House of Commons Hansard Debates for 11 Jun 1992

Sir Teddy Taylor : Did the Chancellor of the Exchequer have the opportunity on Tuesday to raise with Commissioner Scrivener her reported comment that she will take Britain to court next year if we have not charged VAT on food, electricity and gas? Has he received any

Column 440

legal advice from Government officials on whether the Commission would have the right to go to the court to seek to oblige Britain to charge VAT on those items--which are zero-rated--under the terms of the Single European Act, which calls on member states to charge VAT at a harmonised level, as is necessary to complete the internal market?

Sir John Cope : We have received legal advice and are satisfied that all our zero rates meet the criteria of the sixth directive, which is what matters. As I said in answer to an earlier question, it would take unanimity in the Council of Ministers to alter that, and we obviously would not agree.

Mr. Nicholas Brown : The whole House will welcome an assurance from the Minister that the Government intend neither to widen the scope of VAT nor to increase the rates. I invite him to give that assurance to the House.

Sir John Cope : We have no plans and no need to raise or extend VAT, as my right hon. Friends have said on numerous occasions.

Economic Policy

12. Mr. Willetts : To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer when he next expects to meet the Director General of the Confederation of British Industry to discuss economic policy.

Mr. Lamont : I meet the Director General of the CBI from time to time to discuss a broad range of matters.

Mr. Willetts : Has my right hon. Friend seen the latest quarterly CBI industrial trends survey, which shows a big improvement in export orders and business confidence? Is he aware that since the general election, we have seen the biggest improvement in business optimism since 1988?

Mr. Lamont : I agree with my hon. Friend and, indeed, the evidence of the May survey was extremely encouraging. The script attached to it of the evidence from the CBI stated :

"Evidence from the latest CBI surveys continues to suggest that the economic recovery is, at last, on the way the CBI's latest economic forecast suggests that growth will resume in the second quarter of this year and continue throughout 1992 and 1993."

That was the opinion of the CBI and it is welcome.

Mr. John Evans : What response does the Chancellor of the Exchequer have to the statement of Sir Antony Pilkington, the chairman of the St. Helens glassmakers who had to cut the dividend for the first time and see profits collapse, that the Chancellor is killing British industry and that he has not met one business man who can see any signs of any economic upturn whatever?

Mr. Lamont : It so happens that I had dinner with Sir Antony Pilkington last week and he assured me that he wholly supported Government policy.

Mr. Oppenheim : When considering calls from the CBI and others to cut interest rates, will my right hon. Friend consider the position in the United States where interest rates have been cut to 3.5 per cent. but where recovery remains elusive and long-term market rates remain almost as high as in this country? Does that not illustrate that the real problem is a shortage of capital in international markets and an imbalance between savings and consumption, particularly Government consumption,

Column 441

internationally? Bearing that in mind, does he agree that premature cuts in interest rates would exacerbate the problems by reducing incentives to invest?

Mr. Lamont : My hon. Friend makes a good point in reminding us that the function of interest rates is to balance investment and savings. It is necessary both to attract the relevant amount of capital and to encourage savings. My hon. Friend is also right to emphasise that it is the long-term rate of interest which is particularly important for investment. Unless we have tight control of public spending it will be more difficult to get interest rates down. That is why my right hon. Friend the Chief Secretary to the Treasury is absolutely right that economy in public spending is essential.

Balance of Trade

14. Mr. Hall : To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer when he next expects Britain's balance of trade to be in surplus.

Mr. Portillo : The "Financial Statement and Budget Report" forecast for the current account was for a deficit of £6 billion in 1992 and £9 billion at an annual rate in the first half of 1993. Forecasts for future years are not available.

Mr. Hall : That reply from the Chief Secretary in no way answers my question to the Chancellor of the Exchequer. I will ask the question again because that answer demonstrates the Government's dangerous contempt for our balance of trade deficit. Will the Chief Secretary answer the specific question : when will our trade next be in surplus? Will he tell the House whether he agrees with the advice of the President of the Board of Trade to the Conservative Government not to argue that the balance of trade deficit is easy to manage and would not be a problem for the Government to cope with?

Mr. Portillo : The hon. Gentleman's substantive question was answered in what I said. I told him that we made no forecasts beyond the first half of 1993. He asked about the sustainability or manageability of the current account deficit. At about 1 per cent. of gross domestic product it is indeed sustainable. At present we are seeing a substantial inflow of investment into this country. There is strong investment in particular from the United States and Japan, which tends to demonstrate that there is no difficulty in funding the deficit.

Mr. John Greenway : Although that inward investment is particularly welcome, does my right hon. Friend agree that in terms of Britain's balance of payments our overseas investment into other countries has increased in value in the past year by substantially more than our trade imbalance?

Mr. Portillo : My hon. Friend makes a good point. He will recognise that that inward investment helps the very significant growth that there has been in our exports. Our growth in manufactured exports is showing up now compared with world trade. During the 1980s the proportion of our manufactures fell as part of world trade. Since 1988, there has been a marked increase.

Mr. Barnes : If the Minister will not give an estimate of when we shall next be in surplus, will he give us a guess?

Column 442

Mr. Portillo : I made this perfectly clear to the hon. Member for Warrington, South (Mr. Hall). We have produced a forecast for 1993. Our export volume is extremely high. We are now seeing some increase in imports which, because they tend to centre around basic materials, provide some evidence of recovery which the hon. Gentleman should welcome.

Policy Priorities

15. Mr. Shersby : To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer what are his policy priorities during the British presidency of the EC Council of Ministers ; and if he will make a statement.

Mr. Lamont : The United Kingdom's key priorities are the completion of the single market, enlargement of the Community, and working towards a conclusion on the Community's future financing.

Mr. Shersby : Is my right hon. Friend aware that financial orthodoxy is one of the most important priorities for the presidency of the Community? I hope that he will follow that in the months to come.

Mr. Lamont : I am extremely grateful to my hon. Friend.

PRIME MINISTER

Engagements

Q1. Mr. Darling : To ask the Prime Minister if he will list his official engagements for Thursday 11 June.

The Lord President of the Council and Leader of the House of Commons (Mr. Tony Newton) rose --

Mr. Skinner : Remember to give short answers.

Mr. Newton : I am glad to see that the hon. Member for Bolsover (Mr. Skinner) is in his usual friendly form.

I have been asked to reply. My right hon. Friend the Prime Minister is in Rio de Janeiro to attend the Earth summit and will have bilateral meetings later today with various Heads of Government.

Mr. Darling : Why did the Secretary of State for Social Security need to issue a statement yesterday expressing his confidence in and support for the Prime Minister's policies?

Mr. Newton : My right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Social Security clearly thought--in my view, rightly--that his position had been misconstrued and that it was sensible to make that clear. I am glad to note that in some quarters journalists have begun to question the interpretation that had been placed on a meeting which had been interpreted as a conspiracy, but which appeared to have Government Whips present. [Interruption.]

Madam Speaker : Order. The House should come to order and let us get on with our business properly.

Mr. Biffen : During my right hon. Friend's hitherto busy day, has he borne constantly in mind the speech made just under four years ago in which Mr. Jacques Delors said that 80 per cent. of economic decisions and perhaps even 80 per cent. of fiscal and social decisions should be subject to initiation at Community level? Does my right hon.

Column 443

Friend agree that that is the unacceptable ambition of political centralism? Does he further agree that, in those circumstances, the reappointment of Mr. Delors would be provocative and

counter-productive? May I say that my question was formulated without the assistance of the Whips?

Mr. Newton : I think that I could have guessed that.

The British Government's position on subsidiarity is that we are concerned to enhance and underpin the concept. The Maastricht agreement did precisely that, and the British Government will continue to pursue that objective.

Mr. Hattersley : Why did the Government promise that after 1 April no patient would have to wait more than two years for hospital admission?

Mr. Newton : The Government made commitments in the patients charter and in relation to the development of health service policies that the aim was to ensure that no one should have to wait more than two years for treatment. Huge progress has been made in that, with a drop of nearly 50,000 in the numbers awaiting treatment in the year running up to April. It is obviously a disappointment that there was a small increase in April. That is now being addressed.

Mr. Hattersley : I will give the Leader of the House credit for getting the statement wrong by mistake rather than by intention. The document that went through every door in the land guaranteed--the Government's word--that after 1 April--the Government's date--no one would wait longer than two years. Did the Government ever really mean that, or was it just pre-election propaganda?

Mr. Newton : Not merely did the Government mean it, but a huge improvement, to which I referred, has been delivered. That progress will be reinforced by the action that my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Health has taken.

Mr. Hattersley : Whether or not the Government meant it, they clearly failed in that ambition. What does the right hon. Gentleman say to those citizens who believed that the Government were honest in the guarantee that after 1 April they would not have to wait for more than two years but who now find that they are having to wait for more than two years because the Government failed to keep a promise which was made purely for electoral purposes?

Mr. Newton : A reduction in the number of patients waiting over two years from more than 50,000 to fewer than 2,000 in a year is hardly a failure of ambition.

Q2. Mr. Evennett : To ask the Prime Minister if he will list his official engagements for Thursday 11 June.

Mr. Newton : I have been asked to reply.

I refer my hon. Friend to the reply that I gave some moments ago.

Mr. Evennett : Does my right hon. Friend agree that fighting the international drugs trade is vitally important? Will he join me in congratulating the Prime Minister on his announcement yesterday in Colombia?

Mr. Newton : Yes, and I thank my hon. Friend for his comments. The illicit drugs trade is an international problem which demands an international response. What

Column 444

the Prime Minister has agreed with the Colombian Government in the last few days represents a significant and valuable advance.

Rev. Martin Smyth : Will the right hon. Gentleman try to explain to the people of Northern Ireland why, despite the Government's promise that hospital waiting lists would be reduced, they have been going up rather than going down and today we have had the announcement of further hospital beds being closed although people are waiting for treatment.

Mr. Newton : I have made the Government's position absolutely clear on that matter. Whether in Northern Ireland or in any other part of the United Kingdom, the Government are determined to deliver the improvement in service set out in the citizens charter and the patients charter. Further progress has still to be made, but the progress already made is striking.

Q3. Mr. Richard Alexander : To ask the Prime Minister if he will list his official engagements for Thursday 11 June.

Mr. Newton : I have been asked to reply.

I refer my hon. Friend to the reply that I gave some moments ago.

Mr. Alexander : Is my right hon. Friend aware that some local education authorities are discriminating against pupils who attend grant- maintained schools? Does he agree that any authority that treats children in that way is not fit to be called an education authority?

Mr. Newton : I agree with my hon. Friend and join him in deploring what has been reported in relation to some local authorities' attitudes towards children at grant-maintained schools or, for that matter, at city technology colleges. For once, I wish to pay a compliment to the Opposition Front Bench. I was pleased to read the remarks of the Labour education spokesman, the hon. Member for Blackburn (Mr. Straw) yesterday, which suggested a responsible shift, for once, in the Opposition's position.

Mr. O'Brien : How do the Government intend to reduce the waiting time for operations in hospital, as people are now having to wait over two years?

Mr. Newton : I do not know how many times I have to say this to get it understood-- [Interruption.] For those waiting over two years, there has been a movement of 400, in relation to a total number of operations running into many hundreds of thousands, and against the background of a reduction from more than 50,000 to fewer than 2,000 over the year before. We intend to maintain that improvement.

Q4. Mr. Raymond S. Robertson : To ask the Prime Minister if he will list his official engagements for Thursday 11 June.

Mr. Newton : I have been asked to reply.

I refer my hon. Friend to the reply that I gave some moments ago.

Mr. Robertson : Does my right hon. Friend agree that the decision by NatWest to return £33 million to Maxwell pensioners is good news for those concerned, and also an example to others who hold Maxwell pension fund money?

Column 445

Mr. Newton : I agree with my hon. Friend on both counts. What has happened is a substantial vindication of the approach and effective package announced by my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Social Security earlier this week. I hope that that will be of especial comfort to my hon. Friend, as I know how much effort he has put in on behalf of Maxwell pensioners in his constituency.

Q5. Dr. Reid : To ask the Prime Minister if he will list his official engagements for Thursday 11 June.

Mr. Newton : I have been asked to reply.

I refer the hon. Gentleman to the reply that I gave some moments ago.

Dr. Reid : Will the Leader of the House describe to my constituents in the Bellshill area some of the supposed advantages of the specialisation that would accompany the opting out of the local hospital? In particular, will he identify the services that could be regarded as non-essential or peripheral and may be curtailed or closed down according to the law of supply and demand? I should tell him that the local hospital is the Bellshill maternity hospital.

Mr. Newton : I am sure that my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Scotland will have noted the reference to a particular hospital. What I would say to the hon. Gentleman's constituents is that if they are in any doubt they should come and visit the growing number of trust hospitals and talk to the staff and patients, who are experiencing the benefits.

Mr. Gorst : As the British Government are a signatory to article 8 of the European convention on human rights, will my right hon. Friend tell us what the Government feel that they should do to protect the family life and privacy of the royal family who, after all, are entitled to the same consideration as other members of the community?

Mr. Newton : I made some observations on that subject on Tuesday. I am sure that people both outside and inside the House will take note of my hon. Friend's concern, which has been added to that expressed in other quarters earlier this week.

Q6. Mr. Martyn Jones : To ask the Prime Minister if he will list his official engagements for Thursday 11 June.

Mr. Newton : I have been asked to reply.

I refer the hon. Gentleman to the reply that I gave some moments ago.

Mr. Jones : The Lord President of the Council will no doubt recall that in a previous Parliament I introduced the Consumer Guarantees Bill, which endeavoured to give rights to people who had purchased shoddy goods. The Bill was killed by Conservative Members. It had no Government support, but offers were made for guarantees to be considered. Will the new Government and the Prime Minister consider guarantees and give people real rights instead of the confetti of charters?

Mr. Newton : I had better acknowledge that I am not familiar with all the details of the hon. Gentleman's proposed private Member's Bill, but the Government already have a considerable record in protecting the rights

Column 446

of consumers of all kinds, and a continued determination to do so. Indeed, we have greatly improved the rights of consumers of public services.

Mr. Cash : Further to the question asked by my right hon. Friend the Member for Shropshire, North (Mr. Biffen), about Mr. Delors, will my right hon. Friend confirm that, in line with the EC principle that everybody seems to like to move step by step, there could at least be a review of Mr. Delors' position, if not an announcement that he will not be reappointed?

Mr. Newton : My hon. Friend, who puts his question a little more gently than did my right hon. Friend the Member for Shropshire, North (Mr. Biffen), will be aware that those are matters for consideration at the Lisbon Council. It would not be sensible for me to go further than I already have in respect of my right hon. Friend.

Q7. Mr. Watson : To ask the Prime Minister if he will list his official engagements for Thursday 11 June.

Mr. Newton : I have been asked to reply.

I refer the hon. Gentleman to the reply that I gave some moments ago.

Mr. Watson : Following the decision of the Danish people to reject the Maastricht agreement, the Prime Minister and the Government have stressed their commitment to ratifying the treaty. Whether or not the people of the United Kingdom are also given a referendum--I, for one, am not afraid to trust them on constitutional matters--a fundamental cornerstone of the treaty remains subsidiarity, to which the Leader of the House referred in answer to a previous question. On the Prime Minister's return from Rio, will the Leader of the House urge him to accept that the principle of subsidiarity must also be applied within the United Kingdom, starting with a referendum to allow the Scottish people to decide their constitutional future?

Mr. Newton : The hon. Gentleman knows perfectly well that the Government have no plans for a referendum, as my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister has made perfectly clear on a number of occasions. The principle of subsidiarity already applies to the Government's approach to the United Kingdom, where much of the power is devolved down--at national level in Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland, and at local authority level in England.

Mrs. Currie : Does my right hon. Friend agree that many of us voted for the Maastricht deal as we felt that it was the best deal to be had, both for the United Kingdom and for Europe, and we have in no way backed off from that view? Does he agree that when we take over the presidency of the European Community in three weeks' time our partners will look to this country for positive leadership, backed up with the full confidence of the House, including Opposition parties and including the Whips? That is what we should be aiming to achieve.

Mr. Newton : In my judgment there is widespread support from hon. Members of all parties for the emphasis placed by the Government, and achieved in the Maastricht agreement, on the concept of subsidiarity and the development of the Community through intergovernmental co-operation. The Government will pursue and advance those key objectives during the United Kingdom presidency.

Next Section (Debates)

Home Page