House of Commons Hansard Debates for 17 Jun 1992

Sir George Young : We have made some investment in organisations such as the tenant participation advisory service. The proposals that we published last week on competitive tendering for housing management gave tenants for the first time the right to manage, rather than relying on the discretion of a local authority. We are determined to harness tenants associations' energy and enthusiasm as we develop our housing policy. We are keen to see more estate management boards, tenant management organisations and co-operatives taking over responsibility for their estates. That is a theme about which we shall hear a lot during the next four or five years.

Local Government Review

15. Mr. Moss : To ask the Secretary of State for the Environment whether he will ensure that full weight is given to local opinion in the forthcoming review of the structure of local government.

Mr. Redwood : Yes. That is most important. Local opinion will be crucial in the local government commission's work programme. I have asked the commission to ensure that there are good arrangements for Members of Parliament to be able to make representations to it on those crucial matters.

Mr. Moss : Will my hon. Friend confirm that a priority of the local government review is to preserve community identity? In the interests of testing real local opinion, does he agree that in rural areas such as Cambridgeshire it

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would make sense to start at grass roots, at local parish council level, and work upwards, rather than have something imposed from the county council downwards?

Mr. Redwood : It was clear in the legislation passed last Session that the definition of natural communities was an important task of the commission. That is one of the two guiding principles in making recommendations on a new structure. Parish councils should be prepared to have discussions with county and district councils, which will undoubtedly put proposals to the commission to see how the powers under existing legislation can best be used to ensure that strong parish councils wishing to undertake a role in the new structure can do so.

Mr. Barnes : Why does the local government boundary commissioner have to consult the Parliamentary Commissioner for Administration when drawing up proposals? Is not that wide open to abuse? For example, Derbyshire is in the first tranche to be investigated under local government, but it is likely to be at the back end when it comes to parliamentary seats. That means that, because of the link between the two, the parliamentary seats will shape the local government provision, rather than the usual practice of local government shaping parliamentary seats.

Mr. Redwood : I do not agree with all the implications behind the hon. Gentleman's question. The purpose of the local government review is to find suitable boundaries and proposals for councils and there can be interaction only if county boundaries are to be changed. All the relevant considerations will be taken into account by the new commission as it goes about its work.

Mr. Pickles : Does my hon. Friend recognise that there is much local concern about reorganisation and that the principal concern is that there should not simply be a replication of existing councils, with either a small county council or a large, super-district council? Will the Government ensure that the review's function is such that we have an enabling council and that a new civic pride is engendered not only in the ownership of services but in the quality of services?

Mr. Redwood : A sense of belonging and of happiness with the proposals in the local community is important, as I have already said in answer to previous questions. The style and method of operating particular councils will be reviewed by the commission in the light of proposals from the councils in the area and in the light of its thoughts about any other options that should be considered. My hon. Friend will have a full chance to influence the commission, as will other hon. Members, when it reaches their areas.

Eco-labelling

16. Mr. Bennett : To ask the Secretary of State for the Environment if he will make a statement about the introduction of eco-labels--green labels.

Mr. Maclean : The United Kingdom has strongly supported the development of the European eco-labelling scheme, so I am delighted that the EC regulation is now in place and that arrangements are progressing for launching

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the scheme towards the end of the year. We shall continue to press the Commission and the other member states to ensure that this timetable is met.

Mr. Bennett : Will the Minister confirm his green credentials by telling us which washing-up liquid he uses? Will he also confirm that some of the other EC states are still dragging their feet in regard to eco- labelling, and that it would have been far better for this country to go ahead on its own?

Mr. Maclean : I shall come clean in a moment.

The hon. Gentleman fails to grasp the point that if we are to make any real environmental progress, we must do so in concert with other nations. We have a free trading area in Europe, where goods and products are moved around the Community. Without a Europewide eco-labelling scheme--which is now within our grasp--that arrangement would not be as effective as it should be.

In answer to the hon. Gentleman's first question, I believe in being a liberated husband and sharing the household duties ; unfortunately, however, washing up is not the duty that has been allocated to me.

Earth Summit

17. Rev. Martin Smyth : To ask the Secretary of State for the Environment if he will make a statement on the fiscal and industrial consequences for the United Kingdom of decisions reached at the Rio de Janeiro conference.

Mr. Howard : The impetus for sustainable development resulting from the Earth summit will have significant consequences in many areas of our national life. The Government are committed to reporting regularly on the progress that we make in following up the summit's conclusions.

Rev. Martin Smyth : In the light of that answer, and the attitude of, for example, the United States Government, does the Secretary of State accept that short-term gain might mean long-term ruin--not only for developed countries but, especially, for developing countries?

Mr. Howard : The hon. Gentleman is right. That lies at the heart of the whole concept of sustainable development, and I welcome his support for the steps that we have taken.

Sir Anthony Durant : Does my right hon. and learned Friend agree that any proposed carbon tax ought to be introduced world wide, rather than imposed on countries such as ours in isolation?

Mr. Howard : I am sure that my hon. Friend, who takes a close interest in such matters, will be much comforted to learn that the European Commission's proposals for a carbon tax include an element of conditionality. His concern is reflected in them.

Standard Spending Assessments

19. Mr. Austin Mitchell : To ask the Secretary of State for the Environment what plans he has to revise standard spending assessments to make them a realistic reflection of local needs.

21. Mr. Ian Bruce : To ask the Secretary of State for the Environment if he will make a statement on the planned changes to the standard spending assessment calculation for 1993-94.

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Mr. Robin Squire : Standard spending assessments are a realistic reflection of local needs. Discussions with the local authority associations about a few possible changes for 1993-94 began in February. Data from the 1991 census will be incorporated into the assessments as soon as possible, but for most items this will probably be for 1994-95.

Mr. Mitchell : The Minister would need the wisdom of Solomon to devise a national system of assessment that fitted all the circumstances even approximately. Does he concede, however, that the SSAs do a particular injustice to such places as Grimsby? First, they make no allowance for unemployment ; secondly, they do make allowance for ethnic communities, which do not exist in Grimsby ; thirdly, they make allowance for visiting nights, but unfortunately not many tourists come to Grimsby ; and, fourthly, the method of assessing debt repayment has been a particular source of grievance. The difference between the Department's calculation and the sum that Grimsby is actually repaying amounts to £30 to £40 per head on the poll tax. Does not all that make a case for a much more realistic SSA?

Mr. Squire : I am unsurprised by the hon. Gentleman's comments. I pay tribute to him : he asks a good many questions about this subject, and he has asked a good many on this occasion. Let me concentrate on two of them.

The hon. Gentleman mentioned unemployment. As he knows, we judge that unemployment is not a relevant factor in the assessment relating to district-level services. He also raised the question of notional debt. The use of notional debt ensures that all authorities are treated fairly ; if we acted otherwise, we would disadvantage authorities that had previously chosen to use capital receipts to repay their debts.

Mr. Bruce : The county of Dorset is excellent at keeping within its spending limits, and it is a debt-free county. It is often felt that, when the Government set the SSA, Dorset is treated unfairly simply because it is a good Tory authority. The community care budget in particular will have to be increased considerably in all counties--especially in counties such as Dorset, which contain large numbers of elderly people. Will my hon. Friend ensure that the new SSA for Dorset will be generous, and that an early indication is given of when it will apply?

Mr. Squire : I am grateful to my hon. Friend. I sympathise with some of his points. He will have heard my earlier answer on community care : the Government will not make an announcement until the autumn. However, to repeat something that I said a few moments ago, standard spending assessments are calculated according to general principles and are applied in the same way to all authorities. One of the reasons why my hon. Friend's local authority will receive a relatively lower SSA is that, by most measurements of need, it does not have the same degree of need as other areas with higher SSAs.

County Hall, London

20. Mr. Tony Banks : To ask the Secretary of State for the Environment if he will make a statement about the future of county hall, London.

Mr. Redwood : Responsibility for the disposal of county hall rests with the London residuary body. It has entered into an agreement with the Japanese company Shirayama

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for the sale of the riverside building. An alternative proposal has been received from the London School of Economics. It is the intention that a statement should be made on this proposal in the near future, when it has been fully evaluated.

Mr. Banks : I am part grateful to the Minister for his reply. May I draw his attention to the all-party early-day motion 259, and ask him whether he is prepared to see an all-party delegation in his office before any further consideration is given to the issue? We should be grateful for that. Is it not a great shame that one of the premier, internationally known academic institutions in this country will possibly be denied access to the building, all parts of which it would use--not just the riverside-- whereas a cheapjack, Japanese hotel group would use just the riverside front for a luxury hotel? It is a disgrace.

Mr. Redwood : The Government are well aware of the strong views on this subject on both sides of the argument and will take them fully into account when coming to their conclusion.

Mr. Jessel : Will my hon. Friend make sure that county hall is sold for as large a sum as possible, in order to benefit the people in all 32 London boroughs? Will he make certain that it is so well scrambled into private use that never again can it be commandeered as an autocratic socialist regional bureaucracy?

Mr. Redwood : My hon. Friend has made his point very forcefully. He has shown that there are divided views in the House on this important issue.

Rented Housing

23. Mr. Betts : To ask the Secretary of State for the Environment what proposals he has to deal with the findings of the Audit Commission in its recent report on rented housing.

Sir George Young : The Audit Commission's report "Developing Local Authority Housing Strategies" commented helpfully on national housing policy issues and recommended ways in which local authorities could improve their performance. My announcement to the House on 21 May of proposals to place further emphasis on local authorities' efficiency and effectiveness in allocating housing investment resources, having regard to their developing enabling role as well as their role as direct housing providers, will help us to get best value for money from the full range of resources for special housing going into each area, as recommended by the commission.

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Mr. Betts : Is it not true that the Audit Commission report also said that Government policies were totally inadequate to provide a proper supply of rented housing ? Is it not also true that the National Federation of Housing Associations has produced a report which admits that some Government initiatives have produced some extra houses, but which also says that, as the Government insist on a very high level of private capital being included in the provisions, people on low incomes cannot afford those houses because rents have been forced up to such a high level by the Government's policy ?

Sir George Young : The Audit Commission report focuses mainly on local authorities. Its title is "Developing Local Authority Housing Strategies". It lists a range of measures that local authorities should take to make progress, such as letting their properties faster, evicting squatters and other illegal tenants, giving land to housing associations and bringing in other agencies, particularly housing associations, to help to solve local problems. It made estimates of the national need, ranging from 58,000 to 90,000. I am prepared to meet the Audit Commission and talk through some of the implications of its report which are addressed to central Government.

Mr. Colvin : Does my hon. Friend agree that one way to help the public housing sector is to stimulate the private rented sector? Although I welcome everything that the Government have done to that end, I agree with the hon. Member for Sheffield, Attercliffe (Mr. Betts) that very often rents in the private sector are far too high. One way to bring them down and to make them more affordable would be to introduce a housing tax allowance of about the same value as mortgage interest tax relief. When I suggested that to a Treasury Minister earlier this week, it was not ruled out of court. Will my hon. Friend join this lobby to try to persuade the Treasury to consider such a tax allowance which, I am sure, would do a great deal to make private rented accommodation more affordable?

Sir George Young : I am interested to hear of the exchange between my hon. Friend and my ministerial colleagues in the Treasury. As he rightly says, the question of tax allowances falls to the Treasury rather than to my Department, but we are anxious to get the private rented sector back on its feet. Last year, for the first time in many decades, there were more lettings in the private rented sector than leases falling in, so there are signs that the private rented sector has bottomed out. I am prepared to consider what further measures should be introduced to encourage more people to invest in good-quality accommodation for rent.

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