House of Commons Hansard Debates for 13 Jul 1992

DUCHY OF LANCASTER

Global Climate Observation System

27. Dr. Moonie : To ask the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster whether he will enable British representatives to put forward specific expenditure proposals for the new elements of the proposed global climate observation system to the World Meteorological Organisation meeting next year ; and whether they will be met by additions to the science budget.

The Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster (Mr. William Waldegrave) : The joint scientific and technical committee for the global climate observing system has been charged by its international parent bodies with making specific costed proposals. We, like other Government Departments, look forward to considering those detailed proposals and discussing them at the intergovernmental co-ordinating committee planned for next spring.

Dr. Moonie : I thank the right hon. Gentleman for that reply. Will he confirm that he recognises the importance of such international collaboration projects, the need for a commitment forward planning where more than one Government is involved and the need for the money to be found outwith his existing budget?

Mr. Waldegrave : Before answering the hon. Gentleman, I wish to say how unfamiliar it is during questions on science to face an Opposition without the hon. Member for Motherwell, South (Dr. Bray), who has made a great contribution to these matters.

Column 803

We recognise the importance of the issues. The Meteorological Office is a major contributor on world climate issues. Its former director, Sir John Houghton, is the director of the technical group. On the question of money, we shall have to wait until we know what is requested before we can say how we shall finance the proposal.

Market Testing

28. Mr. Sproat : To ask the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster if he will issue a progress report on the moves to contract out and market test central Government services.

Mr. Waldegrave : Our discussions with Departments continue to make progress. As promised in the White Paper "Competing for Quality", I look forward to publishing later this year the targets set by Departments and agencies for testing new areas of activity in the market, to see whether alternative sources give better service and value for money for the customer and the taxpayer.

Mr. Sproat : As the objective of the policy is to improve the quality of public services by the Government buying them in through either the public or the private sector--whichever does it better--will my right hon. Friend make absolutely certain that all Government Departments set the most demanding targets to ensure real competitive benefits?

Mr. Waldegrave : My hon. Friend is right about the policy's objectives. I am glad to say that there appears to be increasing cross- party support for it. In an important speech, Jeremy Beecham--who is a distinguished Labour local authority leader, although he has made other criticisms of the Government--said that the purchase-supplier split has

"caused a re-examination of performance, with general beneficial results."

He is right, which is why central Government will pursue the same policy that has been successfully pursued in local government.

Mr. Flynn : Will the Minister encourage his colleagues to apply the same criteria to spending by the royal family?

Mr. Waldegrave : I do not think that the hon. Gentleman expects a reply to that slightly frivolous question.

Scientific Research

29. Mr. John Marshall : To ask the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster if he will make a statement on the change in Government spending on scientific research since 1979.

The Parliamentary Secretary, Office of Public Service and Science (Mr. Robert Jackson) : The science budget was £324.5 million in 1979-80 and is £1,050 million in 1992-93. That represents an increase of 25 per cent. in real terms since 1979 after making appropriate adjustments for changes in funding responsibilities during the period.

Mr. Marshall : I welcome the fact that the Government spend a greater percentage of gross domestic product on civil research than is spent in Japan or in the United States. Is my right hon. Friend happy that the quality of the research is adequate as well?

Column 804

Mr. Jackson : My hon. Friend draws attention to the important point that we should look at the ouput from the investment in science and technology just as much as we look at the financial and other inputs into it. The academic output of British science--the quality to which my hon. Friend refers--appears to be in good health. During the 1980s, Britain remained second only to the United States in the number of papers published and in the number of citations of those papers.

Citizens Charter

30. Mr. Thurnham : To ask the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster what improvements have taken place in public services as a result of the implementation of the citizens charter.

Mr. Waldegrave : I will give the House three recent examples out of many. Comparative tables of school performance will be published for the first time this autumn. Guaranteed admission times for hip and knee replacements and cataract operations will be reduced to 18 months from 1 April 1993. British Rail is publishing monthly performance figures--line by line--for the first time.

Mr. Thurnham : Will my right hon. Friend confirm that the patients charter is working well in Bolton where the health authority succeeded in abolishing the two-year waiting list before the charter deadline? Is not today's announcement of a trust status application from Bolton general hospital further good news for patients in Bolton?

Mr. Waldegrave : It is good news. Bolton health authority has had a good record of achieving its charter standards. It beat the target of having no waiting for more than two years by some months and it has in place the named nurse system for patient care. I confirm what my hon. Friend says. The seeking of trust status will help to carry that further forward.

Mr. Matthew Taylor : Will the Minister comment on the fact that parents are increasingly finding it difficult to find dentists who are prepared to take children on to their books, not only because of the fees situation but generally as a result of payment methods? That is especially so when children have particular problems with their teeth, given that the payments bear no relationship to the treatment needed. Will the right hon. Gentleman intervene with his colleagues at the Department of Health to see whether there is a way to sort out that problem?

Mr. Waldegrave : I think that the hon. Gentleman is wrong. The new dental contracts for the first time specifically removed the incentive to do more filling and were concerned with the whole dental care of the patient. My right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Health and hon. Members of all parties are well aware of the background to the dispute. I imagine that no one wants a completely open-ended commitment regardless of the recommendations of the Doctors and Dentists Remuneration Review Body.

Mr. Nigel Evans : Will my right hon. Friend confirm that the patients charter is to be extended to general practitioners and that that will lead to an improvement in the health service on offer to patients, which patients will welcome?

Column 805

Mr. Waldegrave : My hon. Friend is right. It is the objective of my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Health to carry the charter principles forward into primary care, which is very sensible. The great majority of contacts between patients and the national health service take place in the primary care format. I know that many GPs--the committee of general practitioners--have welcomed those steps and the offer of discussion with my right hon. Friend.

Dr. Marek : It is important for the charter that any moves to contract out and market test central Government services are open to public scrutiny and it is especially important that the Comptroller and Auditor General should have complete access to examine any value-for-money proposals that the Government have. Does the Chancellor agree?

Mr. Waldegrave : I am aware of the suggestion made by some of the civil service unions for an umpire of the level playing field in this matter. The Comptroller and Auditor General has access to the accounts after the event and, if any contracting out did not show good value for money, he would doubtless have something to say about it.

Research and Development

31. Mr. Simon Coombs : To ask the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster if he will make a statement on the level of private sector research and development in Britain.

Mr. Waldegrave : The latest information is that the level of private sector research and development was some £8.1 billion in the United Kingdom in 1990, up about 13 per cent. in real terms since 1985.

Mr. Coombs : Is my right hon. Friend aware that the independent scoreboard of research and development data, which is so often quoted by the Opposition, has recorded an increase in business research and development for 1990-91? Is that not an excellent record of performance, bearing in mind the difficult economic circumstances of the past two years?

Mr. Waldegrave : My hon. Friend is right. It was an encouraging indicator that, despite the first year of recession, private sector firms have not cut research, if we are to believe the independent scoreboard. I hope that that shows that there has been an underlying sea change in the attitude of our industrial firms to the importance of R and D for the long term.

Dr. Bray : Does the Minister agree that, when comparing like with like among those firms--apart from the pharmaceutical industry--there is a major lag between spending by British companies and that of their industrial competitors overseas? Does the Minister see any chance of closing that gap if we fail to provide the incentives to firms to increase their industrial research and development that are provided in other countries, particularly the United States?

Mr. Waldegrave : As the hon. Gentleman knows, the picture is mixed. Some of the leading firms in Britain do better than their counterparts. For example, GEC at 7.2 per cent. is lower than Siemens at 10.8 per cent., but higher than Philips at 6.8 per cent. As one would expect, the percentage for Glaxo is very high. It is not a universal

Column 806

picture. However, it is encouraging that British firms have been increasing their position and, to some extent, catching up with their rivals abroad, as they need to do.

Mr. Dykes : Is my right hon. Friend now confident that the United Kingdom is getting its fair share of the very sizeable research contracts in the EEC system, particularly, for example, in high definition television?

Mr. Waldegrave : We get almost our just return from the EC expenditure on research and development--and perhaps a little bit better than that. It will be one of our objectives during our presidency to ensure that the quality of assessment and management of that increasingly large programme is improved further. It is very important, and of increasing importance, particularly in the near-to-industry area of research in this country.

32. Mr. Barnes : To ask the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster what initiatives he proposes to take to encourage a switch from military to civilian research and development ; and if he will make a statement.

Mr. Robert Jackson : The defence research and development programme is directed to the future equipment needs of the armed forces. The interface between military and civil R and D is an issue in which I shall take a close interest--for example, in the context of the Government's White Paper on science and technology.

Mr. Barnes : Does the Minister accept that Britain's high level of investment in military rather than civilian research and development means that this country has often lacked a competitive edge? Will he have a word with the Secretary of State for Defence to ensure that major defence establishments such as Farnborough begin to move into civilian research and development, away from military research and development, to give us that competitive edge?

Mr. Jackson : The hon. Gentleman should not overlook the substantial contribution made by the defence industries, for example, to the balance of payments. Those firms make an important contribution to the economy. With regard to the hon. Gentleman's point about Farnborough and other institutions within the Ministry of Defence research framework, the establishment of the Defence Research Agency has provided an opportunity to review the position and we will consider it again in the White Paper. The DRA will be able to consider the possibilities for diversification in the way suggested by the hon. Gentleman.

Mr. Jacques Arnold : Does not the Defence Research Agency already carry out work for non-governmental customers? Is not there much scope in that regard?

Mr. Jackson : My hon. Friend is absolutely right. The DRA has inherited a wide-ranging and complex set of businesses and there are many sites. It is considering what it has been given and I am sure that it will take advantage of the opportunities such as those to which my hon. Friend referred.

Column 807

Service Standards

33. Mr. Bayley : To ask the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster if he will make it his policy to ensure that none of the service standards specified in the charters published to date are relaxed or withdrawn during the lifetime of this Parliament.

Mr. Robert Jackson : In the 19 follow-up charters published to date, we have, for the first time, clear standards which tell customers the level of service that they can expect. Those standards will be regularly reviewed so that we get a continuous improvement in the quality of public services within a tax bill that the nation can afford.

Mr. Bayley : Does the process of continual review allow the Government to abandon or water down any commitments in the charters that they find difficult to meet? The Library's reference sheet on charters mentions the Department of Employment charter to establish minimum wages and protect them through regulation--a wages inspectorate charter. Will that remain unchanged throughout the lifetime of this Parliament?

Mr. Jackson : The hon. Gentleman asks two questions, one about the review process for charters and their targets and standards, and the other about the policy of the Department of Employment, and that is obviously a matter for it. On the review process for charters, there will be an annual review, if not more frequently, of the targets, standards and performance indicators that have been set for the different branches of the public service under the citizens charter. Government Departments will, of course, be in the lead in their sectors, but the charter unit and the Office of Public Service and Science, which is headed by my right hon. Friend, will obviously play an important part in that.

Mr. Bowis : Will my hon. Friend ensure that he monitors not only national charters but local government charters to ensure that they are not just words but actions that are carried out and that, where they are inadequate, as is often the case, they are strengthened?

Mr. Jackson : In the case of services that are delivered by local authorities, obviously a different attitude to review has to be followed. In short, ultimate responsibility for enforcing the standards that are set in local government charters has to lie with the local electorate. We have to recognise that fact. However, there is a central Government role, which is limited to ensuring, first, that citizens have the information that they need about the performance of local authorities and, secondly, that, wherever possible, citizens and local authorities are able to take advantage of choice between competing providers of services.

Mrs. Mahon : On charters, will the Minister begin to redress the disgraceful exclusion of the homeless from citizens' rights by adopting CHAR's citizens charter for the homeless?

Mr. Jackson : We are obviously very interested in any suggestions for improving and extending the quality and range of our charter effort. I will certainly look at what the hon. Lady has said.

Mr. Congdon : Does my hon. Friend agree that, given the wide differences in the performance of local

Column 808

authorities, the Audit Commission's initiative to have comparative performance indicators for local authorities should enable local authorities to improve the service that they deliver?

Mr. Jackson : My hon. Friend is absolutely right. That is what I meant when I said that one of the roles of central Government can be to ensure that information is available so that citizens can make appropriate judgments about the performance of local authorities. The Audit Commission's initiative is very welcome. It stems from Government legislation, and it will have an important effect on the quality and circumstances of local government services.

Intestacy

35. Mr. Cohen : To ask the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster if he will make a statement about the income and expenditure of the benevolent fund which specifically relates to intestacy proceeds.

Mr. Waldegrave : The Duchy of Lancaster benevolent fund was set up to provide income to be used for charitable and benevolent purposes primarily in the county palatine. The income from the fund is applied to such purposes.

Mr. Cohen : At the previous Duchy of Lancaster questions, the Chancellor told me that all--all--the proceeds from repossessions on intestacy, rather than going to the Chancellor of the Exchequer, went to the benevolent fund. It is in Hansard. He said "all". I ask the right hon. Gentleman to look at that. That does not accord with the duchy's own accounts. After interest, it still amounts to a substantial little earner for the privy purse. The Chancellor may quibble over the figures, but will he seriously look at the issue and stop unjust repossessions in the duchy?

Mr. Waldegrave : I made the matter clear--

Dame Elaine Kellett-Bowman : To me.

Mr. Waldegrave : I made the matter clear to my hon. Friend the Member for Lancaster (Dame E. Kellett-Bowman), who perhaps knows rather more about such matters. I distinctly remember saying that the costs of the magistracy were taken from them--nothing from the bona vacantia payments goes to the privy purse. Eventually, the hon. Gentleman may understand that point.

Dame Elaine Kellett-Bowman : Does my right hon. Friend agree that the envious attitude of Londonders towards the excellent charities in Lancashire which accrue from that ancient custom and law is much to be deplored? Will he ensure that the likes of the hon. Member for Leyton (Mr. Cohen), who do not care two hoots for Lancashire and know little about it, do not plunder the funds, many of which go to my constituency?

Mr. Waldegrave : I take it that the only rational outcome, if there is one, of the questioning of the hon. Member for Leyton (Mr. Cohen) will be that Lancashire will lose the funds and they will go to my right hon. Friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer. That may be what the hon. Gentleman wants, but I cannot believe that it would be popular in the county palatine, where many good causes are financed by the fund. The hon. Gentleman, in

Column 809

his desire to attack the royal family on the matter, still does not understand that none of the moneys go to the privy purse.

Mr. Pike : Will the Minister not accept that there is considerable concern about the affair in the county of Lancashire--both the county palatine and the shire county? Will he undertake to publish in full what the

Column 810

income is and what payments have been made of it so that the people of Lancashire know exactly what is happening with the fund?

Mr. Waldegrave : The concern stems from the fact that hon. Gentlemen, principally the hon. Member for Leyton, have managed so to confuse themselves that they may have confused the hon. Member for Burnley (Mr. Pike), who may like to know that the accounts are placed in the Library every year, where he can read them.

Next Section (Debates)

Home Page