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Ms. Abbott : The Minister will be aware of the excellent work done by the housing associations in the London borough of Hackney, particularly through inner-city challenge. Does the Minister accept that the Government's stated policy--that housing associations alone should provide all new housing--cannot hope to meet the extent of the need in inner-city districts? If the Government insist that all new houses must be provided by housing associations, they will consign thousands of my constitutents to homelessness and poor housing conditions. If the Government are serious about housing the people of the inner cities, they must give councils the money to do the job.
Mr. Howard : I am glad that the hon. Lady has recognised the important contribution made by housing associations. It is not only housing associations that provide new houses. If the hon Lady pays careful attention to the state of council housing in her constituency--I am sure that she does--she will see the importance of getting away from solutions that were tried in the past, and failed, and of tackling the problems in a way that fully meets contemporary needs.
Mrs. Currie : Is it not right that social housing can be provided not just out of public funds? I draw to the attention of my right hon. and learned Friend the imaginative schemes brought together by South Derbyshire district council, Toyota and a housing association, in which accommodation which has been built for the Toyota executives and trainers who will be here on a short-term basis will revert to public housing for low-cost rent when Toyota has finished with it.
Mr. Howard : I am grateful to my hon. Friend. I had not heard of that scheme, but I shall study it with great interest. I know that on this, as on so many other issues, my hon. Friend invites the rest of the country to look to South Derbyshire for a lead. I shall see to what extent we can follow that lead in this area.
Mr. Battle : No doubt, next week the Secretary of State will tell local authorities that their housing investment programmes and their permission to borrow to provide will have to be cut. Is it not true that estimates do not vary--that there is consensus among everyone, except the Government, on the need for more than 300,000 more homes to rent in the next three years? However, Government measures, including the recent initiatives for housing associations, are now revealed as providing well below that target. When will the Secretary of State and the Government get to grips with the scale of the housing and homelessness crisis and ensure that there are enough homes to rent? That is what people desperately need.
Mr. Howard : When will the Labour party learn that it is no use one Front-Bench spokesman after another getting up and asking for more and more money to be spent while the shadow Treasury team wanders around the country trying to persuade everyone of how responsible the Labour party is? When the hon. Gentleman has talked
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to the shadow Chief Secretary and received his sanction to call for additional public expenditure, we shall listen to what he says with some seriousness--not before.National Parks (Privatisation)
11. Mr. Steen : To ask the Secretary of State for the Environment what plans he has to privatise the national parks.
Mr. Maclean : We have no plans to do so. National parks are living, working landscapes and most of the land within them is already in private ownership. The continued success of the parks depends on the delicate balance between nature conservation, rural development and sensitive regulation for the benefit of all who live, work in and enjoy the parks.
Mr. Steen : I am delighted with that answer. The last thing I should like my hon. Friend to do is to privatise the national parks. Is he aware, however, that the Duchy of Cornwall is treating the Dartmoor national park committee with contempt and in a cavalier manner? When the Ministry of Defence sought permission to spend £30, 000 of taxpayers' money to fill up the holes in a road which it said it would allow to fall into benign neglect, the Duchy of Cornwall and the MOD, in a covert operation in the constituency of my hon. Friend the Member for Torridge and Devon, West (Miss Nicholson), did not consult the national park committee at all. Will the Secretary of State see to it that the Duchy of Cornwall behaves more openly in future?
Mr. Maclean : I am sorry to hear of that local difficulty. I had understood that the Ministry of Defence notified the national park that it was about to fill in some potholes. In questions about such matters as access to national parks there is always the potential for conflicts of interest which are best resolved at local level. I should like to take this opportunity to congratulate the Ministry of Defence on the way in which it protects wildlife. Some of the best wildlife sites in this country are protected on Ministry of Defence property, and I recommend that colleagues read the booklet "Sanctuary" which shows the tremendous work that the MOD does. If there are brickbats to be thrown, one should throw them, but I also want to applaud the MOD when it does things right--such as nature conservation work.
Mr. Trimble : I greatly welcome the Minister's statement this afternoon about maintaining the national parks and providing independent authorities for them. Given his strong support for national parks, will he have a word with the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland and ask him why there has never been a national park in Northern Ireland?
Mr. Maclean : That is a territory into which I dare not tread. I shall pass on the hon. Gentleman's views to my right hon. and learned Friend the Secretary of State. I merely say that on my visits to Northern Ireland I considered the entire country to be a wonderful national park.
Miss Emma Nicholson : The Okehampton loop road, to which my hon. Friend the Member for South Hams (Mr. Steen) referred, is valued by my constituents. Will my hon. Friend consider direct elections to national park
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committees that include people in the surrounding parishes as well as outside experts? Only by that method will national parks be properly cared for by people who really know about them.Mr. Maclean : There are requirements that a proportion of the members serving on national park committees should come from within the boundaries of the parks. When district and county councils appoint their elected members to the park boards and authorities, I hope that they pay special attention to the need to have local people serving on those bodies. We are committed to new national parks legislation. We are working on it and my hon. Friend may wish to consider the issue of representation when that legislation is considered by the House.
Council Tax
13. Miss Lestor : To ask the Secretary of State for the Environment how his Department's present estimate for the average council tax for a two -adult household in a band D equivalent property differs from the estimate published by his Department in 1991.
Mr. Redwood : The Department of the Environment has never forecast the likely levels of council tax.
Miss Lestor : May I remind the Minister that estimates were made? In 1991, the estimate for band D was £400. In the rate support instruction, it was £494. The Financial Times today suggests that another £50 will be added to that. Is the Minister aware of the consternation that this is causing to lower and middle-income groups, who are worried about the way in which valuations have been determined? Is he aware also that many people think that he should return to the drawing board and start all over again?
Mr. Redwood : Local government does not want us to start again. It wants the local tax that we propose and it wants an independent source of revenue ; we are getting co-operation from many Labour and Liberal councils as a result--it is a pity that we are not getting co-operation from Opposition Members as well. The figures shown for illustration in 1991-92 were based on spending in 1991-92. Opposition Members seem to have forgotten--or they do not want to know--that local councils are spending more this year than last and that they will be spending more next year than this. We are not intending to forecast. There is independence and freedom within local government to decide what to spend and how much tax to impose within the limits set out by my right hon. and learned Friend. We intend to wait and see what councils do and to praise those that set modest taxes and provide high-quality services.
Sir Anthony Durant : When my hon. Friend is considering capping, will he cap Labour-controlled Reading borough council, which seems to have set out to produce the highest rate of council tax of any area in Berkshire?
Mr. Redwood : I can reassure my hon. Friend. If any council exceeds the criteria limits that have been set out following proper consultation, it is likely that my right hon. and learned Friend will have to cap it to defend the
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interests of local taxpayers and to make sure that that council, like most local authorities, delivers good services at a sensible price.Mr. Barnes : Why is there only a threefold difference in payment between the low band of the council tax and the high band? Is that the nearest that the Government could get to the poll tax while pretending that there was a difference between the two taxes?
Mr. Redwood : No. The council tax is a new tax with new principles. It has a strong property element, which Opposition Members have always said they wanted. There must be some limits on the amounts that those in more expensive houses have to pay. That issue was debated in Parliament and our proposals were approved by Parliament.
Housing Corporation
14. Mr. Dickens : To ask the Secretary of State for the Environment how many new houses will be provided by the Housing Corporation over the next three years.
Mr. Baldry : We estimate that as a consequence of the autumn statement of my right hon. Friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer, housing associations will now be able to provide about 170,000 new homes for social renting by April 1995 with funding from the Housing Corporation-- considerably more than the 153,000 promised in our manifesto.
Mr. Dickens : Does my hon. Friend agree that the£630 million of Government money that is going towards housing associations and local government will release about 20,000 social dwellings? Is that not a magnificent effort by the Government, remembering that the Conservative party always adheres to its manifesto promises, whereas the Labour party fails to do so repeatedly?
Mr. Baldry : My hon. Friend makes an excellent point. The housing associations are working well on the programme. The first family to be helped has already moved out of the caravan in which they were living to a home made available through the programme. The housing associations have no doubt that they will be able to deliver 20,000 homes to families in housing need by March next year.
Mr. Litherland : Is the Minister aware that his appalling gall is matched only by the Government's appalling housing record, which has dropped by 50 per cent. since 1979? Does he agree that millions of housing bricks being stockpiled and 500,000 construction workers on the dole are not just economic madness but immoral?
Mr. Baldry : The hon. Gentleman clearly was not present when my right hon. Friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer made his autumn statement. Had he been, he would have heard about the additional funding for the Housing Corporation and the fact that local authorities such as his will be allowed to spend 100 per cent. of the capital receipts that they raise between now and December next year. We estimate that that will bring well over £1 million into new housing investment. I should have thought that he and other Labour Members would be cheering that announcement, not cat-calling.
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Mr. Ian Taylor : Will my hon. Friend bear in mind the fact that the additional money being provided for the Housing Corporation and the ability to spend capital receipts will be welcomed by local authorities in the south-east, where there is a particular need for social housing? Conditions are difficult and the Housing Corporation and housing associations have difficulty meeting local demand. Will my hon. Friend ensure that the schemes are put into practice without disadvantaging local authorities in my area?
Mr. Baldry : We have a determination and an ambition that every family in this country should have a decent home in which to live. Different areas have different housing challenges, but we are determined to meet the housing challenge in Esher as we are to meet it in any other part of the country.
Council Tax
15. Mrs. Anne Campbell : To ask the Secretary of State for the Environment if he will make a statement on the position of students in relation to payment of the council tax.
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for the Environment (Mr. Robin Squire) : Most students will pay no council tax at all. Students halls of residence will be exempt, as will dwellings occupied exclusively by students. A student who lives with non-students will not be counted towards the personal element of the tax. That means that he will not add to the household's bill. For instance, where a student lives with one parent, the dwelling will be treated as having only one resident and a 25 per cent. discount will apply.
Mrs. Campbell : Is the Minister-- [Interruption.]
Madam Speaker : Order. The hon. Lady can hardly be heard. I should be grateful for order in all parts of the House.
Mrs. Campbell : Is the Minister aware of the position of some students in my constituency who share houses in multiple occupation? If one person ceases to be a student, the household will be liable for the full council tax, less the 25 per cent. rebate. If two people cease to be students, the household will be liable for the full council tax. Does the Minister think that that is fair?
Mr. Squire : The short answer is yes. I am genuinely surprised that the hon. Lady, who represents one of our great university cities, has not welcomed the fact that the overwhelming majority of students will not be paying tax in future years. The only way to remove the position that she has highlighted would be to extend exemption for council tax to those who were either in employment or eligible to claim benefit. The Government believe that that would be quite wrong.
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Macclesfield
16. Mr. Nicholas Winterton : To ask the Secretary of State for the Environment what representations he has received from Macclesfield borough council about the housing investment programme allocation and the provision of low-cost housing.
Mr. Baldry : Following the receipt of Macclesfield's housing investment programme strategy and bid for resources for 1993-94 in August, the council made a presentation to me in Macclesfield of its housing plans and proposals on 14 September. Later in September, officials from the Department's north-west regional office and the Housing Corporation met council officers to discuss the details of the strategy and bid. I have also corresponded with the leader of the council on these matters.
Mr. Winterton : Does my hon. Friend accept that the housing department of Macclesfield borough council is extremely well run, that it does an excellent job and that it deserves the Government's support ? Of course, the council is under overall Conservative control--one of the few, if not the only one, in the north-west. Does my hon. Friend further accept that low-cost housing in areas such as Macclesfield is essential if we are to provide the range of housing accommodation that is desperately required ? The problems of a well-off area exacerbate the problems of people on low incomes. Would my hon. Friend pay particular attention to that need in Macclesfield ?
Mr. Baldry : Macclesfield council made a constructive and positive submission in its housing investment programme. Its performance and needs will be well reflected in the amounts made available to it in the coming year's housing investment programme.
Toxic Waste
17. Mr. Sweeney : to ask the Secretary of State for the Environment if he will make it his policy to minimise the international trade in toxic waste ; and if he will make a statement.
Mr. Maclean : Our policy is that all developed countries should dispose of their own waste--the principle of self-sufficiency. This principle is incorporated in the EC waste shipments regulation, which was agreed at Council on 20 October.
Mr. Sweeney : Does my hon. Friend agree that we have a duty to accept waste from developing countries, and what is being done to help developing countries to dispose of their own waste ?
Mr. Maclean : When the Basel convention is ratified and the EC waste shipment regulation takes effect, all developed countries and Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development countries will be able to deal with waste from developing countries and to help them deal with the problem. We are quite adamant, however, that the developed world-- especially Britain--should not take waste from developed countries that can deal with it themselves.
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