| Previous Section | Home Page |
Mr. Rogers : Does my hon. Friend agree that the Secretary of State has been a little disingenuous when talking in terms of the district and county councils working together and coming to an agreement? In fact, he set out to pit one against the other. The suggestion that they would go along together is about as likely as putting two ferrets in a sack and getting them to kiss.
Column 729
Mr. Murphy : My experience of ferrets is very limited, but I am sure that my hon. Friend is right about the general principle. When he opened the debate, the Secretary of State referred to local authority capital spending and said that it was up. That does not apply to the districts. There has been an 18 per cent. reduction in the districts' BCAs. The housing budget is down by 19 per cent. and other approvals by 37 per cent., as my hon. Friend the Member for Blaenau Gwent (Mr. Smith) pointed out.
The urban programme has been cut in Wales, and in England it has disappeared. All those reductions are a result of the fact that the Welsh Office wants extra money for European supplementary credit approvals. They have robbed our districts to pretend that they have additionality rules for our European moneys.
Many of my hon. Friends have mentioned capital receipts, which still need to be used. I know that they have been used for 1993, but we need a commitment today that their use will be extended until 1994 and beyond.
The Council of Welsh Districts also wants at least £200 million of the set-aside receipts in council coffers released during the next three years, because the districts have suffered a reduction of about 60 per cent. in capital money since 1990.
The capital budgets of Colwyn, Torfaen, Cynon Valley, Rhondda and Cardiff have all been substantially reduced. As most of my hon. Friends have said, Welsh county councils have been hit by massive revenue reductions. My hon. Friends the Members for Clwyd, South-West (Mr. Jones), for Delyn (Mr. Hanson), for Bridgend (Mr. Griffiths), for Cardiff, South and Penarth (Mr. Michael) and for Cardiff, Central (Mr. Jones) have all rightly referred to the fact that education--the largest part of local authority spending--has been decimated by the settlements. It is a great irony that I and some of my hon. Friends have spent the past three months in the Education Bill Committee, wasting our time talking about grant-maintained, opted-out schools and the rest of it. That is a supreme irrelevance to the provision of education for the people of Wales.
All that time wasted and all that money squandered, yet discretionary grants in Wales have been cut and cut again. Support for the Welsh language, peripatetic music services, the education psychology service and school building and maintenance systems have all been cut, at a time when people are beginning to understand that it is the provision of education services for young people in Wales that is important and not the pursuit of dogma and doctrine. Social services are also suffering from the county council cuts. For example, Gwent has had to cut its toy library, playground equipment and child abuse publicity. The police have not escaped and there have been cuts in training, vehicle maintenance and operational equipment. In Gwent, my police authority, 13 police stations are threatened with closure. That is happening at a time when vigilante groups roam Wales and crime is on the increase.
All that affects our jobs, as my hon. Friends the Members for Blaenau Gwent and for Caerphilly (Mr. Davies) said, since for every 10,000 jobs lost, £900 million is lost to the taxpayer. To deny job losses, as the Secretary of State and the Minister do, is to live in cloud cuckoo land-- like their belief that the average band D council tax in Wales will be £262. It is more likely to be well over £300, and will range between £270 and £380.
Column 730
Doubtless the Minister will say that he will not hesitate to use his capping powers, but this is the first time that capping criteria have been published for Wales. The former Secretary of State, Lord Walker, and the present Secretary of State have both said, in speech after speech in the House and in Wales, that there was a consensus in Wales between local authorities and the Welsh Office that there was no need for capping criteria to be laid down because, on balance, Welsh local authorities have had a responsible attitude towards spending and have been nothing like the examples given by the hon. Member for Clwyd, North-West (Mr. Richards), who was describing a totally different world. Why is it necessary to sour relations between local government and the Welsh Office by laying down unnecessary capping criteria?The settlement does more than that. It is part of the Government's erosion of Welsh local democracy. Why can quangos get money at the drop of a hat? Contrast that with the impoverishment of our services and the adverse effects on the quality of Welsh life that will undoubtedly flow from the constant underfunding of Welsh local government and from the settlement in particular.
The Government cap our councils, cut off their finances and restrict their powers. At least we know that, despite that, our Welsh local authorities will continue to provide services to the people who elect them. They will protect those people from the dogmatic excesses of the Government and they still remain the best hope for effective and representative democracy in Wales. I urge the House to vote against the motion.
6.49 pm
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Wales (Mr. Gwilym Jones) : I rush to acknowledge the only point in the speech of the hon. Member for Caerphilly (Mr. Davies) with which I could agree. I join him in congratulating the Welsh rugby team on its achievement on Saturday--at the very least 10-9 is a statistic on which none of us could disagree. I even welcome his suggestion that we might have further discussion about what happened on Saturday. I am sure that all hon. Members would find that more productive than today's debate.
If I was charitable, I would describe the standard of debate from the Opposition as, at best, wishful and typically negative--no new ideas, the same old sterile debate. The hon. Member for Caerphilly came out with his predictable wish list for spending. Of course he complained about the capping proposals, but it was most significant that, when my hon. Friend the Member for Clwyd, North-West (Mr. Richards) asked him what he would do in the same situation, answer had he not. When my hon. Friend the Member for Brecon and Radnor (Mr. Evans) asked him what he would do about surplus places in schools, answer had he not.
Instead, the hon. Gentleman resorted to a ritual attack on what he chooses to describe as quangos. Such criticism is rich from a party that favours the ultimate quango, a Welsh assembly, which the people of Wales have rejected decisively. It is typical that the Labour party favours the introduction of such an assembly--another socialist, centralist body that would take powers away from local councils. How quickly is the illusion of Bournemouth ripped away. The vain attempts to put a Clinton mask on the face of the Labour party is all as nothing 24 hours later. To put
Column 731
it in a proper, or rather historical, context, Labour Members should be properly identified as the Bourbons of France--they learn nothing, they forget nothing. Little wonder that the editorial in the Western Mail --the national newspaper of Wales--after the general election acknowledged that the present Labour party was unelectable. Despite the impression that some Opposition Members, including the hon. Member for Caerphilly and the hon. and learned Member for Montgomery (Mr. Carlile), seek to give, the economic difficulties we face are not confined to this country. As my hon. Friend the Member for Clwyd, North-West pointed out, economic problems are experienced throughout the world. This is not the occasion, however, for a discourse on the state of the world economy ; the House is well aware of the problems.It would be irresponsible to set a settlement level that the country cannot afford. I find it difficult to reconcile arguments for a higher level of resources in the current circumstances and the concerns I have heard expressed about the possible level of the council tax in Wales. Opposition Members do not appear to appreciate that it is the taxpayer who must foot the bill for public expenditure. Fortunately, the Government appreciate that ; that is why we have had to make the necessary decisions on public spending--decisions that affect central Government, too ; it is not just local government that is having to face up to hard choices. The settlement package that we propose gives local government an increase in resources above the rate of inflation, which continues to decline, before the £37.5 million additional resources that we are providing for care in community are taken into account. It gives local authorities scope to raise a higher proportion of revenue from local taxation. It should also keep council tax bills at reasonable levels.
The settlement provides a sound basis for the introduction of the council tax in April. Despite the gloomy prognostications of Opposition Members, the tax will be welcomed by the people of Wales, who will see it as a fair and balanced system of local taxation. Bills will be based on the valuation band of the property in question. Single-adult households will receive a 25 per cent. discount on their bills, and householders on income support will pay nothing. Those on low incomes will be eligible for council tax benefit. A range of other discounts and exemptions will also be available.
If local authorities budget in line with our plans, the majority of Welsh households will pay less than they did under the community charge, and subsequently less than they did under the old domestic rating system. The prophets of doom underestimate the Government's determination to see the new system work and the high degree of professionalism that local government in Wales will bring to its administration. Local authorities have invested an enormous amount of energy and effort in preparing the new tax. They are ready for 1 April and I commend them on their achievement.
The hon. Member for Clwyd, South-West (Mr. Jones) was naturally concerned about his own country, and he echoed the concern raised by the hon. Members for Alyn and Deeside (Mr. Jones) and for Cardiff, Central (Mr. Jones) about care in the community. The hon. Member for
Column 732
Clwyd, South-West rightly reminded us that Clwyd county council is receiving an additional £6.6 million for care in the community. That is part of a total increase in spending for care in the community which amounts to £35.9 million. That sum is not simply what the Department of Social Security would have spent--around £28 million : we have found an additional £8 million to cover the extra work involved.The distribution of money for care in the community follows the existing patterns relating to Department of Social Security spending, but it also reflects the need to achieve more flexible forms of community care. Exceptionally, we will identify the amounts needed for care in the community in each county in Wales. I want to ensure that the situation is monitored to ensure that our desires are realised.
My hon. Friend the Member for Brecon and Radnor spoke movingly about outdoor centres, 10 of which are in his constituency. [Interruption.]
Madam Deputy Speaker : Order. There are too many private conversations going on.
Mr. Jones : Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker.
I thought that it was significant that my hon. Friend was able to observe that, out of the 10 outdoor centres, only one, owned and operated by South Glamorgan council, is threatened with closure--the other nine, which are owned by English or Welsh councils will continue to operate.
My hon. Friend the Member for Brecon and Radnor, together with the hon. Members for Cardiff, Central and for Cardiff, South and Penarth (Mr. Michael) spoke about the provision of music education in South Glamorgan council. I was especially struck by a letter from one of my constituents, Mr. Andrew Swift, to the Western Mail entitled "Silencing the Land of Song", in which he repeatedly asked what other services provided by South Glamorgan council would suffer the same level of cut as that to be imposed on the provision of music education. How can a cut of 90 per cent. in the provision of any service, particularly music education, be justified?
Mr. Michael : Will the Minister give way?
Mr. Jones : I cannot give way to the hon. Gentleman. time is short, thanks to his hon. Friends.
If South Glamorgan council had said that a cut of between 1 and 5 per cent., or even slightly more, was intended, we might have understood, but to try to impose a 90 per cent. cut speaks volumes about the political party that is in control of that council. I should have thought that the hon. Member for Cardiff, South and Penarth would join me in condemning that council when one considers the advances that have been made in Cardiff and the way in which my party made St. David's hall possible. The facilities for the arts in Cardiff have been expanded, but now music provision is being subject to a disgraceful attack, which is a source of great regret to me. South Glamorgan council has until the end of this month to finalise its budget, and I imagine that it will set a budget in the region of £272 million. I hope that the hon. Member for Cardiff, South and Penarth shares my hope that it will listen to all the expressions of opinion about the provision of music education in South Glamorgan. I hope that that council will yet change its mind and reverse the planned 90 per cent. cut.
Column 733
The hon. and learned Member for Montgomery referred to a case concerning Miss J. I am sure that he will understand that I cannot discuss that case now, but if he would care to write to me, I shall certainly pursue it on his behalf. I was drawn by his oratory, which reminded us of his expertise in the courts--after all, he is one of Her Majesty's counsel. How he managed to weave into his argument references to foreplay and quadratic equations was not readily understandable until he told us that an expert in such equations was sitting behind him, the hon. Member for Wrexham (Dr. Marek). I hope that that hon. Gentleman will forgive me, for I had thought that his expertise related to railway timetables.My hon. Friend the Member for Clwyd, North-West reminded us of Labour's deplorable public expenditure record, both past and present. He made a strong case for the many deserving local causes for which he would advocate council funding. I was disturbed by the admittedly alarmist observation by the hon. Member for Cardiff, Central that people would die. I have checked with Welsh Office officials, and have found no such representations that have been made to us, in any such terms, by any council in Wales. I fear that the hon. Gentleman will wish to reflect on his ill-judged comments, and on his sweeping condemnation of everyone involved in Welsh local government. My hon. Friend the Member for Vale of Glamorgan (Mr. Sweeney) was right to remind us that we must get a grip on spending. He pointed out that the most obvious consequence of uncontrolled spending would be the burden of increased job losses--
It being Seven o'clock, Madam Deputy Speaker-- put the Question, pursuant to order [29 January].
The House divided : Ayes 296, Noes 239.
Division No. 142] [7.00 pm
AYES
Adley, Robert
Ainsworth, Peter (East Surrey)
Aitken, Jonathan
Alexander, Richard
Alison, Rt Hon Michael (Selby)
Allason, Rupert (Torbay)
Amess, David
Ancram, Michael
Arnold, Jacques (Gravesham)
Arnold, Sir Thomas (Hazel Grv)
Ashby, David
Aspinwall, Jack
Atkinson, David (Bour'mouth E)
Baker, Rt Hon K. (Mole Valley)
Baker, Nicholas (Dorset North)
Baldry, Tony
Banks, Matthew (Southport)
Banks, Robert (Harrogate)
Bates, Michael
Batiste, Spencer
Bellingham, Henry
Bendall, Vivian
Beresford, Sir Paul
Biffen, Rt Hon John
Body, Sir Richard
Bonsor, Sir Nicholas
Booth, Hartley
Bottomley, Peter (Eltham)
Bottomley, Rt Hon Virginia
Bowden, Andrew
Bowis, John
Boyson, Rt Hon Sir Rhodes
Brandreth, Gyles
Brazier, Julian
Bright, Graham
Brooke, Rt Hon Peter
Brown, M. (Brigg & Cl'thorpes)
Browning, Mrs. Angela
Bruce, Ian (S Dorset)
Burns, Simon
Burt, Alistair
Butler, Peter
Butterfill, John
Carlisle, John (Luton North)
Carlisle, Kenneth (Lincoln)
Carrington, Matthew
Carttiss, Michael
Cash, William
Channon, Rt Hon Paul
Chaplin, Mrs Judith
Churchill, Mr
Clappison, James
Clark, Dr Michael (Rochford)
Clarke, Rt Hon Kenneth (Ruclif)
Clifton-Brown, Geoffrey
Coe, Sebastian
Colvin, Michael
Congdon, David
Conway, Derek
Coombs, Anthony (Wyre For'st)
Coombs, Simon (Swindon)
Cope, Rt Hon Sir John
Couchman, James
Cran, James
Currie, Mrs Edwina (S D'by'ire)
Curry, David (Skipton & Ripon)
Davies, Quentin (Stamford)
Davis, David (Boothferry)
Day, Stephen
Deva, Nirj Joseph
| Next Section
| Home Page |