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Mrs. Shephard : The taxpayers have every right to expect good value for money from programmes designed for unemployed people. I should like to reasssure my hon. Friend that we are already providing a wider variety of help than ever before through employment and training programmes to get long-term unemployed people back to work. That includes, of course, help for unemployed people to improve their skills on employment action, and I hope that that reassures my hon. Friend.
Mr. Battle : Given that the Treasury today announced that it has revised the estimate of economic growth down to 0.5 per cent., is not the implication that at least 3.5 million real people will be unemployed by Christmas? Will not that be a drain on the nation's resources that none of her schemes will tackle?
Mrs. Shephard : What is certain is that if the Labour party had been elected, with its wholly unrealistic economic policies, that total would have been reached and passed.
Mr. Rathbone : Will my right hon. Friend consider the particular difficulty of people who left school at 16, went through training and into a job but who, through no fault of their own, now find themselves unemployed? There seems to be a gap in benefits for them.
Mrs. Shephard : Entitlement to benefit, as my hon. Friend will know, is a matter for my right hon. Friend the
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Secretary of State for Social Security, but there are special arrangements for young people who find themselves in the circumstances that my hon. Friend describes.Industrial Hazards
14. Mr. Tony Lloyd : To ask the Secretary of State for Employment how many establishments are required to register under the Control of Industrial Major Hazards Regulations 1989.
Mr. McLoughlin : As at 31 December 1991, a total of 289 establishments had been notified to the Health and Safety Executive as "top -tier" sites under the Control of Industrial Major Accident Hazards Regulations 1984.
Mr. Lloyd : Will the Minister confirm that such sites could represent the highest potential risk to public safety? Will he also confirm that the Health and Safety Executive has been incredibly dilatory in assessing the real level of risk in those places? Does he intend to communicate directly with the HSE to ensure that a proper assessment is made and that public safety is assured?
Mr. McLoughlin : I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman. He is correct to mention the HSE's diligence in carrying out its duties under the regulations. I shall pass on the hon. Gentleman's comments, and he can be sure that the Government will ensure that the HSE carries out its obligations.
Mr. Simon Coombs : Will my hon. Friend take this opportunity to congratulate HSE inspectors around the country on their work with hazardous substances in very hazardous circumstances? Are they not worthy of the highest praise, rather than the criticism that we hear too often from the Opposition?
Mr. McLoughlin : Indeed they are. Most people who come into contact with the HSE and its inspectors are very impressed by the professional way in which they carry out their work.
Mr. Cryer : Is the Minister satisfied that there are sufficient health and safety inspectors in post to ensure that all the major hazard sites--and, indeed, all the minor hazard sites--are inspected and properly assessed because, as he knows, many small factories are not inspected for many years at a time due to the grave shortage of qualified inspectors? Are the Government going to do something about that?
Mr. McLoughlin : I go part of the way with the hon. Gentleman. It is right that some of the bigger sites have safety in mind in relation to their responsibilities to the community and to their employees and that care must be taken at some smaller sites. However, I am confident that there are enough inspectors to carry out the work.
Women Workers
15. Mrs. Gorman : To ask the Secretary of State for Employment if she has any plans to accommodate the special needs of women at work.
Mrs. Gillian Shephard : I will look at a range of issues relating to the needs of women at work with the help of the new working group which I announced on 20 May.
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Mrs. Gorman : Can my hon. Friend confirm that almost half the work force in Britain now comprises women and that in many areas of the country the new industries which are replacing the old industries are especially suitable for women? Does she agree with a publication out this week on equal opportunities, which states that women's criteria in working are often quite different from those of men? Women value part-time work and flexibility more than high wages and security of employment. It is, therefore, extremely important that we resist pressure from the European Community to make the conditions of work for men apply to women.
Mrs. Shephard : I believe that my hon. Friend is referring to the report published yesterday by the Institute of Economic Affairs. I have not yet had time to consider that report. However, I remind my hon. Friend that the authors are mostly American and that their experiences and views may well be coloured by the American experience of positive discrimination legislation, which is unlawful in this country. However, I agree that women and men benefit from a flexible labour market and especially from the opportunity of job sharing and part-time work in the way that my hon. Friend describes.
PRIME MINISTER
Engagements
Q1. Mr. Campbell-Savours : To ask the Prime Minister if he will list his official engagements for Tuesday 9 June.
The Lord President of the Council and Leader of the House of Commons (Mr. Tony Newton): I have been asked to reply
My right hon. Friend the Prime Minister is visiting Colombia to have discussions with President Gaviria on a wide range of issues. He will carry out other official duties including an inspection of an anti-narcotics police training school.
Mr. Campbell-Savours : Is the Leader of the House aware of the major argument that broke out in Rio de Janeiro last night at the Earth summit between my hon. Friend the Member for Cynon Valley (Mrs. Clwyd), Labour's spokeswoman for overseas development, and Baroness Chalker, the Minister, on the £10 billion decline in the Government's aid programme over the past 13 years? Will he confirm that when the Prime Minister told the House last week that over the past 13 years since the fall of the Labour Government, there has been a real increase in overseas aid as a proportion of gross domestic product, he was wrong, he was in error, and had not done his homework?
Mr. Newton : I cannot say that I have had a detailed blow-by-blow account of the conversation in Rio last night. What I do know is that underlying my right hon. Friend's statement last week is the fact that we spent more than £1.8 billion in the past financial year--an increase of 4.7 per cent. in real terms over the previous year. Our aid is planned to continue to grow in real terms to almost £2 billion in 1994-95. I also hope that the hon. Gentleman will point out to his right hon. Friend the Leader of the Opposition, who claimed that we had cut by half our aid
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to third-world countries, that our aid has gone up from £727 million to more than £1.8 billion in the past financial year.Mrs. Lait : Does my right hon. Friend agree that the new common agricultural policy agreement led by the British Government is advantageous to the British consumer, fair to the British farmer and is likely to break the deadlock at the general agreement on tariffs and trade talks?
Mr. Newton : I very much agree with my hon. Friend that the agreement is not only very advantageous to this country and to the sensible development of agricultural policies in Europe, since it reduces the burden of the CAP on consumers by £8 billion for the Community as a whole, but it will help to restore the credibility of the Community in the GATT negotiations and will make a settlement of those negotiations, devoutly desired by hon. Members of all parties, more likely.
Q2. Mr. Hanson : To ask the Prime Minister if he will list his official engagements for Tuesday 9 June.
Mr. Newton : I have been asked to reply.
I refer the hon. Gentleman to the reply that I gave some moments ago.
Mr. Hanson : Is the Leader of the House aware that since privatisation the number of water cut-offs has trebled, and that in Wales it has increased even further? Is he further aware that since privatisation the salaries and bonuses of water company chairmen have risen by 290 per cent., and that in Wales they have risen by 211 per cent? Is that not a case of Tory policy making the rich richer and the poor poorer? Will the right hon. Gentleman today take the opportunity to condemn the water companies for their actions, and will he put pressure on the authorities to take steps in this regard?
Mr. Newton : What I am aware of is that, largely as a result of the inaction of the previous Labour Government-- [Interruption.]
Madam Speaker : Order. This is a waste of precious time.
Mr. Newton : And-- [Interruption.]
Madam Speaker : Order. The House must come to order and hear what the Leader of the House has to say.
Mr. Newton : And the-- [Interruption.]
Madam Speaker : Order. It is now my turn. Will the House please come to order, so that at least I can hear what the Leader of the House has to say?
Mr. Newton : What I am aware of is that, as a result of long neglect of water investment under the previous Administration, there has been a considerable need to improve investment in supply and water quality. Since privatisation, the level of water investment has doubled, and it has more than doubled since five years before privatisation.
Q3. Dr. Goodson-Wickes : To ask the Prime Minister if he will list his official engagements for Tuesday 9 June.
Mr. Newton : I have been asked to reply.
I refer my hon. Friend to the reply that I gave some moments ago.
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Dr. Goodson-Wickes : Will my right hon. Friend join me in welcoming the first-ever visit by a serving Prime Minister of this country to any country in South America? Does not our right hon. Friend the Prime Minister's choice of Colombia for his first port of call give us an opportunity to endorse our historical, if somewhat neglected, links with that country ; to thank it for its support during the Falklands war ; and to promote further co-operation in our joint efforts to fight the menace of drug trafficking?Mr. Newton : I agree with my hon. Friend. This first-ever visit by a serving British Prime Minister to a South American country is indeed very welcome : it reflects the factors mentioned by my hon. Friend, and provides a further opportunity to enhance the already close co-operation that exists between this country and Colombia in combating the drugs menace.
Mr. Hattersley : Can the Leader of the House confirm that information given to newspapers yesterday by the Foreign Office that Britain is attempting to negotiate a protocol to the Maastricht treaty, to prepare the House for a resubmission of the Maastricht Bill?
Mr. Newton : What I can tell the right hon. Gentleman is that the possibility to which he has referred is clearly one among a range of others that can sensibly be considered in the uncertain circumstances that have followed the Danish referendum. [Interruption.]
Mr. Newton : I was giving the right hon. Gentleman, I hope, a straightforward and clear-cut answer-- [Interruption.]
Mr. Newton : As my right hon. Friend the Foreign Secretary made clear in his statement yesterday, it is obviously necessary, following the Danish referendum last week--this is acknowledged on all sides--to look at all possible ways of moving forward in the wake of the Danish decision. What I indicated in the early part of my remarks does no more than confirm that one of the possibilities which can clearly be considered, but without commitment at this stage, is that to which the right hon. Gentleman referred.
Mr. Hattersley : It is indeed a strange Government who are categorical to newspapers on one day and evasive to the House of Commons on the next. Does the Leader of the House understand that the time has gone when progress can be made on the Maastricht Bill by contrivance and manipulation? There are many of us on both sides of the House, long- standing enthusiasts for European unity-- [Interruption.]
Mr. Hattersley : There are many of us on both sides of sides of the House, long-standing enthusiasts for European unity, who will support progress only of a Bill that is clear, honest and comprehensive and which includes those parts of the treaty most of benefit to the British people, and that specifically includes the social chapter.
Mr. Newton : There is a slight contrast, I think, between what the right hon. Gentleman is telling us this afternoon and what his right hon. Friend the Member for
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Manchester, Gorton (Mr. Kaufman) appeared to tell us yesterday afternoon, which was that he was both for and against the treaty, depending upon what happened in other quarters. The British Government's position is absolutely clear and entirely in line with what I said a few moments ago ; that is, that it is necessary, not simply for one country--this one--but for 12, including not least the Danes, to consider the position created by the events of last week and to look at various ways forward from there. That is a sensible policy and it is absurd for the right hon. Gentleman to pretend that there is a simple, neat and immediate answer.Mr. Cormack : Does my right hon. Friend agree that there are few less agreeable sights than that of a pack of greedy voyeurs on the make? Will he please convey the good wishes of the House to the Prince and Princess of Wales, our thanks for their past services and hopes for their future happiness?
Mr. Newton : My hon. Friend will understand that I would not wish to be drawn into comment on the stories that have been appearing in the press, but there will be very widespread support in all parts of the House for the comments made by the Press Complaints Commission yesterday. As my hon. Friend knows, our right hon. and learned Friend the Secretary of State for National Heritage will take into account the views of the Press Complaints Commission in his forthcoming review of press self-regulation, which is due to start in July. He will have the support of the whole House in doing precisely that.
North Atlantic Treaty
Q4. Dr. Godman : To ask the Prime Minister if it is the intention of Her Majesty's Government to initiate discussions at the forthcoming NATO ministerial meeting in Oslo on matters relating to article 4 and article 12 of the North Atlantic treaty ; and if he will make a statement.
Mr. Newton : I have been asked to reply.
Articles 4 and 12 of the North Atlantic treaty were not discussed. But the North Atlantic Council communique , copies of which have been placed in the Library, made it clear that NATO was prepared to support peacekeeping activities on a case-by-case basis under the auspices of the conference on security and co-operation in Europe.
Dr. Godman : With reference to article 4 of the treaty, and more specifically paragraph 17 of United Nations resolution 757, will the Leader of the House confirm that NATO forces will not be employed in a peacekeeping role in the former republic of Yugoslavia except with the unanimous agreement of the 16 nations which comprise NATO and under the specific command of the United Nations? If such a role is even to be considered, will Her Majesty's Government press the case for the command structure to be European, rather than American-led?
Mr. Newton : The hon. Gentleman will appreciate that work is in progress within the alliance to establish precisely how and under what conditions NATO might undertake peacekeeping activity on behalf of or under CSCE auspices. Clearly, the expectation is that such activity would be conducted in consultation with our European partners in that organisation.
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Points of Order
Madam Speaker : Before we move on to public business, I must hear a point of order from Mrs. Jackson.
Mrs. Helen Jackson (Sheffield, Hillsborough) : On a point of order, Madam Speaker. I should be grateful if you would advise the House whether it is in order for the Member of Parliament of a neighbouring constituency- -Sheffield, Hallam in this case--to, in the words of my constituents,
"be very involved and helpful"
in advising them how to go about presenting a petition to the Prime Minister on Thursday without any reference to me as constituency Member of Parliament. He has done so to the extent that my constituents now understand that the only way to obtain a favourable decision from the Secretary of State for Education on an application for grant-maintained status or against the closure of a school is to have the petition presented by a Conservative Member.
Madam Speaker : The hon. Lady-- [Interruption.] Order. I have a point of order to answer, and that I am going to do. The hon. Lady knows that that it is not a question of order, but she also knows that it is a matter of the convention of the House. I say clearly that if, for any reason, a Member has cause to take up a matter that affects another Member's constituency, it is the established practice in the House to inform that Member.
While I am on my feet, may I say this in general for the benefit of Members of long-standing and, in particular, for the benefit of new Members? In the heated atmosphere of this place, the common courtesies are far too often neglected. [Interruption.] Order ; I am speaking. It is essential that the established courtesies be maintained for the sake of good working relationships in this Chamber and in the House in general. I hope that that is taken to heart by every Member, whether new or of long-standing. I shall now move on to public business.
Dame Elaine Kellett-Bowman (Lancaster) : On a point of order, Madam Speaker. This is an entirely different and uncontentious point of order. Today and yesterday prayers began at 2.29 pm. This may seem a small point, but sometimes those of us who are regular attenders at prayers time it to the last minute and we would have been excluded today and yesterday, and several times last week. Could the matter be looked into?
Madam Speaker : If the hon. Lady is saying that occasionally I stride out too rapidly in the Speaker's procession, I will take it into consideration.
Mr. D. N. Campbell-Savours (Workington) : On a point of order, Madam Speaker. In Question Time you will have heard the hon. Member for Welwyn Hatfield (Mr. Evans) refer to unemployed people as "layabouts". You know that many millions of people in this country are unemployed and have no alternative but to watch television in the afternoon. They will have seen him make that statement and will be deeply distressed. Will you from the Chair refute that suggestion and make it clear that that is not the view of the majority of Members?
Madam Speaker : That sounds like an extension of Question Time, and I shall certainly not allow the Chair to get involved in that. All Members are responsible for the
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statements that they make, and I hope that in making them they will be guarded and courteous to each other and to people outside the House.Mr. David Winnick (Walsall, North) : On a point of order-- Mr. Paul Flynn (Newport, West) rose--
Madam Speaker : Order. Two hon. Members are on their feet at the same time. I call Mr. Winnick.
Mr. Winnick : You spoke about common courtesy, Madam Speaker. The House has a responsibility for all citizens. People who find themselves unemployed and who are victims of Government policy--
Madam Speaker : Order. Please come to the point for me.
Mr. Winnick : If a section of the community has been attacked, and if a slur has been cast because an hon. Member has described them as "layabouts", can you, Madam Speaker, advise me on how we can defend people who are not in a position to defend themselves?
Madam Speaker : I have already attempted to deal with that. By no means is the Chair getting involved.
Mr. Barry Field (Isle of Wight) : Further to that point of order, Madam Speaker. May I thank you for being clear about the common courtesies of the House and may I draw to your attention the fact that, during the previous Parliament, my hon. Friend the Member for Sheffield, Hallam (Mr. Patnick) was mentioned twice by Opposition Members who did not acknowledge the normal courtesies of the House by notifying him that his name was to be mentioned in the Chamber? Could you reiterate that the normal courtesy is for hon. Members to notify one another when they intend to visit and to speak in their constituencies?
Madam Speaker : The hon. Gentleman is correct. If a Member or his constituency is named in the House, he should be notified in advance. Of course it is also courteous to tell other Members when an official visit is to be made to their constituency.
Mr. Tony Banks (Newham, North-West) : On a point of order, Madam Speaker.
Madam Speaker : Is it an extension of the last point of order?
Madam Speaker : In that case, I will hear it.
Mr. Banks : Would you confirm that, under the Mental Health Acts, you have the power to section? Perhaps you would contemplate using that power.
Madam Speaker : On that note, it is time for us to proceed with the business of the House.
Statutory Instruments, &c.
Madam Speaker : With the leave of the House, I will put together the Questions on the 15 motions on statutory instruments.
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Motion made, and Question put forthwith pursuant to Standing Order No. 101(3) (Standing Committees on Statutory Instruments, &c.),Rating and Valuation
That the draft British Alcan Primary and Recycling Ltd. (Rateable Values) (Scotland) Order 1992 be referred to a Standing Committee on Statutory Instruments, &c.
That the draft British Gas plc. (Rateable Values) (Scotland) Order 1992 be referred to a Standing Committee on Statutory Instruments, &c.
That the draft British Railways Board (Rateable Values) (Scotland) Order 1992 be referred to a Standing Committee on Statutory Instruments, &c.
That the draft British Telecommunications plc. (Rateable Values) (Scotland) Order 1992 be referred to a Standing Committee on Statutory Instruments, &c.
That the draft Electricity Generators (Rateable Values) (Scotland) Order 1992 be referred to a Standing Committee on Statutory Instruments, &c.
That the draft Glasgow Underground (Rateable Values) (Scotland) Order 1992 be referred to a Standing Committee on Statutory Instruments, &c.
That the draft Lochaber Power Company (Rateable Values) (Scotland) Order 1992 be referred to a Standing Committee on Statutory Instruments, &c.
That the draft Mercury Communications Ltd. (Rateable Values) (Scotland) Order 1992 be referred to a Standing Committee on Statutory Instruments, &c.
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That the draft Scottish Hydro-Electric plc. (Rateable Values) (Scotland) Order 1992 be referred to a Standing Committee on Statutory Instruments, &c.That the draft Scottish Nuclear Limited (Rateable Values) (Scotland) Order 1992 be referred to a Standing Committee on Statutory Instruments, &c.
That the draft Scottish Power plc. (Rateable Values) (Scotland) Order 1992 be referred to a Standing Committee on Statutory Instruments, &c.
That the draft Water Undertakings (Rateable Values) (Scotland) Order 1992 be referred to a Standing Committee on Statutory Instruments, &c.
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