I learned from many of my now constituents of the work that Sir Patrick did on their behalf, and the respect and esteem in which he was held. I am sure that it is right for me today to place that firmly on the record.

Thirdly, I thank my constituents for placing their confidence in me by electing me as their Member of

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Parliament. I want to serve all their individual interests, but there are also matters of particular and general concern to my constituency to which I shall refer this afternoon and which I hope to pursue in my time in the House.

My constituency is a diverse one. The name Attercliffe comes from the old, industrial part of the constituency, which was the heart of our nation's steel and engineering industry. Unfortunately, that heart is a little smaller than it was and beats a little more slowly than it did ; yet it remains an important part of British industry. Unfortunately, unemployment in the constituency has risen two and a half times in the past 20 years. That is of considerable concern. I am determined to direct my efforts towards working with the city council and local industry, which have formed a partnership, to address in particular the twin problems of long-term and youth unemployment.

Workers in Sheffield are proud of their skills, traditions and good industrial relations. It is a tragedy that people who for years and generations used their skills to turn the scrap of this nation into steel and engineering products now see themselves consigned to the industrial scrap heap through unemployment. That cannot be tolerated. It is ironic that, as I begin a new life and career in this House at the age of 42, some of my constituents of the same age fear that they will never work again.

In addition to the old industrial part of my constituency, there are new areas of growth which almost comprise a new town in themselves. There are areas of new housing and young families where education is a key priority. My constituents desire an education service that is comprehensive, integrated and free at the point of delivery. If equality of opportunity and an equal start in life for the children of my constituents are to be a reality, educational opportunity must be available from the age of three, not five. I shall strive to achieve the development and advancement of comprehensive nursery education provision for all who want it. The growth in new housing by and large is in housing for sale. It is right that people who choose and can afford to have a home of their own should be able to buy, but many people cannot afford to buy or choose not to buy and for them there must be the opportunity of a home for rent. In Sheffield we have a unique partnership scheme with private developers, housing associations and the local authority working together. I hope that I can continue to support and help that development which provides homes for rent for those who cannot afford any other form of home, while recognising the right of everyone, whatever his or her circumstances, to a decent home.

The issues of housing and education are important elements in local government and with my background I must recognise that. Local government is not just a provider of a whole variety of important services. From time to time, I shall undoubtedly draw attention in the House to the poor revenue support grant that the city of Sheffield gets. Opposition to the low amount of grant has come from all political parties on Sheffield city council together with the chamber of commerce. No doubt I shall return to that in future. Just as I believe that local government services are important, I believe in the principle of local democracy, local accountability and subsidiarity. The best government for our people is conducted as close as possible to those who are governed. We in this House should recognise that

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the principle and value of local democracy is an important counterforce to the extremes of centralisation. I hope to argue that case in future.

In addition, the work of our local councils is of value and importance. People do not simply make a sacrifice on a voluntary basis for nothing. Many of our local councillors give up their time and that of their families on behalf of their constituencies and councils in the furtherance of local democracy and the pursuance of services. Often that effort and contribution goes unrewarded and unrecognised. I hope to return to that issue, which is of great importance.

Finally, I turn to two different issues which affect different members of my constituency. The first is Kashmir. Many of my constituents and their families originated in Kashmir. It is right that the House should place on record its concern about the atrocities, violence and confusion in countries such as Yugoslavia and the various states into which in the past few months it has broken up. It is right that we have condemned the atrocities and supported the principle of self-determination. Many of my constituents have relatives in Kashmir who fear for their lives. My constituents are worried about the atrocities and the abuses of civil rights there. I hope that we can have a debate on how to deal with that, so that we can place on the record our concern about those problems, and I hope that we can eventually return to the United Nations resolution passed more than 40 years ago that Kashmir should also have the right to self- determination.

You, Mr. Deputy Speaker, may not know that I am a member of the most exclusive club in the House of Commons. Its president is my right hon. Friend the Member for Birmingham, Sparkbrook (Mr. Hattersley) ; the chief supporters are my hon. Friends the Members for Sheffield, Brightside (Mr. Blunkett) and for Sheffield, Heeley (Mr. Michie) ; and the team manager is my hon. Friend the Member for Bassetlaw (Mr. Ashton). I refer to the House of Commons Sheffield Wednesday supporters club and wish to be the first hon. Member to place on record my congratulations to Sheffield Wednesday on bringing European football to Sheffield for the first time in 20 years. As I wish to offend neither my constituents nor my hon. Friend the Member for Sheffield, Central (Mr. Caborn), may I also place on record my appreciation of Sheffield United's rapid rise up the table in the second half of the season. I look forward to renewed duals between the teams in the Premier League next season.

On a more serious note, I was unfortunately present on that terrible day when the disaster occurred at Hillsborough. I recognise the important work carried out and proposals made by the Taylor inquiry. I also recognise that in football, as in so many other matters that will come before the House in the next few years, we must have regard to proposals that are made in Europe. Nevertheless, if we are serious about taking account of consumers' views, the views of football supporters must also be considered when the House looks at the final proposals for football ground safety.

I was pleased that the new Secretary of State for National Heritage said the other day that he was willing to

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listen again to arguments, especially on all- seater stadiums, about which I have serious doubts. I shall wish to return to that issue in the future.

I conclude my first contribution in the House with those comments, as that issue consumes most of my time outside the House. I thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, for letting me catch your eye, and hon. Members for their courtesy in listening to me.

4.53 pm

Sir Patrick McNair-Wilson (New Forest) : I, too, congratulate you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, on your elevation to high office. I hope that your burden will be lighter as a result of the private Bill reforms that were passed in the last Parliament.

I also have enormous pleasure in congratulating the hon. Member for Sheffield, Attercliffe (Mr. Betts). His predecessor, Sir Patrick Duffy, and I entered the House together 28 years ago. I entirely agree with the hon. Gentleman that all his colleagues felt great affection for him. The hon. Gentleman's speech has shown that his constituency of Attercliffe has chosen a worthy successor. Having listened to his remarks, I hope that we shall hear plenty more from him in the years ahead.

It is clear from the Gracious Speech that much of this Session will be devoted to matters relating to Europe. Indeed, Her Majesty said that not only will legislation be introduced but that she will visit many of the major European countries during the next year. Europe is now suffering grave political instability, partly because old regimes are coming under new pressures--I am thinking particularly of Germany--and partly because other countries, such as our French neighbours, have found that the operation of their socialist Administrations have caused great economic difficulties. The fact that the last Prime Minister of France, Mrs. Edith Cresson, lasted only 10 months is evidence of that. Belgium has a deep political problem, with the old difficulties between the Flemish and Walloons re-emerging once again, and Italy has just had another general election.

It is therefore extremely important that the House looks carefully at every step on the way to further European integration. It might not be unreasonable to suggest that, given the changes that have taken place in the past three years, the whole concept needs to go back to the drawing board. The Europe of today grew out of the concept of Mr. Monnet's idea of a balanced community--states of approximately the same political and economic weight. However, the re-emergence of a united Germany has clearly upset that balance. One day, Germany will not only be the largest member state, but will probably have the strongest economy and currency.

The Gracious Speech says :

"My Government will pursue, within the framework of the exchange rate mechanism, firm financial policies designed to achieve price stability and maintain the conditions necessary for sustained growth."

I recognise that that will be an extremely difficult task. We are currently members of an exchange rate mechanism in which the bench-mark currency is that of one of the countries in the greatest difficulty. It could be argued that the concept of choosing the deutschmark as the bench-mark currency should be reviewed and that we should not always be left with the same single European currency.

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Mr. Delors has chosen this time of imbalance to escalate the argument for creating within Europe a separate European Government. I believe that most hon. Members would reject that concept. I listened with great interest to my hon. Friend the Member for Staffordshire, Moorlands (Mr. Knox), because he is committed to the concept of a united Europe. Too many hon. Members, because they consider themselves "bien passant" with the concept of Europe--they have exchanges with friends in Europe and go there for their holidays--seem to believe that Europe is one country. It most certainly is not. As I explained in my speech on the Loyal Address last year, I have a home in Europe and many friends tell me of their worries and problems. Listening to their concerns, I realise that Europe is not one happy family but a group of countries, each with its own aspirations and determined to get the best possible deal for itself. Our future lies within that concept of what General de Gaulle described as "Europe des patries".

Later in the Gracious Speech I note a reference to the Maastricht treaty and I recognise how careful we must be in our approach to that legislation. Many people in Europe are nervous about the Maastricht treaty. People in France, Germany and elsewhere are far from satisfied that we should proceed in that way. After all, we talk about the convergence of economies. My right hon. Friend the Prime Minister, in a brilliant speech earlier, spoke of his hopes for the widening of the Community and the new countries that might join by the turn of the century. But if we are to have that convergence of economies hinted at in the Maastricht treaty, we must be frank and admit that substantial amounts of money will have to be paid by the richer countries to the poorer countries in Europe to bring about that convergence.

The people of this country have still not fully understood what that real convergence could mean and the price that would have to be paid. Without that convergence, the concept of a single currency is meaningless. I do not believe that that convergence is possible and, therefore, I do not believe that the single currency will follow. The single currency would not be in the best interests of the people of Europe.

Of course, I understand the argument advanced that it would be convenient for business people to be able to move around within the Community without having to change their money from one currency to another. That is a matter of great importance, and I believe that the British Government's concept of the hard ecu is better than the notion of a single currency operated from a single, central bank somewhere in Europe, which removes this country's ability to manage its own affairs. People used to laugh at the words, "loss of sovereignty", but if we cannot issue our own money, we have no control over our destiny. I cannot believe that it is right to adopt that approach without seriously considering what we are doing. I listened to the right hon. Member for Yeovil (Mr. Ashdown) and was as confused by him today as I was during our last debate on the Gracious Speech. He talked about joining the 2.5 per cent. band of the exchange rate mechanism in one breath and of reducing interest rates in the next. Does he not realise that the straitjacket of the 2.5 per cent. band would have made even the modest reduction in interest rates announced by the Chancellor yesterday almost impossible? We need the freedom of the 6 per cent. band if we are to be able to take the actions necessary to bring this country and others in the

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Community out of international recession. While we may be devoting much time to Europe in the next 16 to 18 months, there is no doubt that we need to proceed with great caution.

The Gracious Speech also stated :

"Legislation will be presented to facilitate the work of the Parliamentary Boundary Commissions."

No one could be more anxious than me for a swift conclusion to the commissioners' suggestions based on commonsense solutions. But I shall mention a matter affecting my district. Part of my constituency includes the perambulation of the Crown lands of the New Forest. It is perhaps appropriate to mention that today, the day on which Her Majesty read her speech from the Throne.

Those Crown lands are what most people would call the New Forest. They have always been retained in one constituency, as that gives the Member of Parliament for that constituency--of whichever party--the opportunity to argue and negotiate with Ministers about the help required to protect that unique national heritage.

In 1983 the parliamentary commissioners reconsidered the demography of the district and, as a result, decided to make alterations to the constituency boundary affecting that perambulation. As a result of evidence that I gave to a local inquiry, the commissioners' report, Cmnd Paper 8797-1 of February 1983, concluded :

"The assistant Commissioner accepted that the whole of the historic area of the New Forest should be within one constituency." On 6 February 1992 the boundary commissioners published proposals for the parliamentary constituency boundaries in Berkshire, Hampshire and the Isle of Wight. In those more recent proposals--to which the passage in the Gracious Speech refers--they go back on their word and divide the perambulation into two seats.

I have nothing against the concept of two constituencies in that part of Hampshire, based largely on population. However, it is ironic that the Isle of Wight, which has 101,000 electors, is not being touched--I shall put that matter to one side. But if we are to facilitate the boundary commissioners' actions, we must hope that the legislation contains a clause to ensure that the commissioners stick to the guidelines to which they agreed in 1983 and which were based on community interest, rather than divide a region of such national and international importance between two parts of the parliamentary system.

My right hon. Friend the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food is coming to the New Forest on Monday to participate in the opening of a new committee designed to help protect the district--the New Forest committee-- which will ultimately have statutory powers. Its headquarters will be in Lyndhurst which is regarded as the capital of the forest but, if the proposals are accepted, the rest of the Crown lands would come under another constituency.

The Gracious Speech has set out an exciting programme for this Session of Parliament. Many matters to which we shall return are part of the heritage that this Government have inherited from their predecessors. For the past 13 years we have mapped out a road for Britain--rolling back the frontiers of state monopoly and control, and giving freedom to our citizens. The result of the general election is clear in that it shows that the people of this country broadly suppport those objectives. I warmly welcome the Gracious Speech.

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5.7 pm

Mr. Roy Hughes (Newport, East) : May I first congratulate you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, on your appointment to high office. I am sure that in the years ahead you will play a full part in ensuring fair and effective debates in the House.

It is always a pleasure to follow the hon. Member for New Forest (Sir P. McNair-Wilson). I share his reservations about the Maastricht treaty, but I do not intend to expand on his observations today. The Gracious Speech contains a number of items with which I agree, such as the measure relating to terrorism and drugs. However, there are quite a number of items which I would rather had been left out. I particularly resent the further attack on the trade union movement contained on page 3, where it states :

"A Bill will be introduced to improve further the law on industrial relations."

That is a further attempt to weaken organised labour in this country.

The second item on page 3 states that the coal industry is to be privatised. The Conservative party won the general election and some might say that it is perhaps to be expected that the Conservative Government will turn the heat on their traditional enemy--the miner. The immediate post-war Attlee Government nationalised coal mines in 1947. Owing to the failure of previous coal owners to invest in the industry, that measure was long overdue. It was intended to bring harmony where bitterness and long- standing grievances prevailed, and was not without success. There was much modernisation of the industry, greater efficiency, and, until recent years, better industrial relations.

I am sure that privatisation will result in many pit closures and thousands of job losses. As the Rothschild report and others made clear, the industry in south Wales is already just about wiped out. It was not so long ago that we had pits in abundance in south Wales. The mining valleys of south Wales have long provided a great sense of community, but mining is a hazardous and arduous occupation and there are many who will not regret its passing. Nevertheless, the Government are being short-sighted. Coal is a vital part of our indigenous resources. Admittedly, the seams may now be a little more difficult to work, but we have hundreds of years of supply under our feet. As an industrial nation we need large supplies of energy, and to rely increasingly on imports is not very wise. The price of those imports will invariably rise and eventually we could be held to ransom. The increased financial burden will have a grievous effect on our already worrying balance of payments.

North sea oil is in decline. From experience we know that imports of oil from the middle east can be problematic, not to mention the associated massive price variations. Nuclear energy, as a source of fuel for civilian purposes, has proved a disaster financially and is highly questionable from an environment point of view.

Over the years, despite the many pit closures and the general rundown of the industry, the old coal owners continued to extract their pound of flesh in compensation payments, which certainly had a gravely detrimental effect on the finances of the old national coal board. Ironically, under the Government's new plans, it will inevitably be the taxpayer who will bear the brunt of the burden of the future rundown of the industry. I refer to historical

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liabilities for subsidence, pit closure costs, concessionary coal for retired miners and their dependants, and pension payments. The Government's plans are misguided and short-sighted, and they should think again.

As for economic policy as set out in the Queen's Speech, I must point out that Britain has legions of unemployed people. Month after month the total increases. Like a tap left running, unemployment is waste. The cost in financial terms is tragic enough, but the social and human costs are of even greater consequence. Unemployment plays its part in the ever- escalating divorce rates, in child abuse and child neglect, in wife battering and even in death rates, which have been proved to be directly related to unemployment in certain areas. Any person or organisation suggesting that the mounting crime rate has little to do with unemployment needs to think again. The return of full employment should be a principal objective of every major political party. It is no longer the down and outs who are the unemployed, or the unskilled labourers. People of all classes are becoming increasingly subject to the fear of unemployment and the personal and family problems that it unleashes.

The economist Keynes is back in vogue : we need to stimulate demand and to build up our industrial capacity to meet that demand. The EC surely has a vested interest in drastically reducing unemployment. Our chronic balance of payments deficit shows that the exchange rate is out of line. Other countries seem to be in the same boat as ourselves vis-a-vis Germany. If the problem is not tackled, social tensions could arise throughout Europe. Extremism will come to the fore as it did in the 1930s, and the recent events in Los Angeles and other American cities give grave cause for concern.

If we do not realise the folly of present policies, the tragedy waiting to happen will be on our very doorstep. The Prime Minister has given us his text--a nation at ease with itself. How can it be, given mass unemployment? It is a contradiction in terms. The proposals in the Gracious Speech will certainly not solve this great problem.

The Gracious Speech does not mention the reorganisation of local government in Wales. Perhaps that is included in

"Other measures will be laid before you" ;

but there is a good deal of anxiety in Wales about this matter. The reform of local government in Wales has quite a history. In the late 1960s the Labour party had a good plan for reorganisation. It was based largely on the two-tier principle, but with an amalgamation of many of the smaller urban and rural authorities. The counties would have remained. At the same time, the plans realised the benefits of unitary authorities, and Cardiff, Swansea and Newport would have retained county borough status.

Unfortunately, the plan did not see the light of day in parliamentary legislation. The then Secretary of State for Wales, now Viscount Tonypandy, was prevailed upon by his Cabinet colleagues to wait for the Redcliffe-Maud report, which was in the process of deliberation. In the event, it was the Redcliffe-Maud recommendations that were largely implemented by the incoming Conservative Government of 1970--not only in Wales but in the rest of the country. The cost was astronomic, and I venture to suggest that at the end of it all we had a worse form of local government than before.

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Now it seems that the process is to be gone through again. This time the Secretary of State for Wales has said that the system will be based on unitary authorities. In Newport we welcome the proposal that the borough council will be the sole unit of local government, for that is what the people of the town desire. Newport has the resources to carry out the necessary functions. I pay tribute, however, to Gwent county council, which has been an excellent local authority. It is served by good officers and staff and its elected members are of a high calibre.

I want to draw two aspects of local government reorganisation to the attention of the House. First, the power of local government has been eroded by central Government. The Government came badly unstuck over the poll tax, but the diktat of the Treasury now predominates. For example, schools are being encouraged to opt out although the costs involved are much higher than for local authority schools. Many other local government services are being handed over to private enterprise and a deterioration in services seems to be the hallmark of that development. The whole thrust of the Government's approach is detrimental to the interests of the people that local government serves. It undermines the whole principle of local democracy in Britain, which was once admired the world over.

I regret the absence from the Gracious Speech of any plan to create an elected assembly in Wales. With unitary authorities, some of them fairly small, the need for such an assembly is ever more pressing. What is happening in Wales is little short of colonial rule with the Secretary of State for Wales, who represents a Cheshire constituency, playing the part of Governor-General. Quangos proliferate and more seem to be in the pipeline. Their members are appointed by the Secretary of State and are responsible only to him. Wales needs a healthy dose of democracy, which an elected assembly would provide. I hope that during the Government's term of office the people of Wales will come to appreciate the need for an elected assembly to fill a vacuum that has existed for too long.

5.21 pm

Rev. Ian Paisley (Antrim, North) : I congratulate you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, on your appointment to your high office. I am sure that you will order the business of the House in the best interests of every Member and that Back Benchers especially will have your protection. I think that we entered the House about the same time and have served for many years, although I have more grey hairs than you. The penultimate paragraph of the Gracious Speech states : "In Northern Ireland, my Government will continue their efforts to eliminate terrorism through resolute enforcement of the law, combined with progressive economic, social and political policies. They will promote the re-establishment of stable institutions of government within a framework of positive relations with the Republic of Ireland."

I welcome that statement in the speech from the Throne and the fact that the Prime Minister has confirmed the Government's intention to be resolute in the elimination of terrorism. The House will be aware that there is a new Secretary of State for Northern Ireland. When he arrived in our Province he said :

"Terrorism will be defeated. We cannot tell when but the time will come when this evil will be ejected from our midst--pray God never to return The entire Government from Prime Minister downwards is committed first and foremost to the defeat and elimination of terrorism from whichever quarter from within the community it may come."

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Those are strong words and they are welcomed by the entire right-thinking community in Northern Ireland, but to give them validity there must be definite action. The spiral of appalling killings in the Province at the moment becomes more and more horrendous as 1992 advances. That demonstrates that the security policies of successive Governments have not succeeded.

Already this year 47 people have been killed. We are not yet half way through the year but that figure represents more than half the total number of people killed in the Province last year. Since the current violence began in 1969, 2,999 people have died in Ulster. Those are sobering figures. Last year, 86 people were killed. Not content with the bombing of military targets and police stations, the terrorists have gruesomely demonstrated their desire to murder civilians and security personnel to bring about their hideous objectives. There have been horrendous killings of innocent mothers and children and of people going about their normal business. Such a sad and terrible litany of killing and mayhem shows that the Government must put their resolution into action, and such action must be shown to be eliminating terrorism.

I look forward to a change in some of the security policies that have so evidently failed. The supply of oxygen must be taken from the terrorists so that at long last it will be made clear to them that men of violence have no place in our society and cannot achieve their goals. I remind the House that the Government submitted to those men of violence when they signed the Anglo-Irish Agreement. Concessions as a consequence of violence encourage greater violence. Sadly, we in Northern Ireland have reaped the whirlwind of the Government's concessions to violence.

As the House may know, talks about the future governance of the Province have recommenced. I am sure that the House wishes those who take part in the talks well. They will not be easy because there are many problems and difficulties. At the last meeting of the Anglo-Irish Conference on 27 April, the new Secretary of State for Northern Ireland said that Her Majesty's Government would "rise from the table still reaffirming that Northern Ireland would remain part of the United Kingdom as long as the majority living there wished it."

I welcome today's statement by the Prime Minister that he is prepared to defend the union of Scotland, Wales, England and Northern Ireland. As that statement is implemented, it will go a long way towards showing the terrorists that they will not win. Two years ago the previous Secretary of State for Northern Ireland said : "Although the constitutional question has often seemed central to matters in Northern Ireland, I turn to it now in the hope of putting it to one side. We regard the position as clear. Northern Ireland is part of the United Kingdom in national and international law. It is part of the United Kingdom because that is the clear wish of the majority of people of Northern Ireland. There will be no change in the status of Northern Ireland unless or until the majority of people there want it. That seems unlikely for the foreseeable future. I believe that most people in this House, and I number myself among them, would wish to see the Union continue, but the principles of democracy and self-determination mean that the people of Northern Ireland must themselves be the final arbiters.

By virtue of its constitution the Republic of Ireland has since 1937 also claimed sovereignty over Northern Ireland. We do not accept or recognise that claim, which has no basis in our law or, equally important, in international law. That claim is, I know, seen by some in Northern Ireland, and in

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other parts of this country, as a major stumbling block to the development of constructive relationships. I do not regard it as helpful."--[ Official Report, 5 July 1990 ; Vol. 175, c. 1140.] I welcome that statement, and its reaffirmation by the new Secretary of State.

The House should be aware that when the talks were called an agenda was drawn up and agreed to by all the parties. The House will be aware also that there are three strands to the talks. The first strand is the constitutional politicians of Northern Ireland, the parties that they represent and the United Kingdom Government. The second strand is the constitutional representatives of Northern Ireland, Her Majesty's Government and the Government of the Republic of Ireland. It is to deal with the implications of the Anglo-Irish Agreement in regard to the relationship between Northern Ireland and the Republic and the attempt that underlies the talks to get a new agreement to replace the former one.

I regret that southern Ireland has publicly acted in bad faith. On 27 April, after the most recent meeting of the Anglo-Irish Conference, Mr. Andrews, the Foreign Minister of the Irish Republic, had this to say about the talks :

"We come with our agenda, they come with their agenda and we discuss both agendas".

Yet all the parties to the talks had the agendas put before them and were asked to say yea or nay. Why does the Irish Republic want the change ? Mr. Andrews said that the legal basis of Northern Ireland's constitutional position within the United Kingdom was the Government of Ireland Act 1920. He said that that Act must be put upon the table, as it were, and that it must be negotiable. He asserted that it was on a par with the claim that is set out in articles 2 and 3 of the Irish Republic's constitution that the Republic has jurisdiction over Northern Ireland as part of Her Majesty's kingdom.

As a representative of the people of Northern Ireland in the House, I wish to make it clear that the Government of Ireland Act is a legal Act under which Northern Ireland stands as part of the United Kingdom. It makes no claim against anybody's territory. It states simply that the six north- eastern counties of Ireland remain part of the United Kingdom. However, the Foreign Minister of the Irish Republic tells us that the Act is on a par with an illegal claim--not only is it illegal, it is immoral and criminal. Whenever an IRA man takes a gun and shoots a police officer, a soldier or a civilian he justifies that act by saying that he is trying to achieve the objective that is set out in the constitution.

The former Secretary of State said that the talks would take place "without the dilution of United Kingdom sovereignty on the status of Northern Ireland as part of the United Kingdom."

The hon. Member for Foyle (Mr. Hume) said :

"the harsh reality is that whether or not Unionists have the academic right to a veto on Irish unity, they have it as a matter of fact based on numbers, geography and history and they have it in the exact same way as Greek or Turkish Cypriots have a factual veto on the exercise of self- determination on the island of Cyprus." Yet the Foreign Minister of the Irish Republic, at this late stage, is prepared to impose another agenda, not agreed. I am glad that the Prime Minister said today that the Union is not negotiable. My hon. Friends and I, my colleague the leader of the Ulster Unionist party, the right hon. Member for Lagan Valley (Mr. Molyneaux), and other Northern

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