House of Commons Hansard Debates for 18 May 1992

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The Minister will know that I have taken a particular interest in the mining consortium that is seeking to operate Monktonhall colliery in Midlothian. At present, British Coal has provisionally allocated a licence to that consortium, and negotiations are under way on the terms under which the colliery will be taken over. My up- to-date information is that a meeting will take place next Monday between the consortium and senior British Coal officials to discuss the future. Evidence will be given that the consortium has sufficient capital to run the colliery efficiently and safely.

The consortium is looking for a 10-year licence. Its members have each agreed to contribute £10,000 of their own money, which is five times their original pledge. Those people are ex-miners, and they are prepared to put up £10,000 of their own money to take over the pit that they used to operate. They say that they will be supported financially by the Clydesdale bank, the TSB, the Royal Bank of Scotland and the Bank of Scotland. I do not know the terms of that support, and questions have been raised in the past few weeks as to whether it will be a viable proposition. I hope that it will prove feasible for the consortium to take over the pit and that it will be able to demonstrate success in the production of coal where British Coal has previously failed.

My only regret is that, until six months ago, the Government's attitude towards that consortium was one of indifference, if not hostility. The Labour party's attitude was sustained and total hostility until it looked as if the consortium would be successful in obtaining the licence for the pit. The members of the consortium have demonstrated real commitment, and I believe that that proposal is the way forward. If that consortium succeeds, I hope that it will prove a model for others to follow.

A detail arises, on which I hope that the Government will be responsive. If the consortium is successful, as it intends to be, it will quickly reach the ceiling, under current legislation, on the number of people that is is entitled to employ under the existing licence. Presumably, once the coal industry is privatised, all terms and conditions will change. If that situation arises and the consortium reaches the ceiling before the completion of the process of privatisation, will the Government be responsive and receptive so that the consortium is not left at a disadvantage?

That example shows why British Coal cannot possibly continue to be the sole licensor for the rights of extraction. If it is the major producer, it cannot control who else is allowed to enter the market and on what terms and conditions. British Coal cannot be regarded as an unbiased or disinterested party. I hope that the Minister will be able to respond constructively, at least in principle, to those points, which I hope that he agrees are important.

The coal industry has been starved of some of the research and development funding that is available to other energy-producing industries. In the context of privatisation, I hope that the Government will recognise the need for continued research and development into more environmentally friendly ways of using coal, whether through gasification, carbon reduction or other more efficient mechanisms. I hope that privatisation will not lead to a further reduction in research funding.

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There are two problems facing the industry. The first is that our European competitors continue to subsidise their coal industries. I thought that the European Commission had a piece of cheek to suggest that we should follow suit when its job in trying to create the single market in Europe, should be to require our competitors to end the subsidies to enable British Coal to operate on a fair and equal footing.

The second problem results from the prior privatisation of the electricity industry, which has created an effective duopoly controlling the market for coal. Without going into details, the privatisation of British Coal reinforces the case for restructuring a genuine competitive market for electricity in a way that ensures that all sources of fuel have genuine access to the market and that the monopoly of the main electricity producers is not allowed to squeeze the new privatised coal industry unfairly.

I have both a party and a constituency interest in the railways, which are of considerable importance to the north-east of Scotland. Among the other hon. Members who are seeking to catch your eye, Mr. Deputy Speaker, we may find that some of the points that I make are held across the party divide. Our concern has already been brought out in the debate. People continually refer to the east coast main line as being between Edinburgh and London. This causes anger and outrage in Aberdeen, because we think that that is the prevailing view, and that that is why electrification has stopped at Edinburgh. There is a substantial and important chunk of Scotland north of Edinburgh that makes an important contribution to the general wealth of the United Kingdom economy, and it is entitled to be treated rather better than it has been in recent years in terms of services and investment.

For some time, there has been a campaign for the electrification of the line between Edinburgh and Aberdeen. The question that we shall ask of privatisation is whether it is more or less likely to result in further electrification. I was not being facetious or cheeky when I wrote to the managing director of Stagecoach saying that the people of the north-east would naturally welcome the fact that his company was providing a service that had been withdrawn by British Rail, and that we would also welcome his company's support for the campaign for railway electrification of the route on which he was now providing a service.

The question that arises out of this is why Stagecoach can operate a service with a train that is pulled by a British Rail engine, on a fare basis no different from that of British Rail, but can do so at a profit where British Rail could not. That has implications for the future management and direction of the service. However, passengers in the north- east of Scotland welcome the fact that there is now seated accommodation where there had not been for a while. We hope that this will continue.

The impressionist Rory Bremner says that the Prime Minister comes from a long line of train spotters. That makes me a little concerned about the proposals for the franchising of services. I can see the populist appeal of the idea of going back to the romantic days of the Great Western railway, of LMS and LNER. However, as has been said, we have to remember that none of these companies made a profit. They may be romantic in retrospect, but they were not efficient. Much of the competition was cut-throat, to the disadvantage of the shareholder and the travelling public.

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I am sceptical about the proposals on how to deal with British Rail. The expression "cherry picking" has been used to express our natural concern that private companies will choose to pick out the best and most profitable services and leave the Cinderella services either with nobody to operate them or requiring an even greater subsidy because profitable services have been withdrawn from British Rail's revenue -earning base. The question that the Government have to answer is whether British Rail, as franchise holder, would generate more revenue from the private companies than it could by providing the service itself. At this stage, the Government's plans are so shrouded in mystery that it remains unclear whether that will or can be achieved.

There is a line north of Aberdeen as well, running to Inverness, which a previous Transport Minister described as a branch line, but which is an important service to the people in the north-east of Scotland. This case illustrates our concern over whether railway transport is being given fair and equal treatment on all fours with the roads.

I see that a Minister from the Scottish Office is here. He will know the background to the campaign that I have been running, which is aimed at upgrading the A96. I make no apology for that, given the traffic and the population of the north-east of Scotland. A parliamentary question elicited the information that this road was more dangerous than the A74, which is being upgraded to motorway status. In the Minister's presence, I will say that I welcome the fact that the campaign produced a positive response. The Government have made a commitment to upgrading, and next month there will be a seminar to discuss how that programme can continue.

However, if we do not make full use of the railway line that runs alongside the road, we shall increase the problems--such as the passenger traffic that uses the road because the rail service is inadequate, and the freight that will be forced on to the road. The proposal to discontinue freight carrying other than by train loads threatened a massive discharge on to the road of additional lorries from the paper mills and the timber and whisky industries. We have managed to negotiate ways to keep freight transport going, but only on a short-time basis. If we fail in the long term, and Railfreight does not continue to provide a service, an enormous number of lorries will take to that road, which will have a detrimental effect on all users.

I have a regular flow of complaints from passengers on the line who say that the quality of the stations is appalling. In Huntly, some taxi drivers have refused to take passengers to the station because of the potholes in the drive. When I went to look at them, they had suddenly and mysteriously been filled in, but only temporarily. Trains are overcrowded to the point where there are more people standing than sitting, but British Rail will not provide additional trains. That is one of the negative effects of investment on the cheap. The new rolling stock is inferior to the stock that was there before. The trains are smaller and do not provide the same standard of comfort, while their reliability has been far from what we would wish.

There are campaigns to open additional stations so that the line can tap more traffic. One of the most successful station openings in the north-east of Scotland was that of Dyce in my constituency, which now carries over 1,000 passengers a day in and out of Aberdeen, to the great benefit of road users as well as to the passengers themselves. We thought that we might get a station opened

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at Kintore and we got close to it, but have now been told that there is a shortage of land for British Rail, which does not seem to me to be a satisfactory excuse.

A few years ago, there was a manager in the north-east of Scotland, John Gough, who believed that his job was to ensure that the railway services responded to the travelling public. He was so successful in doing this, and therefore so popular, that British Rail gave him early retirement. That was not what it was looking for in the rail service in the north-east of Scotland, but it is what the public are looking for and it is what we expect.

When the White Paper is published, we shall ask how an area such as the north-east of Scotland, which contributes so much to the national economy, can ensure that it gets a fair share of investment in railway and road transport. How can we be sure that the privatisation of the railways takes on board the contribution that the railways can make to both keeping traffic off the roads and encouraging a switch? That does not mean that we do not need investment in roads, but it does mean that we need to make best use of our railway assets. Tourist traffic on the line has considerable potential, and as a result there is a desire to run steam trains on it, but London prices make no sense. The potential for developing tourist services will be apparent only if a Scottish company is entitled to determine the prices in terms of what the Scottish market will bear. At the moment, InterCity in London imposes an absurd price for the locomotive that is out of all proportion to what the market can realistically bear, and that effectively kills off any tourist initiative in the north-east of Scotland before it gets off the ground.

The Bill paves the way for two important privatisation measures, and we shall have ample opportunities to debate them. I hope that Ministers will respond to my points about how coal should be restructured. I hope that they will take on board the practical points for the north-east of Scotland. These are real issues which the public will determine. They will decide whether they believe that the privatisation of British Rail is for the good of the passenger, or simply for the good of those who will make money out of it. 6.10 pm

Mr. Hartley Booth (Finchley) : I rise for the first time in the Chamber to welcome the Bill. The way in which privatisations took place during the 1980s gives us hope that the Bill will prove to be greatly popular with the public. I know, however, that it is exceedingly risky to start any parliamentary career by talking about coal. Disraeli nearly scuppered his chances of a fine career by early speculation in mines. However, anything that can be done to improve the rail service must be good news. I have been impressed by the fairness that has been shown by hon. Members on both sides of the House during the debate, and I have to say, in fairness, that my train was two minutes early this morning.

I come to the Chamber with some modesty. I was experienced as a barrister and I declare an interest--although I have not had briefs for many years from this source--because I represented the National Union of Mineworkers. I have great admiration for miners and I obtained compensation for them for going down pits and getting dust in their lungs as they worked. I have great admiration for the way in which they risked life and limb.

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Whatever else happens as a result of the Bill and the subsequent privatisation Bill--I shall ask my hon. Friend the Minister for certain assurances--I hope that the safety of miners will be assured. I used to sue that great colossus, the National Coal Board, and we now want to take its successor off its pedestal on behalf of miners and on behalf of the public generally. I wish the Bill a good start and a fair wind.

As the new Member for Finchley, it would be wrong of me not to pay a warm tribute to my predecessor. My seat has been kept well and truly warm, if not hot, for the past 33 years. Few could be called to follow greater. In her time, the world respect for Margaret Thatcher was a phenomenon. She gives the lie to those who call

anti-federalists little Englanders. Margaret Thatcher was determined to raise the status of Great Britain and she pushed back the frontiers of socialism with her policies. She was determined to see the United Kingdom have a world role. She wanted to see horizons pushed back across the world for the people of this country. Margaret Thatcher came to the House in 1959 and it might amaze some people that she was here for two years before making her maiden speech. Patience, however, was part of her demeanour. In 1989, she said :

"I am extraordinarily patient providing that I get my own way in the end."

She had the will of an iron lady, but it was married with practicality. In 1986, she said :

"No one would remember the good Samaritan if he had only had good intentions ; he had to have money as well."

Margaret Thatcher was deeply practical. She will be remembered by those who were close to her for her phenomenal energy and amazing hard work. Those who worked closest to her knew that come 1 o'clock in the morning she would be saying, "I get a new lease of life at this time of day." She will be remembered in Finchley for her assiduous hard work. She never turned aside a letter from a constituent, and constituents whom I have met in Finchley were devoted to her. Indeed, there was a feeling of love for Mrs. Thatcher.

Behind Margaret Thatcher was Finchley and the allied place of Friern Barnet, a place of mediaeval origin. Friern Barnet is known not for its culinary past but because of the friars who lived there. Finchley is a constituency which was known ultimately from Australia to Alaska because of its Member. It had the sort of fame that doubtless is now being earned by Huntingdon. The inhabitants of Finchley, whom I am proud to represent, valued their British independence, about which Margaret Thatcher spoke so eloquently in the Chamber. They do not want to be citizens of another country and they want to see our country strong. They certainly do not want orders from another country, but that presages a debate that will take place later in the week. They will value the benefits that will flow from the Bill that is before us if it leads to privatisation. They will value cheaper and better coal production, as they will value better services on the railway.

I seek assurances from my hon. Friend the Minister. First, I want to be assured that part of the programme that will be worked on during the progress of this paving Bill and beyond will permit shares to be owned by miners and others who work in the coal industry. Part of the success of the privatisation programme during the 1980s was that those who drove trucks for the National Freight

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Corporation, for example, were allowed to own part of their trucks as a result of share ownership. I want to see miners have a stake in the mines from which they bring coal.

Secondly, whatever else is done during the process leading towards privatisation, I ask for the assurance that thought will be given to ensuring that Britain has the necessary powers to stop international predatory dumping. Any private coal industry that has to suffer international dumping will be weakened and could be killed. The European Community has powers to stop such dumping and they are useful, but we must look to our national needs.

Thirdly, I ask for an assurance that the new environmental regime that must be considered alongside coal privatisation will not be so draconian that any private sector proposition is immediately snuffed out or killed off. It must not be forgotten, however, that the polluter must pay. We must have a balance, but that must be considered as a package. I hope that we shall be given an assurance that environmental considerations will continue behind the scenes. The House would not be considering the Bill but for my predecessor in Finchley. I look forward to its safe passage and beyond that to the privatisation of the coal industry and British Rail. However, I have a warning for my colleagues on the Government Front Bench. If my hon. Friend the Minister gives the assurances for which I have asked, takes the necessary steps and moves on to privatisation, the process will be so popular that there will be a strong risk that he will have to bear office in a fifth term of Conservative government. 6.19 pm

Mr. Peter Hardy (Wentworth) : It is a great pleasure to follow the hon. Member for Finchley (Mr. Booth). I suspect that not a few Conservative Members, let alone Labour Members, are pleased to see him here. He fulfilled the conventions while also making an interesting speech. As I make my relatively short speech, I hope that Conservative Members will hear a slight echo of one or two of the demands that he made. It is interesting to listen to a Conservative Member who has at least a little knowledge of the mining industry and a significant and welcome concern for it. We look forward to hearing him in future. His speech this afternoon was certainly memorable. The House will be aware of my dominant interest in the mining industry, so I shall not say much about the railway industry. However, it is a bit much for Conservative Members to talk about privatisation resulting in a timely, cheap, comfortable and efficient rail service. We do not have to go far to find wise central Governments who recognise the benefits of efficient, publicly owned railways. France, Germany and Switzerland are models for that. Their Governments have had their supportive arms around the shoulders of their rail industries while the British Government have had our industry by the throat. That is one reason why Conservative Members come up with successive complaints, when in fact they have not perceived who bears the responsibility for the inadequate investment in and the costly fares charged by British Rail.

My main concern is with the coal industry and I want to repeat some of the points raised in the debate. Above all, when the Minister for Energy replies to the debate, I

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want him to assure us that the Government will ensure that there is a long-term future for the coal industry. I want him also to assure us that the contracts that are about to be signed will sustain the industry rather than plunge Britain into a state of energy dependency that results in extensive and ever-rising balance of payments deficits and further bitter blows to mining areas.

We need a guarantee that, even if the industry is to be privatised, and even if the Government wash their hands of it, a viable deep-mine industry will remain in Britain. We need that not only because of the interests of the industry but because, as the Minister should recognise, the mining engineering industry and its related activities face a growing world demand as man scratches ever more deeply into the surface of this planet for mineral resources. If we do not have an adequate home base for the development and sustenance of mining technology, we will throw away important economic opportunities for this country.

We need a substantial and continuing coal industry. It is little use Conservative Members suggesting that miners invest in their pits when, given the precedents of recent years, they would have grounds for real anxiety about that investment. With the Government's encouragement, British Coal invested substantial sums in collieries that were closed only weeks or months later. That has brought a sense of bewilderment and horror to the people in mining constituencies who have witnessed that thwarted intention.

The hon. Member for Finchley referred to mine safety. He may not be aware of this, but I am sponsored by the National Association of Colliery Overmen, Deputies and Shotfirers. Because of his previous experience, he will be aware that that association now has only a small number of members, but they are the men charged not only with the supervision of production underground but with the basic and statutory responsibility for safety. They have made a marked contribution to ensuring that the British mining industry is the safest in the world.

There are those on the Conservative Benches--there may still be some in Hobart house--who were happy with the prospect of the statutory base upon which that safety was built being squandered and turned into a reliance upon a voluntary code with a great deal less force and meaning. Before any further steps are taken on the road to privatisation, the Government must make it clear that that statutory base will not be removed. It must be retained, if only because if it is not, the Government will be seen to be running a coach and horses through the requirements of the Health and Safety at Work, etc. Act 1974.

I do not have time to go into detail on that matter, as others have done in the past, but I trust that the Minister will not lose sight of it. It is of fundamental importance because precedents show that without such a statutory authority and without proper concern, privatisation will mean that more lives are lost and more blood is spilt. That is the price of privatisation that may be placed on the coalfields of Britain.

I want to stress a few other points. First, we need assurances about the concessionary fuel scheme. Secondly, we need assurances about the pension funds. It is a fact that the pension funds in the British mining industry today may be worth more than the industry itself. Although we may get assurances and fine words from Ministers, the fact remains that there are more greedy people around than the Government care to admit. Robert Maxwell was not the

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only one to take an interest in pension funds. There will be greedy people who will recognise the vast size of the pension funds in the mining industry. Maxwell's actions have given rise to genuine anxiety and we need to be sure that there are absolute and clear structures of protection to prevent greedy people--who are more likely to support the Minister and his hon. Friends than Labour Members--from running riot through the pension funds of the mining industry.

There has already been a passing reference to the fact that, if the mining industry is sold for the sort of figure that the Treasury perceives to be likely under the estimates of public income and expenditure, unless there is a system that separates the ownership of the coal from the ownership of the industry, the Government may adopt the most prodigal and profligate attitude witnessed in modern times. On the basis of the Treasury calculations, if the coal is sold together with the mining industry, it would mean that the Government would be disposing of the country's coal reserves for 2p or 3p a tonne. Even in these days when people seem to believe that nuclear power, gas and oil should have priority, it would be scandalous for the country's coal reserves to be treated so flagrantly and irresponsibly.

Adequate attention must be paid to those matters and also to the needs of the country. People need to be shown that the Government are taking the privatisation of the mining industry rather more seriously than they did some of the previous privatisations, when the people were softened by skilled television presentations. The prices were increased in advance to falsify the prosperity and the profitability of those industries.

We need evidence and information. As I said to the Secretary of State in an intervention, perhaps this is not the time to expect the Government to give detailed information about their plans. I trust that the House will be given an ample opportunity to consider seriously and properly all the matters that I mentioned before any final decisions are made. As matters stand, and bearing in mind the Government's record, the decisions that we fear are likely to come from the Department of Trade and Industry will not be welcome on this side of the House.

Although the Government claim to have a mandate, the Minister for Energy must confess that it has not been provided by the constituencies that my right hon. and hon. Friends and I represent. 6.29 pm

Mr. Raymond S. Robertson (Aberdeen, South) : Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, for allowing me to catch your eye, so that I may address the House for the first time. It is a tremendous privilege to be here as the new Member of Parliament for Aberdeen, South. It is with great pride that I take my seat as a new Scottish Member of Parliament--and on this occasion if no other, right hon. and hon. Members may allow me to remind them that, yes, I am also a new Scottish Conservative Member of Parliament.

Right hon. and hon. Members who know Aberdeen and Aberdonians will not be surprised to learn that Aberdeen, South is back in the Conservative fold. Mine is a diverse constituency of many contrasts. It has captured the old and blended it uniquely with the new. It can boast a magnificant past, and look forward to a bright and formidable future. My constituency has, sadly, seen in recent times the end of some of its traditional industries,

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such as shipbuilding and deep sea fishing, but it has not been frightened to reach out and to embrace new industries. Most notable among them are the oil and oil support industries. Aberdeen, South had adapted to change in a dynamic and positive way. The Aberdeen that stands on the threshold of a new century is one of which its forefathers would have been justifiably proud.

My constituency covers the southern part of that great city stretching from western end down to its commercial hub, to the beach, and to Pittodrie--the home of Aberdeen football club. It takes in world-famous Union street, and extends across the River Dee to its southern boundary. Beyond that is the North sea. It includes Aberdeen's buoyant international harbour, which, since a Conservative Government had the courage to abolish the national dock labour scheme in 1989, has enjoyed some of its best years ever.

I am well aware that most new Members of Parliament are haunted by the ghosts of their predecessors. I am not so much haunted by the ghosts of Members of Parliament past as plagued by their reincarnations. I arrived here to find myself elected president of one of the House's most exclusive and select dining clubs. I refer to that patronised also by former Members of Parliament for Aberdeen, South who are still Members of Parliament. Its membership is cross-party and includes the hon. Member for Glasgow, Garscadden (Mr. Dewar), who represented my constituency between 1966 and 1970 ; my hon. Friend the Member for Harwich (Mr. Sproat), who spoke earlier, and who is the longest-serving member of the club--having sat for Aberdeen, South from 1970 to 1983 ; and my hon. Friend the Member for Winchester (Mr. Malone), who has just arrived, who served the constituency from 1983 to 1987.

I should not be too unkind about my hon. Friend the Member for Winchester, because it has been said to me often that greater love hath no man than this : that he loses his seat so that his friend can win it back. My right hon. and hon. Friends will be pleased to know that membership of that exclusive club is now closed, because I intend to remain its newest recruit for a long time.

Apart from existing Members of Parliament who once represented Aberdeen, South, I must make mention of my immediate predecessor, Frank Doran. I want to thank him on behalf of my constituents for his time as their Member of Parliament, when he represented them in the House and worked on their behalf outside it. It would be wrong and totally insincere of me to wish Frank Doran well politically, but I do so at a personal level. Perhaps his former boss, the hon. Member for Holborn and St. Pancras (Mr. Dobson), will convey my best wishes to Frank Doran.

Aberdeen's wealth and prosperity is very much based on the oil and gas industry. The rapid expansion of that and related industries has brought tremendous benefits to the city and to its people. Oil, in common with coal, is one of this country's most precious natural resources. Unlike coal, however, it is relatively new on the British scene. It is little more than 25 years ago that the first significant discoveries of North sea oil and gas were made. Few then could have expected or predicted what would follow--and if they had, even fewer would have believed them.

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In just over a quarter of a century, the United Kingdom has become one of the world's biggest producers of offshore oil and gas, creating 100,000 jobs. In the 1990s, North sea oil continues to be an outstanding success story for Britain and free enterprise. The unprecedented investment in, and expansion of, the United Kingdom continental shelf over the past 10 years occurred because the Government allowed the private sector to get to work and to get on with it. I say to Opposition Members who are fearful of a privatised coal industry that they should not be. The challenges may seem great, but so, too, are the opportunities.

Much concern has been expressed, rightly, and will continue to be expressed about the danger of coal mining and the industry's inherent risks. Unlike coal, the greatest obstacle that our oil and gas industry has to overcome is nature itself. The North sea can boast--if that is the right word--some of the most hostile and treacherous conditions anywhere in the world. They are not easy for most of us to imagine--waves up to 80 ft high, freezing air temperatures, thick fog blankets falling at any time, and wild gusts and violent storms daily. In any one year, 250 days will be officially designated as bad.

Those who work in such conditions day after day deserve the highest praise. Just as the North sea is a vibrant, healthy, free enterprise success, so, too, can be the coalfields of Britain. As the Government get down to the detailed job of returning coal to the private sector, I urge them to consider operating a licensing system similar to that which operates in the North sea. I agree with the hon. Member for Gordon (Mr. Bruce) that our traditional coal industry should learn a trick or two from its younger offshore brother.

Private enterprise never flourishes unless the right climate is created by the Government--and they have unquestionably done so in the North sea through their licensing policy. Such an imaginative scheme can do the same for a private coal industry. The purpose of a licensing policy is fourfold, and can be directly translated from the oil fields of the North sea to the coalfields of Britain. A licensing policy enables companies to compete and to operate commercially ; ensures that exploration is undertaken thoroughly, expeditiously, and--most importantly--safely ; maximises the economic exploitation of resources ; and ensures that a fair share of financial and economic benefits of exploration is enjoyed by the entire nation.

Such a regime, translated from oil to coal, can give this country's proud coal industry a second chance and a very real future. It will enable the industry to look forward to the next century with new-found confidence.

6.38 pm

Mr. Keith Hill (Streatham) : I congratulate the hon. Member for Aberdeen, South (Mr. Robinson) on the fluency of his maiden speech. I rise with a sense of awe and history to make my own maiden speech. Since its creation as a separate seat in 1918, Streatham has always been represented by Conservative Members of Parliament. On 9 April 1992, for the first time ever, Streatham elected a Labour Member of Parliament. The voters of Streatham made a little bit of history that day. Interestingly, it was made in the London borough of Lambeth. Among my many distinguished predecessors, perhaps the most notable was the late Lord Duncan-Sandys, who

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was in his time the holder of nine ministerial offices--all but one as a Cabinet member. It is said of Duncan Sandys, no doubt apocryphally, that he was not the most assiduous attender of his constituency. The story goes that he was once upbraided by a junior member of the local Conservative association, to whom he majestically replied, "Young man, I was elected to represent Streatham at Westminster-- not Westminster at Streatham."

I hasten to add that no such charge could be levelled against my immediate predecessor, Sir William Shelton--to whom I willingly pay tribute. Sir William--or Bill Shelton, as he was universally known in Streatham--was Member of Parliament for part or the whole of the Streatham constituency for 22 years. Among the literally thousands of Streatham residents whom I met before and during the general election, I found a deep recognition and appreciation of his work for the constituency. The result of the election in Streatham was a reflection of political and demographical change ; it was in no sense a judgment on his record of service. I intend to maintain the high standard set by Bill Shelton during my stewardship of the Streatham constituency.

The constituency, embracing as it does communities in Balham, Brixton, Clapham and Streatham itself, may truly be said to represent the heart of London south of the river. It is a constituency of great variety, ranging from the inner city to the tree-lined streets of the suburbs--pluralist, multi-ethnic, in considerable demographic flux and with a dynamic population full of potential. That potential, I regret to say, is now under great stress and strain.

In the Streatham constituency as a whole, unemployment currently stands at almost twice the national average. The impact of the recession is nowhere better signposted than in the increasingly derelict condition of our major shopping and recreational area--Streatham hill and Streatham high road, once known by Streathamites as the west end of south London. Now, no fewer than 50 of its shops stand empty ; a year ago, there were 30. It is a sad irony that the only new building to appear in Streatham high road in recent years is Wentworth house, our local jobcentre.

The recession has torn the heart out of what was once a busy and thriving community. Locally, we are not willing to resign ourselves to inevitable decline. Under the auspices of the Streatham Association, which brings together local traders and of which I am the newly elected president, we shall continue to explore every avenue to bring businesses back to the high road--and especially to the site formerly occupied by the John Lewis company, whose departure was such a tremendous blow to our locality.

Central Government, however, must also accept their

responsibilities. Partly as a result of the recession, but for other reasons too, the entire Streatham constituency is increasingly taking on the character of an inner-city area. I therefore give notice that, in this Parliament, I shall be pressing for an extension of the urban programme beyond the present boundary set by Government at the A205 south circular road. The statistics of decline, deprivation and distress warrant such an extension, and that demand unites all political parties in the constituency.

Nevertheless, it is clear that the core of deprivation lies in the Brixton area of the constituency. In our town hall ward, unemployment ranges between 20 and 25 per cent., much of it long term ; among young men, the figure is much higher. The Brixton area also ranks high on all the

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other standard indicators of deprivation-- homelessness, poor housing and overcrowding, low incomes and poor health. For too long, we have heard expressions of concern for the condition of the inner city which have been followed up by all too little action.

I am only too well aware of the recent political history of Lambeth council. Lambeth has been easy meat, and doubtless still presents a few choice targets for Ministers ; but I believe that the new administration in the borough is making genuine efforts to turn things around. I very much hope that Ministers will recognise that change, and not succumb to the temptation to play political games for short-term political advantage.

The trouble with punishing the politicians is that the people are punished as well. There must be a constructive relationship between central Government and local authorities, and between the public and private sectors, to improve the conditions of the inner city. Central Government now have the chance to signal a new and positive approach.

Last week, Lambeth presented its impressive City Challenge bid. That bid is supported not only by the police and local community organisations, but by major private-sector concerns--BAT Industries plc, P and O Developments Limited, ICL, Higgs and Hill and Laing. In the past few days, Regalian Homes has also lent its support to the bid. Those companies want to do business in Brixton. They have confidence in its future, and they want to work with the local authority. The Government have a unique opportunity to boost the prospects for both enterprise and social improvement in this inner-city area, and I hope that they will grasp that opportunity. I now turn to the substance of the debate. I must declare my interest as a Member of Parliament sponsored by the National Union of Rail, Maritime and Transport Workers. Efficient transport links are vital to the well-being of an overwhelmingly commuter constituency like Streatham ; that such links are not efficient is the daily experience of my constituents and of most Londoners. The CBI has estimated that the London economy loses £1 billion a year as result of the inadequacies of our transport system, and all the current signs are that the position will get worse rather than better. With what strikes me as staggering complacency, the Department of Transport has forecast that traffic on Britain's roads will increase by between 83 per cent. and 142 per cent. by the year 2025, with London taking its full share. That forecast beggars the imagination : it just cannot be managed. It conjures up a future of super-jams on our roads in an ever more polluted city environment. Clearly, we need a strategy aimed at creating a modern public transport system that will attract car users off the roads.

One part of that strategy, incidentally, must be to add further tube lines to the notoriously sparse underground network in south London. We in Streatham expect to be high on the list, with the extension of the tube line to our area which has been promised by London Transport since 1926. No such strategy exists, however : indeed, there is now a super-jam in the projects that might have formed the beginnings of that strategy. There is no money for Crossrail ; Thameslink 2000 has been stopped ; the east London line has been stopped ; and, to say the least, there is now a major question mark over Olympia and York's Jubilee line.

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So what is on offer to Londoners? The answer appears to be bus deregulation and red routes. In the past six years, bus deregulation has produced a massive drop in the number of bus passengers ; that is hardly an encouraging omen for London. While speed and traffic volume are the only criteria for red routes, there is justifiable anxiety about their damaging effect on local businesses, and about their role in splitting up communities and increasing pollution and road accidents.

In Streatham, we are also threatened with the red-routeing of our high road. We believe that a sensible compromise is possible, and I hope that the Department of Transport will be willing to listen to our arguments. We believe, however, that the interests of the neighbourhood must come first.

Speaking candidly, I have little confidence that the proposals foreshadowed in the Bill will assist the plight of rail commuters in my constituency. I seriously doubt whether my constituents can look forward to a 17.10 Virgin service, all stations to Streatham hill, or to a 17.40 Stagecoach service, all stations to Streatham common--much less to the provision of such services in off-peak periods. Moreover, I somehow doubt that Virgin and Stagecoach will be very enthusiastic about laying on less profitable off- peak services on major InterCity routes.

Nevertheless, some method of franchising is to be expected, and it will be necessary to secure proper guarantees in regard to safety, staff training and the retention of through-ticketing facilities. It remains to be seen just how far the Government will succeed with their franchising plans and with their more ambitious scheme for the widespread privatisation of rail services. Neither approach, however, promises to deal with the kernel of the problem--the need in this country to reach the levels of investment in rail services and other forms of public transport that have been maintained over very many years by our partners elsewhere in Europe. Sooner or later, the Government will have to bite the bullet of sustained higher investment in rail.

There is, however, an additional route to increased investment--the route of co-operation between the public and private sector, discussed earlier in the debate but described in detail by my hon. Friend the Member for Kingston upon Hull, East (Mr. Prescott) in his especially important speech on 11 July 1991 in this House, in which he set out a new financial framework for the railways, drawing upon the French experience of co- operation between SNCF and the French banking system. As a trading company in the public sector, there is a special case to be made out for British Rail.

I hope that the Government are still ready to look seriously at those proposals. Throughout my speech, I have tried to argue that partnership between central Government and local government, between the public and the private sector, must act as the motor of economic and social progress. Such partnerships have amply demonstrated their success in other economies and other societies. They ought now to be allowed the scope to succeed also in our country.

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6.51 pm

Mr. George Kynoch (Kincardine and Deeside) : Thank you for calling me, Mr. Deputy Speaker, and giving me the opportunity to address the House for the first time. I congratulate the hon. Member for Streatham (Mr. Hill) on an exceedingly articulate and fluent maiden speech. I look forward to debating many issues with him in the forthcoming years. I am not sure that I can guarantee how long that will be for him on his side of the House, but it will certainly be for as many years as I can manage on this side.

I congratulate you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, on pronouncing my name correctly. Since I came to the House, everybody has been incredibly kind and helpful, but the one thing that has caused some problems has been the pronunciation of my name. More often than not, I am afraid that the pronunciation has been mistaken for that of the Leader of the Opposition. I am not sure whether that has been an advantage or a disadvantage for me. However, when I told people that I came from Kincardine and Deeside, all was revealed and everybody was happy. I pay tribute to my immediate predecessor, Nicol Stephen. He was a Member for Parliament for only four or five months, yet during that time I know that his constituents in Kincardine and Deeside very much appreciated the amount of work and effort that he put in on their behalf. I hope that his colleagues will convey his constituents' thanks to him.

It would be wrong of me not to mention his predecessor, Alick Buchanan- Smith, who served this House for 27 years, first as Member for Parliament for North Angus and Mearns and then as the Member of Parliament for Kincardine and Deeside. I know that the respect in which he was held in all parts of the House, by all sides of the political spectrum--in Scotland in particular--and throughout the United Kingdom meant that his sad death last year caused a lot of sorrow and led to a major loss to British politics. I am pleased to be able to pay tribute to his widow, Jan, whom I must thank personally for the tremendous help, assistance, guidance and encouragement that she gave me over the last few months.

Kincardine and Deeside stretches from the south-west corner of Aberdeen city out through the dormitory towns that house many of the employees who work in Aberdeen, associated with either oil, or oil-related industries, and along the most beautiful valley of the River Dee, then on past Banchory, Ballater and Balmoral castle to Braemar and down to the ski slopes of Glenshee. It stretches south from Aberdeen through Stonehaven to the fishing ports of Gourdon and Johnshaven and inland to Laurencekirk and the Mearns where agriculture is the main industry. Kincardine and Deeside is arguably the most beautiful constituency in Britain. I am privileged to stand here today and represent all its electors.

The constituency has benefited significantly from the last years of Conservative government. A measure of that is the recent unemployment figures. Unemployment in Kincardine and Deeside stands at 1,306. In 1987 that figure was 3,289. There has been a drop of 60 per cent. in unemployment. Conservative policies have worked well for the constituency of Kincardine and Deeside. The major industries are oil and oil-related industries, tourism, fishing, agriculture and the small businesses associated with each of those industries. It is appropriate, therefore, that I should be speaking in a debate concerning rail

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transport in particular. Communications and transport are of prime importance not just to the north-east of Scotland but to Scotland as a whole.

I concur with some of the comments made by the hon. Member for Gordon (Mr. Bruce) regarding rail transport in the north-east. The beginning of Stagecoach's involvement in the service south from Aberdeen is a step in the right direction : to provide the service that the customer wants. We are trying to provide a flexible, targeted service that meets customers' requirements.

I know of two instances where nationalised industries have not worked. Before British Airways was privatised, it ran an air service between Inverness and London. I remember being visited by a senior local manager of British Airways and asked why, as a local business man, I did not use its service. I was told that it was perfectly tailored to the business man : that I could do a fine day's work in London, using British Airways, which timed the aeroplane to leave Inverness at 9.30 am. That meant that one did not reach central London until midday. The return flight left London for Inverness at 5 pm, which meant that one had to leave central London at about 3 pm. That is not providing a service targeted at the customer. The air route made losses for British Airways, yet, when it was taken over by Dan-Air, it did a marketing job and filled its aeroplanes. Dan-Air now provides a service that leaves Inverness at 6.50 am. One can therefore be in central London by 9.30 am. Furthermore, one does not have to leave central London until 6 pm. That is what I believe bringing private enterprise and private involvement into transport is all about.

Another example has been mentioned--Japanese railways. In my business life, I have been to Japan several times during the last few years. What is commonly known as the bullet train but what is properly called the Shinkansen runs on the main line between Tokyo and Osaka. That train comes into a perfectly clean station, exactly on time, to the second--and I mean to the second. It pulls out, exactly on time, to the second. It pulls up at the platform at a predetermined mark, so one knows exactly where one will be getting into the train.

That is private involvement alongside public involvement in a transport system, yet the competition in Japan is producing a service that is second to none. If, however, British Rail intends to emulate the Japanese, I suggest that it should realise that the one thing that the Shinkansen does not do very well is to provide comfortable seats. Unfortunately, they are tailored more for the Japanese body than for the slightly larger Western frame.

Before ending, it would be wrong and strange if I did not mention the electrification of the line between Edinburgh and Aberdeen. I understand the hon. Member for Gordon being slightly upset about no mention being made of electrification north of Edinburgh. Having been involved in business, I know that such a project cannot be carried out without a proper feasibility study. As the Bill is passing through the House, we should ensure that ScotRail gets on with a feasibility study rather than waiting, as it is, until the study of the line north of Glasgow is completed. What relevance does that have to the line north of Edinburgh? I ask my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Transport seriously to put pressure on ScotRail to get that feasibility study going, because it wold be an added benefit if it were completed before considering franchising the rail service or involving private enterprise.

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The Bill is good for Scotland and for my constituency and I commend it to the House.

7.1 pm

Mr. Paddy Tipping (Sherwood) : The House should know of the excellent productivity standards that the new Minister for Energy has set himself. He caused some consternation last week when he visited the Nottinghamshire coalfield for the first time and decided that he was going to go down two collieries in one day. Given that excellent record, I hope that he witnessed at first-hand the productivity of the Nottinghamshire coalfield.

Last year, six of the Nottinghamshire group's 15 pits produced more than 1 million tonnes, and all set new productivity records. British Coal in Nottinghamshire made a substantial operating profit last year, rumoured to be about £80 million. In addition, 17.2 million tonnes of coal was produced at a cost of £5.26 per man shift in Nottinghamshire. That was a 64 per cent. improvement compared with 1985, when it sold coal at £42.60 a tonne ; this year, it is doing so at only £42.93 a tonne. At the same time, electricity prices have risen by 45 per cent. The basic price of coal has remained steady, but the price of electricity has increased by almost half. The Minister, as a productive man, must recognise those impressive productivity records. One wonders, therefore, why there is a drive to privatisation. The British coal industry is the most productive in Europe. It produces coal at half the cost of the German industry. All over Europe, people think that we are crazy to be closing our collieries.

The Government's policy on the coal industry seems to be driven by dogma and by a belief that private is good and public is bad. What other industrial sector in Britain or Europe can speak of such productivity increases? I hope that the Minister listened carefully to the voices of the coal industry in Nottinghamshire.

Perhaps what is important to the Government is not productivity but opening up the marketplace. In reality, the marketplace in energy has never been as open as it is today. Coal competes with gas, which competes with nuclear and all compete against cheap imported coal. Those associated with the coal industry ask for a level market and a policy by which coal has the same advantages as gas and nuclear. The plan to privatise the coal industry is an empty prospectus because the reality is that there is nothing to privatise. The industry will have no shape until the pressing problem of the new contracts between British Coal and the generators is resolved. The Secretary of State for Trade and Industry has a reputation as an interventionist. Now is the time to intervene to maintain a prosperous coal industry in Nottinghamshire and across the country. In the current year, British Coal will supply 65 million tonnes to the generators. There is a rumour of a new contract for only 25 million tonnes. It is clear that the generators--National Power and PowerGen--want a low-volume, short-term contract. Why, then, can gas generators have contracts for 15 years? The Minister should intervene in the discussions between British Coal and the power generators and argue forcefully for a high-volume, long-term contract. He has the power and the muscle to do so, because 40 per cent. of both

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