House of Commons Hansard Debates for 24 Jun 1992

Madam Speaker : Order. Clearly, the hon. and learned Gentleman is referring to the wrong question. Therefore, I call Mr. Michael J. Martin.

Mr. Michael J. Martin : Hardly a night goes by in my constituency when children as young as 10 or 11 do not steal cars. That resulted in a fatality in the Possilpark.

Column 255

Doctors who happened to walk into a gang of fighting youths were brutally beaten up. That is happening not only in my constituency but throughout the west of Scotland. Is not it time that the Minister met the chief constables of Scotland to discuss that serious problem?

Lord James Douglas-Hamilton : Yes. As I have mentioned, the Minister of State is writing today to the chief constables inviting them to a meeting with him, particularly to discuss the alarming increase in the use of firearms. I strongly support community policing. On urban aid, we give the best part of £1 million to a variety of projects dealing with drug and alcohol abuse, safe neighbourhood projects, security assistance for small businesses and household security measures. Much is being done. We have increased capital allocations to the police by £6 million this year.

Poll Tax

12. Mr. Wallace : To ask the Secretary of State for Scotland what discussions he has had with the Convention of Scottish Local Authorities regarding the recovery of poll tax arrears ; and if he will make a statement.

Mr. Allan Stewart : The subject of community charge collection has been discussed at a number of my right hon. Friend's meetings with the Convention of Scottish Local Authorities about local government finance matters in the past year or two.

Mr. Wallace : I am sure that the Minister shares with me the concern of many people who have bigger poll tax bills because of those who have not paid. Will he accept that one of the biggest non-payers are the Government, who could have been paying a substantial contribution from central Government funds to meet the rebates of many who could not pay? How much would have been due from central Government? Will the Minister now make that sum available to local authorities, or is the Government's policy "can pay, won't pay"?

Mr. Stewart : Of course we shall not do that. The non-payment problem certainly does not apply to the hon. Gentleman's constituency. For Orkney in 1989-90, the percentage of what was actually paid as against the payment assumption was 111.8 per cent.--12 per cent. more than estimated. In 1990-91, the figure was 100 per cent., and at the end of March it was 85.7 per cent. The problem has been variable. Frankly, it has arisen where authorities have been reluctant to use all available powers at the outset. That has created a non-payment culture, and that is what has created the problem.

Dr. Liam Fox : Will my hon. Friend give a firm commitment to recover as much arrears as is humanly possible? If he does not, the burden will fall upon decent law-abiding poll tax payers not only in Scotland but in the whole United Kingdom.

Mr. Stewart : My hon. Friend is right. Within Strathclyde there is tremendous resentment at the fact that people have to pay for those who have not yet paid the community charge. Local authorities have a statutory duty to collect outstanding charges. I make it clear to my hon. Friend and to the House that there is absolutely no question of an amnesty for non- payers. That would be wholly unfair to the majority of law-abiding taxpayers.

Column 256

Mr. Maxton : Is it not the case, however, that the majority of those who have not paid are among the very poorest, who were forced to pay the absurd minimum 20 per cent. payment? Even now, the Minister could resolve at least some problems by abolishing the 20 per cent. minimum payment, backdated to 1 April. He should also restore to local authorities the right to look at each individual case on its merits before deciding whether to take action against a person. If he did that, many problems would be resolved.

Mr. Stewart : People on income support have had their benefit uprated each year to take account of the liability for the maximum 20 per cent. that they pay. It has been made clear again and again that there will be no removal of the 20 per cent. rule for the community charge for 1992- 93, because it is a personal tax. There has been much publicity about some of the measures being taken by Strathclyde and Lothian in respect of precisely the people about whom the hon. Gentleman is talking, and that is those who have not paid but can pay. It is absolutely right that those authorities concentrate on doing that. My criticism is that they did not use the powers available to them sufficiently quickly and, therefore, a climate of non-payment was allowed to build up in some areas.

A1

13. Mr. Beith : To ask the Secretary of State for Scotland what plans are being prepared for dualling sections of the A1 which are not already listed in the roads programme.

Lord James Douglas-Hamilton : Preparation work is under way to dual the A1 between Tranent and Haddington and Haddington and Dunbar, between the Dunbar cement works junction and Innerwick, between the southern terminal of the Cockburnspath bypass and Penmanshiel and at Lemington. In England, two schemes to complete the Alnwick bypass are being taken forward. Further schemes to complete the dualling between Newcastle and north of Alnwick are being identified with a view to their inclusion in the roads programme.

Mr. Beith : Does the Minister recognise that if the announcement that he made on 2 March is to have substance, the process will have to be maintained? New projects will have to be brought into the roads programme in both Scotland and England each year if there is to be a complete dual carriageway from Newcastle to Edinburgh. Dualling would make the road much safer and worthy of its strategic requirements.

Lord James Douglas-Hamilton : I agree with the right hon. Gentleman and I look forward to meeting him and the other interested Members of Parliament on 7 July when we shall have a progress report.

Mr. Home Robertson : I look forward to that meeting. I welcome the Minister's announcement of progress on dualling sections of the road in East Lothian. When will he give us an idea of the timetable for those works and, indeed, for completing the whole of the dualling of the A1 from Musselburgh to Morpeth, in accordance with the undertaking given by the Government--undoubtedly by pure coincidence--just before the general election?

Column 257

Lord James Douglas-Hamilton : The Government's aim to dual the A1 has been clearly stated. Firm and ambitious plans for the next stage of work have been announced in some detail. Progress outwith the public expenditure planning period must, for the A1 as elsewhere in Scotland, including Ayrshire, depend on the resources available and the relative claims of schemes elsewhere. Obviously, we take into account the importance of the A1 project. The commitments given by the Government are more significant than those given by the Labour party.

Mr. Trimble : Is there any provision in the roads programme for the further improvement of the A75, in particular to bypass the village of--

Madam Speaker : Order. I was being most generous to the hon. Gentleman because I believed that his question had a connection. It is most unfair to take advantage of my generosity.

Housing Policy

15. Mr. McAllion : To ask the Secretary of State for Scotland when he next expects to meet the Convention of Scottish Local Authorities to discuss housing policy in Scotland.

Lord James Douglas-Hamilton : I expect to meet representatives of the housing committee of the Convention of Scottish Local Authorities on 24 September, when a range of housing issues will be discussed.

Mr. McAllion : Will the Government review their policy on housing, under which the best of council housing has been sold off and not replaced and much of the rest reduced to little better than welfare housing? Does the Minister understand that if the Government can claim to have achieved anything during the past three Parliaments, it is the creation of housing apartheid in Scotland? Large tracts of our cities are cut off and crucified by high levels of unemployment, poverty and crime. Such areas have a parallel only in the impoverished third world. Why, in a country as rich and wealthy as Scotland, are the Government, whom we never elected, failing so miserably to meet the aspirations of ordinary Scots to have a decent house to live in?

Lord James Douglas-Hamilton : A few days ago I was at Whitfield in the hon. Gentleman's constituency. People were celebrating the 1,000 jobs produced by the partnership as well as the housing regeneration. If the hon. Gentleman had been present, he would know that substantial progress had been made in his constituency. We also intend to reform the law on the right to buy and introduce streamlined procedures. The hon. Gentleman must appreciate that if the houses that were sold had not been bought, the same families would have continued to rent them for a reasonable time. I also opened the Stopover project in Dundee, which is doing a good job for the homeless. It serves a useful purpose.

Mrs. Fyfe : May I thank the Minister for finally agreeing to visit Maryhill to see the worst of the housing there. I am sure that he found it informative. Does he recognise that when housing associations attempt to provide housing for people with special needs, they face particular difficulties because of the complexity of funding, which is spread

Column 258

between social work departments, health boards and Scottish Homes? Will he meet appropriate representatives during the summer recess to seek to overcome that problem and to give some reassurance to the housing associations that specialise in that important task?

Lord James Douglas-Hamilton : Obviously, we want to give the maximum encouragement to housing for special needs. I should be grateful if the hon. Member could give me a note of all the difficulties that she is experiencing. I shall look into them thoroughly. Scottish Homes has a budget of £300 million and ought to be able to make suitable arrangements on those matters, but perhaps the hon. Member could get in touch with me.

Mar Lodge

17. Mr. Kynoch : To ask the Secretary of State for Scotland what steps he will take to assist in the preservation of the unique natural heritage present in the Mar Lodge estate.

Sir Hector Monro : I have asked Scottish Natural Heritage to seek a management agreement with the owner of Mar Lodge estate, which will safeguard the estate's outstanding natural heritage qualities for the future.

Mr. Kynoch : I very much welcome my hon. Friend's announcement, but I should be interested to know whether he is aware whether the Mar Lodge estate is still on the market. If it is, what will he do to revive the purchasing consortium, which has temporarily withdrawn its interest, largely because of its inability to fund future running expenses?

Sir Hector Monro : In 1990, the owner planned to sell, but the estate has never formally been on the market. I assure my hon. Friend, who obviously takes a great interest in that area of his constituency, that we are anxious, through Scottish Natural Heritage, to set up a management agreement and to maintain and safeguard that fine example of natural heritage. We shall be in close touch with the owner, if the consortium comes into being again and finds a positive way forward.

Mr. Dalyell : How can the Secretary of State for the Environment make the sort of speech that I heard this morning at the natural history museum, and how can the Prime Minister speak as he did at Rio to developing countries, when we cannot do anything constructive to safeguard Mar Lodge? Does the Minister realise that the management agreements are unlikely to save the ancient forest? Since my friendly and constructive meeting with him in his room, what follow-up has there been about someone from the Government, or sponsored by the Government, talking to Mr. Kluge properly about the possibility of a Kluge memorial park?

Sir Hector Monro : I agree that we had a useful discussion and I assure the hon. Gentleman that we are determined to look after the important parts of the estate through a management agreement. He also knows that it will form part of the Cairngorm working party report later this year, under Magnus Magnusson's chairmanship. We are not sitting back idly, but are reacting positively to see what can be done in a difficult situation.

Column 259

Overseas Adoptions

18. Mr. Thurnham : To ask the Secretary of State for Scotland what representations he has received about the adoption by British couples of orphans from Romania and other countries overseas ; and if he will make a statement.

Lord James Douglas-Hamilton : The adoption of children from Romania is now subject to an agreement concluded in March between the United Kingdom and the Romanian Committee for Adoptions. There have been no recent specific representations about the adoption of children from Romania or other countries overseas.

Mr. Thurnham : Will my hon. Friend work closely with his colleagues in other Departments, in view of the difficulties that have arisen with the Romanian adoption committee's agreement, which has prevented more than a handful of Romania's 100,000 orphans being adopted by British couples?

Lord James Douglas-Hamilton : Yes, I shall certainly do so. My hon. Friend obviously speaks on behalf of prospective parents and I appreciate their concern. On 20 January we consulted on a wide review of adoption law and on how inter-country adoption might be integrated with existing adoption arrangements and immigration procedures in a Scottish consultation paper. If my hon. Friend has any

representations they will be welcome. The agreement between Britain and Romania has insisted on the highest standard of assessment for prospective adopters, and similar agreements have been struck between Romania and other countries. There seem to be limited prospects for change.

Mr. McFall : Will the Minister join me to congratulate the Strathclyde appeal for Romanian children which, for the past year, has been working in Romania and has gathered more than £1 million from citizens, both young and old, in Strathclyde? It has done a marvellous job at Guru Ochnitei, where it has provided accommodation for 350 severely disabled children, due to the generosity of the citizens of Scotland. Does he agree that we should listen to the Romanians and should not allow people to go to Romania to plunder and take the brightest and the best of the Romanian children, but should instead work with the Romanians, as the Strathclyde appeal did, to bring Romania's health care policy into the 21st century?

Column 260

Lord James Douglas-Hamilton : We very much welcome the activities in Strathclyde in that connection. The hon. Gentleman is right that this is essentially a matter for the Romanians and that the scope for change is very limited. However, it is right that so much concern has been shown by prospective adopters in this country and that such matters are now being dealt with thoroughly and professionally.

NHS Trusts

20. Mr. Chisholm : To ask the Secretary of State for Scotland if he will make a statement on the likely timetable for hospital opt-outs in Scotland.

Mr. Allan Stewart : The timing of national health service trust applications is largely a matter for hospitals themselves. For those considering trust status in April 1993 applications will be required by the end of this month. Hospitals interested in becoming trusts in 1994 will be required to make formal declarations of interest by 30 September 1992 and applications by 31 March 1993. This cycle will be repeated annually.

Mr. Chisholm : The Minister seeks to perpetuate the fiction that opt -out hospitals in Scotland arise out of demand from hospitals and local communities. As everybody knows, the policy of opt-out hospitals has been imposed on the people of Scotland, against their wishes, by the Scottish Office. A timetable for that imposition exists within the Scottish Office. Is not it true that most hospitals in Edinburgh, for example, are scheduled to opt out in 1994, including the Western general hospital, which serves my constituency?

Mr. Stewart : On the first point, my reply was the answer to the question that the hon. Gentleman tabled on the Order Paper. It is up to hospital boards to express interest and put in applications. We are not imposing the policy, but we are encouraged by the level of interest that has been expressed around the country since the threat of a Labour Government was so effectively removed by the people of the United Kingdom.

Next Section (Debates)

Home Page