House of Commons Hansard Debates for 30 Oct 1992

Mr. Key : First, I wish the Kidderminster Harriers a successful season. I am sure that they will have it, with the support of my hon. Friend. Will he let me have more detail of this problem, which I will pursue? If he writes to me, I shall be better acquainted with the facts and better able to support him in that difficulty.

Looking to the future, the national lottery will be an important source of funds for sport. Its establishment is a high priority for the new Department. We hope to be in a position to introduce legislation very soon to enable the lottery to be operational by the end of 1994. The detailed policy on allocation between the various good causes is still under discussion but undoubtedly sport will benefit from it. A range of facilities from state-of-the-art stadiums, to support for local projects and clubs will benefit. It is important that sport gears itself to take advantage of the funds that will be available.

It is important that we realise what wonderful facilities we already have in Britain. Of course there are facilities that need repair all over the country, from village cricket huts to stadiums. Nevertheless, we need to remind ourselves that, compared with many nations, we are well provided for. More than 1,100 indoor swimming pools, more than 1,600 sports halls, 490 athletic tracks, 78 ice rinks, 99 dry-ski slopes and 1,900 golf courses are available to the public in Britain.

Mr. Tom Pendry (Stalybridge and Hyde) : Before he leaves the subject of the national lottery, will the Minister comment on a report in this morning's Times headed "Treasury concedes lower tax on lottery"? The report says :

"Tax levied on the national lottery should be less than 20 per cent., the Treasury has conceded. National heritage ministers have won their case."

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Will the Minister comment on whether that is an accurate report?

Mr. Key : I was always brought up to believe that one should never believe everything that one reads in the newspapers. If the hon. Gentleman is right, I shall be absolutely thrilled. However, I have not had time to read The Times this morning. In any event, I cannot comment on that speculation. We shall have to contain ourselves for only a few days longer to find out what tax will be levied on the lottery.

I turn now to the various measures that the Government are taking to promote sporting ethics and tackle abuse in sport. Our worries are not only domestic. There is often an international dimension to be considered. Indeed, on issues such as the fight against drug abuse, the international arena provides the real battleground, if we are to progress towards our goal of drug-free sport.

We are working through the Council of Europe, which has a proven track record in addressing doping and spectator violence and in promoting sports ethics. The recent changes in eastern Europe have posed a new set of challenges, and we shall continue to play our part in ensuring that these are also met.

We have taken the lead in developing the Council of Europe's code of sports ethics. It was launched in Rhodes in May 1992 at the conference of European Ministers with responsibility for sport. The basic principle of the code is that ethical considerations and fair play are integral, not optional, elements of all sports activities. The code focuses on the role that adults and institutions play in promoting the concept of fair play among children. Children have a right to participate in and enjoy sport--but adults have a responsibility to promote fair play and thereby ensure that those rights are respected.

It was significant that I was invited by the Council of Europe at that meeting of Ministers to introduce the debate on the code of sport ethics. People turned to Britain when it came to fair play in sport. The United Kingdom has also played a leading role in the preparation and implementation of the Council of Europe's anti-doping convention, which came into force in 1990, and we continue to encourage countries to ratify it. The convention provides the framework within which Governments, working closely with sports bodies, implement effective anti-doping policies.

The Government signed in 1990 an anti-doping agreement with the Canadian and Australian Governments, which provides for the mutual testing of athletes, both in and out of competition. I am glad to say that Norway has recently signed the agreement. We shall host a major international conference on doping in sport in September 1993, which is likely to involve more than 200 experts from doping authorities, sports bodies, the International Olympic Committee and Governments. That underlines our commitment to promoting international action. We also finance the Sports Council's independent drug-testing programme. Budgeted expenditure in 1992- 93 is £734,000. The programme has received worldwide commendation. It provides for testing to be carried out by trained and independent sampling officers ; the random testing of competitors, both in and out of competition ; and publication of adverse findings and

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action taken by governing bodies of sport. The programme is supplemented by an educational campaign aimed at schools, colleges and sports facilities.

I do not want to underestimate the scientific and medical difficulties and the niceties of defining drugs in sport, but one thing must be absolutely clear : the use of drugs to gain advantage is simply cheating.

The United Kingdom was instrumental in establishing the Council of Europe's convention on spectator violence and misbehaviour at sports events, and under United Kingdom chairmanship its standing committee took the lead internationally to identify a wide range of measures to bring about improvements in crowd control and safety. The Home Department is in the lead in representing the United Kingdom on that committee, but my Department continues to play an active part in its proceedings.

At the European level, we cannot afford to ignore the growing influence of the European Community in sport. Although the Community has no formal competence in sport, there are a number of areas in which sport is affected by Community activity--notably through legislation concerned with the completion of the single market. It is essential that sporting interests are protected within the Community, and we shall play our part to ensure that a constructive dialogue takes place on sports issues.

The Government's commitment to promoting the interests of United Kingdom sports internationally was demonstrated by the support that my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister, other ministerial colleagues and I gave to the British Olympic team in Barcelona. That underlined our backing for the bid to bring the games to Manchester. I am sure that the House would like to join me in congratulating our medal winners and all members of the British Olympic team. The country was impressed, indeed thrilled, by the range of the team's achievements in athletics, swimming, and sports as diverse as archery, boxing, canoeing, cycling, hockey, judo and yachting

Mr. Denham : What about rowing?

Mr. Key : Yes, the hon. Gentleman is right to mention rowing, which was one of the most spectacular of all the Olympic events. The magnificent performances of Chris Boardman, Linford Christie, Sally Gunnell--that was a race that I shall never forget, as I was sitting by the track--the Searle brothers, with Gary Herbert, the coxless rowing pair of Steve Redgrave and Matthew Pinsent, will live with us all for a long time to come. It was a most dramatic and heart-warming spectacle for us all.

I take this opportunity to pay tribute to Sir Arthur Gold, who stood down as the British Olympic Association chairman on Wednesday. He has provided a lifetime service to athletics, the Olympic movement and to sport generally. Of all his many achievements, I single out his personal crusade against doping as having one of the most significant long-term effects on sport. When the doping menace is eventually beaten, much of the credit will rest with Sir Arthur. I cannot let this occasion pass without mentioning Sir Arthur's personal charm and his powers of quiet persuasion. He was a great ambassador for British sport.

Craig Reedie now has the job of preparing the BOA for the challenges of the 21st century, including the staging of

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the Olympic games in this country in the year 2000. All sports organisations must be flexible enough to adapt to changing circumstances and the BOA is no exception. I am sure that Mr. Reedie will ensure that it plays its full role in promoting excellence and ensuring continued British success in the Olympics.

I was delighted to attend the Barcelona games for the physical disabled and blind athletes, and the Madrid games--the first ever paralympics for mentally handicapped athletes. There was a high standard of competition in those games. In the Barcelona games Britain came third in the medal table with 40 gold medals. I do not hide the fact that I was particularly enthusiastic about the paralympics. I was overwhelmed by the standards achieved by our athletes and by the great sense of joy and fulfilment which was evident. If there was a difference between the able-bodied Olympics and the paralympics, it was that every hour of every day was tense, difficult and fraught at the former, while every hour of every day was a show of excellence by the athletes and darn good fun at the paralympics.

Finally, a word about the greatest prize in sport that a country can hope to have, and a prize that the Government are determined that we should win- -the Olympic games, in Manchester. We have given substantial backing to the bid by committing £55 million of Government money. Much of that is being used to begin the process of creating new venues to stage the games in Manchester. Anyone who visits the fine communities around Manchester-- not merely the city, but all the communities that will participate in the Olympic effort--cannot fail to be impressed by the way in which the Olympics have caught the imaginations of the people in the north-west. When members of the International Olympic Committee visit Manchester next year, they will see construction of a velodrome and an indoor arena under way, and considerable progress on the preparation of the site for the main stadium complex. There could be no clearer evidence of the Government's commitment, and the commitment of the British people, to staging the Olympics. We are conscious that, when the bid is successful, it will require investment in human resources as well as physical facilities to ensure that we can maximise the long-term sporting benefits of hosting the games.

Nothing that I saw in Barcelona could not be done better by Manchester, including the weather. Events were rained off in Barcelona, but most of the time we lived in a sort of sweaty bath, which was most unpleasant for many of our athletes. I suspect that it will not be much better in Atlanta. There will either be hotter and more humid conditions out of doors, or events will take place indoors in air-conditioned facilities, and athletes will all get flu within a day or two. In Barcelona, a remarkable number of athletes, from all over the world, told me, "Roll on Manchester."

I said "when" and not "if" we win. We can win with the help of all those involved, including Bob Scott and his team and all the people of Manchester and the north-west. It is important that the country lines up behind Manchester in its bid. It is a bid for Britain, and the legacy will be invaluable. The people of Manchester and the north-west, including Blackpool and all the other communities that make up the north-west, will benefit in terms of sport and of economic regeneration. It will be a boost to the economy, putting the north-west of England

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firmly on the map and at the head of our nation's proud role of great cities. There will be a range of major new facilities, of the highest international standards. We shall all gain from it. I have surveyed the sporting scene at some length, not least due to some helpful interventions from hon. Members on both sides of the House. I shall end on a subject about which I feel passionately. I have touched on the pinnacles of excellence in sport in this country. It is right that the Government and the House should nurture and promote the interests of excellence in British sport. The great British tradition of sport, which makes Britain envied throughout the world, is that it is amateur and local. That access to sport makes the sporting tradition of this country so unique.

I have had limited time to touch on some of the strategically important elements of our sporting life. I am sure that other hon. Members will wish to mention many issues. I should have liked to expand on the subject of children's play, countryside issues, horses in sport, inner cities, playing fields, sport for the disabled, water sports and many more issues. They may have to wait for another day. 10.27 am

Mr. Tom Pendry (Stalybridge and Hyde) : When I was coming into the Chamber one of my colleagues told me, "Don't forget to thank the Minister who's bound to congratulate you on coming to the Dispatch Box." However, the Minister did not do so. Nevertheless, I congratulate him on making his debut in a sports debate.

Mr. Key : Of course the hon. Gentleman has my congratulations. I thought that I recalled distinctly that he had spoken on sport at the Dispatch Box before the summer recess, but we all congratulate him on appearing at the Dispatch Box today and look forward to constructive and detailed discussions because he has great knowledge of sport.

Mr. Pendry : I was not fishing for compliments, but I look forward to working with the Under-Secretary during the short time that he will be in that job. Judging by the problems facing his party these days it could be days rather than months or years. I look forward to sparring with the hon. Gentleman in the interests of sport. Speaking as a former boxer, I can tell him that any punch-ups we have will be healthy and will be conducted under the Queensberry rules.

Mr. Harry Greenway : The hon. Gentleman and the Minister are about the same weight.

Mr. Pendry : I shall come to that.

Having welcomed the Minister and his boss, I should like to speak about the Secretary of State's predecessor who, in his short tenure in his new Department, won much deserved praise, especially from the football world, for his willingness to listen to reasoned arguments and to exercise a laudable degree of flexibility in the light of changing circumstances. In my capacity as chairman of the all-party football committee, I and my fellow officers were recently able to convince him to relax the imposition of all-seater accommodation at our smaller football grounds. We met the Secretary of State and the Minister just a few days ago on a delegation and they also showed a flexible approach to clubs that wish to develop new modern stadiums and

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find themselves frustrated by an inflexible planning straitjacket. My hon. Friend the Member for Southampton, Itchen (Mr. Denham) referred to that. A letter that I was supposed to receive one or two weeks ago did not arrive. I understand that it was in draft form. No doubt the letter to be sent to clubs is helpful.

As the Minister is aware, my views on soccer are well known and documented, and many of my hon. Friends wish to speak about football. I am sure that the Minister will respond positively to them and to the many arguments advanced from time to time by the sports world. We should not blame him for the mess that he has inherited in some areas. I assure him that the Opposition will continue to advance the interests of all our sports men and women in future debates. I am sure that the Minister is not aware that the debate has historical significance. It is not just that it is his debut in a sports debate but that he is the first Conservative Minister to initiate a debate on sport and recreation in Government time. He can take a bow. There have been sports Bills, but there has never been a debate of this kind. It is a pity that it is taking place on a Friday, because many hon. Members who would have liked to take part have constituency engagements. I hope that those who are watching and listening will not think that the attendance reflects the view of the House on sporting matters. Perhaps I should not carp at the fact that the debate is being held on a Friday, because we are grateful for such a debate.

In the past no sports debate was complete without the towering presence of my noble Friend Lord Howell of Aston Manor as we must now refer to him. He will be sadly missed by all sports-loving Members, but at least he is just along the Corridor and I am sure that he will be ready and willing to assist any hon. Member who needs encouragement.

The Minister knows that the Opposition will do all that they can to promote sport and to elevate it in the political pecking order, because the potential opportunities for sport are boundless. For the sake of the people who look to him for a lead on sporting matters the Minister has a duty to grasp those opportunities. We want the Minister and the Secretary of State to fight sport's corner in Government. Despite what the Minister said, they do not have a good sports record on which to build. At the general election the Conservative party hardly mentioned sport, and time after time Conservative Ministers responsible for sport have spoken about how they want a better deal for sport, but time after time their words evaporated into thin air when it came to the crunch.

Many people rightly feel angry about the way in which the Government have recently treated sport. Too often it appears that the Government see sport as a convenient vehicle for planted photo opportunities or public relations, rather than as an important and vital area for investment, support and commitment. That must stop, and I hope that the Minister's optimistic views will not prove to be merely the start of another painful cycle of raising the hopes of our sports men and women and then dashing them. I warn the Minister that if that happens he will find us not as accommodating as we are on this occasion.

The Minister will be aware of the welcome given to the publication prior to the last election of my party's charter for sport. Sport recognised the commitment to securing a better deal for sport that our charter demonstrated and many looked forward with relish to helping to implement our positive proposals.

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To the Minister has fallen the task of implementing the findings of the review of sports policy undertaken by two of his predecessors. I hope that he will do not only that but much more, because the review is more memorable for the issues that it fails to address than what it proposes. However, I reassure the Minister that we agree on the review's broad thrust.

The proposal to reform the national structures of sport, including, as the Minister said, the creation of a United Kingdom sports commission and a separate English sports council is welcome. The Minister said that work towards establishing those bodies is progressing. In that context, I plead with him not to overlook the expertise of those who have fought for many years for voluntary sport. He implied that he did not overlook it. In his nominations for membership of the United Kingdom sports commission he should sympathetically consider the case for appointing a representative from the Central Council of Physical Recreation whose campaigning work on behalf of sport over many years is known and respected by many.

The Minister will understand our desire to press for further information about how he intends to press ahead with that work. What resources will be allocated to the United Kingdom sports commission and to the English sports council? This morning's issue of The Daily Telegraph quoted a figure which was thought to be inappropriate by many of the regional sports directors. There has been much criticism--not least by the Opposition--of the cuts in Sports Council grant. The Minister must assure the House that the total grant aid to the United Kingdom sports commission and the English sports council will be more than the current grant aid to the Sports Council. We want to see some evidence that the reforms that the Minister has outlined will be given enough support to enable them to achieve more than a mere game of musical chairs with the national responsibilities for sport. We want clear evidence of how the reforms will bring benefits to sport. Before he finalises the precise arrangements, membership and responsibilities of the sports commission and the English sports council we expect him to return to the House so that we can examine the proposals and debate them in detail to ensure that they are the best way forward. Thereafter, the Minister must ensure that the House has a regular opportunity for a full debate on the state of sport and recreation. He has taken the first step by initiating this debate, and he and his boss should seek to secure an annual debate on sport--a state of the sporting nation debate as it were--to follow the publication of the annual report of the Sports Council and the United Kingdom sports commission, when it is established. If he fights for such a debate he will get the full backing of the Opposition. In the winding-up speech I hope to hear that the Minister is prepared to join us in arguing for such an annual debate. The Minister nods. I hope that that means he has given that commitment. One reason why such a debate is crucial is the increasing importance of the sports and leisure industry to our economy. A few days ago in a newspaper interview the Secretary of State described his Department's job as dealing with

"the ways people spend their time when they are not working". We understand what he meant by that, but it is worth remembering that the task of looking after the interests of

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sport also includes a responsibility to one of Britain's major employers and thousands of workers. For many people sport is precisely what they do when they are working. The Sports Council estimates that some 476,000 people are employed in the sport and leisure industry. That is about the same as those employed in the paper, printing and publishing industry, and the postal service and telecommunications. Compared with other industries it is, luckily, healthy, but the Minister must be aware that the rapid decline in other industries presents implications for sport.

My hon. Friend the Member for Bolsover (Mr. Skinner) spelt that out clearly. The topical example that he recognised is the fact that 75 football pitches, 60 bowling greens, just under 50 cricket pitches and about 40 tennis courts serving local communities are managed by the Coal Industry Social Welfare Organisation. It currently receives funding from British Coal, but not, it is feared for much longer. The operation may be able to continue as a charitable trust, but not without support. It will not be seen as a weakening of the unanswerable case for coal, which the Government clearly have not grasped, to argue that the Minister must pledge to do all in his power to provide support for that association.

Mr. Skinner : My hon. Friend is absolutely right to raise that matter again and say how many grounds are involved. On previous occasions when some of those grounds were lost to the coal industry, local authorities could use moneys obtained from the Government and their own purse to enable them to take over the grounds. We need an assurance that the pits do not close, but, if they do, that local authorities will be allowed money from central Government revenues to save those magnificent sporting facilities.

Mr. Pendry : My hon. Friend underlines the point and if the Minister wishes to intervene again, my hon. Friend and I would be grateful.

Mr. Key : The East Midlands Council for Sport and Recreation has had discussions with the regional arm of the CISWO, which has expressed concern about the future funding from the Coal Board and whether it will be able to continue to provide sports facilities. I am prepared to give an undertaking that I shall watch carefully to see how those discussions go.

Mr. Pendry : The Minister has a responsibility not just to observe those discussions but to get involved and ensure that those sporting facilities are funded. That is his job and we expect it of him. I was glad to hear the Minister's commitment to introducing a system for the introduction of a national qualification for those employed in the sports industry. That is good news, but he must give a commitment to ensuring that a proper level of long-term funding and support from his Department will be forthcoming so that those qualifications have a secure base and a healthy future.

The hon. Member for Falmouth and Camborne (Mr. Coe), who made his maiden speech only eight days ago, told me that he would have liked to have been here. His comments regarding the importance of sport for promoting health interested me and, no doubt, many other hon. Members. He rightly called attention to the need for an integrated approach to health promotion and the

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promotion of sport and leisure. The hon. Gentlemen will be a great asset to those of us who care for sport, but unfortunately he did not conclude by saying that that deterioration was due to the policies of the Government whom he supports. For example, the recent findings, to which the Minister has already referred, of the Allied Dunbar national fitness survey showed that one third of men and two thirds of women were unable to continue walking at a reasonable pace up a 1 in 20 slope without becoming breathless and having to stop. The survey also showed that more than 48 per cent. of men and 40 per cent. of women are overweight and the numbers have increased from 39 and 32 per cent. respectively since 1980. I shall not say that it has anything to do with the political change of Government, but may I gently suggest that the Minister and I could both do with shedding a few pounds. To show an example, I have only this week embarked on a major fitness drive in the Westminster gym. I hope that he will show equal determination to get a healthy shape and accept my challenge to meet me in the gym.

Mr. Key : It is true that the hon. Gentleman and I are no longer as young, fit or lithe as we once were. Nevertheless, may I warn him and the many hundreds of thousands of rather tubby middle-aged men out there that the most foolish thing they could do is to suddenly take some form of strenuous exercise that will do them nothing but harm. He is right to point out that we need to take gentle exercise appropriate to our age and condition and I entirely endorse that. However, I shall never forget that the fittest man I ever knew died on the squash court when he was 28.

Mr. Pendry : I am not sure whether the Minister will come to the gym with me or not. If he does, I promise that we shall go gently. We can at least see who mounts the most effective self-promotion of good health.

The Minister repeated the Government's commitment to bringing before the House legislation to introduce a national lottery. He must recognise that if the lottery is to succeed, it must be framed in such a way as to maximise the benefits that can undoubtedly accrue to sport. He must also recognise that there remain serious questions to address in arriving at the best possible structure for the lottery. I wonder whether the Minister has had a chance to look at a copy of the excellent report, "A Chance to Prosper", written by Jo MaCrea and published by Charles Barker, Public Affairs. I am sure that he would benefit from reading its contents, as would anyone interested in the lottery debate. Any debate surrounding the lottery must deal with the funding and taxation of sport in its entirety.

The Minister will know from reading our charter for sport that we promise to set up an inquiry into all aspects of sports funding and taxation, betting and sponsorship to ensure that a fairer proportion of the money taken out of sport by the Government goes back into sport. We do so both because we are determined to rectify the fact that, for every £1 that the Government invest in sport, they receive £9 in return and because we want to see a more rational and coherent system for the funding of sport. That is the context within which we shall consider the specific proposals that the Minister brings before the House. We shall want to consider his plans clause by clause, line by

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line, to ensure that the lottery really brings the greatest benefit to all areas of sport, including those currently receiving support from other forms of gambling.

Mr. Peter Kilfoyle (Liverpool, Walton) : My hon. Friend will be aware that the GAH group employed by the Department of National Heritage as consultants on the national lottery reported on 7 October--it is a private departmental report. I hope that, among the aspects studied in that report are the detrimental effects of the proposals for a national lottery on bodies such as the Foundation for Sport and the Arts and the Football Trust, notwithstanding the effects on employment and sport generally.

Mr. Pendry : My hon. Friend has illustrated my point--that we must consider carefully many aspects of any proposal that the Government bring before the House.

The Minister will be aware that the Sports Council would greatly appreciate clarification of the Government's thinking, as set out in the White Paper. In its response to the White Paper, the Sports Council says :

"Accepting for the moment that the Government's argument that a lottery tax will be necessary if its revenues are not to fall, it is unclear how the Government would propose to act in the event of the tax serving to increase its revenues. It could be argued that any extra tax-take accruing from the lottery should be distributed among the good causes, for whose benefit the national lottery will have been set up in the first place".

So the Minister should clarify exactly what the Government's thinking was in that regard when they drafted the White Paper. One of the country's most popular spectators sports is greyhound racing. The greyhound world was delighted when the Chancellor agreed to cut betting duty in the last Budget and said that greyhound racing should receive its share of that cut. Seven months later the bookmakers are still enjoying the fruits of that windfall, but, as I understand it, have yet to pass on any fraction of the revenue to the greyhound racing industry. I have written to the Home Secretary about the matter. Will the Minister use his authority to reinforce my request and ask the Home Secretary to bang heads together to ensure that all sections of the greyhound racing industry, which desperately needs funds, enjoy the fruits of the Treasury's generous gesture? On a wider front, the Minister must realise that a coherent strategy for sport is required, not the piecemeal measures that have been the hallmark of Government policy to date. We achieved a first in our charter for sport when we detailed such a strategy at every level of sport and recreation, from a comprehensive review of national sporting organisations to addressing the importance of sport in the communities and schools serving the needs of

everyone--schoolchildren, their parents and even their grandparents. I should like the Sports Council to resurrect its all-to-play-for scheme for the 50-plus age group. There are literally hundreds of thousands of people in that category who need encouragement. They include the unemployed and those who have been forced to take early retirement, as well as those of normal retirement age. Government policies have resulted in the numbers piling up. The Sports Council and the Central Council of Physical Recreation--in whatever form they take in future--should particularly target such people. Sport and recreation will enrich as well as lengthen their lives.

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I am sure that the Minister will join me in encouraging the Sports Council on its annual report produced this week. It has gone a long way to achieving many of the important objectives that it set itself. I know that there are many other objectives that it would like to have achieved.

I know that other hon. Members wish to raise matters of specific concern, but I have a number of issues on which to press the Minister before I conclude. The Minister must explain what has happened to the consultative letter issued in December 1991 by his predecessor to chief education officers on the selling-off of school playing fields. Many people would argue that, far from being a determined effort to save those vital sporting assets, the letter was little more than a meaningless pre-election public relations exercise to cover up the fact that the Government had still not acted to halt the losses. The Minister must know that that is not good enough. He must tell the House when he intends to publish the responses to that letter and issue the circular calling a halt to the decimation of school fields, which continues to this day.

The CCPR has used Government figures to calculate that every day for the past two years, £100,000 worth of sports fields have been sold for development due to the financial desperation of local councils--a desperation which results from Government policies.

Mr. John Carlisle : While castigating the Government on the basis of their lack of direct intervention in the matter of playing fields--I have some sympathy with that argument--will the hon. Gentleman also castigate local authorities of both political colours, including Labour, that are not helping to save the playing fields? Those authorities' policies are not conducive to the promotion of sport. Such local authorities hide behind the funding arguments rather than considering the needs of the local community. Labour councils are as guilty of that as Conservative.

Mr. Pendry : It is rich for the hon. Gentleman to make such a comment. I do not know of one local authority, Labour or Conservative, that is taking such action willingly. They are forced to do so due to Government policies, and I discount the hon. Gentleman's argument. What sort of sporting future do Government policies guarantee thousands of schoolchildren who turn up for term without those priceless assets?

The Government made a commitment to undertake a survey of facilities for teaching swimming in schools. The Minister said that it was a Government aim. Is it possible to achieve that aim before we receive the results of the survey that I asked the Minister's predecessor to undertake 19 months ago? We are still awaiting the published results of the survey. I am sure that the Minister must now have some idea of whether he can honour his earlier commitment to match Labour's pledge to teach children to swim 25 m by the age of 11. We cannot allow the situation to continue and I look forward to hearing from the Minister about when the results will be published and the commitment met.

The Minister is in a predicament because he has to clear up the messes caused by his predecessors. We cannot blame him for those messes at this early stage in his sporting ministerial career, but I hope that he will address those problems when he replies to the debate.

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Foremost among those problems is the shambles surrounding the wholesale destruction of the arrangements for community use of school sports facilities. As the Minister knows, the arrangements were destroyed by Government legislation. Despite the best efforts of myself, my colleagues and even some Conservative Members in the previous Session, the legislation still stands in need of urgent amendment.

That urgency was highlighted in the recent case involving the Great Barr school in Birmingham. As the Minister knows, more than £1 million was invested in the school sports hall by Birmingham city council for community use before the school decided to opt out. As a result of that decision, those vital sporting resources are to be denied the local community. That denial cannot be allowed to continue. I urge the Minister to do all that he can to halt that scandal.

I offer my co-operation in overcoming the farce if the Minister will sit down with me after the debate and arrange discussions between us so that we can draw up the necessary legislation to save the facilities and thousands like them. If he is not prepared to do that, at the very least he can say today that he is prepared to arrange for the appropriate Minister to receive a deputation from the hon. Member for Birmingham, Hall Green (Mr. Hargreaves and an all-party delegation from the city of Birmingham to discuss the issue. I hope that the Minister will show a willingness to do that at the very least.

In case the Minister is tempted to make a vain effort to extol the supposed virtues of opting out, may I warn schools that if they opt out they will be unable to look to the Government for help to provide sports facilities. I have a copy of a letter dated 28 August this year sent from the Department for Education to the chairmen of the governors of all grant-maintained schools. It tells them frankly to forget any idea of the Government's giving them help to develop sport in their schools. It states :

"schools may feel disadvantaged by not being able to propose projects which they need.

But schools should not incur expenditure in preparing bids which have no chance of success.

Projects in the following areas should not be submitted : swimming pools, sports halls, hard play areas, drama/performing arts facilities".

That is the reality for sport for children in opt-out schools. The Government have betrayed them.

Mr. Anthony Coombs : It is a bit rich for the hon. Gentleman to lecture us on that subject when part of the problem for grant-maintained schools, particularly those in Labour-controlled local education authorities, is that whereas previously they were able to co-operate with local education authorities and use some of their facilities such as swimming pools, now, on purely vindictive and ideological grounds, they are unable to do so. Baverstock school in Birmingham has been deprived of the use of sports pitches, swimming pools and even libraries due to the vindictiveness of Birmingham local education authority.

Mr. Pendry : It is not because the authorities are vindictive, but because they have been deprived of hard cash.

Mr. Anthony Coombs : Will the hon. Gentleman give way?

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Mr. Pendry : No, I am sure that the hon. Gentleman would like to expand his argument and I should like to intervene. He is talking nonsense, and I think that he knows it.

Mr. John Carlisle : Will the hon. Gentleman give way?

Mr. Pendry : No, I shall not as other hon. Members wish to speak. On top of the problems that I have already mentioned, local authorities will face difficult times in the months ahead in sectors of sport and recreation. The leisure departments of council after council have contacted my office to complain about the current capping of the council's budget. As a result, councils that are striving to provide sports facilities are finding their development programmes hampered and cut back through no fault of their own--that answers the argument proposed by the hon. Member for Wyre Forest (Mr. Coombs). Many schools that would normally provide swimming and other sporting activities have found that, without free bus services and the like, they can no longer continue to do so. That is just one example among many, and I hope that, now that the Minister has his feet under the table, he will address the other areas of neglect. I am proud to have been the Minister who introduced mandatory rate relief, at 65 per cent., for sports clubs in Northern Ireland. That policy has done much to benefit and promote grassroots sport in the Province, and I am positive that it would have a similar effect in this country if the Government would grasp it.

Is the Minister aware that, according to figures that I have managed to extract from the Government by way of parliamentary questions, more than 1,000 voluntary sports clubs in England and Wales were denied rate relief last year? Moreover, the situation is worsening, as my hon. Friend the Member for Tooting (Mr. Cox) said. Government rating policy is hitting the very grassroots of sport and thousands of volunteers. The Minister has a duty to stand up for those people and give them a better deal.

Mr. Key : On charitable rate relief, if sports clubs decide to go for charitable status, they are subject to 100 per cent. rate relief. If they decide not to, it is up to the local authority to offer them 75 per cent. rate relief, with only 25 per cent. falling on the local charge payer.

Mr. Pendry : I often wonder whether Ministers live in the real world. At a time when local authorities are trying to get their budgets together, it is just not on to expect them to give such relief. The Minister should not skirt round the fact that we need mandatory rate relief.

If we do not provide that support for sport for our children, local sportsmen and women throughout the country will not be able to shine as brightly as the stars at Barcelona, in whose success the Minister rejoiced. Those of us who were privileged to go to Barcelona and see our athletes perform well--Sally Gunnell, Linford Christie and all those mentioned by the Minister--also recognise the achievements of the host nation, however. Until their games, the Spanish had won only four gold medals in the history of the games. In Barcelona, they won a grand total of 13. That is what can be achieved when a country is fired up to show the world its commitment to sport.

I hope that that lesson was not lost on the Ministers parading there. Five Ministers in all, including the Prime

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Minister, went to Barcelona, and a good deal of flag waving went on--especially in respect of Simon Terry, one of the medal winners to whom the Minister referred. Simon Terry won two bronze medals for Britain in the archery contest--the first medals won in that event in 84 years. Ministers' cheers rang hollow when that young man returned home to discover that, because he was not physically able to sign on for income support, he was denied payment. To this day, despite my numerous attempts to get the Government to compensate him, all that I have received by way of ministerial replies is what I can only describe as a kick in the teeth for an Olympic star. The then Minister for National Heritage, the right hon. and learned Member for Putney (Mr. Mellor) wrote to the Secretary of State for Social Security at my request, but, when I met Simon a couple of days ago, he told me that, to date he had not had a penny.

I hope that the Government's stated commitment to the Manchester Olympic bid will not turn out to be so hollow. Episodes such as that which I have described do not assist those in international sporting circles in believing in our commitment to the Olympic ideal. I believe that the Prime Minister is personally committed to the Manchester Olympic bid--even if he was also once committed to a stable exchange rate, zero inflation and higher interest rates and if 31 of our coal pits were safe a month ago. Government wobbling is something about which I worry, so, 11 days ago, I wrote to the Prime Minister requesting a firm undertaking that, whatever nasties he has planned for the November public expenditure round, the £55 million promised to Manchester for the bid will be honoured in full. So far, I have received only an acknowledgement, but I certainly hope that the reply will be positive, because it is vital not just for sport in Britain but for the hard-hit north-west of England that the hon. Gentleman honours the commitment. Mr. Scott and his hard-working team must not be let down by the Government.

Before leaving the subject of the Olympic games, let me join the Minister in congratulating all those athletes who took part in the paralympic games, who won 40 gold medals out of a possible 128 and gained us third place overall among the nations competing. If we are to maintain those standards of sporting excellence, however, we must be prepared to give more support to the voluntary work of the British Paralympic Association and to all the coaches, administrators and managers who gave up their time to make such a valuable contribution. As a trustee of that association, I have a special reason for asking that.

In wider terms, the British Olympic movement does not do well under this Government. In particular, the British Olympic Association needs the kind of financial assistance given by other countries to their Olympic bodies. The BOA receives nothing, and desperately needs help to alleviate its tax burden. Surely, the Minister must be sympathetic to that.

The Minister has referred to those in sport who betray the Olympic ideal-- those who cheat by taking drugs to enhance their performance. The drug problem in sport is a serious one and we ignore it at our, and at sport's, peril. I hope that the Minister will ensure that we have time to debate that growing problem in the not-too-distant future.

Philip Noel-Baker, who graced the House with his presence for 30 years, was one of our greatest Olympians. I was pleased to be present this week at the unveiling by Sir Arthur Gold of a plaque to commemorate his life. I

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endorse everything that the Minister said about Sir Arthur. Philip was a great man of peace and a great Olympian who, as my Member of Parliament for Derby, South certainly inspired me to take a more active part in sport politics. The unveiling of the plaque, arranged by English Heritage, was not, alas, attended by a Minister from the Department of National Heritage. I am sure that there was a good reason for that, but it was nevertheless unfortunate, and was noted. I know that Philip, a passionate opponent of apartheid in South African sport, would be joining those of us who welcome a return of South African sportsmen and women on the world stage following the changes in that country in the direction of multiracial sport. More than any other action, the sports boycott has begun to bring about the desired changes in that country. There is still a long way to go, however, as was shown by the South African Rugby Football Union's reluctance to move as fast as those in other sports to develop their sport in the black townships and, indeed, to break with their use of the springbok emblem and other symbols of apartheid. I hope that those who do protest will do so peacefully but effectively and that they will be heard both in South Africa and in Britain.

I again thank the Minister for arranging the debate. I hope that he will listen with care to those who take part and will act on some of the positive and constructive points that are made. Those of us who care for sport in Britain must not abandon those who play and those who spectate in their millions. As Philip Noel-Baker once wrote : "Sport is too precious to be expendable by politicians." I can assure the Minister that the Opposition have no intention of allowing that to happen.

Several Hon. Members rose --

Madam Deputy Speaker : Order. Before I call the next hon. Member, let me draw the attention of the House to the fact that a number of hon. Members have expressed a willingness to participate in the debate. Perhaps those who are called early will bear that in mind. 11.7 am

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