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House of Commons
Wednesday 11 November 1992
The House met at half-past Two o'clock
PRAYERS
[Madam Speaker-- in the Chair ]
PRIVATE BUSINESS
Woodgrange Park Cemetery Bill
[Lords]
Order for Second Reading read.
To be read a Second time tomorrow.
Oral Answers to Questions
ENVIRONMENT
Homelessness
1. Mr. Bayley : To ask the Secretary of State for the Environment if he plans to announce any new measures to reduce the number of homeless people sleeping rough this coming winter in towns and cities outside London.
The Secretary of State for the Environment (Mr. Michael Howard) : The Government are providing more than £6 million in grants this year to voluntary organisations throughout England which give direct practical help to homeless people. The primary responsibility for help to people sleeping rough in severe weather rests with local authorities, and the local authority associations have accepted that responsibility in the context of the "Winter Watch" guidelines published recently by Crisis and Shelter.
Mr. Bayley : Will the Secretary of State consider increasing his grants to voluntary bodies? I have just received a copy of the annual report of the Peasholme centre, a York charity which provides a hostel for single homeless people. In the past 12 months, its number of clients in York has increased by 60 per cent. to 445. Of those, three out of five-- some 267 clients--were found to have slept rough at some time in the previous year. The number of young clients aged 24 or under has more than doubled in 12 months, increasing from 60 to 130, of whom 33 are aged 16 and 17.
The figures are increasing sharply, and I urge the Secretary of State to do considerably more than he is doing at present to deal with the plight of single homeless people.
Mr. Howard : According to the census taken on the night of 21 to 22 April 1991, only six people were sleeping rough in York on that night. I believe that the assistance that we are providing is effective, and is helping to provide a solution to the problems, but I shall look with interest at the figures cited by the hon. Gentleman.
Mr. David Nicholson : My right hon. and learned Friend will know that families face housing difficulties not only in the larger towns outside London, but in smaller towns and
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rural areas such as my constituency. Will he and his colleagues continue to press the Treasury--I am sure that they have been doing so--for assistance with the construction of low-cost housing, especially through greater flexibility in the release of capital receipts from council house sales? Such an initiative will not only meet certain social needs but will revive the construction industry, which is greatly in need of revival.Mr. Howard : My hon. Friend has put his points with great force. He knows that what he says is always taken extremely seriously.
Mr. Robert Ainsworth : Is the Secretary of State aware that 5,000 homeless people are now being dealt with by the Cyrenians in Coventry--a 32 per cent. increase over the past two years? Does he realise that the Cyrenians' entire evening service depends on a temporary grant from his Department which is due to run out in March? Will he take the necessary measures to ensure that the service continues beyond that date?
Mr. Howard : First, I pay tribute to voluntary bodies such as the one that the hon. Gentleman mentioned which are doing such admirable work in partnership with my Department. We take our responsibilities very seriously, and I believe that the resources that we provide are being used effectively, but I have noted what the hon. Gentleman said about next year.
Local Government
2. Mr. Deva : To ask the Secretary of State for the Environment what proposals he has for giving local people more say in the structure of local government in their areas.
The Minister for Local Government and Inner Cities (Mr. John Redwood) : I have asked the Local Government Boundary Commission forEngland, which is reviewing the structure in shire England, to pay special attention to the views of local people and where they feel that they belong. The commission will be using a variety of techniques from radio phone-ins through use of the local press and opinion surveys. It will invite a wide range of representation of local opinion.
Mr. Deva : When my hon. Friend announces the commission's decision on Heathrow airport, will he take into account the strongly held views of local people?
Mr. Redwood : I can reassure my hon. Friend. My hon. Friend the Under-Secretary of State and my right hon. and learned Friend the Secretary of State will take into account all the evidence--including local opinion-- relating to that crucial boundary issue in my hon. Friend's constituency.
Mr. Tony Banks : Is the Minister aware that at the time of the abolition of the Greater London council two thirds of Londoners expressed a wish for the retention of a strategic authority in the capital city? A recent opinion poll in the Evening Standard shows that two thirds of Londoners still want a strategic authority. If people's views are to be taken into account, why cannot Londoners' views be taken into account in terms of local government structure?
Mr. Redwood : Londoners do not want extra costs and extra bureaucracy. They remember how bad the GLC was.
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I am amazed that the hon. Gentleman should have the effrontery to suggest that London needs that kind of burden again after the absurdly high expenditure on unnecessary causes which was the hallmark on the GLC. Strategic issues for London are dealt with by the boroughs coming together and by the Cabinet Committee on London which my right hon. and learned Friend the Secretary of State chairs. Of course there is a strategic vision for London : it is co-ordinated by the Government.Mr. Matthew Banks : Can my hon. Friend confirm that following the passage of the Local Government Bill earlier this year my constituents, and those of other hon. Members, will have the opportunity to apply for unitary authority status? Will he encourage my constituents in Southport to take advantage of that excellent piece of legislation and press the Local Government Commission to allow my constituency of Southport to recapture the unitary status that it lost in 1974 so that it may get out of Merseyside and return to Lancashire, where it rightly belongs?
Mr. Redwood : I am aware of my hon. Friend's keen concern about this matter. We have set out the parameters for the review. My hon. Friend knows that the areas specified have been made clear by the Secretary of State and that they will be reviewed in the series set out for the Local Government Boundary Commission. If the commission thinks that there is a big boundary issue or a big council management issue which overruns the boundary and spills into an area not under review, it can put that point to the Secretary of State who, on reflection, could modify his request if he thinks appropriate. My right hon. and learned Friend the Secretary of State has heard my hon. Friend's comments and will give due consideration to them, should recommendations come forward from the Local Government Boundary Commission.
Mr. John Evans : Will the Minister acknowledge that people are as much concerned about the financial structure of local government as about its physical structure? Is he aware that the citizens of St. Helens are appalled at the unjust and corrupt standard spending assessments which effectively rob St. Helens of millions of pounds in rate support grant, which is translated into reduced services and increased council tax demands? Will the Minister agree to meet representatives of St. Helens and the Webber Craig authorities to discuss their standard spending assessments?
Mr. Redwood : The grant allocations and standard spending assessments are based on objective criteria. They take into account how many people and what kind of needs there are in the area. There is a clear method that we set out each year for hon. Members to review. The SSAs are not corrupt. That is a dreadful calumny to cast upon the officials who compiled them and upon Ministers who bring them to the House for debate. In the normal course of business we shall, of course, consider representations when the time arises.
Mr. Dunn : Will my hon. Friend please give an absolute guarantee that the integrity of the present boundaries of the county of Kent will be maintained at all costs and against all odds and that there is no question at all of part of my constituency being hived off into the former Greater London council area?
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Mr. Redwood : I can give no absolute guarantees, but my right hon. and learned Friend the Secretary of State is also a Member of Parliament for a Kent constituency and I am sure that he is a keen defender of Kent as a county. However, the issues will be reviewed in the usual way. The Local Government Commission only has power to recommend changes in boundaries between the areas that it is reviewing. My hon. Friend may take considerable comfort from that.
Darwin Initiative
3. Mr. Dalyell : To ask the Secretary of State for the Environment if he will make a statement on his official visit to the royal botanic gardens in Edinburgh to discuss the Darwin initiative.
Mr. Howard : I visited the royal botanic gardens in Edinburgh on 18 September at the invitation of Professor Ingram, the Regis Keeper, to look at the excellent and very important research work being carried out particularly in plant systematics, biodiversity and conservation. I visited the living collections, the herbarium collections and the library collections and saw evidence of the extensive scientific and educational programmes undertaken there. I was extremely impressed by the valuable work being carried out there.
Mr. Dalyell : But how much new money will there be for Darwin?
Mr. Howard : I am sure that the hon. Gentleman looks forward with the same pleasurable anticipation as I do to my right hon. Friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer's autumn statement tomorrow.
Mr. Mark Robinson : Does my right hon. and learned Friend agree that the Wildlife and Countryside (Amendment) Act 1991 is already making a contribution to areas covered by the Darwin initiative?
Mr. Howard : My hon. Friend is right. We make a distinguished contribution to the cause of biodiversity, but the Darwin initiative will mark a new stage in our contribution to that cause. I look forward to being able to make announcements before too long which will take the initiative forward.
Rio Agreement
4. Dr. Twinn : To ask the Secretary of State for the Environment what he intends to do consequent upon the Rio agreement and as President of the EC Council of Environment Ministers to improve the implementation of EC law on environmental matters in all member states.
The Minister for the Environment and Countryside (Mr. David Maclean) : The need for more effective enforcement of environmental laws is one of the central themes of our presidency. I am pleased to say that the Commission has now agreed to my right hon. and learned Friend's request to prepare regular reports on implementation for discussion by the Environment Council, starting in December.
Dr. Twinn : Britain has one of the best records of compliance with European environmental laws, but is it not ridiculous for us to be firm and good supporters of the European Community but to allow our partners to put us
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at a disadvantage due to the increased costs of compliance which result from their not keeping the European laws? Will my hon. Friend make it a matter of priority for the Government to use their presidency to ensure compliance by other member states?Mr. Maclean : I assure my hon. Friend that we have an excellent record on compliance, and we are determined to see enforcement evened up throughout the Community.
I am pleased to tell my hon. Friend that only last week in Chester, at the invitation of the British, we had the first meeting of all the environmental inspectorates from around the Community. Excellent progress was made in the network of inspectors. The inspectors have agreed unanimously to maintain and continue the network with a rotating presidency. Even now they are working on measures to ensure even-handed compliance and a high level playing field throughout the whole Community.
Mr. Denham : The Government will have no credibility in their discussions with their European partners if they continue to promote the destruction of the environment through measures such as the M3 motorway through Twyford Down. Are there no limits on how far the Government will sink in the promotion of environmental destruction, including the hiring of a private detective agency, Bray's detective agency of Southampton, to photograph peaceful protesters at Twyford Down? Does the Minister have any limits as to how far the Government will go in destroying the environment and suspending the basic civil liberties of Her Majesty's subjects?
Mr. Maclean : I regret that the hon. Gentleman takes a tone which drags Britain down unfairly. He should concentrate on this country's record of compliance with environmental legislation in the past few years. Since the United Kingdom joined the Community, the European Court of Justice has not delivered one adverse judgment against it on environmental matters. If the hon. Gentleman compares the records of all countries in the Community he will find that 11 judgments have been made against Italy, 10 against Belgium, seven against Germany, five against France, three against the Netherlands, one each against Denmark, Greece, Spain and Luxembourg, and none against Britain. Why does the hon. Gentleman not speak for Britain for a change?
Sir Anthony Durant : Will my right hon. Friend congratulate the National Rivers Authority on its wonderful job of cleaning up the River Thames? The River Thames is now a beautiful river-- [Interruption.] particularly in the Reading area. Will he continue to support the actions of the National Rivers Authority?
Mr. Maclean : I am delighted to support the excellent work that the NRA has carried out in recent years with a continually increasing budget. Last night I was delighted to attend a joint venture with the Countryside Commission which was sponsored by the Financial Times. With considerable funding from my Department, and with the help of the NRA, the Countryside Commission is taking forward a national trail along the side of the Thames. We shall have a national trail of about 200 miles alongside this excellent river. I look forward to walking part of that trail, probably near Reading.
Mr. John D. Taylor : Does the Minister agree that some environmental policies within the United Kingdom have
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an impact on the rest of the European Community while others have no impact? In connection with the latter, does he agree that the European Community should keep its nose out?Mr. Maclean : Of course, some policies need to be implemented at a European or international level. That is essential for many environmental policies. However, national Governments can perfectly adequately implement other policies. The House ought to be aware that the European Council of Ministers has decided that work needs to be carried forward in conjunction with the Commission on the principle of subsidiarity. We are working on the general plans and criteria for applying the principle. It would be wrong to assume that the environment has been singled out for special treatment. It has not. However, there is no reason why certain environmental matters should not be covered by the principle of subsidiarity.
Mr. Robert B. Jones : I welcome the Chester conference, which was an important initiative. Is not one of the keys to implementation on a European scale the establishment of the European Environment Agency? Is it not hypocritical of the French to lecture us on being uncommunautaire while they are using every power at their disposal to block a Community decision on the location of that important establishment, which should of course be in Britain?
Mr. Maclean : Of course, it is terribly important that we get the European Environment Agency up and running. At the last meeting of the Council of Ministers, my right hon. and learned Friend the Secretary of State made strenuous efforts to make progress on the matter. It is unfortunate that some member states could not agree to come to a conclusion on the matter. They considered that other agencies should be included in the package and that agreement could not be reached solely on an environment agency. We shall consider the matter again at our next Council meeting in December, but the British Government are determined that the agency should be up and running as soon as possible in Europe. It is essential if we are to achieve the proper environmental protection and enforcement that we want throughout the Community.
Mr. Simon Hughes : Has the Government's apparent problem with ratifying treaties spread to the Department of the Environment? At the Rio summit in June, our Government were keen that everyone should sign the climate change treaty. Indeed, the Government persuaded reluctant countries such as the United States to do so. The United States has now ratified the treaty. Denmark is about to ratify it. The Department of the Environment says that the treaty will be ratified by the end of the year, but the Treasury says that we shall have to wait for all 150 countries to do so ahead of us. What is the truth? Shall we be last yet again?
Mr. Maclean : That is nonsense. The hon. Gentleman has been Liberal Democrat environment spokesman for some time and he should know better. We made it crystal clear that we considered the ratification of the climate change and biodiversity conventions to be important. We have always made it clear that we hope and intend to complete our ratification by the end of next year. [ Hon. Members :-- "This year."] Important work needs to be carried out in the European Community to achieve
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agreement on a host of measures to make ratification mean something. It is easy to ratify a treaty, but if we do not have all the clauses in place to ensure that we cut our carbon dioxide emissions, there is no point in ratification. We shall ratify the convention on time and take the necessary steps to ensure that we comply with it.Mrs. Gorman : Does my hon. Friend agree that it is important to make haste slowly on implementation of some of the conditions because scientific evidence is constantly emerging which introduces a new aspect on some of this stuff, and especially on carbon dioxide emissions? Many scientists now say that carbon dioxide is a beneficial gas and that the amount in the atmosphere is not a danger and does not cause global warming.
Mr. Maclean : Far be it from me to disagree with my hon. Friend on too many occasions, but I do not accept that we should go very slowly on this. We should proceed sensibly. There is a clear body of scientific evidence that increased carbon dioxide emissions are damaging the atmosphere and the planet on which we live. That is unacceptable. We believe in the precautionary principle. I intend to make progress as quickly as is practicable in the circumstances, and we shall continue to do so.
Mr. Chris Smith : The Minister of State appears to take too lightly Britain's responsibilities to fulfil the commitments that we made both to the European Community and at Rio. Chief among the Rio commitments was the drawing up of a national sustainability plan. Will the Minister tell us whether he stands by that commitment? Will the plan be a forward-looking document, setting out objectives and targets? If so, when will it appear, and how will he go about drawing it up?
Mr. Maclean : First, I am delighted formally to welcome the hon. Gentleman to his new position--although I have already welcomed him in another debate a couple of weeks ago. I tell him--and I may chastise him slightly, as I did last time--that he ought to pay more attention to what we have been doing. We intend to produce our own report to the Sustainable Development Commission. Even now, we are working on its design and we shall consult a range of organisations on what they believe should go into the plan. We shall publish the consultation document shortly, and I hope that the hon. Gentleman will be one of those who respond to it. We want as many ideas as possible--even, no doubt, impractical ones--about what should go into the report. We are working to ensure that in the United Nations the Sustainable Development Commission is as high powered and efficient as possible.
Renovation Grants
5. Mr. Harvey : To ask the Secretary of State for the Environment if he will review the funding arrangements and operating regulations of the mandatory renovation grants system.
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for the Environment (Mr. Tony Baldry) : We continue to keep the grant system under review
Mr. Harvey : Does the Minister accept that the new £50,000 limit which will apply next year will affect only a small number of grants, leaving local authorities such as North Devon having to cough up so much that they will
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not be able to meet their other housing responsibilities? Will the Minister clamp down on professional grant- getters who have more than one house, and will he make the awards discretionary after local authorities have met their targets and budgets?Mr. Baldry : North Devon council was awarded £835,000 this year towards renovation grant spending. We also have a reserve of supplementary credit approvals to help authorities such as North Devon cope with the pressures. I hope to announce the extra allocations shortly.
Sir Michael Neubert : If, as I hope, the Chancellor of the Exchequer decides tomorrow to relax the 25 per cent. limit on local councils' use of receipts from council house sales, may I even at this 11th hour urge that consideration be given to predicating that money for the renovation and refurbishment of property already in council ownership, such as houses, schools and other buildings? That would both provide a boost to the local construction industry and maintain the value of public assets.
Mr. Baldry : My hon. Friend makes his point well, and it has been noted.
Mr. George Howarth : Does the Minister accept that the means testing applied to renovation grants acts as a disincentive, especially for people on low incomes, to carry out much-needed improvements? Does he also accept that relaxing the regulations and allowing people living in appalling conditions to have a full grant to carry out improvements would be a quick way of boosting the construction industry?
Mr. Baldry : The means testing is straightforward. It is designed to ensure that the money goes to those in the greatest need, thus ensuring that the money available is put to the best possible use. I find it difficult to believe that the hon. Gentleman does not understand that.
Mr. Spring : My hon. Friend will agree that the provision of good local services does not necessarily involve high public expenditure. Will he join me and my constituents in congratulating St. Edmundsbury borough council on working so hard to achieve debt-free status?
Mr. Baldry : I am sure that every local authority must seek to spend its resources properly and effectively. The way in which authorities use their money to help with private sector renewal is as important as their other responsibilities.
Mr. Pike : The Minister gave a cautious first answer to the question. Do the Government intend to carry on with the mandatory grant system for dealing with unfit housing? If so, will the Minister guarantee that local authorities will have the full measure of Government support and the financial commitment, including the 25 per cent. currently required from their own resources, which is necessary to enable them to meet the need without having to abandon the rest of their capital programme?
Mr. Baldry : The hon. Gentleman knows that we keep the system continually under review. We had a review earlier this year, as a consequence of which we have now managed to target resources even better at those who have the greatest need. We are also giving extra help to those just above income support levels. We maintain a close
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review of the system. We see the need to maintain a good renewal of private sector stock and we shall continue to carry forward that policy.Opencast Mining
6. Mr. Barry Jones : To ask the Secretary of State for the Environment if he will make a statement on opencast mining.
Mr. Howard : The Under-Secretary of State--my hon. Friend the Member for Banbury (Mr. Baldry)--announced on 15 July the Government's intention to review the current planning guidelines on opencast coal which are contained in minerals planning guidance note 3. That review is under way and revised guidance will be published for consultation in due course.
Mr. Jones : Why should the Government propose 80 million tonnes per annum of opencast coal mining while proposing the closure of 31 deep mines, with the loss of 100,000 jobs? Why should my constituency, especially the township of Buckley, have fairly extensive opencast mining while it is proposed that the Point of Ayr colliery, 10 miles away, will be closed? I warn the right hon. and learned Gentleman that his Government should not plan to destroy more trees, more hedges and more meadows when he could keep open many of our mines and prevent the march towards mass unemployment in the colliery areas.
Mr. Howard : The hon. Gentleman will appreciate that most aspects of his question are matters for my right hon. Friend the President of the Board of Trade. The land use planning aspects of opencast mining are taken into account before permission is given. As I said in my original answer, we are reviewing the planning guidelines.
Mrs. Currie : Is my right hon. and learned Friend aware that opencast mining in my constituency is of tremendous benefit, not only because we can thereby obtain coal at one quarter of the cost of deep-mined coal--which makes it the cheapest mineral available to us in the world--but because we can thereby clear hundreds of acres of derelict land and return it to a use and a purpose that will generate more jobs in future than the pits underneath the ground have ever done?
Mr. Howard : My hon. Friend is entirely right in drawing attention to the environmental advantages that can frequently follow opencast mining. She makes an important point.
Mr. Skinner : Can we be assured from what the Secretary of State said about redrawing minerals planning guidance note 3 that fewer opencast applications will be accepted? Is the Secretary of State aware that the amount of opencast coal has gone up to about 18.5 million tonnes, which is equivalent to the production of 17 to 18 pits? That equates to about 17,000 to 18,000 miners. If the review of the pits is to mean anything, surely opencast production must be severely reduced.
Mr. Howard : I understand the hon. Gentleman's points. My hon. Friend the Minister for Energy has already made it clear that opencast mining is on a downward trend. I cannot anticipate the results of our
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revision of planning policy guidance. We shall take all the land use aspects of opencast mining carefully into account in the review that is under way.Dr. Spink : Is my right hon. and learned Friend aware that Canvey island in my constituency is threatened with coal dust from the transshipment of coal from the proposed jetty? In such a sensitive environment as Canvey island, where we already have problems with oil, with gas storage and with being below sea level, that additional environmental hazard is unacceptable.
Mr. Howard : I am sure that my hon. Friend and many of his constituents have drawn that point to the attention of the local authority which has powers to deal with such matters. I am sure that he will want to pursue it with the local authority.
Ms. Short : Does the Secretary of State agree with the Council for the Protection of Rural England that opencast mining is one of the most environmentally destructive processes carried out in the United Kingdom? Is he aware that, contrary to the impression that he has just given to the House, there has been a doubling of opencast mining in Britain since 1979 and that there are currently many applications from British Coal and from private companies? Will he give an undertaking that the review of planning law will produce more stringent conditions so that opencast mining is not allowed unless it is beneficial to the local community and is not environmentally destructive and unless the site will be restored to a decent condition? If that is not achieved, we will see the loss of our coal industry, the despoliation of our economy and the destruction of our countryside.
Mr. Howard : I congratulate the hon. Lady on her new
responsibilities. I hope that they prove rather more long lasting than her previous responsibilities on the Opposition Front Bench. As for the hon. Lady's three questions, the future course of opencast mining is on a downward trend, as my hon. Friend the Minister for Energy has made clear. The hon. Lady is right to assert that in many cases opencast mining has environmental disadvantages. However, as my hon. Friend the Member for Derbyshire, South (Mrs. Currie) pointed out a moment ago, in many cases it can have environmental advantages. The land use aspects are carefully taken into account in the planning process and the hon. Lady will understand that I cannot anticipate this afternoon the outcome of our review of the planning policy guidance note.
Council Housing (Competitive Tendering)
7. Mr. Evennett : To ask the Secretary of State for the Environment how he proposes to extend compulsory competitive tendering to the management of council housing.
The Minister for Housing and Planning (Sir George Young) : The Government's proposals for extending compulsory competitive tendering to housing management were set out in the consultation paper "Competing for Quality in Housing".
Mr. Evennett : I am grateful to my hon. Friend for his reply. Does he agree that many tenants in London cannot wait to be free of local authority control, particularly in
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areas where there are Labour local authorities whose management of council housing has been so poor? Will my hon. Friend confirm that he will act to prevent local authorities avoiding putting housing management out to tender? Many Conservative Members are very concerned about that issue.Sir George Young : Our view is that local authority tenants are entitled to the best possible service within the available resources. We do not believe that that is happening at the moment. We believe that our proposals for CCT for housing management will enhance and improve the standard of service that many tenants receive and that they have the most to gain from our proposals.
Mr. Raynsford : Will the Minister confirm that, in preparation for the consultation paper to which he referred, the consultants hired by his Department talked to approximately 30 local authorities and 30 private contractors but did not talk to a single tenant or tenants' organisation? Having failed entirely to consult tenants before producing his proposals, will he confirm that the tenants have reacted by rejecting them decisively? Will he guarantee the House that, before taking any further action, he will listen to and heed the views of council tenants?
Sir George Young : The House should know that more than 100 tenants' organisations responded to the consultation document. It is not the case that their views have been overlooked. Many of them look forward to higher standards of management on their estates. For the first time, tenants will have a statutory right to take over the management of their estates. Many of them cannot wait to take over management of their estates from their local authorities.
Mr. Patrick Thompson : Will my hon. Friend reassure the very large number of council tenants in my constituency of Norwich, North, many of whom face serious housing difficulties, that the proposals really are to their advantage? If that is the case, will he condemn those members of the Labour party in Norwich who are issuing leaflets and trying to scare people --as is their usual practice?
Sir George Young : I am disturbed to hear that my hon. Friend's local authority is raising needless anxiety among tenants. We have already invited seven local authorities to pilot the arrangements for us in advance of the legislation. One of the local authorities is Labour controlled. There is considerable enthusiasm among many local authorities to use the new facilities to drive up the standards that they are receiving at present from their work forces. We have tried that in other local authority areas and have secured welcome improvements in quality and welcome reductions in costs. We see no reason why local authority tenants should not benefit from this extension of a principle which is already well established.
Rev. Martin Smyth : Will the boon that has been suggested for council tenants be extended to tenants of housing associations or quangos, such as the Northern Ireland Housing Executive?
Sir George Young : My right hon. and learned Friend the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland will have heard or will quite soon hear that question. I am sure that the hon. Gentleman will have an answer very soon.
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Home Ownership (Flats)
8. Mr. Congdon : To ask the Secretary of State for the Environment what plans he has for improving opportunities for home ownership for those living in flats.
Sir George Young : The Housing and Urban Development Bill will give most long leaseholders in flats either the right to purchase collectively the freehold of their blocks or the right to an extended lease. It will also enable secure tenants to buy their homes on rent-to-mortgage terms.
Mr. Congdon : I welcome the measures on leasehold enfranchisement and the rent-to-mortgage scheme, but will my hon. Friend consider further measures to encourage local authorities that have been very reluctant to do so to sell more flats?
Sir George Young : The Government are anxious to continue to diversify tenure on local authority estates, particularly local authority flats. The rent-to-mortgage scheme, which comes under the Bill to which I referred, will offer a new low-risk route into home ownership with a minimum increase in outgoings. That will be attractive to many people who live in flats. As interest rates come down, the right-to-buy option becomes equally attractive. I hope that we shall be able to make further progress in diversifying tenure on local authority estates.
Council Tax
9. Mr. Leighton : To ask the Secretary of State for the Environment what the total cost will be of transitional relief for the operation of the first year of the council tax in 1993-94.
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for the Environment (Mr. Robin Squire) : It is too early to say. We shall be announcing our proposals for next year's revenue support grant settlement shortly, including details of the proposals for transitional relief.
Mr. Leighton : Bearing in mind the fact that the Secretary of State for the Environment was the Minister who introduced the poll tax, will the introduction of the council tax be as big as fiasco as that or a bigger one?
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