---

Column 67

We welcome the opportunity given by today's debate to make clear our commitment to the promotion of greater owner- occupation, the widening of choice for tenants and an increase in the number of homes available for rent.

Mr. Stephen : Does my hon. Friend agree that there would be no capital receipts from council house sales if Labour and the Liberal Democrats had had their way, because there would have been no council house sales?

Mr. Baldry : My hon. Friend has made a good point : there would be little choice and opportunity in housing if the Opposition had had their way.

Our housing policies are good news for tenants, because they provide an opportunity and choice--

Mr. Pike : I assure the Minister that our position on the public sector borrowing requirement and on capital receipts is quite clear. In view of the Government's expenditure plans--announced last week by the Chancellor of the Exchequer--may I ask why it is all right for them to take into account over the next few years the use of capital receipts gained from the sale of public assets? What will the Government do when they have no more public assets to sell?

Mr. Baldry : The hon. Gentleman has made a brave attempt to rescue his hon. Friend the Member for Leeds, West. His hon. Friend failed earlier today, and the hon. Gentleman has failed now.

As I have said, our housing policies are good news for tenants. They provide more opportunity and more choice. Let me add that the proposed increase contained in next year's rent guidelines is less, in cash terms, than last year's increase. We are revolutionising the management of council housing and flats ; we are giving tenants new rights, such as the right to improve and an improved right to repair ; we are continuing to invest millions of pounds in estate action--and in housing action trusts, which concentrate resources on the worst council estates. I assure my hon. Friend the Member for Colchester, North (Mr. Jenkin) that I will give careful attention to his request for further implementation of the estate action programme in his area. I am sure that his local authority, like every other, will want to take full advantage of the opportunities provided by the capital partnership scheme.

My hon. Friend the Member for Chingford (Mr. Duncan-Smith) has direct experience of tenants' aspirations in his constituency and nearby. He reinforced the welcome given by those tenants for Government initiatives such as the establishment of housing action trusts--initiatives that Labour voted against, campaigned against and would have denied tenants. Only our policies are good news for tenants ; only our policies provide choice.

Mr. George Howarth : Earlier, I asked the Minister a question which he failed to answer. Let me ask it again. If the money that has been targeted at the Housing Corporation with a view to the acquisition of 20,000 properties fails to materialise, will the Minister ensure that the underspend is carried forward into the following two years--from which much of it has been taken?

Mr. Baldry : The hon. Gentleman's speech would have done Cassandra proud. I shall deal with it in a moment.

---

Column 68

Our policies are good news for home owners. Following a further fall in interest rates, the cost of home loans is now at a 20-year low. Barratt Homes has announced a 30-year mortgage rate low of 6.5 per cent. ; the majority of Abbey National mortgage customers will be paying their lowest-ever rate by Christmas ; housing-market experts now expect loans to dip below 6 per cent., especially for first-time buyers. Little wonder that the chief executive of the Halifax building society stated, immediately after the autumn statement, that the 7 per cent. bank base rate was

"very good news for the housing market--it is what we have been calling for".

As my hon. Friend the Member for Plymouth, Sutton (Mr. Streeter) rightly pointed out, building societies should pass on the benefit of interest-rate cuts to home owners in lower mortgage rates as soon as possible. I am glad to say that, when my right hon. Friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer and my right hon. and learned Friend the Secretary of State for the Environment met mortgage lenders this morning, all the mortgage lenders confirmed that they would play a full and constructive part in the initiative for the purchase of empty properties.

The housing market will also be helped by the Chancellor's £750 million package to enable housing associations to buy some 20,000 empty homes, including new homes and repossessed properties. That, in turn, will provide houses for families in great need. The £750 million will benefit the housing market by helping those in housing need, making it easier for some people to move and giving relief to mortgage lenders. The prospect of 20,000 families in housing need being housed sooner rather than later must be good news.

As the chairman of the Housing Corporation, Sir Christopher Benson, has observed, this

"has given the Housing Corporation the opportunity they are seeking--to help the revival of the housing market and to help people in housing need."

Let me tell the hon. Member for Knowsley, North (Mr. Howarth) that building societies are queueing up to start positive negotiations with housing associations, to enable them to meet our target of 20, 000 as soon as possible.

Mr. Simon Hughes : The Minister misrepresented the truth about which of my colleagues were present earlier. Quite apart from that, however, does he accept that he has not delivered the sort of response that people outside expect? First, it may be a token of the Government's commitment that none of the amendment's signatories has been present for any of the debate--including the Secretary of State for the Environment, who is responsible for housing. Secondly, although we accept, along with others outside the House, that welcome measures were announced on Thursday, those measures are nothing in comparison with the scale of the current housing problem ; and that is what the Minister has so far failed to recognise.

Mr. Baldry : The hon. Gentleman has expressed regret about Conservative attendance. He should look first to his own Benches : he will note that a significant number of the motion's sponsors are not present on what is, after all, a Liberal Democrat Supply day, having spent most of the weekend trying to persuade the House authorities to change the topic of the debate to anything other than housing. My hon. Friend the Member for Brecon and Radnor (Mr. Evans) reminded us that the autumn statement provided not just more money for England, but more

---

Column 69

money for Scotland and Wales. Wales is being provided with £38 million to purchase repossessed properties. Yes, we will rise to the challenge presented by rural housing : the capital partnership scheme will give us an opportunity to work together with more rural local authorities, presenting rural housing initiatives and responding to local housing needs.

Let me tell the hon. Member for Cornwall, North (Mr. Tyler) that rural areas have a champion : the Government. Our manifesto commitment to spend nearly £6 billion through the Housing Corporation to provide 153,000 homes over the next few years will be more than that. We now expect the Housing Corporation to provide some 165,000 further homes to rent. Local authorities will be able to use 100 per cent. of capital receipts, obtained between now and 1 December 1993. We anticipate that that will release at least £1 billion for spending on housing.

We have launched the capital partnership scheme to reinforce local authorities' incentives to spend their money on areas such as housing, which will be of lasting benefit to their communities. The scheme will be worth up to £600 million next year. An increase in Housing Corporation spending to well over £2 billion this year, together with further leverage of private finance, is expected to provide some £10.5 billion of public and private spending on new social housing. We are investing in housing, and we are enabling others to do so. The money invested will allow us to tackle rundown council housing ; it will provide new opportunities to help families on local authority waiting lists, and will enable more to be done for the homeless ; and it will help and encourage the construction industry.

We are a Government committed to tackling the problem of homelessness : a Government determined to continue to take action to ensure that no one in our society needs to sleep rough, and determined that every family should have a decent home in which to live. The initiatives that we are implementing, the policies that we have announced and the money that we have made available are good news for families in need of housing, good news for tenants of rundown social housing, good news for the house- building industry and good news for the housing market. I urge my right hon. and hon. Friends to support the amendment.

Question put, That the original words stand part of the Question :--

The House divided : Ayes 55, Noes 187.

Division No. 86] [6.59 pm

AYES

Ainsworth, Robert (Cov'try NE)

Ashdown, Rt Hon Paddy

Ashton, Joe

Barnes, Harry

Bayley, Hugh

Campbell, Menzies (Fife NE)

Corbyn, Jeremy

Cryer, Bob

Cummings, John

Cunningham, Jim (Covy SE)

Dafis, Cynog

Davis, Terry (B'ham, H'dge H'l)

Denham, John

Ewing, Mrs Margaret

Foster, Don (Bath)

Godman, Dr Norman A.

Hall, Mike

Harvey, Nick

Hoey, Kate

Hogg, Norman (Cumbernauld)

Hood, Jimmy

Hughes, Kevin (Doncaster N)

Hughes, Simon (Southwark)

Jackson, Helen (Shef'ld, H)

Johnston, Sir Russell

Jones, Barry (Alyn and D'side)

Jones, Ieuan Wyn (Ynys Mo n)

Jones, Nigel (Cheltenham)

Kennedy, Charles (Ross,C&S)

Kilfoyle, Peter

Llwyd, Elfyn

Lynne, Ms Liz

Macdonald, Calum

McFall, John

Madden, Max

Marshall, Jim (Leicester, S)

Michie, Mrs Ray (Argyll Bute)

Morris, Estelle (B'ham Yardley)

---

Column 70

O'Brien, Michael (N W'kshire)

Olner, William

Purchase, Ken

Raynsford, Nick

Rooker, Jeff

Short, Clare

Skinner, Dennis

Spearing, Nigel

Steel, Rt Hon Sir David

Taylor, Matthew (Truro)

Tyler, Paul

Wallace, James

Wardell, Gareth (Gower)

Wareing, Robert N

Wicks, Malcolm

Wigley, Dafydd

Winnick, David

Tellers for the Ayes :

Mr. Archy Kirkwood and

Mr. Alex Carlile.

NOES

Alexander, Richard

Amess, David

Ancram, Michael

Arbuthnot, James

Arnold, Jacques (Gravesham)

Arnold, Sir Thomas (Hazel Grv)

Ashby, David

Atkinson, David (Bour'mouth E)

Atkinson, Peter (Hexham)

Baker, Rt Hon K. (Mole Valley)

Baker, Nicholas (Dorset North)

Baldry, Tony

Banks, Matthew (Southport)

Bates, Michael

Bendall, Vivian

Beresford, Sir Paul

Blackburn, Dr John G.

Bonsor, Sir Nicholas

Booth, Hartley

Boswell, Tim

Bottomley, Peter (Eltham)

Bottomley, Rt Hon Virginia

Bowis, John

Brandreth, Gyles

Brazier, Julian

Bright, Graham

Brooke, Rt Hon Peter

Brown, M. (Brigg & Cl'thorpes)

Browning, Mrs. Angela

Bruce, Ian (S Dorset)

Burns, Simon

Burt, Alistair

Carlisle, Kenneth (Lincoln)

Carrington, Matthew

Chaplin, Mrs Judith

Chapman, Sydney

Clappison, James

Clark, Dr Michael (Rochford)

Clarke, Rt Hon Kenneth (Ruclif)

Clifton-Brown, Geoffrey

Colvin, Michael

Congdon, David

Conway, Derek

Coombs, Anthony (Wyre For'st)

Coombs, Simon (Swindon)

Cope, Rt Hon Sir John

Cormack, Patrick

Cran, James

Currie, Mrs Edwina (S D'by'ire)

Davies, Quentin (Stamford)

Davis, David (Boothferry)

Day, Stephen

Deva, Nirj Joseph

Devlin, Tim

Douglas-Hamilton, Lord James

Dover, Den

Duncan, Alan

Duncan-Smith, Iain

Dykes, Hugh

Elletson, Harold

Evans, Jonathan (Brecon)

Evans, Nigel (Ribble Valley)

Fabricant, Michael

Fairbairn, Sir Nicholas

Fenner, Dame Peggy

Fishburn, Dudley

Forsyth, Michael (Stirling)

Forth, Eric

Fox, Sir Marcus (Shipley)

Freeman, Roger

French, Douglas

Gale, Roger

Gallie, Phil

Gill, Christopher

Gillan, Cheryl

Goodson-Wickes, Dr Charles

Gorman, Mrs Teresa

Gorst, John

Greenway, Harry (Ealing N)

Greenway, John (Ryedale)

Griffiths, Peter (Portsmouth, N)

Grylls, Sir Michael

Hague, William

Hamilton, Rt Hon Archie (Epsom)

Hannam, Sir John

Hargreaves, Andrew

Harris, David

Haselhurst, Alan

Hawkins, Nick

Hawksley, Warren

Heald, Oliver

Heathcoat-Amory, David

Hendry, Charles

Hicks, Robert

Hill, James (Southampton Test)

Hogg, Rt Hon Douglas (G'tham)

Horam, John

Howell, Ralph (North Norfolk)

Hunt, Sir John (Ravensbourne)

Hunter, Andrew

Jenkin, Bernard

Jessel, Toby

Jones, Robert B. (W Hertfdshr)

Kellett-Bowman, Dame Elaine

Kirkhope, Timothy

Knapman, Roger

Knight, Mrs Angela (Erewash)

Knight, Greg (Derby N)

Knight, Dame Jill (Bir'm E'st'n)

Kynoch, George (Kincardine)

Lawrence, Sir Ivan

Legg, Barry

Lester, Jim (Broxtowe)

Lidington, David

Lightbown, David

Lilley, Rt Hon Peter

Lord, Michael

Luff, Peter

MacGregor, Rt Hon John

McLoughlin, Patrick

Madel, David

Maitland, Lady Olga

Mans, Keith

Marshall, Sir Michael (Arundel)

Martin, David (Portsmouth S)

Merchant, Piers

Milligan, Stephen

Mitchell, Andrew (Gedling)

Moate, Roger

Montgomery, Sir Fergus

Nelson, Anthony

Neubert, Sir Michael

Nicholson, David (Taunton)

Norris, Steve

---