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Mr. Bennett : I thank the Attorney-General for that reply. However, given that the police and prosecutors--some of them now in high places-- appeared in the past to conceal evidence that was inconvenient to them, what will the Attorney-General and the Government do to restore public confidence that there will be full disclosure and justice? In trying to restore public confidence, will he assure us that the May inquiry will be completed and that it will not be gagged by some of those same people in high places?
The Attorney-General : While I do not know of any evidence of a conspiracy by prosecutors in high places, there are lessons to be learnt from recent cases. I believe that if we have a statutory framework along the lines of the evidence that my prodecessor and I have submitted to the royal commission we shall make progress in overcoming those serious problems.
Mr. Mullin : Has not the suppression of inconvenient evidence by the Director of Public Prosecutions been a feature of all recent major miscarriages of justice? If the Attorney-General has read the judgment in the Judith Ward case he will see that the judges said that the DPP's attitude towards disclosure, about which the court questioned her several times, remained "opaque to the end"? Will the Attorney-General make that attitude less opaque?
The Attorney-General : As I have already said, there are lessons to be learnt from the Judith Ward case, among others. I do not accept some of the ways in which the hon. Gentleman has put them, but the lessons involve prosecutors, those who assist them, the police and those who present cases. The essential factor is fairness and competence so that people know what to disclose and that they do so in a way which makes it properly useful to the defence.
Mr. Garnier : Will my right hon. and learned Friend give the House an idea of the timing involved in the introduction of any statutory application of the rules on disclosure? Does he accept that statutory applications will enable all parties involved in the criminal process to understand where their duties lie and thus know exactly where they stand?
The Attorney-General : My hon. Friend makes an important point. Unless people understand what is expected of them, it is much easier to fail to do so, without malice underlying that failure. The royal commission is to report in approximately a year's time. It will then be necessary to consider carefully what it recommends, but, against that time scale of a year to report, it should be possible to judge roughly how long it will take.
Dame Elaine Kellett-Bowman : In considering disclosure of evidence, will my right hon. Friend balance the matter by abolishing the right to silence?
The Attorney-General : One of the recommendations put forward by a number of people, including my predecessor and me, is that to achieve a fair trial from everybody's point of view there should be wider disclosure, subject to safeguards, by the defence of their case as well as by the prosecution of theirs. That is more likely to lead to justice, which requires not only that the innocent should not be convicted but that the guilty should be convicted.
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Mr. Fraser : Will the right hon. and learned Gentleman do three things? First, will he amend the Attorney-General's guidelines so that unused evidence is always supplied to the defence, unless withheld with the consent of the trial judge on public interest grounds? Secondly, will he seriously consider the judicial supervision of investigation in serious criminal offences? Thirdly, will he now try to ensure that, alongside the prosecution, the defence always has equal access to forensic facilities?
The Attorney-General : The hon. Gentleman's third point is well taken. As for his first two points, it would not be appropriate to seek to amend the guidelines as a formal act prior to the report of the royal commission. On judicial supervision, if the hon. Gentleman is referring to something like an investigating magistrate system, that would be an enormous step to take in our system and we must await the royal commission's report. However, there are recommendations for more court involvement in disclosure in the evidence that I and my predecessor have given.
Mr. David Martin : Will my right hon. and learned Friend confirm that, in the early 1970s when I was practising, it was a matter of honourable practice that barristers disclosed evidence, even if it was against their interests as prosecutor? Anybody not doing so would be considered a dishonest practitioner. Is that not still the position at the Bar and should not anyone discovered behaving dishonestly be disbarred?
The Attorney-General : The answer to my hon. Friend's question is yes. Anybody caught acting dishonourably should be disbarred. However, there is more to it than honourable practice. One must also have a definite practice and, as my hon. Friend knows, practice has changed considerable since the early 1970s. Following the Confait case, changes were made and then the Attorney-General's guidelines were introduced. Those have been developed in common law. I agree with my hon. Friend's first point.
Hillsborough Disaster
31. Mr. Alton : To ask the Attorney-General what representations he has received concerning the right of relatives of those killed at the Hillsborough stadium disaster to reopen, legal proceedings.
The Solicitor-General (Sir Derek Spencer) : My right hon. and learned Friend the Attorney-General has received a number of representations from Members of this House and will take a decision on an outstanding formal application for consent under section 13 of the Coroners Act 1988 as soon as possible.
Mr. Alton : Does the Minister understand the sense of grief felt by many people, including my constituent Philip Hammond whose boy was tragically killed at Hillsborough, and their sense that no line can be drawn on the issue until every legal remedy has been exhausted? Will he therefore assure the House that that announcement will not be long in coming and that he will try to understand the feelings of the relatives involved, who do not feel that the inquest process has been exhaustive?
The Solicitor-General : I am conscious of the continuing grief and anxiety of the many individuals affected by that
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tragedy. For that reason, the decision must be carefully considered--and it will be. We shall make a decision as soon as possible.War Crimes
32. Mr. Cyril D. Townsend : To ask the Attorney-General when he expects to bring prosecutions under the War Crimes Act 1991.
The Attorney-General : Both the Metropolitan police and the Crown prosecution service have dedicated teams examining the evidence relating to alleged war crimes. It has been possible to narrow and focus the area of investigation, but the question of prosecutions must await completion of individual investigations and a careful scrutiny of all the evidence obtained.
Mr. Townsend : Is it not disgraceful that this country is about to follow the old Soviet Union and modern Israel in staging vindictive war crimes trials? Is it not true that we are dealing with only three elderly individuals, all former citizens of the Baltic states? Is it not also highly unlikely that any one of them would be alive to be sentenced if he were found guilty? Would it not be wise to bring this whole stupid business to a rapid end?
The Attorney-General : The investigations followed a statutory enactment in accordance with the will of Parliament, but any prosecution decision will be taken in accordance with the principles that apply to all other prosecutions, in which fairness to all parties, including the accused, is an important, if not an essential, part.
Mr. Janner : Does the right hon. and learned Gentleman accept that prosecution for war crimes is not regarded as a stupid business, as has been alleged, by anyone with any real or certainly any personal involvement in the mass murders concerned? In view of the decision of the House, by an overwhelming majority from both sides, will the Attorney-General please confirm that when the evidence is ready, it will be assessed by the Director of Public Prosecutions and that she will decide, as he has said, on the ordinary principles of our law, whether there is sufficient evidence to warrant prosecution and, if there is sufficient evidence, prosecutions will proceed as swiftly as is possible and proper?
The Attorney-General : The evidence, as and when or if and when it appears and appears to be sufficient to give rise to a prosecution, will be assessed against the ordinary criteria, without fear or favour, affection or ill will.
OVERSEAS DEVELOPMENT
Cotton
35. Mr. Thurnham : To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what representations he has received about aid to cotton-producing countries ; and if he will make a statement.
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs (Mr. Mark Lennox-Boyd) : None, previously
Mr. Thurnham : Is my hon. Friend aware that many cotton-producing countries--India, Pakistan, China and Egypt--force their cotton farmers to sell their cotton at
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well below world market prices, thus giving their cotton spinners an unfair advantage? Will he encourage countries receiving British aid not to harm British industry in that way--even if the Opposition spokeswoman likes to bite the hand that feeds her?Mr. Lennox-Boyd : I agree that the practice is wrong, but it is a matter for my hon. Friend the Minister for Trade. He is aware of anxiety about the practice of double pricing raw cotton in some cotton-producing countries and we have made known our views on double pricing under the relevant GATT consultation procedures.
ODA Budget
36. Mr. Riddick : To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what is the overseas development budget in 1992-93 ; and what is planned for 1993-94.
Mr. Lennox-Boyd : Provision for aid to developing countries is £1, 831 million this year and £1,899 million for 1993-94.
Mr. Riddick : Are those not enormous sums, and do they not demonstrate the Government's massive contribution and commitment to helping the poorest countries and people? Does my hon. Friend agree that by failing to tackle the problem of overpopulation in Rio world leaders have failed to tackle what is probably the most fundamental and pressing difficulty facing the third world today?
Mr. Lennox-Boyd : Yes, they are indeed enormous sums. The issue of population figured rather more significantly at Rio than had at one time seemed likely, and we helped to give it the prominence that it deserved, against the reluctance of some countries to do so. The issue was and has been actively promoted by my right hon. and noble Friend the Minister for Overseas Development.
Ms. Abbott : Will the Minister accept that the Government's aid budget is not in line with United Nations guidelines and that although overpopulation is an issue, it is not the fundamental cause of poverty in the third world? The fundamental cause of poverty, hunger and suffering in the third world is the economic relationship between those countries and the west--and that includes trade and aid. It would be very unfortunate if the issue of population, which is a real one, were used to divert attention from the failings of the Government in relation to aid.
Mr. Lennox-Boyd : I never said that population was the overall problem. As I have said, we have a very large aid budget, which has been growing substantially in the past five years. It is 3 per cent. larger this year than last and it is certainly of a significant size.
Mr. Anthony Coombs : Recognising that the United Kingdom's aid budget is indeed large, will my hon. Friend confirm that it is the sixth largest budget in the world? Will he also confirm that there is a spurious intellectual quality about the 0.7 per cent. target that the United Nations seems to want to foist on us? Finally, does he agree that what is important is not only how much is spent on aid but how much gets to the people who need it?
Mr. Lennox-Boyd : Yes, I can confirm that ours is the sixth largest programme in the world, and it is extremely
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well targeted. The quality of our aid is recognisedinternationally--especially the fact that it helps the very poorest people in the world.
Mr. Campbell-Savours : How can the Minister say that it is an enormous budget when it has been cut by half in the past 13 years? It is not the sixth largest in the world ; it is the 14th largest when calculated as a proportion of GDP.
Do the Government intend to revise their ODA spending plans, as published in the public expenditure White Paper? Will the Minister revise those figures for the next three years as a result of Rio?
Mr. Lennox-Boyd : I can see that the hon. Gentleman supplied the information on which the Leader of the Opposition based his remark the other day that the aid programme had been cut in half since 1979. Nothing could be further from the truth. The hon. Gentleman should help his right hon. Friend better than that. Since 1979 the size of the aid budget has more than doubled in nominal terms.
Mr. John Marshall : Will my hon. Friend remind the third world and the aid lobby that the most effective way to sponsor economic development in the third world is to encourage private investment and the adoption of a social market economy?
Mr. Lennox-Boyd : Yes, my hon. Friend is right to emphasise private investment and the adoption of a social market economy. As he knows, much of our aid is targeted on countries that adopt good government practices, which include the adoption of sensible financial policies which lead to economic prosperity and growth.
Mr. Simon Hughes : The Minister and the Prime Minister reaffirmed at Rio our commitment to 0.7 per cent., and now we have had a further clear statement of that target, but shall we ever be given a statement of the timetable for achieving it? Or shall we continue giving less than half the figure that we have accepted as the minimum that we should commit to countries far less well off than our own?
Mr. Lennox-Boyd : As the hon. Gentleman said, the Government reaffirmed our commitment to the United Nations aid target. The important thing is to make progress as the economy grows. In the past five years, the aid budget has grown by 8 per cent. in real terms. In other words, the budget has grown in periods of growth, and this year it is 3 per cent. higher than last.
Mr. Watts : Will my hon. Friend undertake to review our aid programme to India in the light of the good government criteria in view of that country's appalling human rights record in Kashmir and the Punjab?
Mr. Lennox-Boyd : As my hon. Friend knows, the Indians have enormous problems with terrorism in the Punjab and Kashmir. All terrorist matters must be properly dealt with. There have been abuses in India, but we have taken them up with the Indian Government and I am happy to say that they have announced the appointment of a human rights commission, which we have welcomed. We want progress on that to attend to these difficult matters.
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Biodiversity Convention
37. Mr. Wareing : To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs if he will make a statement on the conclusions of the EC Environment and Development Ministers meeting on 5 May regarding the signing of an effective convention on biodiversity.
Mr. Lennox-Boyd : At the joint Environment and Development Council on 5 May, Ministers reaffirmed their strong support for the conclusion of effective conventions on climate change and on biological diversity, to be signed in Rio.
Mr. Wareing : What will be the cost to the British Government of signing the biodiversity treaty, and what amount is being avoided by the United States which that country would have faced if it had signed the treaty? Is it not deplorable that the richest country on earth should seek to evade its responsibilities? Will the Minister tell the Prime Minister that when he assumes the chairmanship of the European Council on 1 July, Britain will expect the European Community, through him, to exert maximum pressure on the United States to take up those responsibilities?
Mr. Lennox-Boyd : It is simply not possible to put a figure today on the cost of implementing the biodiversity convention, which will be implemented over many years. It is important that the convention was signed, and most important that it contains more than 150 signatures. We are already giving a great deal of financial assistance to help developing countries with biodiversity conservation. The amount is more than £10 million bilaterally each year. We have committed more than £40 million to the initial funding of the global environmental facility, and nearly 50 per cent. of the funds spent so far in that area have been for biodiversity.
Street Children
38. Mr. Ian Bruce : To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs if he will make a statement on the Government's policy on providing overseas aid targeted to help street children.
Mr. Lennox-Boyd : Improving the health and social development of children is a major objective of the ODA and we aim to provide for children to be the direct beneficiaries of our programmes.
Mr. Bruce : I thank my hon. Friend for that excellent reply and I thank the Prime Minister for having put this country's moral stamp of approval on the programme for helping street children by visiting the street children centre in Rio. Can my hon. Friend confirm that the Foreign Office is looking in particular at Guatemala and trying to persuade it to take positive steps to help street children?
Mr. Lennox-Boyd : Yes. My right hon. Friend the Prime Minister, who is shortly to make a statement, visited the San Martino refuge in Rio de Janeiro last week. The United Kingdom's interest in the fate of these unhappy children is well recognised and understood by experts in Brazil. We are a leading country in this area.
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